JAR-FCL IR(H)

[hmb77]

Hi guys,

I'm trying to find out what options are currently availiable for somone in need of an european intsrument rating these days.

I browsed trough the posts here and did a google search, but the hits were few and far between. Are there ANY flight schools at all in Europe who can offer this for the time being?

I would appreciate any info I can get on this. Thanks.

[hmb77]

I sure would appreciate it. If anyone have info with regards to prices etc I would like that too.

[Aesir]

Yes there are plenty of schools that provide helicopter IR training.

But it´s gonna cost you! You can figure about $35.000.- for ab-initio IR. If you already have have FAA IR then there is some reduction but still lot of theory and about 10 hrs training+checkride.

Instrument training in Europe can only be done on IFR certified helicopters like B206 w/scas, AS355 and so on, so instrument training in R-22 or H-300 is no longer available.

[hmb77]

That's what I figured and I didn't even know the 206 was IFR approved. Well, at least that should be a little chaper than the 355. I already have an FAA IR and I'm currently at 2200 hrs TT with a couple of hundred in the 206.

[Aesir]

Yes sure the 206 can be IFR approved. But single engine helicopters can not be used for JAR-OPS 3 work. So it can only be used privately or for training.

Individual JAA countries may apply their own rules!

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

Don't know if they still do, but Bristow used to have a 206 at Norwich they used for IR training/ratings. From that you could save up again then do a multi upgrade (unless JAR has precluded it ?). Steep, but maybe cheaper than doing the whole 9 yards in one go ??

Not a legal expert I'm afraid, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong !!

Cheers,

NEO:ok:

[madman1145]

Hi hmb77;

There are Bristow, who still has a B206 Jetranger special IFR equipped. Their course is fully done on the Jetranger ..
Also the school I attend in Denmark at the moment, Billund AirCenter, has just recieved a B206 Longranger IFR equipped and approved for JAA-SE-IR(H) training. Their course is a combination of R22, SIM and Longranger ..

These two schools prices are fairly similary, Bristow a bit more expensive on the ab-initio course, but UK-CAA acknowledge ICAO IR(H)'s for a reduction in hours ..
The Danish CAA doesn't, each case has to be evaluated, so no guarantee with them ..

The B206 should be the only single engine approved for IFR training in JAA - so no R22/44 or EC120 or other helicopters can be used for the checkride ..

Talking commercial, you can only use a single-engine JAA-IR for upgradring / training ..

There are also CHC, but we are talking IFR training on a Super Puma SIM - better get the big VISA-card with you in that one ..

[Curtis E Carr]

Part 1 of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF lists the rotary schools approved to offer IR(H) training. They are Allan Mann, Bristow, Bond, PAS, Cabair and Helicopter Services.

[EESDL]

Not linked to them but just done my IR through them.
Can highly recommend Bristows for their flexible attitude, pleasant working surroundings and general all-round willingness to help the 'student' - whether they're an ab-initio or a salty(ish) ex-mil type:-)
The added convenience of having set dates for CAA examiner visits was the deciding factor for me.
Thanks again chaps.

[Airflowreversal_1]

As far as I know there are JAA aproved IR courses in UK (all are mentioned above), Denmark (mentioned above) and there are two schools in Sweden. I have attended a IR course in Sweden on a 206L1 and was very satisfied, I had it put on a UK JAR license.

Good to know is that if you are British then Bristow might be a really good course. I know many people who went there and were very happy. But.... I also know that there are several JAA countries that will not regognise there IR training certificate (it does not come on your license untill you do a multi in UK). Know this from personal experience. But again, if you want to stay in UK, or are Bristish it is a really good course.

Besides I can really recommen the Swedish course (Bear flight) and I have heard positive things about the Danish IR course (mentioned above). Both these IR will come on your license and as far as I know, no JAA member state will have any problems with those courses.

Hope this helps you a little bit.

[L'WAAPAM]

Hi

Im doing my IR with Specialist Aviation Services at the moment. They have just got their new Simulator up and running and say that they will be able to do 40hrs of the training in that, so you could save a heap of money. the rest of the training is on AS355.

Cheers,

L'

[Martin1234]

How much is the IR course at Specialist Aviation Services?

[Simon853]

So why is the B206 the only single approved for IR in the JAA? If it's possible for FTOs abroad to do it in IR equipped R22's, then why not in Europe? Any specific reason or just beaurocracy?

Considering IR(H) is type specific, and no-one's likely to ever get to fly an IR equipped 206 in the UK anyway (other than training at Bristows) it seems a bit nonsensical to not approve any other singles.

Si

[Clear 2 Winch]

Completed IR trg with Helicopter services @ High Wycombe last year. Great team, very flexible and accomodating, good links to CAA for exemptions to trg requirements, highly recommended. Good fleet too.

[rotorrookie]

What about Helicopter Adventures in FLorida they are JAA aproved by the UK caa , but don't know if the JAA IR aproved...anyone??

And how is If your doing IR on fixed wing??? You don't have to do it on 737 do you or is it...... stupid f***ing JAA rules

[Martin1234]

The UK CAA doesn't allow you to do a complete JAR IR course in the USA, which is the case for fixed-wingers as well. Helicopter Adventures do not hold any, to the best of my knowledge, authorization to conduct JAR IR training.

You can do some of the training on fixed-wing, see LASORS for details.

[L'WAAPAM]

Hi,

Sorry about the time delay, been away in a parallel universe for a while!!!!

My IR is now complete, YIPPPEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! (PHEW!!)

I completed the shortened QSP IR course and it cost £10,300.

The majority of the cost is the actual aircraft time so ramping up the sim time might not add to much to it, it would probably be worth while speaking to SAS direct to see what they can offer.

They are an excellent bunch and will be happy to help. They do get very busy though so be quick!!

Hope this helps

L'

[EESDL]

Passed the IR early Aug.
Paperwork sent off to Belgrano, nothing heard for a while - paperwork lost along the way!
Second set of paperwork fax'd through mid Aug, have just received my IR ticket 10 Sep.

So, over 5 weeks have past since I took the test and only now am I allowed to practice the privelages!

Compare that to how it was when you took the test, received a 'ticket' that allowed you to use your IR in anger as soon as you could get the Belgrano examiner out of your aircraft!

You have been assessed by CAA examiner, paid your fees and received an official note saying that you'd passed - so why did the rule change so now you have to wait until Belgrano catches up with their paperwork?

Someone please tell me:-(

[Aesir]

So why is the B206 the only single approved for IR in the JAA? If it's possible for FTOs abroad to do it in IR equipped R22's, then why not in Europe? Any specific reason or just beaurocracy?

It is because the Bell 206 is approved for IFR flight in IMC in accordance with the manufactures type certificate when equipped with required equipment.

An R-22 is not and has never been approved for flight in IMC conditions.

Now the JAA does not allow passenger transport flights to be performed in single engine helicopters in accordance with JAR-OPS 3 so this is why a 206 is not generally used for IFR work in Europe.

However the 206 can and is sometimes approved for IFR, by JAA authorities, unlike most other single engine helicopters.

It´s a type certificate thing!

[212man]

EESDL,
you can (though accepted you may not have been able to due to other commitments) turn up a Gatwick, at start of business, and have your rating in an hour. Ok, not as quick as a ticket from the examiner, but still less than 24 hours.

[EESDL]

Like you alluded too, Belgrano's not a convenient place to get too for us Northern folk.
Pathetic situation in reality. Do not see it being a step in the right direction and no plausible reason for the change in admin procedures (for that's all it is) has been forthcoming.

[rotorrookie]

Has anyone here done the IR(H)multi,eng course at Cabair???and would like to share the experience.

[mallardpi]

L'WAAPAM

Please check your PMs.

Thank you

[rotorrookie]

Changes on JAR-IR flight reguirements


Theoretical knowledge examination
8 An applicant shall demonstrate a level of knowledge appropriate to the privileges of an IR(H) in
accordance with the procedures in JAR–FCL Subpart J.
FLYING TRAINING
9 A single-engine IR(H) course shall comprise at least 50 hours instrument time under instruction of which;
[ ]
[(a) up to 20 hours may be instrument ground time in a FNPT I(H) or (A). These 20 hours instruction
time in FNPT I (H) or (A) may be substituted by 20 hours instruction time for IR(H) in an aeroplane,
approved for this course, or
(b) up to 35 hours may be instrument ground time in a helicopter FNPT II/III or FS.
The instrument flight instruction shall include at least 10 hours in an IFR-certificated helicopter.]
10 A multi-engine IR(H) course shall comprise at least 55 hours instrument time under instruction of which;
[ ]
[(a) up to 20 hours may be instrument ground time in a FNPT I (H) or (A). These 20 hours instruction
time in FNPT I (H) or (A) may be substituted by 20 hours instruction time for IR(H) in an aeroplane,
approved for this course, or
(b) up to 40 hours may be instrument ground time in a helicopter FNPT II/III or FS. ]