Combined aviation union meetings Mon 27/6

[Duff Man]

Australian Services Union (http://asuservices.labor.net.au/news/campaigns/20050624_Aviation.html) have issued a bulletin (see link) have announced brief meetings on Monday to "discuss the unprecedented attack by the Howard Government on your rights at work" at the following locations:
Sydney - 11am T3
Melbourne - 11am International terminal
Brisbane - 11am Qantas Domestic
Adelaide 1pm
Perth 7am domestic, 12 noon international
Regionals - ask your union for details

The ACTU (http://actu.asn.au/work_rights/get_involved/) has a list of activities for the "National Week of Action for the Your Rights"

Which unions have asked workers to go?

[flyingfox]

Trust the ACTU with rights? They stood by and watched their own movement go down the gurgler under Hawke because their leadership all wanted to be in the Parliament. They helped the 89 Pilots to go under too. If you want help with workers conditions or 'rights' then try somewhere else! :suspect:

[slice]

Hopefully the ASU, being a broad brush type union, will look out for the common good rather than being Labour stooges.

[elektra]

Read no further than Flying Fox's words. The ACTU rolled over so often when its former leader was PM and Mr. W. Kelty (whatever happened to him?) was Secretary.

Sadly their support for strikebreaking by the government (use of the military, fast tracking foreign import pilots, financial support for the airlines, outrageous media attacks, threatening letters sent to pilots homes, support for legal action over "illegal" industrial action etc) was in no way the least of the ways that the fat cats aided and abetted the demise of not just the labour movement but in doing so the significant subersion of the Australian economy.

And lets not forget that the bottom line of the Kelty-Hawke-Abeles "Axis of Evil" was of course the ultimate demise of the 4 airlines involved, with massive job losses. Their actions were not only unconsionable, but useless and destructive!

If a Liberal government tried on even half of what happened to the workers under Hawke, there'd be an insurrection.

[Sunfish]

Hence my famous law: "Governments achieve the reverse of what they say they are doing"

I don't think any Liberal Government has ever jailed a unionist. Labor has.

I don't think any Liberal government has successfully broken a strike, like the pilots strike either.

My prediction is therefore that Howards watering down of labour laws will actually reinvigorate and strengthen trade unionism.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Agreed sunfish...between the greed of CEOs and stupidty of Politicians I think it's highly likely we'll see a return to strong unionism...despite whatever anti strike laws the latter might try and pass on behalf of their mates in the former category...and when the ****e hits the fan industrially they'll have no-one else to blame but themselves.

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Rally together, get the SBU back it's the only way to break to 3% bullsh!t barrier.

I've said it to the boys at work
"It's a big tug o war and if you don't bring a few heavyweight mates your outta your league"

Let's look at the line up

ASU / AWU - no bags or pax get in, no bookings made

TWU - nothing moves period (gotta love the radicals)

AMWU / AWU / ETU - no repairs no how

ALAEA - nothing signed out, nothing flies

FAAA - no pax service.

Pilots - plane no fly no where no how

Apologies for any I've left out, but can you see

We've got it and them scun if we just stick together

Union, united we will never be defeated

Roll on, roll on, roll on, roll on........................................:ok:

[Captain Sand Dune]

More like "dream on, dream on, dream on".

Sorry to sound so cynical, but we're our own worst enemies.

[Ultralights]

based on past experience, chances of getting the unions to agree on anything

SFA!

[Smrt Srbia]

You say :

unprecedented attack by the Howard Government on your rights at work

What rights ?

To bludge off and get away with it, and not ever get sacked ?

I say "Go Johnny Go" and down to all unions.

I spent a few weeks working in a highly unionised workplace and the bludgers were getting away with murder.

Like why do you need an extra 10 minutes to wash your hands and go to the toilet before smoko starts ? Its a bloody joke.

How can this be good for a company or the country ?

I believe Howard is doing what is best for country. He knows what he is doing and his economic track record speaks for itself.

United, United you WILL be defeated.
United, United, you HAVE BEEN defeated.

Howard controls the senate, the reforms will take place and nothing you can do about it. And as a result of the reforms, the Australian economy will improve.

So just admit defeat now, don't waste your resources and don't continue to make a bad name for yourself.

[Uncommon Sense]

You idiot.

Howard says: Lost days to Industrial Action ALREADY at their lowest.

Howard says: Productivity in Australian Industry ALREADY at it's highest.

Howard says: Unemployment ALREADY at historical low.

So, WHY the need for this legislation?

None - except deep seated ideaology, supported by corporate greed, and barracked on the sidelines by the facist ignorami such as the previous poster.

When the Liberal Party was first formed it was along the philosophical lines of SMALLER government, interfering LESS on individuals and REDUCING taxes. Looks like that has all gone by the by as well.

What a disgrace - and there are STILL idiots barracking for this lot? Sadly pathetic.

[Duff Man]

On Sunday, our esteemed democratically elected leader said:

"I will never want it said of a government I lead that it missed the opportunity of a majority in the Senate to do some things that we could never otherwise do without that majority,"

and that the changes are "not because we hate the trade unions … millions of trade unionists voted for this party and this Government at the last election,"

and that the voters expect government "to legislate for things that we believe in."

(SMH link (http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2005/06/26/1119724531121.html) to full article)

These are the words of a fascist. Pure and simple.

But the ALP, unions have turned to softcox
http://smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/06/28/union_narrowweb__200x197,1.jpg

[Smrt Srbia]

I much rather support facism then socialism/communism/unionism.

"Go Johnny GO GO GO"

Why the need for legislation ?

To make things even better, and better than the ALP ever could.

Why does he keep on getting re-elected all the time ? Obviously the majority support him.

The idiots must be the minority that don't support him.

United, United, YOU HAVE been defeated.

Just admit it.

[tobzalp]

I think that Johnny knows what will and will not get him reelected. i have a feeling that being over the top in workplace relations (if he does it) will get the party outed. I think they will focus more on the small fish and avoid anything that will raise the anger of the vocal unions.

[Uncommon Sense]

Smrt Srbia - I much rather support facism

Just goes to prove two things:

1. We get the government we deserve

2. It must be school holidays somewhere

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Smrt Srbia - obviously latin for f@ckw!t, crawl back under your rock, parasite

Time to stand on your own two feet, people

Remember righteous good is the equal of fascist evil

It's going to be a hard four years

[Turbo 5B]

Why did people vote for Howard?
Same reason as people speed in the wet.
Stupidity, and they don't think that they'll get hurt.
You need training and a licence to drive a car, but you don't need political education and a licence to vote.

[jack red]

Why did people vote for Howard?


There was no alternative. The Labour party and it's Union cronies are as much to blame for this debacle as the Liberals.

John Howard is a great leader and the Liberal Party are organised with good policies and runs on the board. Get ready for many years of Liberal/National Party rule in this country.

As for the other mob, get yourself a decent leader and some positive policies and you just may be able to compete.:mad:

[Uncommon Sense]

John Howard is a great leader and the Liberal Party are organised with good policies and runs on the board

http://www.mercola.com/images/newsletter/2005/04/02/laughing_cat.jpg

The first sign of absolute loss of touch with society is when these facist pricks start to beleive their own publicity

[Ultralights]

could you imagine Latham running the show now ???

[ratpoison]

Uncommon sense,

Bloody classic post my friend. Came home from a long flight and rolled all over the floor with that statement and picture. Thanks for the laugh. It's so fitting.

Rat

[pullock]

I am an engineer.

If my union cared at all about me - the ALAEA, then I would support them back - but they don't. All they want to do is feather their own nests and take the easy path.

Because of this trend union membership has lost it's meaning, and is incapable of fighting the workplace changes that the Howard Government is going to put in place that favor employers - especially aviation employers.

The best example of this is the ALAEA, which abandoned it's majority membership at Jetstar during the recent EBA by simply not representing them.

The union movement is a spent force I'm afraid.

[Truth Seekers Int'nl]

i remeber in 1989 a labour pm by the name of Bob Hawke was telling everybody how good individual contracts were and Billy Kelty and his union thugs were all agreeing with him.........welcome to the revolution girls and boys !!!.........revolution...........cos what goes around comes around..little Johnny H has got the goods and the support of the australian electorate.........so it's goodnight nurse from today. only chance is if someone hass the balls to cross the floor........can't see it happening...yep the union movement is a spent force until it's Labour Party can get some sort of respect and credibility.............and that's a long way off from where i stand.

[Turbo 5B]

Pullock..just a point about the ALAEA and unionism. The alaea is an association and it's biggest problem is that it is organised by people that are paid by companies and not by the members. This leaves decision making and advising up to people that have to look at their own welfare first instead of the big picture of all the membership. If the executive that runs the alaea was independant of large companies (Qantas in particular) you would find much better representation.
Look at the structure of the larger unions. The executive members are paid by the members of the union and are therefore accountable to the members. There is much less room for corruption.
And if an official of a larger union even thought along the lines of this quote from the Alaea's new assistant federal secretary let alone put them down on an official union web site he would be sacked.

Trustee1
Site Admin


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 121


PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Clearly then you have no desire to remain "informed" but choose rather to wollow in an environment of self pity and speculation.

Perhaps the only thing that will convince you is the disappearance of heavy maintenance from the airline scene and maybe then YOU can have the piric pleasure of sitting back and saying I told you so while the employees do battle with the reintroduced Transmission of Business clause that took so much work to have removed.

We don't have that luxury its about trying to protect jobs (especially those in marginal areas of the operation) above all else and O/T banking and no transmission of business does that for the time being at least.


No one has a crystal ball to forsee the future but surely a future without a Tansmission of Business clause is better than one that has it included.

Certainly Heavy Maintenance is balanced on a knife edge and which way it falls will only been seen in time but what is certain is that if it is to survive at all it must be able to sell its product intenationally and with its current cost base it cannot do that. If it can't then it and its workers may need the safety of the absence of a transmission of busines provision.

Many LAME's have more than 15 years service so you do the maths and figure out how much money they are gambling with.

Let us hope they never get to find out the hard way.

O/T banking doesn't work in Line because of the crew structuring and the smaller amounts of manpower available on any particular day but in heavy all the people are there all the time irrespective of if an aircraft is in the docking.

Even so it's VOLUNTARY (i.e. no complusion to join)

Much of the difficulty surrounding the airline and its employees is that for the most part they are long serving individuals who have only worked for one employer maybe two (probably both airlines) in their working life. This has led to a workforce that is well insulated from the real world and what it takes in society to earning what most LAME's earn.

Yes were "earn" it but can we achieve it outside.

Maybe you should give it a try sometime and check the job ads.

I don't see too many jumping ship to better paid private sector or non airline jobs do you?

So wallow if you will in your desires and your infalted opinions of what you believe you are "worth" the pilots thought that they were irreplaceable too and they had a labor government in power.

How many of them are back in the industry locally?

Perhaps what we need is a face to face education in the ramifications of the Workplace Relations Act to bring some reality back into the workplace I only hope that everyone is still here to see the new world order.

[flugenluft]

I have a job with a company that makes a profit, I am paying a house off at an affordable interest rate and 'economic refugees' have been stopped at the border.

I painfully remember what it was like under Labor so I will therefore not vote for them. They have been shown over many years to be absolutely useless with the national purse.

[jack red]

Hear ! Hear ! :ok:

[rudderless1]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Australia-chalks-up-record-trade-deficit/2005/05/31/1117305611401.html?oneclick=true


You may be able to pay your mortgage now but for how long? What does our country still produce? What are our technical industries? How safe is your job, when will the dollar plumet again?Will it only then be the time people realise we've all been conned? For the greed of a few, we are being successfully deskilled and devalued, our standards reduced.

Where is your food coming from, how is it grown, how can we compete in this theory of a level playing field.

we are becoming owned by others by selling ourselves.

Johnny Howard????? Labors no better. But does it mean we have to sell what fair and right, please wake up.

$424billion debt, 43 consecutive trade deficits, wow that's well managed?

[Captain.Q]

Labour introduced compulsory superannuation,floated the Australian Dollar,deregulated the banking industry,lowered tarriffs.In general made Australia more competitive.A drovers dog could run the Australian economy and still look good.Little Johnny is a politician,not an ideas man and certainly not a statesman.Merely an opportunist.
I am not committed to any party.I vote for the party with the best platform and the party that will do the least damage.In this case it was the Libs.I voted for them but I don`t like them.I could not contemplate Australia being run by A Labour party bereft of ideas and lead by Mark Latham.
Australia does not operate in a vaccuum.What happens in the rest of the world affects us.When interest rates were high under labour...they were high everywhere else.
Let me be clear...history will not be kind to John Winston Howard.He has created a divided Australia that functions on greed and selfishness.He has created the working poor.There is still some 20% of Australians living on or below the poverty line.
The Libs are a minority government....46% of the electorate voted for them.The other 54% voted for someone else or did not vote at all.
Little Johhny is not a leaders boot lace..A good/ great leader would not have put us in Iraq.The Libs always follow the US into pointless wars...remember "all the way with LBJ"...Vietnam.Holt put us there...Labour got us out.

[jack red]

The Libs are a minority government....

Yep, with a majority in both houses ! How do you figure Capt Q ?

As for history, well only time will tell, but let me be clear. We are a lot better off with John Howard and Peter Costello at the helm than Kim Beazley & Wayne Swann, IMO , of course.;)

[Turbo 5B]

Well, so far in the great debate it looks as though Captain Q and Rudderless have put the more comprehensive argument forward.
Long live good debate!

[speedbirdhouse]

Fluenluft's post in a perfect example of the legacy John Howard will leave.

A society with people driven by fear, ignorance, self interest and greed.

Does anybody REALLY believe that the Howard government are responsible for Australia's historically low interest rates????

Low interest rates are [for the uninformed] a WORLDWIDE trend.

Last time rates were at the levels seen in the UK Winston Churchill was their Prime Minister.

As far as OECD/developed countries are concerned our rates are some of the highest in the world.

The next generation of workers will bear the brunt of the howard legacy with fear and uncertainty in the workforce, casualisation, offshoring and the like.

To what end? So that big business can pay their senior execs. MORE in the way of performance bonuses?

My kids deserve better than this.

[Ultralights]

as a Business owner, and full time employee again in an engineering field, a Home owner, and investment property owner, and negotiating a 44 acre property, i will always vote Libs!

and yes, i started with Nothing as a QF apprentice..


as for the govt deskilling and dumbing down.... get off your arse, and get an education that is usefull! , there are plenty of tafe colleges everywhere, with business courses, investing courses, go and buy some books and read up on whatever you desire to improve your skill base!

no one else is going to help you but yourself! especially not the govt!

Under this lib govt, my business has been booming! paying low taxes,and life is good....except for living in this communist Labour tax grabbing useless govt in the state of NSW.. and when things do turn sour, and they will, eventually, i will be protected.. just read up on a smart guy named Warren Buffet and you will know what i mean. ( a recession proof business)

im doing too many things at once here, so ill stop my incomprehencible ramble...

[Uncommon Sense]

Ultralights,

I actually agree with some of what you say.

Especially that nobody should expect anything from the government - this used to be the Liberal Philosophy - so why have we got the biggest government ever, interfering more than ever whilst owning less state assets than ever before? It is absolutley criminal, and flies in the face of the spirit of the Liberal Party's original core values.

The economic prosperity you enjoy is really to do with the reforms of Keating - Howard has ridden it but has not capitalised on it. In effect he squandered and plundered for political gain, but no gain to the good of the country.

Buffetology is pretty hard to apply to the liquidity of the Australian sharemarket - so I will assume you are investing offshore - how is your growth there a reflection of good domestic policy?

I don't beleive Labor have all the answers either - but you don't know much about living under communism if you equate them to that.

There are some in their that foster the better values from socialism, granted - and frankly the country need some social fostering right now.

The incumbents have gone too far - and you are really kidding yourself if you think we are paying low taxes!!

[Ultralights]

The rules of Mr Buffet can easily be applied to most areas of peoples professions, not just investing, and if you do spend the time to study the Australian sharemarket, you will find quite a few nuggets, so far my super fund has returned just over 35% for the past 2 yrs, and that with just 2 purchases, AMP and SGB, amp bought as they sold off the loss making UK divisions, the core business in Oz was unchanged and finacially sound, and SGB during the NAB selloff, again same rules, SGB's business is cnsistantly growing and totally unnaffected by the NAB selloff- except share price.. as they say, you make money when you buy, not sell.

as for Buffets rules in other areas, my business is in Transport, a vital industry for any country in any political or economic climate, and again within that, specialising in the Music industry, which has its ups and downs, but over a small range depending on economic climate, people will always be listening to the radio, and buying music weather in boom times or recession..

Sadly i feel the the govt of the time is a reflection of the communities fears and ideas, Yes, the Liberal government Used to be for less govt control, but with society forever giving up its responibilty, thereby forcing in a sence, the govt to take over that responibility, the explosion of litigation is direct proof of that, and hence, rules are changed and laws written to prevent thurther acts of stupidity and people refusing to take responibility for their own actions within the society! as far as im concerned, no matter what govt is in power, this will not change, untill the community does.

as for the communist State Govt, this is directly related to me being forced to pay ever increasing Land taxes, at a rate of land value that is grossly overestimated, by the govt, to pay for the tax breaks of the first home buyer!
and bob carr directly interviening in what should essentially be a free market, with land tax and vendor duty, so that the low income/first home buyer can afford to enter the artificially deflated property market!

...... and screw the people that have worked their arse off to invest in their future, their retirement, and their families future... Bob Carr better prey i never meet him in public!

as for low taxes, a good accountant is worth his weight in gold! pay yourself the minimum required to stay just below the tax free threshold, approx $12k Pa. A company has the advantages of buying with pre tax dollars, and only pays the tax at 1 time of the fin year, except GST credit. at approaching end of fin year, the company goes shopping to lower its taxable profit, bigger newer truck/s, newer more prestige company car/s, in some case, an increase in staff wages, bigger super contributions, bigger property investment, etc etc

never skimp on paying a good accountant!

[rudderless1]

Greed greed greed, pay no tax, screw the community, the environment, education, roads, hosipitals what a great attitude and one that is becoming more and more common.

Is this what we are to become, just like the yanks, screwing everyone else by hook or by crook to make sure we have it all at whatever cost. No wonder the world is f'd, what is the g8 all about? F'n paper shufflers who screw people that actually work and produce something. Is that right !

Where not all given the same opportunity,some get the car, some a deposit on their first house, some their first house, some have kids some don't, some give, some have drugo's for parents, some don't have food on the table thru no fault of their own, some are not just driven by the bull#### $. Some that are and make it their job to screw those that are not. Some want to do their bit some don't.

The point being Australia was a much nicer place, whant the divide between the rich and poor was not so great, when we all mingled somewhat more, when public transport worked, hosipitals had 1st class staff and people had a barbie and a beer.

What are we achieving by screwing one another, the economy is no better in fact worse, conditions are reducing, more people are shuffling paper rather than actually doing something. Yet the government is now reeping more taxes than ever before, managers are paid to manipulate their bonus's, if they can't they get a mamouth payout anyway (amp for example)

No one is talking communism, just common sense. Young people need direction and opportunity to be a valuable part of the community, not everything can be done at TAFE, and TAFE locations have been centralised for many courses i,e once local are now only available in one or two locations (funnily enough alot of trade skills we are now short of)

Money, luck and location some have it, education and health everyone should have a right to it. Empathy and fairness we all should have it!

[Uncommon Sense]

Ultralights

Once again, to my surprise, I agree with most of what you wrote in that last post.

Like you I am pissed at the NSW Govt land tax setup - but I believe it will be shortlived. Neither party will take it as a policy to the next election.

Also like you I work around the tax system - but thats just it - we are working around it because it is inequitable to start with.

[Duff Man]

rudderless yes the Americans have a huge gulf between the rich and poor, and they're vehemently anti-communist, BUT the US rich individuals and coporates are strong followers of benevolence, putting our rich to shame.

You think our local land taxes are bad? Go to the US. Some friends have a largeish family house in suburban New Jersy and pay about USD18,000 pa in local land taxes.

those like ultralights can never understand why there are people who don't have the opportunity to "make it" for themselves and it is impossible to convince them otherwise. Ultralights, this is what is known as narrowmindedness.

There are people who make it through luck.
There are people who make it through hard work.
There are people who make it by screwing others.
There are people who get screwed.
There are people who don't, can't, or don't know how to work hard.
There are people who are just damned unlucky.

Good government considers all of those.

[Ultralights]

i started with nothing! not 1 cent from parents or any other source, nor with mark in high school to go to university. left school in yr 12 and got an apprenticeship with QF, and worked from there, i didnt spend money on booze, or nice clothes, or weekend trips away. i didnt go and buy nice cars with my new secure income, i worked my arse off, saved a deposit for a house,and educated myself in what would be relevent in the real world to make a tidy living, you can do tafe courses and Uni courses by corrospondence!


instead of buying a bottle of scotch or a case of beer for the weeknd, go and buy a book on running small businesses, books on options trading, and share investing, from reputablel proven mentors like warren buffet, Benjamin graham, buy a book on good management, one day you might need to employ somone!

as i said before, the education is out there, its called a library, no one else will help you, least of all any government!

if i can do it, anyone can! no excuses! its a simple thing called will power, and positive thinking!

[Uncommon Sense]

Ultralights,

Yes - but this thread is about preventing a government with no mandate to do so, making conditions tougher than they need to be - when there is no need other than an idealogical one to do so.

As I stated before:

Howard says: Lost days to Industrial Action ALREADY at their lowest.

Howard says: Productivity in Australian Industry ALREADY at it's highest.

Howard says: Unemployment ALREADY at historical low.

So, WHY the need for this legislation?


I think the real answer is in the make up of John Howard, and his total dominance of an unrecognisable Liberal Party. It is little surprise there has never been as much criticism of the Liberal Party from it's long term members as has been the case in the past 2 years.

There is only really one Minister in cabinet these days.

The Dear Leader. Kim Il John.

[duknweev]

Ultralights: "It's all about ME"!

(sigh)

[Turbo 5B]

Ultralights... Is there a place in this world for people such as me that simply wish to do their job to the best of their ability and get a decent renumeration for it?
I'm not asking to take over the world or become the Boss. I don't want to run a business. If I did run a business I would have to employ people like me. i.e there is a great need for people that work reliably that don't wish to crawl their way to the top.
Hell why dont we all pack work in and buy shares and live off the dividends? Because if we all did that there would be no one making the companies that we invested in work.
As a self made person that owns a business and land and shares it's in your best interest to screw wage rates down to increase your personal wealth.
You probably enjoy doing that..you're entitled to live that way..good for you.
Myself....I just want to get on with earning a living and spending time with my family and watching them grow. I want to do this without having the constant stress from a government that wants to give more to the business owners that they represent all in the name of productivity.
And without the stress of a company that strives to give shareholders money for nothing by taking it out of my pocket.
(Can I have a payrise this year? No because we made a profit. We must give all of that profit to people that own shares in the company and don't actually lift a finger to make that money.)
It's all about me.

[jack red]

Yes - but this thread is about preventing a government with no mandate to do so,

Don't you just love these left wing, pinkos in self denial. :mad:

Hello...anyone home? Majority in both houses delivered by the Australian electorate at the last election ! :ugh: