747 engine failure and landing at VABB

[Analyser]

A 747 Just touched down in Mumbai due to an engine failure.It was operating with an Alitalia(Alitalia 6030)callsign but had a US registration and an atlas air logo on the fuselage.
It was a failure of the No 4 Engine.Great job done by the crew as it was raining in Mumbai due to onset of the monsoon with RVR of 1400 and wet and slippery runway conditions.Winds were 180 at 19 Kts.(Rwy in use was 27)
Not too sure when the failure occured but there were maintaining FL290 and requested landing at Mumbai.
Clicked some snaps of the landing and will try to upload it.

Another day at the office.

[daidalos]

It cannot be only an engine failure!
So urgent that they had to try to land in rain and crosswind?
Or do they have a base there?

[sky9]

It was US registered which means that it had to land ASAP, otherwise there would be another thread on PPRuNe.

[Heilhaavir]

Sky9, since when does a 3 or 4 eng aircraft have to land ASAP after one eng failure in the US?

Sec. 121.565 Engine inoperative: Landing; reporting.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, whenever an engine of an airplane fails or whenever the rotation of an engine is stopped to prevent possible damage, the pilot in command shall land the airplane at the nearest suitable airport, in point of time, at which a safe landing can be made.
(b) If not more than one engine of an airplane that has three or more engines fails or its rotation is stopped, the pilot in command may proceed to an airport that he selects if, after considering the following, he decides that proceeding to that airport is as safe as landing at the nearest suitable airport:
(1) The nature of the malfunction and the possible mechanical difficulties that may occur if flight is continued.
(2) The altitude, weight, and usable fuel at the time of engine stoppage.
(3) The weather conditions en route and at possible landing points.
(4) The air traffic congestion.
(5) The kind of terrain.
(6) His familiarity with the airport to be used.
may proceed to an airport that he selects

[M609]

Since this pprune 1. May (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173143&highlight=engine+failure+british+airways)

[Heilhaavir]

Still doesn't change the FAR M609... I'm sure BA told the FAA to reread their regs :)

[Zoner]

Most outfits flying that area carry Mumbai or Colombo as an en-route alternate. If you are headed east to Dubai or west to Bangkok there really aren’t a lot of suitable airports to choose from. Maintenance probably has a say in it also. As far as landing in the rain and wind that’s what we get paid for.

[moosp]

Not quite on thread, but I'll make the point anyway.

Another example of the AWTH (accident waiting to happen) in modern aviation. "After the landing Alitalia, line up and wait Runway xxx."

The way Atlas and other contract carriers use "fake" call signs is a safety issue. Let us be honest here, the boxes in the back and the consigners do not give a proverbial flying f... what the wording is on the RT. However, we at the sharp end in ATC and as pilots seriously need to know who is calling from which aluminium tube.

I suggest that flight operations simply tells marketing to get stuffed and that this is the way it will be. And if you have bought the flight slot from another carrier, then be honest about it and tell air traffic, and use the callsign of the tail.

But then again, after the early nineties, when did you last see an operations director with the self confidence and assertion to tell a marketing director anything more than the time.

FWIW


edited by moosp to add vitriol

[Intruder]

AZ6030 was scheduled MXP-BOM...

[Zoner]

MOOSP: Many moons ago my outfit flew for other airlines using their call signs. ATC complained to the FAA and we were required to add “name of airline 747” after the call sign when we called for clearance or first call to approach radar. It was a mouthful and was hard to get used to at first but ATC knew who we were and it worked pretty well.

[ALLDAYDELI]

AtlasAir still flying freighters on ACMI for AZ, watch this space as things are set to change.

[sky9]

Heilhaavir

I was being facetious, sorry I didn’t make that clear.

[wingview]

The way Atlas and other contract carriers use "fake" call signs is a safety issue.

What a rubbish! They were flying for AZ so they use theyre call sign. Nothing strange about it.

Btw. What's the big deal about it anyway?

[Willit Run]

Moosp,

They are not "Fake" call signs! We get calls from many carriers that either don't have the lift, or need us to take care of some charter for them, that are part of slots into certain airports, which must use the carriers call sign. Now, if you were as sharp as you think you are, you would know that a call sign from Alitalia that has a southern USA accent, is obiously not an Italian!
And, what difference to you does it make, if we were from Atlas, MK, or any other supplemental airline? Please, I would like to know!

[stagger]

I think moosp made it clear what he's worried about..."After the landing Alitalia, line up and wait Runway xxx."See the problem?

[Heilhaavir]

My bad sky9, should have caught that.

Cheers

[Chuffer Chadley]

moosp

Indeed, boxes in the back and consigners do not give a flying anything whatsoever. However, when operating ACMI as was presumably the case here, the callsign of the charterer is used for perfectly practical reasons- airport fees, navigation charges etc are all charged direct to them.

To try to change the callsign would mean significant and costly changes to ACMI ops.

Shurely a better way of coping would be for phrases such as "After the landing 747, line up..."?

Ciao!
CC

[BelArgUSA]

It is the standard procedure - in USA airspace - to be identified by ATC (ground, tower, departure or approach control) to be called by the flight call sign - i.e. AZ/Alitalia 123, THEN will often be identified as to what specific airline or colors the leased aircraft has... I remember that procedure already was in effect in the 1970s when airplanes in USA were on "interchange" i.e. a Western Airlines 727 operating with a Continental Airlines flight. USA ATC often specifies TYPE and COLORS (or alternative name) of airplanes when confusion could arise on the ground or vicinity of airports...
xxx
A call sign merely identifies the "operator of the flight" as far as the traffic rights are concerned...
xxx
Would suggest that procedure to be used worldwide...
xxx
Happy contrails, all of you :O

[canadair]

I think moosp made it clear what he's worried about...
quote:
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"After the landing Alitalia, line up and wait Runway xxx."
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See the problem?



No, I do not. just what are you getting at here? as stated many ACMI operators fly under the callsgn of the client, so what?? if it is in the same colors fine, if it is white, big deal, just where is the confusion here??? I really cannot see your concern here?
Fact is you have no idea what employment status the crew operating any number of aircraft actually has, and who cares! just how does this affect you as the next in line????

[daidalos]

Although Intruder answered my question

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AZ6030 was scheduled MXP-BOM...
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I would like to ask about this quote:

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"After the landing Alitalia, line up and wait Runway xxx."
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Indeed, where is the problem?
The aircraft, that was waiting for T/O, did not enter the runway after the landing aircraft, or did they have to ask, if the ATC meant the Atlas B747, or what?
The thread started about a B747 having an engine failure and landing in BOM, in rain and crosswind.
We ended up reading about U.S. regulations and "fake" call signs?

[Earl]

If in doubt why not ask ground , Confirm line up and wait after the landing Atlas 747! ACMI does this all over the world is this the first time you seen this?
Fake call signs?
How long have you been in this position?
The thread was for an engine failure.

[shake rattle n roll]

I agree with Earl, what the blazes has this got to do with an engine failure, and who the blazes are you lot to second guess the captain of the aircraft!.......suggest you wait until all the info emerges