Blairforce 1 Ready for take-off

[Razor61]

'Blair Force One' ready for take-off

BRIAN BRADY
WESTMINSTER EDITOR


TONY Blair is set to order a luxuriously equipped jumbo jet dedicated to flying him around the world to visit international leaders.

The Prime Minister's renewed plan for a US-style 'Blair Force One' is part of a radical shake-up of travel arrangements for senior ministers and Royals.

Blair's jet - expected to be a wide-bodied Boeing 777 - would form part of a fleet of up to four state-funded aircraft under a review headed by the Prime Minister's 'efficiency guru', Sir Peter Gershon.

Downing Street sources have confirmed that Buckingham Palace is "enthusiastically" backing the plan to replace the ageing 'Queen's Flight' with a squadron of aircraft to ferry both members of the government and Royals.

The fleet would comprise a large passenger jet, a smaller jet capable of travelling long distances and two short-haul aircraft.

But news of the proposal has provoked fury from Labour's opponents and threatened to reignite condemnation of the huge bill for transporting Blair and his ministers around the world.

"If we ever wanted a true legacy with which to remember this Prime Minister then the whole Blair Force One folly remains the most appropriate testament to his vanity," said a Conservative spokesman.

"Everyone knows how much his ministers are already costing us with their extravagant travel arrangements, so it is incredible that he really thinks he can get this ludicrous project through."

Government advisers have consistently proposed a streamlined system of ministerial travel to replace the haphazard current arrangements, which require ministers to charter aircraft from the Royal Air Force or private firms to ferry them around the world.

Former defence secretary Geoff Hoon revealed two years ago that the proposal to purchase a plane and kit it out for the use of Blair and his staff had been discussed "at the highest levels of government".

The plan won the support of MPs on the intelligence and security committee, who claimed that establishing a single plane for the Prime Minister's use would be more secure than relying on whichever aircraft was available just before a trip.

But it was quietly dropped amid concerns about public reaction to the estimated £80m bill.

There were also suggestions that the Treasury had objected to the cost.

Downing Street now hopes the Blair Force One proposal can be made more palatable by linking it to a modernisation of provision for the Queen and her family.

Gershon, the businessman behind the government efficiency review that sounded the death knell for 80,000 civil service jobs, has been given the task of investigating an idea that could add hundreds of millions of pounds to the Treasury budget.

A Cabinet Office spokesman said Gershon would review "the current arrangements for the provision of air travel for the Royal Family, government ministers and accompanying senior officials, taking into account safety, reliability, security and value for money, and make recommendations for improvement". He is expected to present his report in the next few weeks.

"The Royal Family is very keen to press ahead with this, far more so than we are, but I think that it will happen," a senior minister said last week.

But the plan still faces some resistance within Blair's own Cabinet. A number of ministers fear using a dedicated aircraft could be a drain on their departmental budgets.

While Blair's trips are largely self-financing - through charges levied on the journalists accompanying his party to destinations including Washington and Moscow - other ministers would have trouble filling the plane for their less important missions abroad.

A seat on the Prime Minister's plane for the visits to Moscow, Berlin, Luxembourg and Paris last week cost £800.

One Cabinet minister confessed that the travel shake-up may be rushed through as it could prove too radical if delayed.

He said: "We'd prefer not to be ordering a fleet of aircraft just before an election."

Blair and his ministers have run up bills for tens of thousands of pounds for journeys on RAF jets from 32 (The Royal) Squadron, formerly known as The Queen's Flight. Ministers' use of the seven planes in the squadron rose to 140 flights last year, at a cost to the taxpayer of up to £1,600 an hour.

Last year, the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, and the agriculture secretary, Margaret Beckett, were the most regular ministerial customers for the squadron, which is based at RAF Northolt.

They ran up a bill of some £30,000 for at least 10 flights with the squadron.

Colleagues, including Blair himself, have spent similar sums on chartering private planes for trips abroad.

The Prime Minister normally uses a chartered British Airways Boeing 777 for long-haul journeys.

The existing fleet of 32 Squadron includes two 20-year-old BAe 146s, which can carry up to 23 people, and five much smaller Hawker S125s which the Royal Family share with ministers.

scotsman.co.uk

[LFFC]

I'm sure that the presentational difficulties of buying a Boeing 777 aircraft would be one step too far! How about an A380?

:p

[Tourist]

Of course he should have a proper aircraft, just like there should be a Royal Yacht. It is frankly appalling that one of the worlds largest economies can't support these basic trappings of power that are necessary in many parts of the world just to get respect from the Locals. For example anywhere in Africa/Persian Gulf/ South America. They all have private Boeings for their tin pot rulers, and without one we just look cheap. The days when our lot turned up off the coast in a floating palace were a lot easier on trade deals.

[Navaleye]

I thought the plan was to use one of the new A330 tankers for the job. Whats wrong with the VC10? If its safe enough for the crew to fly then its safe enough for him.

[Razor61]

I thought the plan was to use one of the new A330 tankers for the job. Whats wrong with the VC10? If its safe enough for the crew to fly then its safe enough for him.

Was watching an old episode of Airport the other day and they had Blair going out on a VC-10 from Heathrow. One american pilot was told to hold behind the "air force VC-10" and he couldn't believe VC-10s were still flying.

When it took off, there was a huge plume of smoke as is usual and it was the loudest jet to take off from Heathrow that day apart from the Concorde.....

Style :ok:

[West Coast]

I would be a little surprised at the choice of aircraft.

Hope they ban Charles from the flight deck.

[Razor61]

Blair currently uses a BA B777 on long haul trips. Apparently fitted out for his use when needed.
It was circulated last year or so that he would be using the same BA -777 but it would have a comms fit and all things 'AF1-ish' put in when needed.

[Impiger]

I've know the PM use a BA 767 as well but it certainly wasn't especially kitted out for him.

This debate always stalls on the cost. It has been shown time and time again that for essential travel either schedule or charter is more cost effective than ownership (although some sort of assured contract or PFI might bring the cost down). I had the honour (sic) of going on a No 10 chartered aircraft - in fact we were told we had to use it. The cost charged per seat to our budget was more than the BA flex business fare! Still getting in and out of the destination airfield was much slicker than travelling commercial.

[tablet_eraser]

I personally don't see a problem with providing a decent military ac for our Head of Government. Other countries manage it, but since we have such a massively depleted defence budget I can see why it hasn't happened. I've seen (US)AF1, CFC1, FAF1, RSF1, etc, transiting through our airspace carrying national leaders, whereas we seldom fly KRFxx with Blair on board to other countries. It's almost as if the RAF is deemed incapable of transporting our own PM, and I'd imagine that's how it appears to other contries when Blair steps off a BA ac at some military airfield wherever he happens to be visiting.

It's not right that Blair has to "borrow" ac from 32 Sqn or BA. I think the logical choice would be to augment 32 Sqn with a larger ac (B777 sounds fine) for long-haul trips by ministers and senior Royals, and assign it an RFR1 callsign. It strikes a better impression, it's more secure, and it's flown by a 100% dedicated organisation instead of a company which assigns priorities as it sees fit. I can, however, see Blair's vanity getting in the way. If he had the option, he'd probably try to form an RAF sqn specifically for diplos and politicos, leaving the unfashionable Royal Family, busy as they are, to cope with a few helos and some old BAe146s. Otherwise he'd contract ministerial travel to some bland civvy company, another slap in the face for the military.

This clearly needs more thought. And Blair should stop interfering and allow people who know what they're doing to take care of it. Why not give the MoD and FCO control of the issue, and order the Treasury to fund whatever proposals come out the other end?

Silly me - extra money for defence? :rolleyes:

[propulike]

Isn't this simply an admission from Downing Street that the RAF inventory is too old and too unreliable to be a feasible option?

Perhaps not having to travel in the aircraft those military blokes have to put up with will remove the embarrassment of having to be reminded first hand how things now are, along with not having to be flown by inexperienced pilots suffering at the end of an appallingly cut training system. If Blair Force One does come into existence, I'll wager real money that he tries to have it operated by a non-military organisation.

Me, I'd like to see £80m spent on ONE VC-10. A British aircraft, and the fastest airliner in the world ;)

[moggiee]

Let's hope that he at least has the decency to buy something with British wings, rather than indulging in Anglo-American arse kissing all the time.

[ZH875]

Let him travel in a STANDARD FIT C130K. If it's good enough for his troops, it should be good enough for him.

[tablet_eraser]

To be fair, we're not Blair's troops...

I totally agree with the idea that he should be flown in a British ac. Same as USAF1 is made by Boeing, FAF1 is made by Airbus.... so Blair gets to choose between the VC10 or (gulp) the Comet....

Actually, the Comet wouldn't be such a bad idea. Nimrod, as we know, has excellent comms capabilities, and if you remove all the MARINT equipment you have a robust airframe with enough space for a PM and his entourage.

So..... civvy company funded by PFI sounds like the way ahead?

[Magoodotcom]

In Australia, our 'VIP Flight' (34SQN) has 2 x B737-BBJ and 3 x Challenger 604s, all operated on a lease basis through (I believe) Qantas.

The BBJs are kitted out with all the necessary comms etc, and can cover just about anywhere on the globe with one stop.

The 604s look after most of the government's and military leadership's domestic travel.

All-in-all, a good and economical arrangement. :ok:

Magoo

[Mad_Mark]

Come on guys, open your eyes :ooh:

It's obvious really. He needs his own jet because the amount of defense cuts he is making there will soon be no RAF left, the RN will be a couple of pedellos in Hyde Park and the Army will be the dozen or so guards at the royal palaces :suspect:

MadMark!!! :mad:

[NURSE]

will it be available for the friday run out of Belfast city airport for all the ministers and civil servants who couldn't possible stay in Northern ireland? or will they be forced to use easy jet like the rest of us?

[XV277]

Don't forget the person who stopped using RAF VC10s as the PM transport was John Major, afetr he was embarassed at his old clunky, rear facing seated '10 being parked next to Clinton's nice shiny new VC25 at a summit or 'summat.

It's only in the UK that we could get into a political tizz about providing proper, military support to the head of State and the Head of Government. Can you imagine POTUS flying in a rented AA 777?

Have a couple of the A330s (or A340s) kitted out in VIP fit, and get some A319/ACJs for the short haul. Dunno what would replace the 125s 'cos The Uk don't build bizjets anymore.

Falcons anyone ;)

[MarkD]

XV277

a Bombardier Global Express would do the job for the 125s I think, especially since RAF is getting some anyway for ASTOR and Shorts Belfast does the mods. Some 319s to replace the 146 fleet and you're all set and in the CJ config could do some supply tasking as well.

Linking BF1 to the tanker order is important as it may be the necessary spur to get the process moving - remember the Aussies started their process after RAF and are receiving airframes sooner!

[XV277]

Linking BF1 to the tanker order is important as it may be the necessary spur to get the process moving - remember the Aussies started their process after RAF and are receiving airframes sooner!

Are they buying theirs or going for an HP agreement like we are?

Still think we'll end up buying them outright, like the C-17s

[BEagle]

The Aussies are buying theirs outright.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5098126.stm

Prime Minister Tony Blair is set to get the go-ahead later this month for two "Blair Force One" planes to fly him on official trips, the BBC has learned.

One is likely to be a long-haul plane with 70 seats, while a 15-seater jet will be ordered for shorter flights, BBC correspondent James Hardy says.
Since 1944 US presidents have had their own plane, known as Air Force One.
Until now the PM has chartered planes or used the ageing Queen's Flight to take him on official business.
The planes will not be bought outright, but taken on a long lease.
Queen's Flight
The Royal Family will also have use of the new aircraft. Like government departments, they will pay the full cost of travel - a similar arrangement to chartering and not just fuel and staffing costs.
The long-haul plane, which is likely to be wide-bodied, with a separate VIP area and kitted out for modern communications, will be used in place of the British Airways 777 currently chartered by Downing Street.
US presidents have had their own planes since 1944 when Franklin Roosevelt started using the "Sacred Cow".
The "Air Force One" call sign was used in the 1950s for the presidential plane but it was President Kennedy's aircraft which first made the name popular. President Bush uses two Boeing 747-200B planes with the "Air Force One" tag.

[giblets]

Great idea for a 777, lets have another type on squadron service, see if we can make things more complicated and expensive than they already are.

The obvious choice is to 'rent' of of the MRTT's that should be fitted out for RAF service anyway, and are apparently going to be rented out to holiday makers anyway, then maybe we can have 10 pemament MRTT's on hand instead of the 9 planned.

[Skunkerama]

Give him a Tornado, fit out the back seat to have a reclining bang seat and cocktail cabinet with a connection for his laptop. At least he would turn up to conferences with style a la James Bond. And also that Pig Cherie wouldnt be able to go and ruin the photo calls.

[bazilbutler]

Does anyone have photos of any of the aircraft mentioned? :8

[giblets]

Currently they are just talking about purchasing these, a long time before you will be able to photograph them (but probably a damn site sooner than aircraft we actually need (MRTT anyone?) come into service).

[airborne_artist]

Can't see them being crewed by serving RAF. Much more likely that the entire operation will be contracted.

[tonyosborne]

A 777 seems rather over the top, why not a couple of A319s and a Global Express or Gulfstream...

[Razor61]

we would need a E-777B to take all the defence staff around too don't forget :hmm:

ITV are currently reporting that the so called wide body replacement is now the BBJ not so wide body replacement.
Bet Bush had something to do with it....This is so when Blair gets parked up beside him in the VC-25 he can still look down instead of on par...

IMO...I reckon a B777 and Global Express in the colours of the current Tristar fleet would look superb.

[moosemaster]

I must admit to preferring the "add one to the fsta" contract option. At least that way something might actually get done and all the services could benefit from the money.

The only question I have is what defence suite is it going to have.

As an aside, I can't blame Blair for not wanting to travel around the world in any of our current fleets. Reliability is awful because the aircraft are so old and there just aren't the spares available.

[Green Flash]

Another C-17 might be an idea. Just trundle some palleted airline seats up the ramp a la the Yanks.

[Gainesy]

Apparently, both aircraft will be leased and both second-hand. Wonder if the DAS will be down to the levels of the AT/SH fleets? Somehow I doubt it.:mad:

[Brewster Buffalo]

...They all have private Boeings for their tin pot rulers, and without one we just look cheap.....
OK we will have one for our tinpot leader too :)

[NURSE]

ah well we've got 2 Jags so President Blair can be 2 Jets

Why does Blair need a Jet to go to Washington I thought He'd be able to walk there

[Zoom]

Nice of His Majesty to let The Queen use it when he - or Cherie - doesn't need it.

[buoy15]

Razor
Not so sure it's a Jumbo, but it is wide bodied - this allows Prescott and all the other lardy's to sit in comfort with their bulging allowance packages
Bet they don't double up in the portacabins when they get there - eeerrm - or perhaps they do!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[old developer]

I am sure I saw a Chipmunk parked at a little know Wiltshire airbase yesterday....Would fit the bill perfectly

[BEagle]

Should be an A319CJ plus an A330 if anyone had any sense...


And a Chinook for 'Two Shags'!

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Having owned a (teeny tiny) aeroplane before I have to say I learned two things:

(1) The thre Fs - If it flies floats or F:mad: s, it's cheaper to rent it

(2) The two happiest days in the life of an airplane owner are the day you by it, and the day you sell it

[6foottanker]

So which budget is the money for this coming from? If it's the RAF pot, then why not put it towards a VIP fit? But in these days of scrimp and save, why have that service for anyone other than the top royals. If it's from the MPs expenses fund, then surely hiring 2 jets indefinitely is far more expensive than "Crab Air", or even 1st class on a scheduled airline every trip.

I'm just getting the feeling that Blair knows he's on the way out, and is just making the most of his power before he goes. Which sucks, cos Labour were always the alternative to well paid, high brow conservatives who always did exactly what "New" Labour are doing now. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely......

Get rid, and put in someone who realises that you can't get something for nothing where the Armed Forces are concerned.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[cornwallis]

No one has mentioned that the 319 and 330 can be flown by the same crew using the airbus common cockpit qualification(CCQ).That is probably far too logical for any civil servant!:}

[Low Flier]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/06/21/matt.gif

[flipster]

Good 'un - I laffed lots!

[Smudger552]

so...with the new Blairforce one & two, what happens to 32 (The Spoiled) Sqn?:E

[BellEndBob]

No matter what is eventually ordered Blair won't get to fly in it as he will be long gone.
Why the **** should'nt our PM travel in style? Love em or hate em, they are representing GB and we should fly the flag.

The Queens Birthday Flypast was seen as a great event, and indeed was. Lots of praise about the UK at it's best etc. Our PM, whoever he/she is, arriving on foreign soil in a dedicated aircraft reflecting our 'world' standing should be seen as no different.

[Colonal Mustard]

i wouldnt moan if it was maggie in the eighties........she earned it, but i sure as heck am gonna object to blair the little t**t

[Always a Sapper]

Let him travel in a STANDARD FIT C130K. If it's good enough for his troops, it should be good enough for him.
Noooo way they'll do that, that gert big door at the back is far to great a temptation.... :suspect:
ALM drops ramp to improve the view and hangs on, tells the 'SLF' they can wander around... Driver tries to break the Lightning climb record .... :E :E :E

[Razor61]

Donald Rumstit travels in style when visiting Iraq and Afghanistan. He goes in a C-17A. I Remember a news story when he was first travelling to Iraq in a C-17 to meet troops in 2003. He didn't look very happy but he has since travelled in it a good few times.

The news story (Can't find it now) was stating that he was not happy with travelling in a military transport plane and wanted something a bit more jazzy like a C-32 or C-37 etc but the C-17 had all the kit fitted (Flares, Rcvrs etc) for such missions.
He, and Condi were seen also having a nice dinner with the C-17 crew of such a mission...in Bagram i think so he must of cheered up a bit since.....:rolleyes:

[Zoom]

Well spotted, Low Flier. You have also realised that Matt read my post #34 of yesterday!

[MarkD]

I suspect Matt was thinking more of Prince Charles' diary entry coming back from the handover of Hong Kong.

[endplay]

See CBN 06-06 Royal & Ministerial Transport for the latest on this. The dept of Transport will run the show with 32(The Royal) sqn no longer involved in non operational Royal or ministerial flights. From the tone of the CBN it seems the announcement caught us on the back foot.

(Sorry but I don't do links and the CBN was too big to paste)