Falklands LGB question

[XV277]

The Falklands book thread reminded me of something in the BARG book that I've not seen anywhere else - that 800 NAS and 1 Squadron tried an LGB mission using the Laser on the nose of the crab Harrier as designator and a SHAR carrying the LGBs.

According to the book, it didn't work (Not surprising)

Anyone know the truth of this one?

[Navaleye]

Yes, I've seen the story as well. I agree hardly surprising it didn't work and believe it to be true.

[Green Meat]

Slightly off-topic, but I did meet a chap who claimed that Vulcans had been fitted with JP233 in '82. When pressed, he claimed that he'd worked for the company involved. Don't believe a word of it myself having looked up the knickers of the grand old bird and compared it to the Tornado, any takers out there?

[XV277]

Be surprised - IIRC the JP233 was a fair few years away from service, and given the method of operation (fly at very low level over the runway) I can't see it being a Vulcan weapon.

Now a stand off version....

[Navaleye]

Sorry, just don't believe it would be considered. The risks associated would be huge and the RAF would not want to lose its flagship weapon to a Tigercat or light flak would it?

[soddim]

The LGB story is correct although the participants might not be as stated. The navy also dropped slick bombs from low level with up to 24 hour delayed fuses - I guess so that they would have stopped bouncing before detonation!

[Ali Barber]

Bloodhounds mounted overwing on the Lightning was also suggested, and got about as far as JP233 on the Vulcan I would imagine. In truth, it was said in jest and the boffins said they would be right on it before the light dawned a few seconds later.

[ZH875]

I thought the Argentinian 707 Recce plane was turned south, never to return, when it sat at the limit of the Harrier, and was surprised when the Phantom turned up. This was the day after 6 Harriers were swapped for two Tooms.

The only small things I remember strapped under the Vulcan wing was the AGM-45A Shrike, and the 101-10 Pod. AJ-37 was also fitted as far as ASI.

[Navaleye]

I think the Brazillian a/f is the proud owner of at leat one ex-RAF Shrike. Why didn't they let it go?

[The Rocket]

Apparently, the two remaining Shrikes on board XM597 were fired, and there was only one that hung up, presumably the other one was launched as advertised.

Martels and 1000lb LGB's were also fitted, and trialled by XM597 during '82, but were never used operationally.

[ASRAAM]

Anti radiation martels were also fitted to the wing pylons (where the refuelling pods normally lived) on a Victor.

I dont believe it got any further than ground trials prior to the Vulcan getting Shrike.

Anyone else have more info?

[HTB]

I do recall that the Victors had a few bundles of chaff stashed in the wing HDUs (on the missions where centreline refuelling was used, i.e. Vulcan and mutual tanker-tanker and for the Victor MRR sorties) forward of the drogue. The idea was that in event of fighter threat, whoever was in the Nav Radar seat would hit the appropriate switch to deploy the hose and voila...Fine, but if the Nav Radar at the time was the co-opted MRR guy (from the recently disbanded 27 Sqn), well, who knows what switch selections might have ensued.

The only other piece of fighter evasion tactics that was suggested was to hide in the nearest cloud to break IR lock; hmmm...:rolleyes:

Other than that (and the bolt on INs in the cabin), the Victors were standard configuration (as far as I could tell as a guest artist).

[BossEyed]

Mike Jenvey: The Gazette citation can be found here, (http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?webType=0&PageDuplicate=x0%20%20%20%20%20%20&issueNumber=49134&pageNumber=0&SearchFor=Neil%20McDougall&selMedalType=&selHonourType=) and reads:


Squadron Leader Calum Neil MCDOUGALL 3144488, Royal Air Force.
When the Falkland Islands crisis arose Squadron Leader McDougall and his crew were earmarked for special training for operations in the South Atlantic but could not be fully converted immediately because of a shortage of in-flight refuelling aircraft.
While awaiting conversion Squadron Leader McDougall made a significant contribution to the enhancement of the Vulcan's capability when he captained the aircraft test flying new external weapons mountings and flew the first firing of the anti-radiation Martel missile. Shortly afterwards his crew deployed to Ascension and on both 31 st May and 3rd June 1982 he flew operational sorties against targets in East Falkland armed with the Shrike anti-radiation missile. The first sortie took the crew well beyond their previous experience in long distance flight and it was the first live missile firing by a Vulcan in a combat environment. To achieve accurate delivery of the weapon Squadron Leader McDougall had to fly his aircraft with great precision in a complex night manoeuvre. Because of the speed with which the missile was brought into service, the crew had had no previous practice but Squadron Leader McDougall's exceptional skill and determination ensured complete accuracy in performing this manoeuvre and the radar shut down shortly thereafter, consistent with a successful hit. On the second sortie, the enemy thwarted Squadron Leader McDougall's initial attacks by turning off the target radar whenever he approached. Despite his very long range from base and the fact that his fuel reserves were critical, Squadron Leader McDougall persisted for more than 25 minutes in his attempts to acquire a target by descending the aircraft towards the enemy defences. Eventually, he succeeded in provoking the enemy into switching on a radar which was briefed as the secondary target and he was then able to fire his missiles successfully at the target.
The crew then made a successful rendezvous with the Victor tanker on the return journey to Ascension Island but the refuelling probe of Squadron Leader McDougall's aircraft broke as he was making contact, so preventing the transfer of any fuel. There was no alternative but to divert the aircraft to Brazil and Squadron Leader McDougall showed courage and calmness of the highest order in preparing his aircraft and crew for the landing at an unplanned foreign airbase. Throughout this period of the flight, his aircraft captaincy was faultless and he showed the ability to make instant decisions in the first emergency of this kind during the South Atlantic hostilities. He was thus largely responsible for the eventual safe return of his aircraft and crew. Throughout his involvement in the South Atlantic Operations Squadron Leader McDougall displayed qualities of leadership and coolness which were a magnificent example to others. His fearlessness under operational conditions, and his zeal and dogged determination through long hours of a most demanding flight in a potentially dangerous environment are thoroughly deserving of significant recognition.

There are other DFC citations at that link equally worthy of perusal.