Conception of a rest room in very long haul aircrafts

[MIT]

I'm working on a study about organizing the rest rooms on board for pilots in the case of very long range aicrafts like the future A3XX. I would like to have your opinions, suggestions on what would you think necessary in this type of rest rooms. All kinds of information you would like to say about the comfort, the space you request to have a good and rapid rest, all sorts of things you have in mind and things you should need. It would help this study and make a big progress, taking the request of pilots to create things for them. An online sample survey to make human factor in aeronautics progress.
Thanks for your help
MIT

[The Invisible Man]

Suggest contraceptive machine to prevent the conception in the rest room. Sorry !!!
Pilots are pampered enough as is. Let them have what we have when working long hours......three old chairs and a blanket!!

[MIT]

Are u a pilot (invisble man)? Have u ever had the responsabilities that pilots have. I think due to the growth of air traffic +8% per year and the difficulty to lower accident =25 a year, the only way to decrease those accidents is to act on human factors because aircrafts systems, now, are very reliable.

Pilots should be pampered because there will be responsible of 800 passengers. Ordinary workers don't have those conditions of work.

Thanks for your reply.
MIT

[spannersatcx]

Are you an Engineer MIT? - I'd be careful, you are opening up another can of worms here. You may not know but the Engineers/Technicians on the ground ARE also responsible for the 800 or so people on these ridiculously large aircraft. They HAVE to certify it fit to fly. You are probably talking to the wrong people here about the creature comforts that flt crews have or should have for ULH flts. Not that I'm against it of course. From an ordinary worker who has the responsibility of ensuring that the 400+ pax and 20 crew on the 5 a/c that he has released for flt today so far, who is over worked, underpaid, underappreciated, soaked to the bone etc etc etc. But still loves it all the same.


[This message has been edited by spannersatcx (edited 12 November 2000).]

[SchmiteGoBust]

MIT,
Are you a graduate by any chance?
Please also be aware that if you are an engineer "signing off" any work on an aircraft as "seviceable and fit for flight", the responsibility for that work can in some cases last for years and in others for the life of the aircraft. The responsibilty doesn't stop when the aircraft does.
I do agree that pilots have great responsibility, but so also do the little rag hands who fix the things.


In reply to your question it may be worth considering the mandatory "g" loadings these sort of structures must be designed to withstand. Also if it is a compartment it must meet the airconditioning design limits and fire regulations-- I would have thought that from a human factors point of view it must be essential for the person to be able to lie down completely--not semi-reclined as in most business class seats.



[This message has been edited by SchmiteGoBust (edited 12 November 2000).]

[The Invisible Man]

Mit. I suppose you'd class me as an ordinary worker, responsible for you as a pilot ( if you are one ) and the human cargo you ferry about. We had aircraft operating long haul with two crews that had a rest room fitted. The only concern aircrew had was if they and stewardesses could fit in together, and if they could be heard from the outside.

[MIT]

I'm sorry if I hurt you in my purpose but to what the invisible said (3 chairs and a blanckett) it makes me react. I don't say that pilot is the most, greater , difficult, etc job, i just say that pilots are being the center point to reduce danger during flights. All the work of the engineers has reached the perfection, that's why there is few problems with all equipements on board. The thing is, and that is my concern and hopefully yours, reducing danger in aeronautics, nowadays, comes by concentrating on pilots and how we could help him to do his job. Ideas like limiting his action on the interface, introducing new automatic pilot controls is very imortant , but as much as there will be pilots in aircraft we should also concentrate on him (human factors). In this, modifying pilots behaviour like introducing naps during flights ( Airbus Industrie-LAA. Copying with long-range flying. Recommandations for crew rest and alertness.- Blagnac)is one important fact.
Airbus and Boeing are working a lot on human factors to introduce in their planes more security by watching pilots activity and alertness.
The conception of new types of rest rooms for new type of flights very long haul > 18 hours seems important for good rest=good alertnes=less danger. Source of discomfort often experienced by pilots are vibration, noise and low cabin air humidity, this is not suitable for such flights.
All ideas coming from pilots, cabin crew and engineers are important because there are the same or different and this makes ideas progress.

Thanks for your interesting point of view.

Does anyone now where i could find images of rest cabin of 777 and other log haul aircrafts?

Thanks for your help

MIT

[The Invisible Man]

Got your thread going didn't it !!! Have worked and had experience of three types of aircraft with separate rest areas.
DC 10 :- Rest area, in lower galley, consisted of triple seat and guess what... blankets!! Noisy, in the way of normal galley activities, and altogether unacceptable for long/short periods of rest.

B767 :- Front right side partition off with small door access. Bunk with room for one ( poss two !!!) Positioned next to galley again, No means of blocking light out other than ineffective blinds. Annoying noise from cabin temp sensor fan positioned inside area.

Royal Air Force V.I.P transport aircraft :-
Sumptuous double bed, quilt filled with duck feathers, soundproofed with fully stocked bar. Private bath with own W.C

If you want to reduce Human Factors with Long Haul flying, go for the latter option.
If you are going to do it.... do it well.

[MIT]

I hope not to dissappoint you when I will give my conclusions. Your testimony on your work give examples of things to do and other to avoid.
Any ideas where I could fine some photos of cabin rest?
Thanks a lot
MIT

[The Invisible Man]

May be able to email pics to you. Cannot get near RAF aircraft now. What aircraft are you intested in or have you access to so as not to duplicate work.

[MIT]

I have access to airbus info. Do you have Boeings example of rest rooms?
Thanks
Mit

[Grubbykev]

I must say that some of us engineers really should stop knocking the drivers. Has anybody ever driven a car for 12 hours or so & not felt knackered, no I thought not. At Virgin all the 747 400's have 2 crew rests, 1 at the rear of the a/c above the cabin/toilets & 1 at the pointy end next to the flight deck which is essentially just 2 bunks. The one at the rear has a pretty low ceiling & is also bunks only but I've kipped in there with no worries. The A340's also have 2 crew rests with a similar 2 bunk setup at the pointy end & a lower deck crew rest in the rear freight hold with access via a stairway from the cabin. The LDCR however is VERY cramped as there are 7 bunks slotted in there!! If you want some info on crew rests I suggest you contact C.F.Taylor's as they made the airbus crewrests. I hope I've been of some help to you & remember guys if it were'nt for the pilots flying & breaking the kites from time to time we'd be out of a job!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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So many brake packs, so little time. (:¬(

[Low_and_Slow]

For the best I've ever seen see:

http://www.boeing.com/news/feature/777x-launch/crew_rest.html

and

http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/photo.cgi?pw.092500/bb13

(you may need to do some pasting to get these to work)



[This message has been edited by Low_and_Slow (edited 13 November 2000).]

[Dozy Bell]

Grubbykev

when have you ever driven a car for 12 hours? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[Mike E]

On a lighter note, I think we're all in favour of restrooms on aircraft - anything that keeps pilots out of the cockpit and away from anything they might break simply has to be a good thing!

[Denzil]

More to the point when has Grubbykev done ANYTHING for twelve hours other than sleep & whinge!!!!!
Good to see he admits to where he is during work time (crewbunk)!!!!!!!!


On a more serious note, spannersatcx could you drop me an e at the above address as I have a few "Q's" about CX that you may be able to help me with.


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"Noted With Thanks"

[4Rvibes]

Let me know the next time a pilot "flies" a jet for 12 hours and I'll tell you about the theory of autopilot and punching buttons.

[spannersatcx]

Denzil, no e address on your profile.
I've just set up an e-mail at [email protected]


[This message has been edited by spannersatcx (edited 23 November 2000).]

[Grubbykev]

Hey Denzil, It ain't a good idea to talk about dropping E's in public man, especially on pprune. You'll get into trouble again! :rolleyes:

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So many brake packs, so little time. (:¬(