Jetstar Asia a failure for QF

[The Riddler]

Jetstar Asia experiment fails
By Scott Rochfort
June 30, 2005


Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon's dream of grabbing a chunk of the burgeoning South-East Asian airline market appears to have evaporated, after the 49 per cent Qantas-owned Jetstar Asia conceded it was in talks on an "alliance" with Singapore budget carrier Valuair.

Responding to a report in Singapore's Business Times newspaper, Jetstar Asia chief executive Ken Ryan yesterday issued a one-sentence statement which "confirmed that Jetstar Asia and Valuair are exploring a variety of ways that they can work together or co-operate with each other".

The statement is seen as a major defeat for Qantas, which spruiked ambitions for being a "very substantial" player in low-cost Asian aviation but now faces becoming the first high-profile casualty of a low-cost Asian airline war.

Jetstar Asia started flying out of Singapore last December. Within a few weeks the airline admitted it was facing serious troubles.

After failing to get access to key routes to Indonesia and China, Jetstar Asia had to cut its projected fleet of eight A320s to four this year. The airline also pulled out of its first route, Singapore to Pattaya, after two months of service.

Jetstar Asia declined to elaborate on its troubles yesterday.

"All avenues are being explored, that's all I can say," Jetstar Asia's head of marketing, Dorit Grueber, said in an email to the Herald. One major benefit of Jetstar Asia and Valuair merging their operations is that both have fleets of A320s.

Qantas is expected to highlight Jetstar Asia's woes as it lobbies the Federal Government to keep Singapore Airlines off its lucrative Sydney-Los Angeles route.

Qantas could counter arguments for Australia to stop protecting Qantas on the LA route by highlighting restrictions Jetstar Asia faces flying out of Singapore. But Jetstar Asia's main access problems lie with Indonesia and China. So far it can fly to only four cities in both countries, routes it says are "developmental" and loss-making.

Qantas spokeswoman Belinda de Rome said: "We've been advised of the discussions and remain committed to Jetstar Asia."

Meanwhile, the Singapore Government said national carrier Singapore Airlines should consider merging with Qantas, echoing calls by Australian political leaders last week. Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong said as commercial operators in a very competitive sector the companies should keep open all options, include a consolidation process.

Mr Yeo's comments are the first by a Singapore official since Prime Minister John Howard raised the prospect of a merger last week.

Valuair declined to comment on the talks with Jetstar Asia. It remains unclear where the planned "alliance" would leave Valuair's plans to launch services from Singapore to the Australian east coast. It is understood the airline is having trouble finding long-haul A330 aircraft to service Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne.

Valuair, founded by former Singapore Air executive Lim Chin Beng, was the first budget airline to begin services out of Singapore.

One major disadvantage for Singaporean carriers is they have no domestic markets to lean on if they are blocked from particular countries. Malaysia's AirAsia, seen as Asia's most successful low-cost airline to date, had the benefit of a booming domestic market.

Singapore Airlines and Ryanair's part-owned Tiger Airways appear to be the only Singapore low-cost carriers left with major growth plans. Tiger's chief executive Tony Davis confirmed yesterday the carrier was looking for partners to give it access to domestic markets.

Meanwhile, Qantas announced plans to resume services from Sydney to Beijing from January 9 next year, initially three times a week. It said it planned daily flights to Beijing and Shanghai in time for the 2008 Olympic Games.

Qantas shares rose 1c to $3.34.

[Triple 7]

The writtings being on the wall for a long time, now its a matter of when will it stop flying......

Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man.......Landing is the FIRST !

[Sunfish]

The writing was on the wall before it even started. There appears to be little strategic thinking going on at QF, just knee jerk reactionary stuff.

[Australia2]

Sunfish,

Yes, this little failing has indicated just how inept the current management team is, operating in their own backyard. Given they will faced increased competition from the likes of CX/EK/SQ as the industry goes forward it must concern current employee's !

Cheers Oz2

[1279shp]

C'mon, why doesn't QF do a tie up whole-heartedly?

[Sandy Freckle]

There appears to be little strategic thinking going on at QF
They came up with Jetstar domestic didn't they? Virgin are getting walloped now aren't they?

You are very easy to pick on, Sunfish. Thats because your posts are consistently QF "con-centric".

Get over your little QF problem. Go see your therapist, have a bex, maybe even a valium. But shut up about a topic of which you know nothing.

[pullock]

Sandy Freckle,

I think that anyone who thinks that Jetstar is walloping Virgin is a bit short sighted.

Jetstar as a new entrant has enjoyed a honeymoon period in the marketplace.In this period it has promoted it's self aggressively by offering by offering unreasonably cheap product coupled with a large advertising blitz. (in saying cheap I am refering to both the value and the cost of the product)

The product budget, along with the advertising budget, will not last for ever. The walloping that you refer to by Qantas (AKA Jetstar) of Virgin, is actually the beginning of a war of attrition in the market place. QF attacking Virgins's low margin market by offering product below cost, is a relatively easy mark, as QF's capital will last a whole lot longer than Virgin's in such a fight.

I doubt that Virgin will try to compete with Jetstars prices - if they do they are mad. Externally, to attract their market, they need to offer a product that competes in service to main line rather than competing in price to Jetstar, as a quality alternative to the low cost operator. If Virgin react to their market quickly - which is not an ability that it's competitor has, then they will capture upper middle high yield market that has no particular affiliation with a brand but rather with tolerable product.

Funny, this is where it's all now coming full circle. The low cost carrier idea has it's place. Started by the war between Impulse and Virgin, and now that Jetstar has taken prices and product delivery to a new low, Virgin - the winnner of the original air fare war, has only one direction to go - higher quality.

Under it's current tunnel vision business plan, Jetstar has only one way to move and that's lower fares made available by providing a bare bones product and reducing expenses. It would be hard for Jetstar to reverse out of this model - this is where Virgin have an obvious advantage.

It's all a cycle within the marketplace, and the airline who is most flexable to the consumers needs and stays one step ahead will survive or just get a neck ahead.

There is one thing for sure - if Jetstar or Virgin are to survive in the marketplace, they will each have to change their stratergies to meet marketplace demands. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to predict that over the next few years if it is to survive that Jetstar in Australia is not going to look very much like it does today!!!!!!!

[Sunfish]

Sandy F, There have been allegations of cross subsidies from QF to Jetstar on Pprune before now.

My guess is that if VB can find even a shred of proof, the ACCC will act.

As for good strategic thinking, undercutting your competitors with a low price, inferior product is not generally regarded as a very bright idea. The marketing term for it is "pissing in the soup".

[Not Nightowl]

I've got a mate in NZ who used to work at a certain hotel. The chef there (on a bad day I guess) used to piss in the Soup of the Day!

[Sandy Freckle]

So now you are publicly stating that Jetstar (Oz) was "not a very bright idea"? Thats what you are suggesting Sunfish?

Sorry my friend (very loose term that), you are trying to make any argument fit your vendetta against QF, and if Jetstar fits the bill then so be it.

You are making a fool of yourself with your continuous tirade against Qantas. Zero respect.

[Don Esson]

Pullock,

Not only did jetstar have an initial honeymoon with the public, it also enjoyed a start up not experienced by any LCC in the world. They inherited more than the bones of an airline and thus did not have the expense of establishing support and the cost of acquiring an AOC.

They also inherited a fleet of near new B717's with fully trained crews as well as many established routes with SLF to carry. Again at little or no cost. Admittedly they have inaugurated a couple of new routes but by and large there has been a transfer of business from Qantas and QantasLink. How could anyone hope to fairly compete in these circumstances??

Anyone who thinks Jetstart is an unfettered success has to be a prize wally!

:( :(

[permFO]

So what happens to all the QF pilots who went to J*Asia? It once again hilights IMHO that aviation careers are dictated at board level.

[Sked]

Sandy, Virgin have lost no market share. Still holding about 30% or a little better. So if they have lost no market share, where have Jetstar's pax come from? QF may be? Stealing from mother's purse? Yep really walloping DJ!

[B772]

There is some intense competition in parts of South East Asia especially in Singapore which QF and their partners may have under estimated.

Tiger Airways are advertising Bangkok to Singapore from BHT264 which is approx AUD8.

Look for some consolidation of carriers in Singapore and Thailand and the likely collapse of Phuket Air. Higher fuel prices and slowing economies are also going to reduce air travel demand.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

It's probably stopped Virgin from attaing the 50% that they originally wanted.

[Sunfish]

Sandy with the greatest of respect, you are leading with your chin. I suggest you look a little deeper into the Pprune Archives. Some of us have consistently said that Jetstar Asia was a bad idea from the very start - and its not QF bashing to say so.

The main reason is that QF had absolutely no defendable competitive advantage in going into the Asian LCC market. There was nothing it could do better than Asians themselves could do, and that remains the case today.

[Pete Conrad]

Enema Bandits dad has hit the nail on the head, Jetstar has stopped the much broadcasted attempt by DJ to get the 50% market share Godfrey et al were skiting about. As far as GD is concerned, whether he gets pax from mainline or elsewhere is academic.

permFO, you and I know of ex AN guys that have gone to Jetstar Asia, good guys, hope they don't suffer it all over again!!

[Gnadenburg]

If a gaggle of J*Asia pilots lose their jobs I hope QF takes them on board.

Won't expect any complaints from the QF pilots. They have been asking for compassion themselves on this forum recently. Protection of the Pacific route and all that.

[Keg]

Gnade, I hope we do too- the same as I'd hope we'd do for Eastern, Sunnies, J* and AO. Alas, but I don't think the choice will be up to rank and file pilots though- just the ones at the top of the tree! :(

[BUSDRIVER200]

I really don't think jet*asia are in that bad a situation, valuair are the ones that approached jet* for help, it means only 2 things, JSA take on valuair, or they dnt and valuair go broke. either way they are eliminating one of their main competitors. As for the AN pilots from QF working in singas, they still have their jobs in QF. It;ll just mean more experienced training captains being wasted in the back seat of a 400. cheers BUSDRIVER200

[Tofasttofly]

Poor Mr Dixon, now he knows how it feels to be f#$@%d over. MR Dixon it is time to look after your staff.

[apacau]

I think BUSDRIVER is on the money. My info says it will more likely be a Jetstar takeover of Valuair - with a new airline to operate under the Jetstar Asia banner.

Makes sense as I can't see QF so easily conceding on this one, even if they are bleeding very badly...

This will be achieved by either Jetstar purchasing 49% of Valuair or the 49% may even come direct from Qantas.

If this is the case, the interesting route to watch will be Valuair's Singapore-Perth service...

[Icebreaker]

apacau,

if J*A were to 'takeover' VF and run as J*A, it'd be bye-bye to Valuair's approvals into China and Indonesia (a major reason for J*A interest in a 'merger') so that won't happen. There will most likely some careful arrangement of the company structure so that these will be protected. Got to agree though with the demise of the Perth run however - interesting, but hardly surprising, times in S.E.A. :hmm:

[Redstone]

Did Qantas own the deputy PM?

Crikey Daily - Thursday, 23 June

Some people will miss John Anderson being Deputy PM and minister for transport – like Geoff Dixon and Margaret Jackson, the Qantas duo who always seemed to get most of what they wanted from “Hollywood.”

Will Mark Vaile be so available?

Suggesting Singapore Airlines should be allowed to take over Qantas probably isn't the sort of nationalistic impression the new National Party leader wanted to create this week, but that doesn't necessarily mean Vaile isn't going to prove a Qantas captive as well. Vaile's rather strange statement really means he's in favour of scrapping the limit on foreign ownership of Qantas – just what Dixon and Jackson have been wanting for years.
Vaile has generally been seen to be in the Costello camp rather than Qantas's pocket when it comes to allowing Singapore Airlines fly the Pacific route, perhaps reflecting the greater time he's spent criss-crossing the Pacific with his trade minister hat on. He's also had the (relatively) rational briefing of his departmental advisers and the embarrassment of dealing with the oddity in our free trade agreement with China.

Will all that change when he's National Party leader and has to answer to his members when Qantas threatens to withdraw a service to Woop-woop? We'll find out soon enough.

Meanwhile, there's an interesting view put in Singapore's Today newspaper by a local aviation consultant and tourism executive, Prithpal Singh, about the failure of JetStar Asia. Singh wants Singapore to go for the higher moral ground by announcing a unilateral open skies regime, starting with its ASEAN neighbours. Singh writes:

Let any number of Malaysian and Indonesian airlines fly into Singapore without demanding reciprocity. This would unclog the Singapore-KL route and bring fares down, and with Indonesia, remove the bad taste of the tit-for-tat restrictions on budget carriers."

Singapore-based JetStar Asia could become an issue if it were to fail. It's an open secret that, like the other budget carriers here, it's a money loser. There are complaints that 49% Qantas-owned JetStar Asia is not getting lucrative routes and that the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) is not trying hard enough to secure them. The CAAS has denied this.

If the complaints became louder and if Jetstar were to wind down, or Qantas were to pull out of this partnership, it would be a blow to Singapore's image and give Qantas ammunition to use against Singapore. We have to be realistic on one important point – that for all the rhetoric, it's highly unlikely we will see an open skies aviation policy fully implemented in Asia in the foreseeable future.

[404 Titan]

Budget airlines Valuair and Jetstar to merge after all

Two of Singapore's three budget airlines are said to have finalised a merger - the first sign of consolidation among South-east Asia's fledgling low-cost carriers.

On-off talks between privately-owned Valuair and Qantas associate Jetstar Asia seem to have materialised into a larger company, with Jet star Asia offering to inject an undisclosed amount of fresh capital through its leading shareholder Qantas.

Valuair's shareholders - led by former Singapore Airlines veteran Lim Chin Beng, Star Cruises and Asiatravel.com - will be minority shareholders of the enlarged airline.

The deal has not been finalised yet - it is subject to shareholder approval on both sides. But sources reckon this is a certainty, given the financial stress the two carriers are under.

Jetstar started out last year with about $100 million in capital, while Valuair's shareholders have invested close to $60 million. Both companies have used up a substantial amount of their capital.

The deal comes just a week after they pulled back from merger talks because they could not agree on a shareholding structure for a merged entity.


Wires

[Pappa Smurf]

I notice on the previous page,
"i doubt Virgin will try to compete with Jetstar prices--mad if they do"

The low cost airlines make me laugh.Sure they have $99 air fares from say Adelaide to Cairns--but how many.
People i know see this advertised and decide to go on a holiday.Next day i decide i will go and the cheapest fare is $260.Leave it too late and its around $500.
Apart from the half dozen cheap seats ,if you book ahead Qantas is not much different in prices but its not a direct flight.
The average punter just automatically think Jetstar and Virgin are cheap.
The flight i took was 100% full.I usually fly Qantas which normally have about 60% bussiness class seats empty.
With all the added seats on the Jetstar planes i would love to see the total $ value of passengers.I doubt they would be much different to similar Qantas flight.

From my observations the majority of passengers were the average Joe Blow taking the family on holidays.

Why Jetstar
Direct flight
Its a low cost airline so must be cheaper?.

Must admit this was a holiday route-----not sure how the inter city flights fair.
Jetstar is only to keep Virgin down anyway.With only 2 airlines it would get up to a 50/50 ratio sooner or later.

[Jet-Base]

pappa smurf
i dont understand why you're talking about jetstar vs virgin fares which are all economy flights then you talk about how your qantas flight had 60% 'business class' seats available on it.
what are you comparing?

[speeeedy]

Pappa Smurf, Good point regarding ticket prices, you almost always can get a better price on QF if you are a little flexible. But regarding load factors you will find that Qantas has a consistently higher load factor than J* and Virgin.

[Buster Hyman]

They're a funny mob up in Asia! AN learned the hard way when they geared an INTL service to Asians rather than locals. Come the next Chook flu, meltdown, whatever...we'll see how keen they are in supporting an "Aussie" carrier in their midst.

[Pappa Smurf]

Jet Base.
No good at words but was trying to explain that out of say 16 bussiness class maybe only 6 are taken. Say at a $1000 a ticket =6000.

Put in normal seats =24 ,plus they seem to get rid of other panel work so you trip over the front seat passengers legs when bording.So add another 6 seats.

Total of 30 seats at say $400 a ticket = $12000

So the few super cheap seats +the reasonable priced seats + the ones people think are cheap because its a low cost airline + the extra seating would add up to a similar total to a qantas flight with 60% empty bussiness class seats.

Ive never been right in my life ,but the way i see it,with lower wages etc Jetstar wouldnt be to far off Qantas per flight profit wise.

Must admit though,that wouldnt be on all flights.

As said before...Jetstar take passengers off Qantas and maybe Virgin and as long as they make a profit and keep Virgin to 30%--game set and match.

[OhForSure]

The interesting point which nobody has touched on is that if, in the unfortunate event that JSA do go tits up, where will the cadets go?

If they go directly into QF, they've certainly jumped the queue by at least 18 months or so!

Wish all the guys the best!

[ur2]

Why would two airlines that are in financial trouble be all of a sudden highly profitable by becoming one ?

[Jet-Base]

Thanks pappa smurt, point understood :)

ur2:

-there will be 50% less competition then. Tiger Airways will remain as the only other low cost operation out of singapore

-Tiger doesn't fly on any routes jetstar asia or valuair does, except to Bangkok, so this isnt really 'competition'

[B772]

I have heard a little whisper that J* Asia may receive 2 x A332 ex QF and operate services ex SIN to some interesting destinations incl some in Aust !!!

[Ndicho Moja]

Why of course......come on folks, get a grip.

[boebus]

J* Asia may receive 2 x A332

B772 - Don't think so. They are having trouble filing the 4 A320's they have now. With the Valuair merger, they have a lot of problems to sort out before they can even expand with the 4 A320's they are getting from Valuair!


Too many planes:(

Too many pilots:confused:

Not enough routes :uhoh: and

Not enough money:ooh:

They have to sort out the 'little' buses before they consider big 'buses'

[hangar 9]

Still ... a Bus driver is a Bus driver is a Bus driver.

[International Trader]

Information that I have heard is that a few routes including some to Australia came with Valueair, not just the planes. Big bus endorsed crews exist in both companies as well.
Don't think money is a problem if QF and the Sing Gov remain.
mmmm.

[ys120fz]

772 I think you are on the money.

I paxed a sector with Jet* Asia last week and chatted briefly with one of the crew, and the A332 rumour is strong.

Makes sense to me as part of the Dixon BIG picture plan to get the long haul QF costs down. Operate out of Asian destinations with Jet* aircraft and crews to Asutralian destinations instead of the reverse with QF; cut QF frequency, offer the QF crews a deal or face possible redundancy, and when most of the business is being flown by Australian and Jet* Asia, repaint the tails.

One way or another, Dixon is going to get the crews back down to where Virgin crews are. Like it or hate it, that's the way it will go

Add to all this the fact that Temasek have a shareholding and I think Jet* are there to stay. They'll make a market share over time and I hope they do. Some good guys there I would hate to see out of work.

For further reading see the thread "Jet* to Europe and the USA"

[Mr Seatback 2]

Is there much difference between Jetstar Asia and Jetstar Australia tech crew pay and conditions?

And/or Valuair pay and conditions?

Just curious as to which arm could secure the possible use of A330's or similar.

[Mr. Boeing]

Sorry ys120fz, can't agree with you. Qantas only uses Singapore as a tech stop with most of the punters going through to Europe. Good loads too. Obviously with the profit that has been made, yields are good. First and business class is where all the money is made. I can't see them retrenching in the near future either as the on going employment of pilots would have ceased long ago.

[Mr. Boeing]

Of course they're going to have a disproportianate effect on the economy. With a population of around 20 million and an airline requiring 747's that cost around half a billion each, what else would you expect?
By the way, as a Qantas employee, I do feel for people who lose their jobs as I had many friends in Ansett and saw what they went through. Not nice.

[hangar 9]

Does any one have info on the J*Asia pushback last week that went wrong, when a young pax. asked if that door ( aft cargo) is supposed to be still open?

And rumour that Crew had already started first engine.?

[Miriam]

seems like a wild story hangar 9, windows/doors is on the checklist and the ground crew at the nose wheel have to give a clearance to start. sure its not at bangkok as the apu is started when pax are loading and aft cargo still open.

did you hear the problem they had with a fmc screen which was blanking. the crew decided to 're-rack' it in flight (can't remember if they were told by maint or saw an engineer doing it sucessfully earlier in the day) to try and kick it back to life. problem was that when they pulled it out the removal handle jammed the throttle levers and they could neither remove it or reinstall it or more worringly move the throttles so they had to 'beat it to death' with the crash axe. don't know how true it is but it was told to us when we were talking to the young kid with a widow seat 22f above the aft cargo door

[Buster Hyman]

I think the door was left open whilst they were de-icing the wings.

[REM]

Miriam, I'm not sure whether your post is tongue-in-cheek, but it sounds like the old Dan Air 727 Wx radar story modified for the A320.
If the FMCG failed, there is a procedure for pulling CBs detailed in FCOM 4. You would certainly not rerack the MCDU.
The FMGC is a computer in the avioics bay. The MCDU is the cockpit interface between it and serveral other systems (ACARS, AIDS, CFDS)
If the crew did try and rerack the MCDU, it is not in the path of the thrust levers.
The thrust levers do not move on the A320 in flight. Once climb thrust is set after T/O, the thrust levers remain in the climb detent until the retard call at 20ft.

[hangar 9]

Miriam ME thinks that you are knowingly trying to make light of my rumour by introducing a new one that is obviously unfounded.

I have it on good authority that mine did happen and there is a cover up trying to keep it out of the media.

The boy and family have been given free tickets to keep them from going to the media.

The pilot is blaming his indication the compamy is blaming the engineer and so on and so on...

I think I will stay in OZ where this NEVER happens ?

PS. Miriam reading your past posts I feel you have an afiliation with J*A and are too close to comment.

[boebus]

Hangar 9

The boy and family have been given free tickets to keep them from going to the media.

Now I know its not true! Jetstar Asia are that tight, they wouldn't give away free tickets!

If you look at Miriam's post, I think he's taking the p!ss out of you and not starting a new rumour!

don't know how true it is but it was told to us when we were talking to the young kid with a widow seat 22f above the aft cargo door

Miriam's using your kid near the aft cargo door as his source!:p

[Miriam]

hanger 9 i had a chance to speak to the little fella again from 22f he said the aeroplane was actually damaged and is in the hawker pacific hanger at singapore airport on jacks he said he took down the registration it was 9vtaa. apparently the crew not only failed to see the door was open on the indicator and failed to pick it up on the check list and after given clearance to start from the ground engineers someone forgot to remove the belt loader that’s left at cargo bay until its closed to help the short locals put the webbing in place and close the door. during the push back they started number 3 engine causing the belt loader to catch fire startling the baggage loaders that were fast asleep on the belt at the time. a punchup started between the baggage loaders and the tug drivers over them being woken up the punchup was extinguished by the airport fire fighters when the put out the fire and joined in the punch up on the tug drivers side the tug driver was local the baggage loaders were imports. The number 2 main landing gear was also bent when it hit the belt loader. they have taken off the bent landing gear off and sent it back to airbus with fedex to get straightened as after they took off they couldn’t retract the gear properly and caused them to burn an additional 28.2 t of fuel to bangkok and it also apparently needed 4 units of aileron trim in as well as 9 degrees of rudder trim in for the flight.

:rolleyes:

[Icebreaker]

hey REM,

ive got a really good 1990 commodore for sale, no rust, lady driver to church on sundays, never been on the beach or flood, nil accident damage.

for you only $50K AUD....interested?

(couldnt resist sorry)


:D :D :D

[The Flying Lip]

Miriam. What a load of c**p you spout, even assuming your last post was tongue in cheek....

9V-TAA - that well known J* A320. That would be the one that's got the stripey tail and the words "TIGER AIRWAYS" down the side then?

[knackeredII]

And I'm pretty sure that even the Tiger Airways 320s don't have a number 3 engine! Someone's pulling your leg.

And considering the max fuel load of a 320 is 18.7T, then burning an additional 28.2T en-oute would be a major feat!

[hangar 9]

Well true or not it was a good story with an element of truth, but believe they have bigger problems now. Could be a few people looking for jobs soon. The experiment is drawing to a close ?????

[Jet-Base]

what have you heard about the 'experiment drawing to a close'??

[boebus]

Hangar 9
- 'experiment drawing to a close'
Where did you get this one from? :confused: The same info from "The boy and family have been given free tickets to keep them from going to the media." :*

Things are not that great at Jet*Asia and more so for the guys and girls at the 'merged' Valuair :( But QF are 100% behind this operation.:hmm: The only problem is that they only have 49% stake and are at the mercy of the Singaporean stockholders.:rolleyes:
If the Singaporeans are a goer - Jet* Asia will be there for a long time!:ok:

[relax737]

I understand QF just put another $50 or so Million in, so it would seem they are committed to me.

Somebody trying to put the frighteneers on the Jet* boys and girls

I actually flew with them a while back, and not a bad operation. Typical LCC in that you pay for food etc., but Singapore - Bangkok for S$60 was OK. S$83 coming back

[hangar 9]

Experiment drawing to a close..

Australian was a convenient little diversion and a "dry run" by Dixon to see how the troops were going to respond (it seems that money isn't a problem when it comes to waging war against the enemy - the staff!).

Original rumor was that Australian would be gone by end of this year, looks like it will be close.

Did you think that jetstar was the experiment.???

[OZcabincrew]

will be a sad day when Australia's national airline is a low cost carriers such as jetstar.

I saw the Jet* Asia crew in the terminal in Singapore the other day and they looked great! very smart, all smiling and even waved to our crew as they walked past. Good to see.

Oz