Childish Behaviour

[apaddyinuk]

Hello all,
Just as a crewmember I would like to get some feedback from passengers about why some people seem to think it is acceptable to act like four year olds on flights.

The other night I was operating back from the US East coast. During the service a male educated business man in his late 30's or early 40's started forcefully pushing and rocking the seat of a young lady in front as she was reclined while he was served his kosher meal. Remember that we had not been out with all the meals yet so she probably didnt even realise he had a meal and required the space. He started shouting at her like a child, I could see it all happen from the other side of the cabin. By the time I got to him and told him to calm down the lady was incrediby upset. He had accused her of hitting him over the head twice which I did not witness but to be honest, I wouldnt blame her! Of course I moved her up to Traveller Plus and had a firm word with the "gentleman" regarding his childish behaviour. I can handle rude passengers and those who try to be abusive to crew but when it comes to this kind of carry on it really muddles me. I advised him that we dont tolerate that kind of behaviour and he should apologise to the lady to which he just said that I should not have upgraded her!!! YAWN! I quickly brought him down a peg or two advising him of our zero tolerance policy and that it is not just restricted to abuse towards airline staff but also our other passengers which was followed by an applause from a number of passengers in the immediate area. He kept quiet for the remainder of the flight!

Anyways, is this really acceptable behaviour? I have noticed a lot of incidents of passengers being rude and unaccomodating to other passengers in recent years. Where I come from we still treat strangers with the attitude of " treat others as you wish to be treated" and I practice this in work also!

[agent x]

I think i have lost count of the number of times I have seen passengers pushing and shoving, call each other names etc as they stood in line waiting to check in. Way back when I was a check in agent there have been a few occasions when I have stood up, told the queues to stop behaving like children, i've even closed my desk and left them to it once or twice! :mad:

[apaddyinuk]

Agent X,
To be honest at the risk of sounding unprofessional, thats exactly what I told this passenger what his behaviour was like! Guess thats the burtal honesty of an irishman coming out of me again!

[TightSlot]

IMHO - The behaviour of passengers is a reflection of the behaviour of society: They are one and the same. Until modern society works out what it regards as acceptable behaviour, these problems will continue in flight.

Rant Mode = OFF

[Engineer]

As CC should you not be an arbiter as opposed to judge?

You stated " treat others as you wish to be treated" and I practice this in work also! yet when dealing with security staff you may have a different view these power trippy idiots with the education of a muppet (actually, the muppets are probably better educated)Is that a zero tolerance policy or maybe an example now a child would act?

[apaddyinuk]

Ah, But engineer,
Thats my opinion...how I treat others in person is completely different! I always start by giving the benefit of the doubt. Im one of the worst people for judging people but fortunately I am capable of keeping my thoughts and feelings to myself in the hope I will be proved wrong, you cant change human nature but I dont however believe it is human nature to be rude to eachother! That incident at security further more strengthens my point that people do not seem to know how to be polite or even tolerant to others, but once the other person creates conflict then I get nasty...my own personal flaw!!!

[agent x]

Put it this way everyone.....civilization ends at the entrance to Departures and thats that!:}

[PAXboy]

Sad to hear this but not surprised. I agree with TightSlot about the changes we see in the high street every day and on public transport. One of the reasons that I rarely use trains is because of the other passengers.

I can only agree to scold the offending pax to the very limit the company will allow. Also, I presume that there is some kind of duty log for CC? Everything entered for later clarification. If needs be ask for witness'.

[eastern wiseguy]

Pack people in like sardines .....you are going to get "territorial" disputes...nothing worse than having someone in front reclining whilst you are trying to get a little space....and before anyone says it ...no I can't afford to move up a class!:( :(

[BOFH]

Whilst in no way condoning the boorish behaviour that everyone's well aware of, eastern wiseguy makes a good point. Even a polite person cannot make eye contact with the person in front, and it's difficult to assess how to request some consideration from a seat back. A (what happens when you stick yourself with a pin) will simply throw a tantrum.

It's unacceptable behaviour, but to be expected. Sorry to tell you this, Paddy, it's becoming the norm than the exception (as is pointed out upthread). Upgrading his fellow passenger won't change his behaviour, but must have been delicious revenge - well spotted.

Reclining seats seem to come up more frequently than alcohol as a flashpoint in this forum. I can't wait for mobile telephones to get the nod. :yuk:

BOFH

[apaddyinuk]

No please BOFH, NOT MOBILE PHONES!!! AGHHHHHHHHHH!!!

But I must admit. I do sympathise with pax in those seats, even I know its too much! I generally dont fly longhaul on holidays as I cant bare being crammed in like that, I can barely stand it on a short flight. At least when Im working a flight Im on my feet all the time and the flight always goes quickly!
But do some of you think It is too much to ask a pax to return their seat during a meal service. I always do and cant say I have had anyone say no!!! Unfortunately this is about the limit that we crew can do in a situation regarding seat recline. However, my airline does have a spot on the Inflight Report forms (we use these to report incidents such as the above and which I made full use of too...and yes I had witnesses...LOTS) which we tick if the incident specifically involved the seat recline!!!

[MarkD]

have had people kick my seatback without preambles rather than ask politely or ask a steward to have me go forward. I'm 6'2" and can't afford W except when BA upgrade me so I like to recline somewhat but I have enough manners to live and let live. What's with these langers?

[Engineer]

If you are that tall may be you should ask for a last row seat at the back of Y class. There you can recline to you hearts content and not disturb any one :ok:

This will also negate the need to ask for an upgrade :O

apaddyinuk
Thats my opinion...how I treat others in person is completely different! maybe an example of the CC plastic smile :\

It is interesting that you state is too much to ask a pax to return their seat during a meal service I always do yet in your first post this was not an option given to the women rather Of course I moved her up to Traveller Plus that must of defused the incident. :confused:

[Fernando_Covas]

To be fair, If you pay for a seat you should be able to recline that seat. Again it comes down to the airline squeezing in as many people as possible. I have worked with pasengers for 25 years but for the last 5 years I have worked in the coperate sector. Reading stories like this proves I made the right move. You should all try it.

[apaddyinuk]

Engineer,
Do you have a problem with my posting or are you just trying to spur an argument because Im not going to entertain it!
Yes the lady had her seat reclined but she did not know he had a tray and we had not asked her to put her seat forward! I personally ask passengers to return their seat upright during meal services, not a unreasonable request! And my plastic smile is very convincing!!! :}

MarkD, How about politely asking the passenger yourself? The crew arent parent figures there to scold passengers...at least not im my airline, we will assist you if you are having problems or if you get nowhere yourself!!!

[Engineer]

This is a discussion forum and all replies are based on what the thread originator writes.

Based on what was written they appears to be inconsistencies in the events.
During the service which would suggest that the meal was being served and this lady had decided not to bring the seat to the vertical and appears to be contrary to one of your belief I personally ask passengers to return their seat upright during meal services, not a unreasonable request yet on approaching the conflict it would appear that you had already sided with one of the parties involvedHe had accused her of hitting him over the head twice which I did not witness but to be honest, I wouldnt blame her! then the icing on the cake was to upgrade the lady which to the other party could appear as condoning violent behaviour. I quickly brought him down a peg or two advising him of our zero tolerance policy and that it is not just restricted to abuse If you deal with children on a day to day basis ones main concern is about development, this also applies when they past a certain age.

May be a bit of double standard was applied to the situation. It is so easy today to dismiss our actions as a result of how others act.

[Jimlad]

As a tall (6,2) chap I tend to book WT+ where possible. If not then I always find that saying politely but firmly to the person behind me that I'll be putting my seat back during the flight, and I hope it doesnt cause to much trouble, usually does the trick.

[BOFH]

Jimlad

Were it that everyone had your consideration. You've made contact and defused things as opposed to thoughtlessly (and suddenly) banging the seat back into the poor bu66er behind.

There is, of course, the knock-on effect where a tall person has to recline his seat because the seat in front is reclined - I expect the CC have some stories to tell.

This saga reminds me of why I eat heartily before I fly and decline all meals. I am first to the WCs (once the first round of drinks is through :p )and there is no fuss (in J or F it's a different matter).

Engineer
6'2" isn't that tall anymore. The last Y rows on some 747s are twin seats and seem to be offered to couples travelling together. Not telling any tales, but there is a 'Club' component to it as well, if you get my drift. Recommended. :ok:

BOFH

[PAXboy]

Staying off topic, the problem with some seats at the back of Y is that they do not recline, particularly on short haul.

For long haul, you are then right by the toilets and the queues of people and noise of the vacuum system is not nice. I am of average height so can sit anywhere but avoid the back row if poss.

[MarkD]

paddy

getting a kick in the back does get things off to a bad start but next time I will try and ignore it and put on my nicest brogue :D :ok:

[apaddyinuk]

Engineer,
Right, ill clarify...
We had just started serving special meals by hand, this is how this gent recieved his meal before anyone else....I witnessed the event from the other side of the cabin as I was delivering another special meal by hand so yes I was in the position to side with the lady, she was asleep when he was offered his meal anyways! NO she did not hit him...This was his nonsensical ravings to try and get support in a losing battle. He obviously reacted in such a way thinking that we would side with him! I know she didnt hit him as I had witnessed the unfolding events from the other side of the cabin and it was a full flight and people sitting both beside the gent and the lady witnessed the entire event. As regards your comment about the Zero Tolerance, thats a company procedure, and has nothing to do with children but adults and adults should know how to behave in public regardless of how important they believe they are. If they act like children then they deserve to be treated as such! As it so happened, the main reason the lady was upgraded was as there were no more seats in traveller and to diffuse the situation any further it was best to move her away, although yes, I will admit, I took great pleasure in doing it, thats perhaps the child in me coming out!

Now I really dont think I need to be clarifying my posting any further, you seem to be the only person without the capabilities to decipher it. I suggest you read the topic including my additions again and actually provide a constructive response instead of trying to catch me out!!!You seem to jump around the actual event as if agreeing with the passenger for his behaviour.

[Middle Seat]

There doesn't seem to be any indication that the guy in front asked the lady to put the seat up. As a tallish traveller, I always say a little prayer as I board...

"Hail Mary, full of grace, please preserve my personal space"

That being tossed up, I'll ask the person in front if they can put the seat up just during meal service (when that exists), but if they're asleep, I can make do. I also tend to warn those behind me that I'm going to recline (I've seen too many laptops jammed recently). I also only recline part way.

I've seen passengers refuse to move their seat up during meal service "Goddammit, I paid for this seat, I'll recline if I want!" I heard one woman say one time. Its amazing how nasty some people can get.

Anyone who throws a fit over space shouldn't be flying in coach.

"Hail Mary, toss me some perks, don't let this plane be full of jerks."

[Engineer]

APIUIf they act like children then they deserve to be treated as such! and thats perhaps the child in me coming out

You expressed yourself well.

[TightSlot]

How about we call it a draw - and move on?

[newswatcher]

tightslot, are you trying to engineer a result?

[TightSlot]

:ok:

[Engineer]

I rest me case me lord tightslot :ok:

With that fitting comment I bow gracefully whilst sleeping in my reclined seat. :E

[PAXboy]

When I am about to recline my seat in Y, I first tip it back about one or two inches to warn the person. Then, after a pause, move it fully back.

I am surprised that people seem to eat their meals with the seat reclined? Better to get closer to the tray, so that if the a/c does a little shimmy at the wrong moment, you are less likely to drop food and drink down your front.

[Rollingthunder]

If folks recline their seats, I don't mind. Make adjustments. If they start eating their meal with their seat reclined, I mind. As they are leaning forward to eat it - I push their seat back forward to the regular position. They never notice.

[apaddyinuk]

Ok, Ill gracefully agree to disagree!!!!!! :}

[WHBM]

In-flight (or in-airport) arguments, refusal to comply with crew instructions, and so-called rage incidents do seem to have mushroomed in recent years. It has of course coincided with the elimination of smoking accommodation and smoking in airports. It would be interesting to know how many of the perpetrators are smokers, who just cannot handle themselves when relieved of their nicotine.

[Flip Flop Flyer]

I think you're on to something, but then again those liable to cause problems would probably do so even if they were allowed to smoke to their hearts content. Some people are just w@nkers, plain and simple.

I generally refrain from drinking alcohol when flying, as that gives me a very strong urge to have a smoke. Since I don't need any more aggro than necessary, I just don't drink. Kind of sucks when you're offered fine wines in J-class, but there you go.