AC drops Boeing Order

[6000PIC]

Bad day for those aspiring pilots at AC , just when it was looking good.

[Tallbloke]

And for those wondering what the NEWS is, it appears AC and the ACPA have failed to reach an agreement, which was part of the restructuring necessary for the order to go ahead. Looks like the membership rejected the deal despite union recommending it. Also looks like if an agreement can be reached the order will be placed again. An article here (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050618/mo120.html?.v=2)

[Tony Clifton]

Perfect!

The "New" Air Canada pilots are finally talking as a single group.
(Well, as "single" as a 55% NO vote can be)

This new agreement singled one group of employees out for more concessions and then held a gun to their head to get them.
AC's usual tactic of "Do it or shut 'er down" way of negotiating.

If sticking MORE pilots into the B-scale position group pay is the only way to afford these planes, it just might be best if we DON'T get them!!!
I'm amazed that there wasn't more emphasis placed on the attempted "vote no because you hate Keller" movement by the OAC group.
I really don't think it had much sway.

This turd was flushed purely on its own smell.

Now... just where does AC plan to pick up used 777-300ER's or 340's?
If they really want planes; I'm sure the order is still there.
There is still an arbitration process that they COULD use with the pilots if they want.
Just posturing boys.... just posturing.

Cheers, Tony.

btw: The MEC's "recommendation" came because it was just another condition the company insisted on.
:ok:

[Rainboe]

So a major airline using negotiating tactics on one group of employees decides that apparently unless an agreement can be reached with them, they will cut their own nose off and cancel the order? Pigs will fly!

It's nice to know that pilots are so important and crucial to the survival of an airline! BA pilots take note!

[rotornut]

Boeing Statement on Air Canada Order Cancellation

SEATTLE, June 18, 2005 -- We share Air Canada 's disappointment at today's developments because we are looking forward to being a part of Air Canada 's vision for leadership. We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787, and we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere.

[PAXboy]

... because we are looking forward to being a part of Air Canada 's vision for leadership. Incorrect use of the word leadership. It is not for Boeing to comment on their leadership. They might be referring to AC's leading place in the world's airlines and, if so, they ought to say so.

... we believe we will have many opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere. They then insult their valued customer by saying that they don't need AC and that they will take their toys elsewhere. They also use this moment of compassion for AC's problems as an advertisement that they now have some machines going cheap.

If Boeing do allocate the machines to other clients, and then AC find the money - then Boeing will have made AC's problems worse because the machines will not be available when needed!

Gotta love big biz. :rolleyes:

[PaperTiger]

The "New" Air Canada pilots are finally talking as a single group. (Well, as "single" as a 55% NO vote can be)Not counting the ~33% who didn't bother to vote and presumably couldn't care less.

[MarkD]

Just as people were reporting the Aeroplan offering is oversubscribed and they had landed the DL maintenance deal and got their hooks into the US/HP merger - just goes to show AC are never out of the woods!

I suppose the only thing that can be said for it is that if it was Aer Lingus they would have bought the damn things before getting agreement with the unions and be stuck with the payments regardless, which is why they haven't made a dime in profit in 2005 and made E1m net on E100m operating profit in 2004.

Now that US/HP look to be leaning towards A350 perhaps Airbus will come calling again to try and take advantage of the situation, or try to sell them more 345s - maybe even working ones!

[JJflyer]

Seem to remember that this is not the first time AC scraps orders. If I recall it was A340 order a few years back that met the same fate. Can't remember where these aircraft eventually ended up (IB perhaps?)

JJ

[lomapaseo]

If Boeing do allocate the machines to other clients, and then AC find the money - then Boeing will have made AC's problems worse because the machines will not be available when needed!

Gotta love big biz.

You can't be serious:confused:

[Grubby]

Bravo for Boeing. Seems that they probably need to place the orders after a not so good showing in Paris in comparsion to EA. Airbus announced today that they are increasing the price of new purchases. AC has announced plans to fly all over China from YYZ. It will be very interesting, considering the dog that some of the 340 models are, UNLESS something magical happens and newer EA types are made available at a great price -- NOT! That will certainly be attractive trying to figure out how the HELL they are going to do that.

Then there is the cargo flying that is supposed to be repatriated to ACPA from the wet lease Gemini and World. That has a max limit, and likely that has been exceeded. So not AC is into another round of grievances with ACPA. The relationship is in a spiral. I do...not....know..if.........we......can....pullllll.....ooo oowwww....ttt.

[MarkD]

One Step

Remember the 146 pilots? How Willie deepsixed the fleet and then tried to hang them out to dry? And the contract cleaners EI are paying for and getting no service from because of the lack of agreement with the unions? The CPT fiasco? EI have just said that despite going virtually all 32x shorthaul the maintenance savings have not appeared as planned.

Would it have been better for AC to have whacked out a non refundable deposit ($200m US I understand) - it's just like the kind of thing the brains trust at the head of EI would have done.

Meanwhile, EI will now have to produce ads in Irish and English under the Official Languages Act, while FR won't. The Canadian Official Languages Commissioner testified during the committee stage of the passing of the act, and no doubt mentioned the Air Canada Public Participation Act, leading the Irish Government to dream up this similarly hobbling measure for EI and the other Irish semi-states.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=146796462&p=y46797y68

[Ralph Cramden]

Sounds like the monkeys are running the zoo.

[Habster]

who does Boeing have lined up for 777 orders and were there to be the LR ????

[MarkD]

bzh

please tell me your first language is French... make a bit of effort with the spelling eh?

[pictues01]

"Seem to remember that this is not the first time AC scraps orders. If I recall it was A340 order a few years back that met the same fate. Can't remember where these aircraft eventually ended up (IB perhaps?)"

That A340 cancelation was the A340-500's and it was because the pilots couldn't agree as well, 5 days later there was delivery dates. We can say most likely the order is dead for now next sunday.

[Dockjock]

No longer applicable?

"Our analysis of these aircraft pointed to overwhelmingly attractive economics. We have estimated the fuel burn and maintenance cost savings along on the B787 to be approximately 30% versus the B767s they will replace." -Robert Milton 4/05

Said overwhelmingly attractive economics did not, evidently, include a review of the contract that would stipulate what the labout cost would be? Strange!