Part time Aero Eng Degrees

[Genghis the Engineer]

Some time ago we had an ongoing discussion about the (lack of) availability of part time study for LAE's or technicians who would like to gain a BEng or MEng and migrate into the more "white collar" end of Engineering (or I suppose pilots who decide they'd like to progress their knowledge). We pretty much came to the conclusion that a few people liked the idea but no University seemed to be offering anything of use, at least in the UK.

I broached this with a friendly University department, and the reaction I got was "what a good idea, why did we never think of that". Disregarding the obvious quote from Douglas Adams, I'm interested, purely for the good of the profession, in talking to them about this and seeing if anything can be generated. (Okay, being self-interested, it'll do my professional cred no harm if anything comes out of it and I'm seen to have been a part of it, but frankly I get p*&^*d off with the them-and-us that prevails in the profession these days.)

So, all you chaps and chapesses out there, I'd be grateful for your opinions about...

(1) If such a thing were available, how interested would you be?
(2) I suspect that minimum entrance would be an HNC - is this low enough or would "foundation courses" be needed as well?
(3) Are you looking at MEng courses towards a CEng, or lower courses towards IEng?
(4) Any other bright ideas?
(5) Any management Engineers out there who think their companies might pay for their people to do such a thing?
(6) Is this Genghis wasting his time down a blind alley?

G

[SchmiteGoBust]

Hi Ghenghis,
Some good points here. I did a B.Sc(hons) full time ages ago. Entry level was with an HTEC. I managed it ,but the maths was a bit of a struggle at first. I went back to licensed engineering because there was more money in it for me. However once you've got a degree nobody can take it away from you and it may always prove useful in the future. It will certainly give me an advantage should I ever decide to return to the so called "white collar" situation.
However I must say I abhor the idea of the divide as it is that you mention. The divide in my experience is usually caused by non engineering people!!!!!

[WenWe]

Don't like the idea of an HNC being reqd.
Call me lazy (or thick) if you like, but the lack of one didn't stop me from progressing into a "Management" position - or back out of it (contract finished) onto the line again.
An on-line course would be the ideal for me, it would give access at work or home without having to cart lots of books around.
Going back to the HNC thingy please ponder: Of those in my Apprentice year (BCAL days) none who took the HNC route have become Licenced Engineers, all are still in the same positions that they finsished their time in - except for one who took a degree & moved into cargo.

[Blacksheep]

WenWe,

The problem with distance learning or "on-line" courses is that they cannot cater for the laboratory work that is an essential part of an engineering degree. That is why I graduated with an Economics (i.e. management oriented) degree. I couldn't afford to stop working in order to study so distance learning (University of London External Programme) was the only option.

The brain-stretching effects of such under-graduate study are beneficial even in those engineering applications in which I still get involved. Nevertheless, I'd welcome any opportunity to study engineering at degree level without having to give up work - so yes Ghengis, I would be interested in an opportunity to study for an engineering degree by part time study. The entry level should simply be the university general entrance requirements. That is, "A" levels, equivalents such as HNC or, in the case of "mature cndidates," individual assessment. Under that last heading I especially believe that a university ought to give due credit to those who have studied in their own time for AME licences. In my own case London University knew nothing about the AME Licence and were therefore unable to give any credit for it. As to the level of study, there ought to be provision for graduates to progress to higher degrees, the University of London External Programme allows study all the way to PhD if that's your goal.

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[Genghis the Engineer]

Keep the comments coming chaps, but it's worth mentioning that the normal entry requirements from school for an aero degree are usually BCC - BBB with Maths and Physics, with an O-level or GCSE Chemistry pass usually being compulsory as well.

A typical syllabus for an aero-eng course is at
http://www.soton.ac.uk/~calendar/sectionVII/part6.html
and general guff and entry requirements at
http://www.city.ac.uk/ugrad/engineering/aeronautical.htm

I agree with Blacksheep that lab work is essential, but even an OU degree in ladies basket weaving mandates a certain amount of "classroom" time. Also these degrees are not for the "lazy", neither is it usually possible to just get everything you need online. When I did mine (full time) I worked about 50hrs per week for 3 years, and ended up acquiring quite a large library, much of which I'm still using.

G

[Paulf]

Good thought Genghis, I had a look around for this a couple of years ago and found nothing, so if you do get something I would be interested in details.Would CAA LWTRs count towards educational requirments? As you may or may not be aware the Engineering Council now will grant LAEs Inc.Eng. status on this basis

[get a bigger hammer]

Please don't get bogged down into thinking "Aero Engineering Degrees".

There are several well constructed degrees which are biased towards engineering within the Open University. Yes they can become a little intense at times and maths is a common concern aired by students. But the course material is so well constructed that even I managed it.

Also the scheme that acredits previous learning may help you bag some of your degree. Higher level HNC/HND units knocked off almost a years work for me.

But most importantly gettin a degree will allow you opportunities outside of aviation as well as in it. Reason enough in its own right.

Try www.open.ac.uk (http://www.open.ac.uk)

[Blacksheep]

Paulf,

That isn't my experience I'm sorry to say. London University didn't and still doesn't give any credit to an AME licence in their admission requirements. They will however examine the whole of a "mature candidate's" background and experience and admit those without formal qualifications on an individual assessment basis.

The RAeS were not prepared to accept me as anything other than a Technician and the Engineering Council classify me as a Technician NOT an Incorporated Engineer. My qualifications include Type Rated multi category licences on B707 and B737 with multi category approvals an B747, B757 and 767. 35 years of experience including time as Hangar foreman I/C 'C' checks on B737s and B757s and several years as a section head. I also have a degree in Economics. Needless to say I haven't joined.

The funny thing is that I know personally of two Fellows of the RAeS who don't even have an HNC between them but are still chartered engineers. The world isn't a fair place is it?

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Through difficulties to the cinema