The life of an airline pilot! Is it worth it?

[Mushrooms]

I made this thread to get the “real deal” on the life of an airline pilot. I want honest answers.

I know for a fact becoming an airline pilot can have many, many benefits. Let’s see, well you get a high salary, you could find yourself spending the night in Paris, you can go places and see places that people have to pay for and sometimes don’t have enough time to see. I know the benefits but I also know some downfalls.

First off I know it’s very expensive to become a pilot….anywhere! Lots of other things like actually getting the job, seeing your family rarely, etc.

Here are some questions I have….

- Is it really a dangerous career?

I know the statistics but what if something goes wrong? What are the chances of an engine failing, because on an airplane if something goes wrong that takes time to fix, you may not have all that time. It’s also hard convincing my parents that I want to become a pilot when it’s usually rated one of the top 10 dangerous careers almost everywhere? How can I convince them it isn’t (if possible)?


- What are the chances of being hired by an airplane and getting that paycheck to live on?

One thing I read almost everywhere is the “getting in” part. What if you don’t get in? Then what? Airlines can’t hire millions of people and I’m guessing tons and tons of qualified people are applying every year, which makes it that much more difficult. I don’t want to be a 38 year old just getting into a company like Delta and wait 12 more years on top of that become a captain at 50. Then I have only a couple years before retirement. Do you really have to have grey hairs before you get to become a captian? If ever?


- The schedule?

It’s always nice to explore the world but without your family it can take a toll. How long do you spend living in the air? How often do you get to see your family.


- Relocation relocation relocation?

Say I live in Toronto and my dream job lives in Orlando, do I have to move. Do airlines really have people relocate everywhere or else they don’t get the job?

These are questions I’m itching to have answered and I want the real deal as I want to make my decision soon. I love flying but I also love a lot of other things, like seeing my family often and not having to live in an unknown city just to put food on the table. Thanks once again……..

[LastCall]

Mushrooms,

If this is for real, then PM me and I'll try to answer your questions.

LC

[Ignition Override]

Mushrooms: If being an airline pilot were one of the ten most dangerous jobs, then why does our life insurance cost no more than that for a college professor?

Many laymen confuse airline flying with military combat aviation, or even bush flying. They often get the impression that a pilot is a pilot. The general media somtimes lumps accidents among the general aviation population, with that of professional pilots, in order to mislead laymen into jumping to false conclusions.

When an engine fails, you do what you are trained to do in simulators. This training takes place at least once a year. In over 14,000 hours of flying, I've been in c0ckp1ts only twice when we shut down an Allison engine do to oil quantity lights in a military transport. The one actual engine failure happened before the jet had rolled more than thirty feet: the high-pressure fuel pump had failed. This was my first in at least 11,000 civilian flying hours. At a higher speed on the runway we abort the takeoff, and if in the air (after V1 speed), we fly the plane and methodically bring it back to a landing, maybe at a nearby different airport which has a longer runway.

To explain everything in a few words can be misleading. Many pilots who have European layovers are very tired the whole time they are there-they stay up most of the night, ride quite a distance to a hotel (i.e. London to Brighton, or Frankfurt to Mainz) and take just a nap before they stumble around canals and bateau mouches, with only 24 hours there. This is a complex subject, as you might realize. If in Asia for a while, it can take three days for the body to feel normal when back home. These reasons are primarily why I chose to never fly international-often working my tail off on short domestic flights (legs). Many questions can be answered, but will be out of context regarding various situations. The worst place to learn about aviation is through the mass media-only one newspaper aviation writer, among all of those whose articles I've ever read, had a private pilot license. The internet can also be misleading or contain garbage.

[Ennie]

Dangerous, not really

Night stops, cool, not many earlies, lots of sightseeing, spending time with lovely girls

Money, awesome

Roster, 60 hours in 5 weeks, work 3-4 days per week

Holiday, 42 days per year annual leave

Staff travel, awesome, Dubai return 115 euro's, Singapore 124 Euro's, business class normally

re location, yes to NL, moving back to UK when Long Haul, 6 years or so

26 years old, I like it, wouldn't go back to my old job!

Depends on what you want, hope you can make a good decision!

[CaptainGSR]

Don't do it for the money! For every millionaire with a great job, there are 1000 guys out there either struggling, underpaid or unemployed. To make a small fortune in aviation you have to spend a big one.

It is a passion more than anything else. It takes many sacrifices.

Being on the road all the time gets very old. Sometimes a 9 to 5 job with weekends and holidays off does not sound so bad. I did not have Christmas or NewYears off for 4 years! (that gets old!)

Timing is everything! I thought i would be in a major 5 years ago too. I did everything right, graduated from college when i turned 21, no accidents, no violations, was a flight instructor then flew for a regional airline. I have been broke my whole life. I am now 29, finally a RJ Captain, for the first time in my life I am getting a new hire engineer paycheck. All my engineers friends have had a house, a few new cars and lots of money in the bank for years. I have none of that yet.

Would I get into another field tomorrow: Hell NO!
Would any of my engineer friends do my job: Hell NO!
Would they like to have my flexible schedule sometimes: Yes!
Would they want my pay for the past 7 years: hell NO!
Would they work New Years eve: hell NO!

Assuming you have skills and are educated, after that it is all about luck and timing. Guys who finished college 3 years before me all went to major airlines. Most are still flying even after 0911. Me, I graduated almost 8 years ago and I just got my 1000hr PIC! The majors are still not hiring. Except some of the smaller ones. It is also almost impossible to predit how an airline is going to perform 5 years or 10 years from now.

Ask a lot of pilots how they got to where they are now. For some it was almost a fairytale. They got in a major, or a good corporate very young. Have had great schedules and great money from the start. Others struggled for many years....

Do not get me wrong : I still love my job!
I am lucky because I still love it after all those sacrifices. When I got in this industry I was misinformed and did not know anything about the airline business. I do not want to discourage you. I just want you to inform yourself, so you won't make the mistakes most of us made. It is not all gravy...

I hope this helps.

Good luck

P.S: No it is not dangerous! Pleaaaaase!

[b777900]

Depends on the company you work for.

Theres been quite a few threads here with differing points of view.
One recent thread which sums up my thoughts was 'The demise of the professional pilot', do a search. Many pilots not as happy as they used to be.

[BEagle]

The life of an airline pilot! Is it worth it?

From what I've learned:

20 years ago - most definitely

10 years ago - definitely

Now - definitely not. Spend your life locked in a broom cupboard with a stranger for 2 hours 3 or 4 times per day - that's short haul. Over the top security rules, 'yellow jacket mentality', excessive fatigue, reduced quality of life, reduced income expectations, reduced respect in the public eye......

You rarely meet passengers any more and everything which made the life of an airline captain special have now gone. You're viewed as little more than a train driver. And a F/O probably isn't even paid as well as a London Underground driver.

A colleague who was a well-paid Virgin Atlantic captain told me that all the paranoid post- Sept 11th security nonsense for bona fide crews was the last straw - and he resigned due to the miserable lifestyle which he was suffering in consequence.

[Gazeem]

Whilst I don't doubt that this job isn't all what it was in the good ol' days,

I can't think of anything I'd rather do,

0ver the top security - true, but that's creeping in to all walks of life (rightly so, you have to go through security at the passport office!)

yellow jacket mentality - you get officious h&S types everywhere (have you had the display screen equipment facists round yet?)

increased fatique and reduced quality of life, hmm, well I do a few deep nights (but rather that than a nine to five sitting in the car park that is this nation's roads for three hours a day), I have more free time that anyone in any other walk of life I know (perhaps teachers?:8 )

income, the pay for a jet driver seems quite comfortable whatever seat you are in ( there seems to be a myth amongst pilots that everyone else out there is earning at least 50k, in my experience this is not the case, and where you are you will be working very hard and long hours to do so),

lack of REE-spect from the publicwell, join every other professional in the UK! (GPs, police, teachers, etc.) if you want respect become a football player or a pop star,

not sure what a London underground driver earns, but would you rather act like a mole or an eagle to earn it?

I'm sure the job is not as good as it used to be, but that's probably in common with every other profession in this country.

It's still one of the best jobs I can think of, we just need to work hard to protect our lot, it looks like there is a worldwide lack of experienced pilots around the corner and the time to claw back our T's & C's is ripe.

Edited after 07/07/05

[spaceman1000]

most pilots die of skin cancer.
for a 2 hours flight, you get like 40 X-ray.
after 1 year, you have caught 2000 time UV than an average traveler.

now, what do you say about that?
you will probably die at 60(if you are lucky)

come spend your money, and if you are lucky to get a job, the job will kill you. Skin cancer is very painful.

have fun with that!

[PilotOnline]

Spaceman,

Please prove that.

Many thanks.

[spaceman1000]

i can not prove it. airline have hiden the fact that cancer comes from flight.

this "problem" is on talk with Airfrance and airfrance pilots.

[Monty77]

No, spaceman is quite right.

78.4% of statistics are made up on the spot to win an argument.

Reeves and Mortimer (famous UK statistic experts) (comedians actually) stated this back in 2001.

[spaceman1000]

same problem with french nuclear tests, same problems with hiroshima, same problems with amiante, same problems with back surgery due to computer ....

[Blinkz]

Monty I thought it was 94.6% of statistics were made up?

:}

[Send Clowns]

Hahaha, so Spaceman, how come the travellers don't get that UV radiation, since they are with you, and presumably travellers average more than 2 sectors a year? Or are all Air France pilots flying over 4000 sectors a year? At 2 hours a sector as a conservative average, plus a half hour fast turnaround, they are averaging 27 hours 20 minutes a day, suggesting neither the working-time directive nor flight-time limitations are having the desired effect in France.

How come there are white pilots? Surely they would all either be black (being able to survive to pick up a years' experience), have picked up a damned good tan or be dead by now?

[JB007]

Agree with Gazeem, the world itself is a totally different place to what it was 10, 20, even 4 years ago, especially the worlds aviation industry....

Ain't nothin wrong with this job - can't get enough of it!

[Mushrooms]

Thanks for the replies, it'll definetly make me think.

I love flying, but I love so many other things as well. I'm 16 so I still have some time before I finally decide, maybe i won't like piloting as much as I do now.

I just feel that becoming an airline pilot (something for Air Canada, Delta, etc) requires timing and luck, and I don't want to set my future and my family's future on luck. Why struggle half my life to accomplish a dream, a dream which ill only get to experience just a couple years before I retire.

As I read some of these posts I can see the majority of these posts and the ones on other forums (Jetcareers, Surclaro, etc) I've realized that the people who tell me to keep flying are the ones who have a deep, deep passion for flying and would fly crop dusters so long as they can fly. Is it impossible? Of coarse not. But I'd rather do something I feel I have more control over rather than something that has to be over luck.

[scroggs]

Spaceman does that mean we can look forward to your imminent demise? Oh, jolly good! :} :E

[sidtheesexist]

Scroggs - a bit harsh methinks - I find spaceman's posts highly amusing - guaranteed to make me chuckle! :) rgds, Sid

[spaceman1000]

considering a traveller uses plane 6-7 times a year, it is far less than a pilot who flies everyday, and who is roasted like a slice of beef in a microwave.

as for the statistic numbers, it is hard to say, as airline have hidden the fact that cancer "may come" from UV.

but the question still remain:" why airline pilots have more cancer than in other profession"


why airline pilots found themself suddenly retired with some minor back pain, legs problems,chronicle depressions, airloss, lack of Viagra in the reserve...,

Airlines should now take their responsabilities.Not only airfrance, but all airlines!

[enicalyth]

Passenger windows have special UV blocking glass.

Pointy end glass blocks all visible light because it is so thick but magnifies UV and gamma rays 1000-fold.

Passengers meals are doped with cancer suppressant drugs.

Airlines have suppressed the facts for years. All Concorde pilots actually died five years after service so they had to clone identical replacements otherwise the secret would be out.

Aliens abduct red-neck Americans because of their intelligence and superb physique.

Advanced civilisations can have spacecraft proceed undetectably through space at hyper speeds to crash at Roswell in order to appease the Gods.

Only beleeve stories that are tiped with errors, aliens make no mistakes.

Someone help me with how to post photogs on the site and I will post a reunion of old, unbold pilots all in excess of 60 yrs.

I presume that they are all undead.

[rubik101]

Mon Oncle was a pilot for 42 years and is still alive and kicking at 77years young. He has bad knees though and his eyes aren't what they were but he still has all his skin!
Pilots obviously spend far too much time lolling by the pool on layovers.
Air France pilots and statistics just don't add up.

[zcar]

Clowns, you need more in your life man!

[M.85]

Ennie,
Which Airline ydo you work for?Any interviews in the near future;-)
Next month I have over 96 hours scheduled,5 days of 8 hours flying straight..
M.85

[Send Clowns]

Hey, zcar, it's my job to be able not only to do pointless calculations but to teach my students to do them and pass the ATPLs!

Spaceman,

So now the pilot gets 2000 times the radiation, despite the traveller flying 6-7 times a year. So the pilot must be flying 13,000 trips, averaging 250 sectors a week. Impressive.

While UV is proved to cause certain cancers, and might actually help prevent others (such as prostate cancer) it certainly also causes sunburn. Hence my surprise at the existence of white airline pilots.

[spaceman1000]

you are the one who want be cooked in a microwave!. so 2000 time or 10000 time, where is the difference?

make a research on the net and you will see what I mean.

[scroggs]

Spaceman let us see some evidence for your allegations, please. It seems to me that you have heard a few rumours, decided that they're facts, embroidered them a bit - no, a lot - and concluded that all airline pilots are about to expire through various cancers.

Let me help you a little: in my airline we continuously monitor radiation exposure to pilots and cabin crew through the use of specialist monitoring equipment on one or two aeroplanes, and the extrapolation of their findings to all our crew. No crewmember is allowed to exceed the statutory raditation limits applied to all workers in at-risk fields. In fact, our results show that no crew member has reached more than (if I remember correctly) half of the maximum exposure in any given period. The crew most exposed are the Japanese national cabin crew who work exclusively on LHR-NRT flights, which fly at high latitudes (where atmospheric protection is less effective) and at high altitudes (FL380+). The vast majority of our crew, who cover a wider route structure, are way, way below the statutory limits.

Cancer is not more common among crew in our airline than in the general population. In fact, our workforce must be particularly fit and healthy as illness of any kind is lower than the general population. In my seven years in the airline, I don't believe any pilot has died of cancer, though one has been diagnosed of bowel cancer and is now in remission. I am aware of one cabin crew member who has.

These, Spaceman, are facts. Something which you patently are not familiar with, and prefer to replace with your prejudices. You, and your conspiracy theories, are far more damaging to our profession than any cancer.

Scroggs

[jamestkirk]

How can a thread asking 'is being an airline pilot worth it' descend into:

WHO KNOWS THE MOST ABOUT UV RADIATION.

Stop everyone, before you require professional help.

[eoincarey]

In answer to the original question, No, the life probably isnt what it used to be, what with fellas like Michael O Leary kickin the sh**e out of us, but perhaps its a case of "Good Old Days" syndrome; i.e. treasuring the past despite the fact that it really wasnt that good back then!
Think of it another way. Maybe the 707 and DC-8 pilots of the 60's that we so "admire" would really have preferred to be flying DC-3's and such.
Just a thought.

P.S Aye Aye Captain Kirk. I'm outraged that you think we need professional help. I'll have you know that my therapist thinks I'm very special.

They're watching me.......

[flying log]

rubik101

bad arguement I'm afraid,

your oncle is living proof that flying is bad for the knees and eyes

[CruisingSpeed]

Maybe put forward in a blunt way by spaceman, but those of you who believe that radiation exposure (and not necessarily talking UV, but cosmic radiation) is NOT having a significant impact on your health and cancer risk are fooling yourselves.

But hey, there were clever scientists wearing goggles in Arizona back in the 50s to look at atomic bombs going off nearby, to their peril.

[The African Dude]

Put forward in a blunt way?roasted like a slice of beef in a microwave. No... I would suggest it was just wrong....!

[toomuchradiations]

.....as u can see from my nick....this is (one of )my biggest concern(S).........some cabin crew friends of mine made me notice that most of the pilots have only daughters because those radiations knock out your " Y " chromosomes from your balls......

have u got some statitistics about that??

:{ :ugh: :bored: :( :sad:

[scroggs]

God, give me strength....:rolleyes: :hmm: :mad:

[Gufo]

....as u can see from my nick....this is (one of )my biggest concern(S).........some cabin crew friends of mine made me notice that most of the pilots have only daughters because those radiations knock out your " Y " chromosomes from your balls......

have u got some statitistics about that??



MUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :}

[redsnail]

Life as an airline pilot? Dunno, not one.

It's taken me about 18 years to get to a jet job and I am loving it.

The other morning. 0230z show, 0330z go. Min rest too.
Starting to lighten up as we began the take off. It had been raining and there was a lot of cloud about.

Decided to hand fly the SID for fun. Accelerating through 210kts to 250kts in a climbing turn broke clear of the cloud. Got a cool sensation of speed with the cloud being so close. Wx was clear for the rest of the trip and CAVOK for the arrival.

Nice.

[jamestkirk]

Thank you for a normal post on this very strange thread.

[fhchiang]

i'm 18 this year...

doing pre-u....


.. planing to enter flight school next year.....


dunno.. after all that have been said,

i still think flying is worth it.. because i love flying.........

[redsnail]

James,

Note I said I am not an airline pilot.
It's taken 18 years and a variety of jobs/locations to get there.

Part time instructing.
Bush flying.
Coastwatch flying.
Regional airline flying (Outback Oz)
Regional airline flying (Sydney)

Night freight. UK
Blown attempt to get into easyJet.

Corporate airline at last.

It's only now after 18 years of battling and shifting locations that I am finally earning decent money. Only one job in Oz did I earn near the national wage.

My last flying job in the UK I didn't earn any where near the national wage.

It's now worth it only because I am still a pilot. Not an autopilot operator. That's something to keep in mind. ;)

Yep, that view was particularly stunning, I would have got a photo of it but I was busy. I can tell you the beers tasted mighty fine that night, so did the news that our show was at 0900z :ok:

[zcar]

Clowns:

You do it with such aplomb too! I used to be one of the said students.:O

[Icarusthesecond]

Is life as an Airline Pilot worth it?

Yes, yes and yes. And do you know what I'm not even one of them, but I'm trying.

If I didn't think so I wouldn't be working so hard to achieve my ambition

So bollox to those who go on and on and on about crap like microwaves, yellow jackets, straight jackets etc etc.

We've all done the exams and we all know the risks. All weighed up, I'll still want it so much.

Tell you what, those who have doubts, please leave the industry and assist people like me to do the job without whinging.:ok:

[redsnail]

Icurus2nd,

With all due respect, you're not in the industry at the moment. Yes, it's easy to look in from outside and think it's the duck's guts. Yes, it is a great job but there are some serious downsides.

Have a read of this here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180483&perpage=15&pagenumber=3) about some of the very harsh realities of the job of airline pilot.

Now you might think that what happened in Australia has absolutely no bearing on UK/Europe. There's folks flying in some pretty terrible weather in Scotland. There's folks flying night freight in aircraft that have INOP devices. Note the pay. Note the pilots hours and qualifications. Not every one walks straight into a jet job with all the automatics flying SID-Airway-STAR-radar vectored ILS....

That is the reality of too many people chasing too few a jobs.

There's nothing wrong in having a dream. There's nothing wrong in chasing that dream. The trick is to realise when the a) the dream becomes a nightmare b) people tell you that the dream is 180 deg from reality.

So long as the rose coloured glasses are off and you enjoy the journey in becoming a pilot and realise that you may never earn the big bucks then you're ok.

Rubbishing pilots who quite rightly complain about the rubbish hi viz stuff, the security stuff and the locked doors is not wise. Remember, they are doing it every day.....

Good luck.

[scroggs]

Icarus unlike Redders, I am an airline pilot, and I agree withe everything she says. I admire your enthusiasm, but you must learn to temper it with a dose of realism as well. This job is not undiluted joy every minute of the day - no job is. It has the potential to be great fun, but only when all the other aspects of you life are fully sorted. And the efforts of the various members of the Flying Prevention Alliance (security, jobsworths, office staff and many others), who continually fail to attempt any understanding of our job, can genuinely produce sufficient frustration to really ruin your whole day - or worse. (Before anyone jumps down my throat, I know there are many fine people in these trades. It's not the good ones that spoil your day!)

I'm lucky; I fly a big aeroplane very long distances to very nice places and get paid a reasonable salary for it. I've been flying for 29 years, and it wasn't always like that...

[Icarusthesecond]

Point taken, advice heeded and apologies to those who took offence. My words got the better of me because I feel this type of thread does nothing to contribute to Wannabes wishing to become an airline pilot.

Scroggs - Apologies, thanks as ever for the good advice.

The cons of becoming an airline pilot have been covered so many times Pitfalls of becoming an airline pilot (Newkid) and Puritan’s excellent sticky to name but 2, not to mention the other million that say all of the negative stuff.

But the incessant threads about the decline in the aviation business, erosion of terms of reference etc do nothing to inspire the future generation of aviators.

If a person is serious about becoming a pilot, and after spending in the region of £40k you would rather hope that they would be, they will research the pros and the cons.

Redsnail, thanks for the advice but I know about (some of) the harsh realities of flying as I have been doing it in the Mil for a few years and know enough about having to fly when you would rather be inside, or at home! I don’t wear rose coloured glasses, I have action plans, contingency plans and escape plans all drawn up. I am going into this eyes wide open.

The point I so appallingly made before was this: Offering advice that will assist someone in achieving their dream is laudable. However, if the constant knocking of the industry puts just 1 person off (say someone who is really struggling to raise the capital), then someone will always look back with the “what if”.

Goodness knows it is difficult enough, this is after all the thread that says “Do ya feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya? If so, here's the place to swap the hot gen on who's sponsoring or employing, their selection criteria, and where those oh so elusive first jobs can be spotted in the wild. Watch out for the tumbleweeds...”
I read that to be one of support.

Now off to hide under my bed and await the back lash.

[scroggs]

Fair enough, Icarus, no probs! As a mil guy, you'll be well aware of the activities of the Flying Prevention Branch (mil) and Allied Trades. They are fully engaged in the civilian world as well, though often under different names... :suspect:

You're quite right that people here are often quick to point out the downsides of the job - particularly in respect of certain employers - and perhaps the upsides get less attention than they should. Trouble is, the upsides are often not the things that the inexperienced, rosy-glassed wannabe would imagine - hence the various threads linked to in the Archive sticky. It is important that we disabuse wannabes of preconceptions that are based on an outdated impression of the profession (from old books and films - the military suffers from this too!), and give a more balanced and realistic picture of what actually goes on in 2005, rather than what happened in 1955.

Realistic enthusiasm is what I want to see from our wannabes, coupled with the determination and resourcefulness to overcome the difficulties they will undoubtedly face - even more so now HSBC is apparently getting out of our market.

Scroggs

[redsnail]

Fair cop Icarus.
Most of your compatriots do very well in the civvy world. In particular the corporate world.
:)

[covec]

...from a military flyer's perspective...there are the hunted and the hunter.

Why run with a herd when you can run with a pride....:ok:

[Plus flying suits are so much sexier - as is being a "warrior!].

[Icarusthesecond]

Oh please......

A warrior! Are you in the infantry or indeed anywhere close to the FEBA? Mil aviators are many things, brave, daring and often a little daft but warriors they ain't.:\

Flying suits merely hide those love handles you have let develop as a result of too much crew room banter over coffee and biscuits.:ok:

As for running with the herd and pride etc why do your licences then???
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157687

[haughtney1]

Hey Reddy........are you still flying out of LTN these days?...(just bein nosey):D

[redsnail]

Luton, London City, Leeds, Oxford, Zurich, Geneva, Nice. You name it, I'm likely to either have or going to fly out of it :)

I still live in sunny Luton and the bloke flies out of Luton. :ok:

[covec]

Icarusthesecond: you got me!
;)

Regards

[haughtney1]

Thanks reddy....I thought I heard a ladies voice at LGW a little while back..with a bit of an ozzie twang..mayby it was you.

If it was you ya stole our dep slot!!....typical bus jet..can always accept B1...while we have to take Alpha or Mike..:hmm:

[redsnail]

Nah nah nah, wasn't me. Well, I don't recall going into LGW recently. :D

Our c/s is Skyshare.