bmi confirms Riyadh start

[Anne.Nonymous]

bmi have confirmed that they will start flights from Heathrow to Riyadh three times a week starting on 1st September on an A330 with three classes - presumably business, premier economy and economy.

Anne :O

[camel trader]

Good news to see a British carrier back on the route in a couple of months. Now there'll be some bmi pilots looking for Israeli stamps in their passports to keep them from having to operate it!

[jamesbrownontheroad]

Finally... can't imagine that the Mumbai services are turning a profit if the plane has been sitting on the tarmac three days a week at LHR.

However, might have been a good advert for BMI ("they must have lots of A330s if they can afford to have one sitting around all the time...") :hmm:

*j*

[camel trader]

Actually even 4 times a week to India is making lots of money for bmi. It is surprising, but it makes more than a daily Manchester-Chicago for example. The UK-India routes are some of the most lucrative for UK airlines due to capacity being massively out-stripped by demand. Just look at how much traffic an airline like Emirates generates ex-UK to Pakistan/India through Dubai.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Actually even 4 times a week to India is making lots of money for bmi.

Total utter 6ollox. :mad:

With the current strategy, long haul has become a leaking collander for revenue..... crap yield on Mumbai (noticed the HUGE capacity increase recently from the likes of BA, AI, Jet etc?), too much wasted down time, plus the total loss of income stream from freight on the IAD and the disenfranchising of its loyal MAN customer base.

Long haul is a shambles. :(

[Copenhagen]

Problem is that BD have scheduled and are selling inventory that will task five A330's this winter, yet we all know they only operate three A330's... LHR BOM is already for sale as a daily service. Reminds me of pyramid selling.

So, what will they cancel? LAS, the additional Bombays, and some of the daily IAD..



Heathrow
Aircraft 1 - Heathrow - Bombay
Daily LHR BOM A330 (Dept 09:35)

Aircraft 2 - Heathrow - Riyadh
3 Weekly (247) LHR RUH A330 (amazingly also departs at 09:35)

Manchester
Aircraft 3&4 - Manchester - North America (Business)

x6 weekly (134567) MAN IAD A330
Daily MAN ORD A330

Aircraft 5 - Manchester - North America (Leisure)

weekly (1) MAN SLU A330
Weekly (6) MAN ANU A330
x2 weekly (47) MAN LAS A330
x3 weekly (35) MAN BGI A330

By the way - those that pay the wages (passengers) have noticed also...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447520

[HZ123]

Sadly Israeli passport stamps will not exclude from operating into the Republic of SA. Agree with some of the comments about seemly to much down time on the a/c. BA are well shot of the RSA routes which have seen yields fall dramatically.

[point5]

The India & Saudi flights will be operated by the same aircraft from LL (at the moment 'BM'). Riyadh operates the 3 days that Mumbai doesn't! This means bmi need 4 a/c to operate their longhaul schedule, 3 A330s of their own and the leased B757!

[Copenhagen]

So why are BD selling a daily Bombay Service then?

If they are intending to change their minds, how do BD intend to compete against daily VS, Twice Daily Jet and BA, and Three daily Air India services?

[jamesbrownontheroad]

Heathrow
Aircraft 1 - Heathrow - Bombay
Daily LHR BOM A330 (Dept 09:35)

Aircraft 2 - Heathrow - Riyadh
3 Weekly (247) LHR RUH A330 (amazingly also departs at 09:35)

Well, knowing BD, that suggests they're facing a choice of which way to operate a two stop service...

LHR -> BOM -> RUH or LHR -> RUH -> BOM

:}

*j*

[lexxity]

Don't forget abouth the 4th 330 that is allegedly appearing in October:confused:

[averytdeaconharry]

bmi will operate a daily BOM as they are entitled to do under the new bilateral. So either they get another aircraft ( possibly an A340 on lease from LH) or they scrub something. It seems that all the Caribbean ans LAS services from MAN are heavily dependent on Virgin Holidays so I guess that those flights might be taken over by VS.

Do not forget that it is likely that bmi will have rights to fly to Bangalore next year. That will require more than 1 aircraft, so maybe the entire MAN network is threatened in order to support SMB' s dearest wish which is to operate long hauls from LHR. That would certainly be far more worthwhile than tinkering about with UA frequent flyer redemptions across the North Atlantic which I understand make up a substantial part of the transatlantic business just now.

Remember also that the A330's were originally acquired for much wanted TransAtlantic services from LHR which failed to materilaise.

[BahrainLad]

I think you'll find it's Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or KSA....most definitely not a Republic! RSA is Republic of South Africa, which you may be getting it confused with.

[Jordan D]

Just a note on capacity to BOM, for the poster above ... its full. And that's with however many airlines/aircraft you throw at it - AI, BD, BA, VS, Jet .... my uncle who works for AI has every year since 1983 managed one way or the other to get a staff seat to LHR for his annual break here in London, has thus far failed and that's with the increase in AI flights.

If BA can mint money on the route, surely BMI can?

Jordan

[doo]

So what is the deal with an Israeli stamp in the passport then? Do the Saudi's let you in with one?

[Re-Heat]

So what is the deal with an Israeli stamp in the passport then? Do the Saudi's let you in with one?
It used to be a massive problem that Middle Eastern countries wouldn't allow people in if there was an Israeli entry stamp, though much has changed in most places now. That is why crew are permitted 2 passports - if required - to gain entry to both Israel and Arabic countries.

[lexxity]

That would certainly be far more worthwhile than tinkering about with UA frequent flyer redemptions across the North Atlantic which I understand make up a substantial part of the transatlantic business just now.

What a load of nonsense! Like every carrier yes they do carry redemptions but no more than 4/5 per flight if that many!

[Halfwayback]

I think you will find that the reason for having two passports these days lies not with the fact that some country's 'entry stamps' bar access to other countries.

It has more to do with frequent travellers having to send off their passports for visas and, being without a passport, are unable to travel.

I had a letter to that effect from my employer and had no problem in obtaining my second passport.

Crew on duty do not generally need visas to enter a country on an 'ad hoc' basis - a Gen Dec, passport and pass will usually suffice.

HWB :O

[agent x]

quote:
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Actually even 4 times a week to India is making lots of money for bmi.
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I really dont think so! 53 pax travelled LHR-BOM in economy the other day so enough said!

[Young Paul]

:hmm: If you really think the profitability of a longhaul flight has anything to do with how many people sit in economy then you have another think coming.

[agent x]

Quote: YoungPaul
____________________________________________________
If you really think the profitability of a longhaul flight has anything to do with how many people sit in economy then you have another think coming.
____________________________________________________

Oh ye of clever quick and not well thought out reply's:

You have obviousely missed the point in my previous post perhaps you should have taken a little more time to think about it.The profitability is mirrored in how many 'bums on seats' you have and also in the levels at which the fares were sold. My guess is that most booked well in advance so had the 'best' fares, i.e cheapest fares.

For an A330 that holds 244 passengers, thats 24 in business, 48 in Premium Economy and 172 in Economy to be exact.... a t.o.b of 53 passengers who ALL sat in economy is hardly going to make a profit unless the loads pick up.

And for the record YoungPaul, profitability would start at the front of the aircraft and not the back, C,D,J,I,R business fares being the highest from left to right! It would'nt matter if economy was empty, if business was full e.g all 24 seats taken by full C, D and J passengers ( 'I' being redemption fares and 'R' Duty Travel) the flight would be in profit!:hmm:

Agent x has spoken! :ok:

[MarkD]

X and paul

easy with the trigger fingers. I think you are actually singing from the same hymnbook. X leaving out that there was 53 was the tob rather than just the Y figure did leave some room for interpretation.

[agent x]

53 pax were checked in and 53 boarded FormerFlyer it aint no rumour!!! How much more hard and confirmed do you want!!?

:mad:

[lexxity]

Just jumping to agent xs' defence, he does know how much each pax paid and trust me that flight is not in profit or anything even approching it! As I've said before lets hope the loads pick up when it goes daily.

[agent x]

thanx lexxity! At least someone is on my side and in agreement! :ok:

[eastern wiseguy]

Just curious.....but will the female crew,flight deck and cabin, encounter any special problems in KSA? How do other carriers deal with the particular brand of chauvinism rampant out there?:confused: :confused:

[Young Paul]

All I was saying was that having 50 people in economy wasn't a necessary or sufficient indicator that a flight was making a loss - even on a 24/48/172 config aircraft - on N. Atlantic routes, if 20/24 were occupied at the front, the rest of the seats would be "don't care"s. Having ONLY 50 people in economy of course would make a loss - and had you said that, I wouldn't have replied as I did.

[agent x]

no hard feelings then eh yougpaul, slight misunderstandings all round but i got the point across in the end, with the help of the lovely lexxity too! :ok:

[Little Blue]

You can bet yer bottom dollar that it'll be full when I try and get out on my annual free sby...
:(

[The Royal Family]

I am sorry Jordon D, the flights I have operated (LHR-BOM-LHR) on with bmi are not full. Half full or even a third full....

[Wasta]

Anybody got any ideas re: Fares to Riyadh?

[newswatcher]

wasta, all on the bmi (http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/index.aspx?&linkid=351) site