JETSTAR ENGINEERING EBA "VOTE NO"

[Stall Margin]

To all the Jetstar engineers out there,Please
Don't be put to company pressure to vote yes.As you all know the vote is next week and now is our chance to let the company know we are and will be valued more than the offer that is on the table.We are still getting far less than our counterparts at QANTAS or JETCARE and now is the time to let our feelings be known.Don"t forget the huge wage rises Geoff Dixon and company give themselves whilst the engineers who maintain and keep the aircraft flying at JETSTAR for their fat profits are looked upon with disdain.VOTE NO!!

[The masked goatrider]

SM - Can you give us a short burst on what is in the agreement?

Who negotiated it?

[Stall Margin]

Sure.38 hr week. We work 2 days of 11 hours then 2 nights of 11 hours with 4 days off. we get no public holidays or days in lieu.this is a total of i think 2008 hours a year.the company are offering the standard 3% a year for a 3 year eba.The proposed wages for a triple rated e,i, and r person on two types that is the b717 and a320is 100,100. This is what the company has offered.At Jetcare the same wage is closer to 119,000 for a single type B737-800.This includes bonuses.At present even a triple cat guy at eastern is on more money.The company has virtually forced it's employees to vote yes for this eba by saying adamantly that their is no more to be given and the veiled threat that they will close newcastle heavy maintenance down and bring aaes contractors in to do our line jobs.The Engineering consultative committe negotited on our behalf but didn't achieve much.Despite my repeated attempts at contacting the alaea to negotiate on my behalf they did nothing.

[Crystal Marina]

Stall Margin,
Is there a reason why the ALAEA has not become involved in the negotiation?

What is the salary offered at Jetstar? You don't seem to have it in your post.

2008 hours per year seems a bit high. By my calculations it works out to about 38.5 hours per week. Is there overtime factored into the salary?

Days in lieu, "Z" days or twentieth days, whatever you wish to call them, should be should be factored into the roster as additional days off or as floating days off. This is usually done to compensate for public holidays.

Who is aaes?

[sys 4]

yes CM the alaea are not involved because everthing they touch they F#CK.
Stall margin don't let them near it.

[Stall Margin]

AAES is Ansett Aeronautical Engineering Services.It is what is left of the old Ansett Heavy Maintenance facility at Tullamarine.No there are NO 20 th days or DIL Days or anything else offered to compensate for the loss of the public holidays.This seems to have come about due to the old Impulse Airlines EBA Which has been carried over to the Jetstar one.The pay offered is $100,100 for a triple cat E,I and R person licenced on 2 aircraft types.It seems the pay offered for either Avionics or Mechanical is still somewhat about $10,000 short of whta other opertators are giving their staff (After all it is a low cost carrier says Alan Joyce)It amazes me that they can turn a very tidy profit but will not offer anymore as they say OW the fuel prices you know are hurting us!

[Turbo 5B]

I agree sys 4. Judging by their negotiating prowess in the main airlines eba the Jetstar blokes are better off leaving the ALAEA exec out of it.
Because you might still end up with a sh!tty deal, but at least you'll be able to hold a mass meeting and discuss it amongst evryone involved. You will be able to have informed debate.
You won't have executive members lying to different areas about how much support the deal has.
You won't have to put up with deliberate distortions of the truth at feedback meetings whilst they sell their hard fought agreement.
You might even be able to put some industrial pressure on them.
If they ALAEA executive are involved they'll choke that before it can get off the ground.
With out them you can be masters of your own destiny.

And another thing Cystal Marinara, why the F^ck don\'t you executive idiots know that Jetstar has an eba negotiation happening. Did qantas manage to slip that one past you?

[Kiwiconehead]

At present even a triple cat guy at eastern is on more money.

We are? I'd better ring payroll because mine ain't right.

$32.18 per hour.

Paid 76hrs per fortnight plus 29hrs average (~38%) DILs and public holidays paid out in averaged wage.

MQL are highest probably because they are all nightshift.

$100k with a ****load of overtime, but not just for turning up. I worked out I did about 22 extra 11 hour days to top 100k last FY.

OH, and I've been on that hourly rate for 3 years thanks to wage freezes and the whole graded wage structure shaft, which really hurt for those guys who actually had other types (146). We went from having an EBA that said we would retain payments until replaced by another type to just gatting our wages frozen for 3 years.

Who negotiated that? The ALAEA. I gave myself a payrise by not giving them $500 per year any more.

Re the Jetcare agreement - go down the line and talk to the guys, I'm bloody sure their $119k includes an overtime component.

[Howard Hughes]

$119.000

My god, thats more than twice my base salary!!

I surely did make the wrong choice at careers day, now where is that info on adult apprenticeships?;)

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Stall Margin]

I have mates at both jetcare and eastern.My friend at jetcare is yes i know it's hard to believe on $119,000 for E,I and R on 1 a/c type.This does include bonuses but it does not include any overtime component.The other one at eastern is on approx $94,000 for E,I and R on the dash 8.He was thinking of coming to jetstar but on their current eba they are only paying $85,000 for the A 320 endorsement and you don't get any public holidays or days in lieu.No wonder he reconsidered!

[Howard Hughes]

Owen,

Yes once again I failed to listen to dad's kind words, how could he be right so many times!!;)

And yes you guys/gals are worth it!!

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[Turbo 5B]

Sh!t, A single a/c AF + Eng ie 747 400er + RB211 at qantas pays a base less than 52k a year. A current shift allowance average in H/M pays 27.5% which totals less than 75k a year.

[rudderless1]

I hope jetstar have real industrial representation, please put the $500 you saving by not being in the association together with others, and seek professional industrial represention by some one who can develop ,communicate and present a well founded arguement for the workers to consider.

How easy would it be to replace a320 wokers particularly on the money and conditions you guys are on? I imagine it would not be easy.

Do not be mislead by the QANTAS LAME vote, it could not have purposely been lead worse, whichmade the members capitulate the way they did.

Solidarity and education or give your boss another bonus! :ouch:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

These gentlemen, and lady, are some of the best you will find in the industry. No problem is to big or to small. To see dedicated professionals undervalued this much is trully a shame.

Im certainly a fan of your efforts.

DM

[Crystal Marina]

Stall Margin,
You didn't answer my question as to why the ALAEA did not get involved in your negotiation.

I have heard a rumour that management did not want them involved. Is this correct?

sys 4 & Turbo 5B,
If you don't like your lot then I suppose there is other employment out there for you. Good luck. But I suppose you don't want to leave the comfy little position you now have in your current employment. It gets cold on night shift in winter especially if its permanent!:ok:

rudderless1,
I am sure the members did not capitulate. Those that thought it worthy voted it up. Those that had their heads in the sand were out numbered. Simple!:ok:

Howard Hughes, Owen Stanley & Douglas Mcdonnell,
Thank you for your kind words.

[sys 4]

the point is CM if you and your dickhe@d mates on the exec of the ALAEA made a choice to listen to your members in HM and other areas the alaea recomendation to except the offer would never have got up and we wouldn't have been sold down the river by you bastards.AGAIN STALL MARGIN DO NOT GO NEAR THE ALAEA.

[REALITY]

VirginTech don't use or want ALAEA involved in their negotiations for pay and conditions for one very simple reason........they get paid more than anywhere else for one aircraft type.

Compare their wages with the rest....that is one type only. Tens of thousands more than a level 3 Lame at Qantas.

The ALAEA negotiates great EBA deals...a less than CPI increase and a loss of conditions fo many workers, two EBA's in a row. Their negotiating committee meets behind closed doors with Qantas and they then feed misinformation to their members, creating a environment of mistrust and distaste. Qantas members are told to accept the deal or face loosing backpay etc. then they will have to accept a lesser deal.

As all can see.... the ALAEA get terrible results for their members. It is no wonder many members are leaving and LAME's from other companies are smart enough to not involve these corrupt people when it comes negotiating time.

Stall Margin,
you are much better off without them. They will just sell you out to further their own positions. Save your $500, cause u will not get any value from ALAEA.

[Stall Margin]

I'll answer your question cm, becuase the lazy fat cat union officials could not be bothered!Let me elaborate.Last august well before the eba negotiations commenced the union had a meeting with about 20 members from jetstar.They wanted us to sign a
S.170lk request for representation which quite a lot of us did on the 5/8/2004.Despite this they let our Engineering consultative committe "handle" the negotiations which still are not what the jetstar employees want( no dil's or public holidays etc).After I personally spoke to CR at the union he requested i again get the members together to get another one of these forms signed.Why ?I also am still a financial member of the ALAEA and even after E-mailing the Federal President to which i have no reply the Union which is supposed to represent me refuses to get involved.Of course the management did not want the union involved'and i can't understand why the majority of engineers let the ECC do the negotiating for them.The company has again had a second "roadshow" to sell the agreement to the employees after the first one was voted down.NOTHING HAS CHANGED!Only their veiled threats that they will close Newcastle heavy maintenance down and that they will bring in ex-Ansett contractors to do our jobs,If we again vote the agreement down.Unfortunately the ECC committe has failed and the company has stood firm saying no extra money(as tabled in the new agreement which is about $10,000 short of other companies IE Jetcare) no dil days or public holidays and no extra weeks leave.It's now too late the Vote goes ahead next monday the 20/6.I for one will be voting NO and i hope that all the other engineers will do the same and not be coerced by managements veiled threats (which unforunately the general consensus seems to be that this time the vote will pass).

[Turbo 5B]

Looks as though Stall Margin has answered your question CM.
Don't your fed ex buddies and your industrial officer keep you up to speed on what's going on?
Maybe you are being fed the same load of Cr@p and lies that you have been peddling.

What's your reply to SM's answer fat boy?

[Bumpfoh]

A fat lot of good the asscoiation are, they are supposed represent ALL members regardless of place of employment. What hope have members got when the exec and industrial officer don't even know whats going on in their own backyard, i.e too many QF people on the exec! :ugh:

[Crystal Marina]

Sys 4, Turbo 5B & Bumpfoh,
I have said many times before that you and many others have me mistaken for someone else. I have no control whatsoever over what hapens in Jetstar and am merley interested in their situation. My interest is mainly from an old unionists point of view. I am sure that the exec did listern to a broad spectrum of their membership and made their decision accordingly.

Stall Margin,
Thank you for your explanation.

[Turbo 5B]

There's an expression for what you have just written Crystal.
It involves a bullock's @rse and what comes out of it.

You may as well just keep out of it if you're not going to admit your role in the association.
It's not too hard to work out who you are.
When you walk through your work section next time just think of how many people have lost all respect for you.

[Crystal Marina]

Stall Margin,
I would be interested in the outcome of your vote. Please keep us posted.

[sys 4]

why would that be CM,is it because it's one EBA were you couldn't sell out the blokes on the floor to better your own cause.PR!CK.

[Turbo 5B]

And another thing CM, when you say old unionist you meant to say ex unionist. An ex unionist but masquerading as an ALAEA executive member.
There is no union within the ALAEA. It is every man for himself.

[sys 4]

you are a disgrace CM

[Bumpfoh]

Crystal Marina,

you must have an awfully guilty conscience, I was not referring to you personally and if I was I would have included it in the post.
I was merely referring to mine and the obvious opinion of previous posts and numerous fellow workmates. :ok:

[Stall Margin]

Bad news.The Jetstar EBA engineering vote got up with 87% of the employees voting in favour of the agreement.Still no public holidays etc,The management has played us like dummies and have come out triumphant!3 yr EBA with the "standard 3% a year" Big deal! If they were fair dinkum they would at least give us our dil's or public holidays or even pay us properly for the hours we seem to work for nothing but alas the world has changed since september the 11th.The company can seem to do whatever they like to us with ZERO help from that bloody useless ALAEA.Come next week I will no longer be a financial member.I'd rather save my $500 a year rather than give it to a bunch of halfwits

[pullock]

Hi Stall Margin,

I voted no for all the reasons that you did. Management have played the staff for fools once again. The good news is that I have every plan now to vote a second time - with my feet.

For all who are rading this and I certainly hope that the union is too, I would like to endorse everything that Stall Margin has said.

The ALAEA was formally asked by an overwhelming majority of Jetstar engineers to represent them, time and time again. They did not represent us at all. There could only be two reasons that they chose not to stand by us as a group - either they are incompetant, or they had alterior motives.

I remain a member of the ALAEA for only one reason - the legal representation insurance that they cover us with. I have tried to get the same insurance directly and I just can't, so I am forced to remain a member of a union that appears to be working against me.

Jetstar engineers are now officially the lowest paid engineers in the industry in Australia. I think that says a lot. Pay peanuts - Get monkeys OOh OOh OOh

[rudderless1]

Pullock,
just what insurance do you think the ALAEA has that any other union does not.

This has been the pipe dream many ill informed LAME has been mislead by year after year.

If you believe they have some type of cover your ar#e policy for any event you may be the caught up in, you are wrong and their industrial defense and might cannot even develop a case for an EBA.

Please, get informed who's who, hang in and vote a new exec in 12mths. The exec needs representation from other than QANTAS, the workers need to communicate between companies.

At the end of the day members have let it get this bad, its going to take members to fix the problem.

[The masked goatrider]

Agree with your sentiment entirely rudderless.