Women at War.....Changing times!

[SASless]

The US Army has awarded the Silver Star award to a female Territorial Soldier for combat action in Iraq. She won the award for an infantry action after her convoy was ambushed. During the assault against the attackers using hand grenades and rifle fire, she killed three insurgents by rifle fire.

Times are changing!

http://ap.washingtontimes.com/dynamic/stories/W/WOMAN_SILVER_STAR?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME

:ok:

[Level headed]

Who ever said PMS was a bad thing?

[Maisiebabe]

Imagine if you had a whole battalion of women...eventually, as all females are aware, their monthly cycles will become synchronised. So, for one week of every month you can put your all female battalion in the front line and they will be unbeatable as they will all have PMS at the same time!!

The only snag is...if the enemy employ the same tactic and you have 2 female battalions, facing each other, all suffering from PMS, instead of fighting they'll all sit down together and discuss what bastards men are!

Gurrrrl power should not be underestimated!

[SASless]

Mais,

One fallacy to your argument....there is no negotiating with a women who has PMS....much less a battalion of them.

[VitaminGee]

Can you imagine a warship with an all female crew on PMS - in cramped conditions etc. (sorry, pun intended!!):oh:

VG

[kippermate]

Notwithstanding the obvious banter, I think Sgt Hester deserves our congratulations on her, undoubtedly well deserved, award.

:ok:

kipper.

[helidriver]

Women on the front line, including all women units is not a new thing. The Russians did it very well during WW2, not to mention our (British) SOE operatives. Credit where credit is due, well done bird. Remember your other duties though - hot bath run, dinner on the table at 1900hrs, pipe, slippers and newspaper ready and waiting as per wife SOP's! ;)

[Onan the Clumsy]

There was a similar thread here a few weeks ago about the same subject, but offering different sentiments.

Some of the things mentioned were actual experiences and as such carried some weight, albeit that they represented an insignificant selection set.

This being an actual event also should help to redress the other thread.

For years we have said women have no role in combat, not as nurses, then not as ambulance drivers then not as builders of airplanes or ships or shells. We said they couldn't ferry aircraft between repair bases and front line units or fly in support roles and we still say they have no role in combat.

I know its far from being a simple issue and I know I see it as an outsider, but I also know that they have proved themselves at every stage and will most likely continue to do so.

[Maisiebabe]

No negotiation with men, at that particular time, unless we change our minds of course!

Beagle: Good point, we can't do any of that stuff, thats why we're all out there doing it! The americans have always been a little more forward thinking on this issue; we Brits all just get on with it, take the banter and give it back in equal measure. No problem. Hopefully, we will avoid most of their PC restrictions.

[SASless]

Mbabe....

If you girls wish to be lumberjacks....all we ask is that you tote your end of the log.

There are aspects to combat that requires a certain amount of physical strength....sheer brute force....as long as the participants can lift that bale and tote that barge....it does not matter the gender.

All I care about is having a unit that is not held back by the physical inability of some of its members be they male or female.

As long as we do not confuse PC for ability or lack of ability and prepare our combat units to be the best on the field.....then no problem.

We have to recall that during Gulf One we lost the equivalent of one Battalion due to pregnancies. That is a casualty rate that is self inflicted and at some point can have a detrimental effect upon unit cohesion and military discipline. I know it takes two to tango.....but the end result is a loss of troop strength that could be avoided by retaining a ban on women in combat units.....as un PC that might be.

This particular young woman is a Military Police Officer and as such...by the forces of PC...is in what is now considered a non-combat unit. That might work for now....but in a conventional war could present the problem of having to draft support unit personnel for frontline infantry (the old Cooks, Clerks, and Strap Hangers to replace combat losses).

She does show that women can perform when called upon and allowed to meet the challenge.

[Pureteenlard]

We have to recall that during Gulf One we lost the equivalent of one Battalion due to pregnancies. That is a casualty rate that is self inflicted

Self inflicted pregnancy??? My god! We men really are obsolete!

[Onan the Clumsy]

She does show that women can perform when called upon Not the ones I meet :(

[Whirlygig]

Onan,

I don't think we've met :E

Cheers

Whirls x

[BEagle]

"Beagle: Good point, we can't do any of that stuff, thats why we're all out there doing it!"

If you're referring to something I've alleged to have written, please advise what it was.

:confused:

[bakseetblatherer]

:(
Women are catching up in all areas.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/24/iraq.main/index.html
Big debates on whether women should be deployed in combat roles again. What difference between the death or injury of a male or female soldier, it is all bad.......

[Onan the Clumsy]

You're right of course. Women shouldn't be allowed in combat, or the armed forced at all. In fact I think education is a bad thing for them as is walking outside the house without a male escort (and I mean a family member). Maybe they should all cover themselves from head to foot too as they'll just distract us men.

Let's see, what could I use for an example to show you how well that would work...

[Maisiebabe]

Beagle, wasn't arguing with anything you said.

Pregnancy self-inflicted?? Hope not, wheres the fun in that?!

Obviously there will always be tasks that are physically difficult if not impossible for women to do and I am in no way in favour of putting females in jobs they are not suited to just to keep the PC police happy. A whole battalion pregnant?? At once?? Wow!

Would also like to point out that women have been fighting in the front line since the dark ages, it is only since our societies have become "civilised" that there has been a problem with it. Let those who wish to and are capable of it do so.

Basically, if those at the top and those involved in recruitment/selection have the courage to assess/select the right people for the job regardless of the pressure to fill PC quotas then it should work.

[barit1]

My father (who soloed in 1930 and maintained his physical and flight currency until age 90, in 2000) was a flight instructor in the Women's AirForce Service Pilots (WASP) program.

By the end of the war he said he had flown so many training sorties that he hated the sight of a damn airplane.

But he never said he hated the sight of a damn girl.

[Onan the Clumsy]

...just maybe the sound of one :p

[Blacksheep]

When war was all about two great armies of people hacking at each other with swords and shields there was no place for women in the field. Except no-one told the Iceni. :hmm:

Quite cut the legs out from under the Romans, that Boudicca woman did. Or so they say.

This year, the US Army is 40,000 down on its required recruiting (again!). The troops must come from somewhere and in these modern times we find that women can shoot just as straight as men. Some of them even straighter - and I should know... :{

Or fly jet fighters, transports and helicopters. It doesn't take brawn to launch a missile, drive a tank - or aim and fire its guns. Let the women fight if they want to, after all they've been winning on the domestic front for centuries.

As for Onan's clumsy post, I often wonder how the mullahs might explain how it was that Aishah, one of the prophet's wives, was regularly in the van of the Muslim army of her day. When they were still fighting with swords, of course.

I suppose it was the beard that fooled them... :hmm:

[Pub User]

During the liberation of Kosovo I had the honour of carrying many of 5th Airbourne Bde into the country. During this period I also witnessed the sort of physical stress endured by infantry soldiers. The blokes we inserted were 'lightly' equipped with personal & section weapons, and of course the ammunition to go with them. It was very hot, so they also carried copious amounts of water, along with a day's rations. The result was that each man had a bergan that to me was almost a dead-weight.

I'm sure there are some women who could endure such physical challenges, but not many. The forces of PC should not add to the burden of infantry units by making them carry unsuitable people, of any gender.

As Sgt Hester has proved, they can fight as well, if not better, than many men. This still does not mean that all units should have 'proportional representation' of genders.

[Blacksheep]

Despite being a stocky male, I doubt if I could carry a Para's or Marine's Bergen very far. That would also apply to most of those reading the military aircrew forum; even those who actually are military aircrew. I believe that's what all the training is about.

If the physical requirements of the job require post-holders to carry a 60 Kg Bergen for twenty five miles in five hours, then that's the standard that trainees must achieve in order to graduate from training. Gender need not come into the process. As the average female is, due to the relative lack of testosterone, not as well developed in their muscle and bone anatomy as the average male, there will be proportionately fewer females that could make the grade. Ergo, most airborne troops and marines would be male. That standard needn't apply right across the military spectrum though.

Just a thought. Since I'm too short to be a Policeman, could I join as a Policewoman? ;)

[skiddriver]

Known a lot of top notch women in the US forces. Also had to carry their gear for them on training marches because they couldn't pack it themselves.

Plenty of jobs available in the service that are right-sized for the average female (piloting is a good example). Some military specialties are too physically demanding except for the exceptional female.

Testing into a specialty also implies testing out. Not the road the most military forces want to open up when the shooting starts.

"I swear Sarge, I couldn't carry that ruck to the corner, let alone into all that shooting. I'd like a nice desk job please."