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Capt Stabbin
17th Jun 2005, 00:27
1 - The QF3/4 SYD-HNL services to continue on to SFO. Good news for classic drivers!

2 - The FAAA is negotiating a "B Scale" for Australian based crew in order to maintain some sort of "industrial relevance". Involves a pay cut somewhere in the order or 30%.

OhForSure
17th Jun 2005, 04:08
How busy will the Classics be then? I spose the 6 of 'em can keep up the routes, and possibly take on SFO too now that 333s have taken over some of the former services (Ex:BNE-SIN). Will the QF3/4 flights operate the normal HNL service and then just fly on... or will there be changes to the schedule?

handgun fellashio
17th Jun 2005, 04:26
Why would you fly SYD/HNL/SFO on a "classic"when you can fly SYD/AKL/SFO on a 400.QF is short of aircraft and definitely short of ideas.If this is true it just shows what the threat of competition (SQ)will do.QF is just trying to consolidate its position in the Pacific and only because it is b eing forced to.
SFO has better connections to YVR and a host of other destinations in the US.It is a UA hub and not an AA hub like LAX,hence QF`s reluctance to fly there.
Oh,boys and girls of Longhaul CC,don`t get excited the Kiwis will be doing this route....you can bet your left ovary/testicle on that.

longreach
17th Jun 2005, 06:27
Why would you fly SYD/HNL/SFO on a "classic"when you can fly SYD/AKL/SFO on a 400.

Maybe QF want to get their hands on some SFO slots to utilise in the future, when the 773ERs come on-line. SQ will get Pacific rights at some stage and fragmentation will occur. Time to get back into SFO and prepare for competition/fragmentation.

Mr. Boeing
17th Jun 2005, 08:43
Hand gun, what's the difference between flying in a 300 as against a 400? Same interior and speed I thought.

handgun fellashio
17th Jun 2005, 08:53
The noise, the feel,the stowage space,just the grunt a 400 has.It just inspires comfort and modernity.The 300 was always a stop gap aircraft .My thoughts anyway.

Angle of Attack
17th Jun 2005, 08:55
Yeah and the higher cost and fuel burn of the 300 compared to the 400

DirectAnywhere
17th Jun 2005, 10:44
The -300 "stop gap" has been stopping a pretty big gap (20 years now!).

It's a very capable aircraft - built like a brick s%^thouse - although the fuel burn is roughly 3% more than a -400. That's a lot of bucks with oil at US$56 a barrel. However, the aircraft are now all fully depreciated and are configured for 450 odd pax.

I believe they have the lowest cost per ASK on sectors of between 6 and 9 hours in the QF fleet.

handgun fellashio
17th Jun 2005, 10:53
They are rubbish..... period.Yesterdays technology.Breakdown almost as often as Airbuses.QF spent way too much on the refurb. QF sends a poor piece of equipment to one of its most important markets...Japan.No wonder the approval rating in Japan is going down the dunny.The bloody brassco`s stink.

scrubed
17th Jun 2005, 11:44
pleasure of a SFO .... everyone seems to rave Good God. YSSY to KSFO. You can just imagine the bitching and scratching as all the old queens climb over each other to get as many as possible..... :yuk:

Should be good for a few biffos with that many mincers aboard.

Bart Simson
17th Jun 2005, 12:21
Hey Handgun!

How many punters do you think would know if they were flying in a -300 or a -400 especially when they are making the booking.

rescue 1
17th Jun 2005, 12:52
Don't think it would be AO...but jetstar?? Hmmm

TAC On
17th Jun 2005, 13:39
I'm astounded.

QANTAS, once the flag bearer in longhaul aircraft development, is still operating the Jurrassic, on pax services. I thought they were long gone to freght ops.

Most of the third world switched their pax ops to more modern aircraft yonks ago.

Yet here we are in the twentyfist century, with QANTAS "evaluating a fleet modernisation". Sh.t fellahs, third world airlines have been flying 777's 330's and 340's for nigh on ten years and you still can't make up your minds to progress, let alone define your requirements

This must surely make QANTAS a "fourth world" airline.

And they have the temerity to bleat about protection from those nasty agressive Arab's et al.

Mind boggling.

TO

MarkD
17th Jun 2005, 14:15
I would have thought one reason to go via HNL would be the 600km longer great circle distance to SFO via AKL.

blueloo
17th Jun 2005, 14:18
mmm...astounding.....cant be doing to badly given that its one of the few profitable airlines in the world...........


not that I am saying it doesnt need new jets, but obviously it has been planned this way for a reason.....

Keg
17th Jun 2005, 14:37
OK, so who are you and what have you done with the real Blueloo. That was FAR too nice a thing to say about QF management for him! :} :E :}

Sandy Freckle
17th Jun 2005, 19:33
This thread is astounding. I don't think I've ever come across so many completely uninformed fools.

People like "fellashio". Who clearly has not seen the multi milion dollar refit on the classic, whereby punters wouldnt know whether they were in a 300 or 400.

People like TAC, who just want to use the opportunity to knock Qantas. Just unbelievable.

There's no logic here. Just knockers.

handgun fellashio
17th Jun 2005, 20:04
I have seen the refurb numnuts and its still shite.
Its called overcapitalising
Last time I looked we still live in a democracy where I am entitled to have an opinion.Just because we are not in agreeance doesn`t mean it has any less value.
So which other premium carrier still has 6 of these "Classics"?.Refurbed or not.

Pete Conrad
17th Jun 2005, 20:06
Sandy freckle... agree, the ones that usually knock are the ones who have been knocked back!

Hypocrisy of it is, is that if Qantas offered half these armchair experts jobs, would they knock em back? No!

handgun fellashio
17th Jun 2005, 20:17
An excellent post ...truly inspired.

Pete Conrad
17th Jun 2005, 20:21
Mr handmaiden fullofsh!tio,

An even better response from you sir.

Your comments are like your lower bowel, stinking and loaded with danger.

Butterfield8
17th Jun 2005, 20:24
Oh C`mon PC my 5 year old can make up a better response than that.Its a bit limp wristed.You CAN do better!
BTW are you a proctologist?

Sandy Freckle
17th Jun 2005, 20:29
So which other premium carriers are making money, fellashio, you dimwit...?

Butterfield8
17th Jun 2005, 20:37
Which other carriers have total disregard for their pilots?
QF only makes money because they have cut the buggery out of their product.They have done absolutely nothing clever with their revenue base.Then they do a tremendously stupid thing by spending 100 million bucks on refurbing 20 year old bucket of bolts like the classic...sheer genius.They are going to send an a/c from SYD to SFO via HNL..a domestic sector.They can`t pick up local traffic.So 399 get off in HNL and 1 continues onto SFO.While 350 wanting to go to SFO are left in Sydney.
SYD AKL SFO with Air New Zealand is definitely the way to go and on a better, NEWER a/c

Pete Conrad
17th Jun 2005, 20:42
Butterfield8,

I aint a proctologist, sh!tty job that.

Butterfield8
17th Jun 2005, 20:53
PC ....you seem to know a lot about colons.If you ain`t no proctologist then you must be a....oh no couldn`t be.Who woulda thought?.Your dad must be upset You have told him haven`t you?

Enema Bandit's Dad
17th Jun 2005, 21:31
Well I'll have you know that I'm very proud of my son. He lectures in protcology and is a reknowned expert in the field.

Sandy Freckle
17th Jun 2005, 21:49
Which other carriers have total disregard for their pilots?
Air New Zealand seem to fit this category nicely, mate. QF drivers STILL earn significantly more. The carrier is more stable etc etc.

Destroys your argument buttery!

And you still didn't answer my question! ANZ might have newer a/c, but they arent making much in the way of $$.....

Sunfish
17th Jun 2005, 22:11
Sandy: "And which other premium carriers are making a profit?"

And you think that this profit is a result of a delighted Australian public and other international travellers who are falling over themselves to pay premium prices to expereince the exquisite service and performance of Qantas?

Its a result of Qantas's stranglehold on capacity that allows them to operate like a low cost carrier while charging premium prices.

Try and understand this Sandy: No one EVER flies Qantas by choice anymore.

OBNO
17th Jun 2005, 22:57
Sunfish says "Try and understand this Sandy: No one EVER flies Qantas by choice anymore." Now is that fact or opinion? I can only assumeit is ill founded opinion, given that I know many people who will only fly Qantas. There choice.

I;m afraid the average punter would be lucky to know if he were in a Boeing or Airbus let alone the differnce between a -400 and -300. That being said, personally I agree the 300's should have been retired long ago.
Which other major airline operates 747 - 300's? Answer is: JAL and lots of them.

Sandy Freckle
17th Jun 2005, 23:05
Right there with you obno. Sunfish? YOU dont fly Qantas by choice. You cannot speak for others, nor make idiotic sweeping statements.

Qantas still has 60% of the domestic market. That means that those who still fly Qantas have MADE the choice. Those punters who fly ANYWHERE with Qantas have made a positive choice, because Qantas does not have a monopoly on ANY single route. There are choices for EVERY route. Some are limited, but there are STILL choices.

Sunfish, continue your little tirade against QF. You think you are going to make a difference? I certainly don't. Most on PPrune see straight through you. You are a pathetic little failure, both as a CEO and a person.

Ultralights
17th Jun 2005, 23:31
simple fact remains, 5 yrs of record profits................... and the share price hasnt moved!

cartexchange
17th Jun 2005, 23:32
Its true the 747-300 is a bucket of bolts, shite..... I operate on it quite frequently, I have never completed a sector where the IFE has been fully functional, the toilets always block up, or the flood zone E with sewage, the list goes on and on, and then don't forget about the breakdowns.
The pilots obviously think that the 300's are great from their point of view, but when you have to explain 1000 times to the punter that they have to sit there in the darkness for the next 12 hours it wears a bit thin, ====reason the aircraft is OLD......oh and yeah, whilst you sit there in the darkness, there is a great smell, its call raw shite coming from under the carpet....

And as far as SFO, who cares....never liked that place anyway!

Sunfish
17th Jun 2005, 23:45
SF, do we have any choice? The answer is no.

Pete Conrad
18th Jun 2005, 00:01
And Virgin Blue ultralights, 2 years of big mouth claims from Godfrey et al..................................and the share price has dropped!

Ultralights
18th Jun 2005, 00:10
Vb arnt announcing record profits and promoting themselves as the wolds most profitable airline!

Pete Conrad
18th Jun 2005, 00:18
I thought VB did announce a record profit, but it's been downgraded 5 times? Point is, whatever spin doctoring QF may put out, VB do a good job of keeping up with the BS!

But thats business I guess hey? Never let your competitors get a whiff you may be trouble?

RaTa
18th Jun 2005, 01:21
Latest Qantas Rumours

Well the rumours have dried up and the slanging has well and truly started!

Ultralights
18th Jun 2005, 01:34
oh rumours sorry, ummm

QF will buy the Airbus A350, thats why they are not going for the 777.

handgun fellashio
18th Jun 2005, 01:50
QF Pilots are to receive training on how to communicate with passengers.Chief pilot Pete Conrad has taken great pains in an appropriately worded letter to all concerned to explain the reasons why pax are so important.
Some, on reading this letter, have been known to express absolute surprise as to this very reason they have a job.A number felt that pax were there to cushion the impact of their feet as they were deplaning.
The long talked about "dog on the flight deck"is to be further explored.
A free doggy dish is to be provided for every individual attending.

Captain Conrad feels that considering the subject matter and the quality of those attending the course a time frame of 2 millenia should be sufficient to bring everyone up to speed.
For $AU 2.50 a personalized doggy dish will be made available.

TAC On
18th Jun 2005, 02:07
Accounting and politics are all smoke and mirrors.

Saying QANTAS must be doing things right, because they are making record profits, is a bit akin to saying Australia is doing things right because we have had falling unemployment for years. Bullsmit.

If you change the guidlines on who can be termed unemployed, of course you can get the figures down. Why don't we look at the total number of people recieving benefit or assistance rather than concentrating on "unemployed" what about the "under employed"

My point being that QANTAS similarly fiddles the system to post artificial profits.

Destroy the work and ambitions of a few thousand previously loyal personnel. That should be good for a few more cents on the bottom line.

If you don't invest in the future, (plant, equipment, personnel), you can inflate the bottom line. Looks good for now but what will it look like in the not to distant future when Geffy slips out with his gold lined pockets? Inventory will be down to a few dozen, written down to zero, aircraft with no significant value on the open market. The new broom checks out the bickkie barrell to start building the airline up to the standard it had and should have maintained, but hasn't. Massive borrowings, stuff all colateral. It ain't going to be pretty.

But will Geffy or the bowtie care?

The ones who will bear the sour fruit of this policy will be those blinkered souls who blunder on thinking all is well in Geffys world cos "we are the only premium carrier making a profit" and apart from that we're far better at this stuff than all the rest of the world. FIGJAM.

Geffy is obviously the most brilliant Airline CEO in the world, or the whole thing is an illusion. I don't see that there can be any other answer.

I let you make up your mind which is more the more likely scenario.

And to add my sixpence worth to the other aspect of this discussion. I purchase tickets on a monthly basis, I will only travel with the Q if there is no other suitable option. The service is crap, and the attitude of the staff is appalling. Gave up using ID travel long ago as Q has made it as difficult and as unpleasnt as possible. Buy over the internet now and where possible direct my money to those who appreciate it.

TO

Australia2
18th Jun 2005, 03:48
Boys and Girl's,

Have things really become this sad in Qantas ?!

handgun fellashio
18th Jun 2005, 04:17
All that you read here about QF has a direct corellation to the service(Not)provided.Everyone has pretty much given up.I stay because I am bloody minded and I am not going to let these swine win.I will leave when I am ready and not because I have been threatened by Dixon`s Qestapo.Whatever negative comments are made here about Qantas...I agree with them .
I have been 23 years and the place, now, has all the happiness of a morgue.

OhForSure
18th Jun 2005, 04:54
Well, back on topic here... with all this mention of stopping in NZ vs. HNL... why not just fly UA direct??? Flight UA870 leaves SYD at near MTOW everyday from what I've been told. Must be doing something write...

Their international service is regarded as pretty good, definately better than the domestic service. Price is no different than QF or UA to LA... and you get tons of connecting options for N. America. That'd my choice hands down.

More importantly I reckon Longreach has got it right here... QF needs to get its assets sorted out quickly before Virgin/Singapore get into the action. The 743 may just be a temp equip for the route... with such high density seating I would think people would make other travel arrangements.

tow-truck
18th Jun 2005, 05:33
you're right, high density seating is an understatement.
398 people in economy is too tight, and 8 crew.
Usually on this aircraft the IFE and lights go out in "E" zone, or the lights come on in the middle of the night, then 398 people want to go walk around.
They should sell the thing or simply convert it to cargo... do anything but dont put people in it.
Not long ago we had to place the cardboard on the floor to soak up the liquids that were coming from the drain, the punters loved having their feet squishing around!

handgun fellashio
18th Jun 2005, 18:01
That smug philandering,alcoholic has got about 18 months of his tenure left.Borghetti is being groomed as his replacement.He would have left earlier except Jackson forgot to organise/groom a replacement.How do these incompetent twits rise to these positions?

QFinsider
19th Jun 2005, 01:11
The inventory is an interesting way to artificially inflate the bottom line, at least for a bit...Take a drive past YMAV and see a classic sitting there with no engines coz there aint any stock!

The succession plan is another risk...Bogetti is nothing but a used car salesman in a slick suit. Don't know much about aircraft and doesnt have too, he is an executive. Him or the bean counter wont be able to fix the mess they have created as they are simply part of the problem, Dixon is only the mouthpiece for the board, they all sign off on this crap.
Rest assured they will hide the refurb of the classic, $100+million, like they hid the the "refurb" on the A330-200..A refurb on a brand new aircraft hmmmm...But i guess you can fool most of the people most of the time.

I find it ironic that the arguement forwarded by Q to the government over the Pacific route was the loss of local employment. Once SIA are out of it they come out in the media the day after and announce another 3,000 job cuts due fuel blah blah...No mainstream media commented on it...

The ironic thing is that they had an engagement survey, the results tell them pilots aren't happy..They couldn't care less as GD said He isn't seeing staff leaving in droves" The goodwill and thrill to be part of the airline has evaporated, along with the inventory and the ability to provide a superior service...But as that can't be counted it isn't tangbile..Sadly the customers know it, we know and even latterly the market has cottoned on to the fact that there aren't many new ideas in the cupboard..You can't continue to sell the skybed as your crowning achievement; three years after the event, yet they still do:(

Captain.Q
19th Jun 2005, 03:41
No one wants to leave,as I see it,for several reasons:
1.They want to see these basturds fail and be found out
2.They want to stick around to see them off.
3.Once they are gone there is a tiny hope that things will improve
4.For others it is simply the hope of a VR
Thats why you don`t see people leaving in droves.
For me number 3 has resonance.

blueloo
19th Jun 2005, 06:11
Keg, i must have been feeling guilty.........



:}


I thought i'd say some nice things, so that the nice people negotiating my EBA will give in, and give us all a 25% pay increase from the generosity of their hearts

spinout
19th Jun 2005, 06:23
Just thinking .... What bonus will GD get this year??
With some of the F*&%ups re A330 J* Asia etc ....:hmm:

Apophis
20th Jun 2005, 10:54
(the refurb of the classic, $100+million)
some seats with tv and a quick coat of white paint on the inside it still looks like an old aircraft tarted up.