RAF Hunters - 45 and 58 Sqns

[StuartP]

Can anyone shed any light on this please ? My 1976 RAF Yearbook contains the following statement:

"38 Group....Also maintained at Wittering is a Wing of Hunter strike fighters, used manly for keeping a pool of experienced strike pilots at operational pitch but also available for operations if necessary. The Squadrons in the Wing are Nos 45 and 58..."

Does anybody have any more information on these 2 squadrons ? Was this "pool of experienced pilots" there as a reserve, or were the squadrons a way of keeping staff officers current ? I know the 1976 RAF was a very different to today's service, but this 'reserve' sounds a bit unusual to me.

Any information/anecdotes gratefully received.

Thanks,

Stuart.

[BEagle]

I was the last pilot ever posted to a non-TWU RAF Hunter Sqn when I was posted to 58 Sqn at Wittering in 1976. Arrived, then went on leave. Came back only to find out that the Sqn's disbandment had been brought forward by 6 months, so they decided that it was best for me to return to Brawdy and hold with Standards Sqn whilst waiting for another posting.... Sold the MG Midget in which I'd had to make 2 trips from Brawdy to Wittering to ferry my belongings - in those days singlies were entitled to f*** all - and bought a Fiat 128 Sport Coupe for the trip back to Brawdy!

The 45/58 Hunter Wing had a mix of experienced Hunter pilots, plus the odd Hunter QFI and QWIs and some inexperienced JPs. But they also had the best maintained, virtually pristine Hunter F(GA) Mk 9s in the RAF. As well as an excellent wing spirit. They did much the same job as 100 Sqn do now.

Even though I never flew 45/58's aircraft at Wittering, I certainly did when they were handed over to Brawdy.

[StuartP]

Thanks BEagle ! Funnily enough I thought you might know the answer, and I nearly posted it on the Mil. forum.

1976 was the first year I ever saw an air display (RAF Finningley, I was 8 years old) and my dad bought me the RAF Yearbook. I had a full set up until 1982, when they... erm... disappeared during a "tidy your room or I'll tidy it for you" row. I found a nearly complete set in a second hand bookshop in York earlier this week, so now I'm wallowing in nostalgia and actually reading them instead of just looking at the pictures !

Cheers !

Stuart.

[WebPilot]

Of the RAF Yearbook, I first bought a copy in 1970 at the Alconbury airshow as a nipper and recall sitting in the car reading it while the rain beat down on the car roof...

I've bought it every year since and currently have the series complete from 1968 to date. Which I mention for no good reason, but hope you enjoy reading the ones from York, Stuart!

However I do find reading the current editions slightly depressing with the thin content compared with those of 30 years ago.

[StuartP]

It's not just me then. The newer ones do seem to be heavy on style and a bit thin on content. Or maybe we're just getting older and more cynical / less easily impressed ?

[Gainesy]

heavy on style and a bit thin on content.

A reflection of today's RAF, sadly.

[pr00ne]

The RAF Yearbook used to be published by the RAF, a good range of articles from the serving folk and others...........
The rag out today is a different kettle of fish as it is published by the mob who do the IAT programes and is largely enthusiasts.


Interstingly enough I was headed for 45 Sqn from the mighty Toom when I parted company with the RAF, a year or two before BEagle got there, but I was under the impression that the wing was originally set up to generate sufficient single seat GA guys for the forthcoming Jag fleet and to give those who had not quite made the grade some additional hours before trying again.

[BEagle]

Correct on all counts, pr00ne!

[teeteringhead]

FWIW the following details are from the 1980 edition of "The Squadrons of the RAF":

No 45 Sqn On 1 Aug 72, No 45 reformed at West Raynham for ground-attack training duties with Hunters, moving to Wittering in Sep of the same year. On 4 Jun 76, the Sqn disbanded.

No 58 Sqn On 1 Aug 73, No 58 was reformed at Wittering from No 45 Sqn. Equipped with Hunters, the sqn's task was operational training for Jaguar ground-attack pilots. It disbanded on 4 Jun 76.

These entries would imply that 2 small sqns were formed from a larger one, and that the roles were (ever so slightly) different.

[BEagle]

I arrived at Wittering on 16 May 76 (lovely sunny day) and was immediately whisked off to a party in one of the pilot's OMQ. Then went on 2 weeks leave - came back and found that we were due to disband in a week. :{

So back I went to Brawdy on 28 June; the 45/58 aircraft arrived a few days later.

[Archimedes]

Is it correct that the formation of 58 Sqn out of 45 didn't actually represent an increase in the number of Hunters in use and that the squadrons were, in effect, each the same size as a flight? I've read this a couple of times, but have never been quite certain.

As an aside, the 'cunning plan' as late as 1970 was for 74 Squadron to be the first Hunter unit at Wittering. Once the task with the Hunter was complete, so the plan said, 74 would reform on either the Phantoms or Buccaneers that were being released from RN service with the demise of the Ark Royal .

[pr00ne]

Both squadrons had an identical role, led by squabbling bleeders under a Wg Cdr OC Hunter Wing. 8 FGA9 and a T7 per Sqn was what I was led to believe they had, though as I said I never actually got to be a staff pilot there.

[StuartP]

Thanks gentlemen, much appreciated.

Stuart.

[hairyclameater]

I think they had a lot more than that allocation pr00ne, I certainly remember seeing at least 4 different 45 sqn T7s and "loads" of single seaters, but then I was only 10 and memory fades...
bizarre to think that in 1972 with the "space age" Jag and MRCA just around the corner and with the (then) new F4K and Harrier in service, 2 new Hunter squadrons were being formed and the Shack had re-entered front line use!
I also seem to recall that 58 went on until 22 July 76 with a massed (10 a/c) arrival at the TWU. Certainly 45 & 58 both had a jet at the Hunter meet at IAT in July '76
Got some piccies somewhere, only of individual jets though if you'd like to see.

[BEagle]

Are you sure that the 10-ship ever actually happened? I was at Brawdy when they brought the jets over, bon't don't recall seeing more than a 4-ship?

Very nicely maintained jets they were too - until the Brawdy blacksmiths took them on charge.

[StuartP]

Hairyclameater - yes please, I'd love to see them. Can you post them on here ? I can PM you my e-mail address if not.

Thanks,

Stuart.

[hairyclameater]

Think a 10 ship was planned, it may have departed Wittering only to descend into the eternal clag of South Wales (even in 76! ;) )and broke up or even rtb! Soo long ago now and I was very young...:(
You're right about the finish of them - immaculate, must have been the TWU's matt finish that made them look so grubby.

StuartP- will have a dig, but it wont be quick, will post here if thats ok with everyone.

[treadigraph]

Yes please, Hunter pics always a treat!

[pr00ne]

Hairyclameater,

They may well indeed have had more than the 8+1, as I said I never actually got to the Squadron, my info came from a brief telephone chat with one of the Flt Cdr’s on 45.
You are spot on about the odd reformation antics of the early 70’s. In addition to the Hunter wing and the AEW Shacks we had additional Canberra squadrons reforming to replace the Target facilities civvies on the CAACUs, it was strange to see this procession of squadron reformations on these classic types in the 70’s!