LUTON

[Buster the Bear]

I am hearing 3 based Thomson 757's for next summer, May-Oct inclusive, with minimal 'W' patterns?

Still talk of Thomsonfly, extra Ryanair, pity not a lot more from easyJet until it is a Bus base in 2007?

The 'extra' stands must be on the site of the Short Term Car Park to fit in with the pier extension??

EOS seem to have their act together, recent FAA observed flights using Stansted have gone rather well. Where does this leave FlyFirst operating Low Cost First Class to New York from London's finest?

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[Powerjet1]

Buster

Certainly 2nd edition brochures for S06 seem to confirm 3 x Thomson based 757s for the entire summer period with hardly any Ws. Indeed, for the peak summer period it looks like 4 x based for 3/4 days a week, due to increased freqs. Verona & Bourgas appear as new destinations from LTN.

Looks like further expansion by ryan seems fairly definate now from March, whereas easy, who knows.

As for Fly First, soon to be renamed, Fly Never, I think you can kiss that goodbye.

[pabely]

Buster, did your Asian easyjet maintenance thoughts in June just go Swiss?

https://www.easyjet.com/EN/News/sr_technics_for_total_easyjet_maintenance_support.html

[LGS6753]

Now had time to do a fuller analysis of the 2nd edition Thomson brochure.
There is an increase of 14 Britannia flights per week over 2005. Assuming 200 occupied seats per flight over a 25 week season, that equates to an additional 140,000 passengers next summer.
Changes as follows:

Bourgas - 1 per week, new destination
Corfu - 2nd weekly flight added
Alicante - up from 2 to 5 per week
Malaga - as ALC
Ibiza - Fourth weekly flight added
Kos - dropped (1 pw in 2005)
Palma - Up from 4 to 8
Mahon - as CFU
Rhodes - down from 2 to 1 per week
Tunisia (MIR) - as Bourgas
Dalaman - Up from 1 to 2.

It looks like an attempt to add capacity to the popular loco destinations, and grab a slice of their action. Particularly PMI, ALC, AGP & IBZ.
Isn't it about time one of the locos added LTN-IBZ daily, at least in summer?

[Buster the Bear]

Currently on Thomsonflights.com there are only 3 based airframes, the web site is not showing the 4th?

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[Powerjet1]

Another good month in July. Pax up 21.7% to 911,772. Rolling 12 months up 22.7% to 8,619,477. August should see the 1m pax/month barrier broken.

Great month at LPL likewise.

[dwlpl]

Yes, the rolling year for LPL is near to 3.9million pax up by over 20%.

[Powerjet1]

When I arrived into LTN yesterday and passed through into the new arrivals area( a big improvement on the old one)), I noticed, among the many new desks for onward travel, one for Terravision. Although it was unmanned at the time, I assume then, that Terravision are shortly to start Low Cost coach travel into London from LTN, as they currently do from STN. Certainly, if this happens, they will add to a very substantial number of land travel options into London and to many points around the country.

Anyone know ?

[Buster the Bear]

I have no idea if it is an increase, but expect 14 easyJet Boeing's based for winter 05/06.

Looked last week at www.thomsonflights.com only showing 3 based aircraft for next summer. Might have changed this week though?

One million passengers (or close to) through the tinminal in August...AMAZING!

Stansted still ahead Year Ending 31st July 05
12 month rolling totals (terminal pax)

Heathrow - 67,744,436 up 1.9%
Gatwick - 32,399,161 up 5.6%
Stansted - 21,704,443 up 6.8%
Manchester - 21,685,741 up 5.4%
Birmingham - 8,964,746 down 0.4%
Glasgow - 8,717,959 up 4.8%
Luton - 8,619,477 up 22.7%
Edinburgh - 8,269,376 up 6.3%

Luton should overtake Birmingham soon, Edinburgh has been passed, Glasgow shortly?

Add into the equation the fact that Luton is still one of the busiest airfields in Europe for Biz Jet flights!

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[LBIA]

swefly

looks like swefly are dropping there 3 weekly flights from LTN & LBA to 2 time weekly from September. The Airlines Lahore - Skavasta also drops to 4 time weekly instead of been daily.

looking at the new timetable it looks like all flights to LBA & LTN will be operated by the airlines B767-200 SE-RBV.

new timetable below in PDF.
http://www.swefly.com/files/Tidtabell_utrikes.pdf

[WOWBOY]

Heathrow - 67,744,436 up 1.9%
Gatwick - 32,399,161 up 5.6%
Stansted - 21,704,443 up 6.8%
Manchester - 21,685,741 up 5.4%
Birmingham - 8,964,746 down 0.4%
Glasgow - 8,717,959 up 4.8%
Luton - 8,619,477 up 22.7%
Edinburgh - 8,269,376 up 6.3%

What are the next 10 airports after EDI-I AM LAZY


:ok: :O :ok:

[LGS6753]

LBIA -

How do you work out that SweFly will use their 767? The flight numbers continue to be different for the two legs.

[LBIA]

Heres the revised programme for the swefly B767. This is how i worked it out anyway. See below.

You might be right thou. Who's to say something else might turn up. You never know with theses guys at the moment, So far we have had Transwede RJ70's, Swefly B767-200 and that MD80

MONDAYS
Leeds/Bradford 16:40 Skavasta 20:00 VW443
Skavasta 21:00 Lahore 07:15* VW921

TUESDAYS
Lahore 09:00 Skavasta 12:45 VW922
Skavasta 13:45 Luton 15:55 VW442 (Nightstops Luton)

WEDNESDAYS
Luton 16:40 Skavasta 20:00 VW441
Skavasta 21:00 Lahore 07:15* VW921

Thursdasy
Lahore 09:00 Skavasta 12:45 VW922
Skavasta 13:45 Leeds/Bradford 15:55 VW444
Leeds/Bradford 16:40 Skavasta 20:00 VW443
Skavasta 21:00 Lahore 07:15* VW921

FRIDAYS
Lahore 09:00 Skavasta 12:45 VW922
Skavasta 13:45 Luton 15:55 VW442 (Nightstops Luton)

SATURDAYS
Luton 16:40 Skavasta 20:00 VW441
Skavasta 21:00 Lahore 07:15* VW921

SUNDAYS
Lahore 09:00 Skavasta 12:45 VW922
Skavasta 13:45 Leeds/Bradford 15:55 VW444 (Night Stops Leeds/Bradford)

(* Flight VW921 arrives Lahore 07:15 the next day)

[Powerjet1]

Pax nos at LTN for the Bank Holiday weekend likely to hit 70k, 160k at STN. Most other uk airports expected to do extremely well over the next three days.l

[Powerjet1]

Wizz's winter schedule ex LTN seems to show a net increase in weekly departures of 8 to 48, over W04. Breakdown is BUD 7, GDN 13, KTW 11, POZ 4, WAW 13.

[King Pong]

Used the new inbound passenger facilities a few days ago after the aircraft parked on stand 44 at 4 in the morning. The new lower level walk via the new pier is a big improvement on using the bus but I did note that the escalator was not working and that touching up work on the lower pier has yet to be finished.

The new immigration area is a bit soulless but much bigger than the old area with 9 inspection counters although only 2 were in use when I passed through.

The baggage reclaim area is still a total mess and a real disappointment. At the moment there are still only the 3 original baggage belts in use. Last year I am sure there were 4 but the location of the old domestic belt is now part of the route from immigration to the baggage hall so it has been removed. The new baggage belt that I mentioned a few weeks ago that ascends from the service road in between the new terminal and the new immigration hall doesn’t actually make it into the baggage hall. I could see it through a closed staff door so what it is going to be used for I haven’t a clue. Maybe this is the new domestic belt although I doubt it as domestic passengers would have to cross the path of international arriving passengers in the immigration hall to get to this belt. Also I could not see a passenger entrance only a staff door.

The baggage hall has a temporary wooden wall running through the length of it where the old immigration counters were located so it is clear that the baggage reclaim area is going to be expanded but what really lets the hall down is the state of the floor. The middle section of the hall still has those terrible plastic floor tiles, which wore out around 5 years ago and were randomly replaced with non-matching tiles. I really hope this section will be renewed with new stone tiles.

Our flight was the only flight waiting for luggage but with only 3 visible belts in use and short belts at that it must be a terrible place to be if passengers from 6 or 7 flights are all waiting for luggage.

One of the arriving passengers wanted to go through the red channel and declare something but this area was roped off and as there were no staff on duty in the green channel she got away with what ever she was carrying.

[King Pong]

Some interesting facts can be found in the minutes of a meeting held in June but only released onto the net this month at http://www.llacc.com/CurrentMeeting.asp including a new airport project called Solitaire

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

I would guess that this is the re-development of the two old finger stands near to the run-up bay. They have been out of service for around 10 years (if not more) but because there are already there, bringing them back into service will not need Planning Permission.

Some interesting pieces in the Minutes ... including the need for NATS to explain at the 19th September meeting why lots of planes fly over the Vale of Aylesbury ... answer Luton outbound/inbounds, Heathrow outbounds/inbounds, Stansted outbounds and a few inbounds, London City inbounds .. shall I continue?

[King Pong]

There is not even a hint of those old finger stands in this recent aerial photo http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=506910 my guess is that two new stands will go in opposite stands 47 and 48 which will leave the entrance to the short term car park alone. I wouldn’t have thought that stands here would not need planning permission which was also the case I believe with stands 60 and 61 as the area was already concreted over. They will then put in a pier at some point which already has planning permission to serve these two stands plus stands 46, 47, and 48.

Interesting that there are no plans for a multi story car park

The new baggage belt that I mentioned a few weeks ago that ascends from the service road in between the new terminal and the new immigration hall doesn’t actually make it into the baggage hall. I could see it through a closed staff door so what it is going to be used for I haven’t a clue.

New signage is going up in the terminal which is part covered up. It looks like this belt is going to be used for outsized luggage. This would free up the area to the left of check-in desk 1 for a couple of more check-in desks.

[vintage ATCO]

I would guess that this is the re-development of the two old finger stands near to the run-up bay. They have been out of service for around 10 years (if not more) but because there are already there, bringing them back into service will not need Planning Permission.

Long gone. They disappeared when we built the parallel. And we don't want stands there again, thank you! :rolleyes:

[King Pong]

Recently the stands between 1R to 9L were remarked and repositioned. The following is a list of the maximum sized aircraft these stands can now handle. The days of parking aircraft up to the size of Tristars here are well and truly over.


Stand 1R Boeing 757
Stand 1 Boeing 737-800
Stand 2 Boeing 737-800
Stand 3 Boeing 737-800
Stand 4 Boeing 737-800
Stand 5 Boeing 737-700
Stand 6 Boeing 737-800
Stand 7 Boeing 737-700
Stand 8 Boeing 737-700
Stand 9 Boeing 737-700
Stand 9L Boeing 737-700

Does anyone know if 747's can still be handled on the north apron since the peir was built?

[King Pong]

The following was posted on another thread but is relevant to be posted here.


Well FCA seem to be placing their trust in them, seeing that they have decided to make LTN a permanent base as of November 1. Cabin crew and pilots will be based there all year round in the company's first new permanent base since EMA in November 2002. According to the commercial ops plots, SSH will be operating every Monday from November 7. Along with Ovda on Tuesdays from December until March, Fuerteventura -Wednesdays, Lanzarote - Thursdays, Tenerife - Fridays.

At weekends the aircraft will be going to EDI and GLA for the ski season.

[GrahamK]

BMI Regional launching LTN-BRU
BMI launch LTN-BRU and EDI-MUC (http://www.flybmi.com/trade/en-gb/sectionhome.aspx?p=1904&rid=755)

[nickmanl]

An odd decision by BMI. The route will probably work brilliantly, but BMI will probably cancel it because of their lack of coherent management, then EZY or RYR will step into the frame.

[Powerjet1]

Doesn't seem to be in the booking system as stated in their trade news section, unlike EDI-MUC which is. Good if it is true and somewhat unexpected. However, with Eurostar starting services from St. Pancras in 2007, the route will suffer like easy's CDG.

[bmibaby.com]

The new LTNBRU service is being operated by bmi regional using one of their ERJ-145 aircraft. It'll be interesting to see whether these flights will involve a based aircraft & crew, or whether these will be operated from another base.

Remember that bmi regional is the part of the bmi group that tends to operate high-yield & niche markets, which presumably with no no-frills airline on the route LTNBRU is.

It is a bit confusing at the moment though. bmi will now have three brands in London; bmi from LHR (some routes all-economy no-frills & others with business class), bmibaby at LGW (all economy no-frills) & bmi regional at LTN (economy full-service and business class. :hmm:

[Mark Lewis]

I guess it will run a W pattern through BRU from LBA, EMA, or EDI?

[GrahamK]

Seems to be a LTN based ERJ145 operating LTN-BRU 3 x Daily

[Powerjet1]

GrahamK

Re your last post, is that an inspired guess or do you have other info, since I cannot see any flight details/booking availability on their website.

[LGS6753]

It wouldn't be worth starting a route like this unless it was at least twice daily at business-friendly times (early am/late pm), therefore unlikely to be on 'W' pattern.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

Thomson has cancelled it's Luton to Hurghada service for this winter.

[Daft bat]

I see that Air Force two has been parked on the Harrods apron for the past three days. Does anybody know who is transitting through our local airpot. I must admit the colour scheme of the Air force jets does have class about it.

[vintage ATCO]

I could tell you but . . . . ;)

[LGS6753]

Doh,

Aceatco was going to spill the beans but a man with dark glasses and a bulging coat

aaaarrggh....

[LTNman]

Bush rumoured to have been seen at the local curry house as he investigates Luton’s Muslims in his war on terror. Rumour has it that a cardboard cut out is standing in for him which is touring the southern States.

[Buster the Bear]

26L/08R

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

That's the main runway at Gatwick Buster .. or are you trying to tell us something from your bear pit off to the west?????

[pabely]

Wouldn't it be the main runway if LLIA gets it's way with expansion plans? 4 x 2

[King Pong]

No the existing runway would be 26R and 08L. Buster has written 26L and 08R

[Buster the Bear]

26L/08R Solitaire 2012.

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[King Pong]

Quotes from the last minutes of LONDON LUTON AIRPORT CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE.

“There are currently two projects underway. Project Pegasus is a development of Terminal facilities and Project Solitaire is a development of a further two aircraft stands”

no talk here about runways!

[Buster the Bear]

Did I hint at a link?

ACDL are certainly not investing for a short term gain!

Off to hone my picnic basket snatching skills for London 2012!

First heats are in Brussels during April 2006, so I can shortly book to fly with BMI Regional and arrive on a Jungle Jet with all the other 'monkeys'. By the way, when can I actually book BMI?

According to BMI's 'trade' press release, I should now be able to. Not another Web Master cock up is it? If BMI are so interested in LTN-BRU, so will many others?

Buster the Bear, Olympic Sarnie Snatching Champion

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[King Pong]

26L/08R Solitaire 2012

Did I hint at a link?


yes, why else would you post 26L/08R:confused:

[pabely]

Buster, would you not be representing us in Melbourne in March 2006? Oh, if only Britannia (TUI) still flew to Oz. A 3000ft 26L/08R would allow bears galore to fly long haul.
The ACDL game plan is Long Term gain ;) though for 2012 or 2030?

[Yak97]

Perhaps a 3000m rwy would be more use, unless Buster's flying in his VTOL exec jet again

[King Pong]

The £35 million terminal redevelopment work is officially opened today despite the work not being finished yet. The then 9 month project was started on September 6th 2004 so should have been finished around May.

I wonder if the large lorry sized skip that has taken up residence outside the old terminal will be removed for the opening ceremony. The skip is still required as work continues on gutting the old departure lounge and expanding the baggage hall which was a real mess when I passed through it a week or two back. Well there is no gain without pain but no prizes for guessing that the dignitaries will be kept well away from this area when they arrive at LTN today.

[pabely]

____________________________________________
According to BMI's 'trade' press release, I should now be able to. Not another Web Master cock up is it? If BMI are so interested in LTN-BRU, so will many others?
____________________________________________

Buster can book his 'tiny' flights now at flybmi.com

[King Pong]

The aircraft spends 5 hours at LTN before its second departure. More than enough time for another destination. Also noted is that Luton is not listed as a London airport.

[LTNman]

Stand 60 has been finished now for over 4 months and still hasn’t been brought into service for self-parking easyjet 737’s which it was designed for. No prizes then that the BMI Embraer will be night stopped on this stand due to its small size and the fact that those easyjet’s don’t really fit.

[Buster the Bear]

Did Luton hit a 'Million in a Month' during August 2005?

Did anyone else get a consultation document glossing over the 'new runway' in thier local free newspaper?

26L/08R. Buster told you first!

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[LTNman]

Luton would need an increase of 24% compared to last August to pass the 1,000,000 barrier. The July increase was 21.7% with the trend of a slowly dropping percentage increase each month since the peak of around 33%, which occurred around March. My guess is that we will have to wait to around June or July 2006. Of course I could be completely wrong.


Runway questions

1/ If Gatwick can achieve 30million passengers on one runway why does LTN need two seeing that Luton are becoming experts in keeping costs down.

2/ Why does Luton need a 3000m runway which is still not long enough for fully loaded 747's and not needed by easyjet or Ryanair type operators?

3/ Would the extra length be cost effective in generating extra business compared to LTN’s 2160m existing runway?

4/ Apart for a few cargo flights how many Stansted's movements could not use LTN's existing runway ?

[LGS6753]

The extra runway investment would presumably allow:

More payload availability for marginal destinations. These would presumably include Egypt and the future charter destination - Dubai.

It would allow ETOPS aircraft to reach the US East Coast and Canada. Luton has had almost no transatlantic charters over the years. 3000m would make these more likely. By cutting out stops at Bangor, Florida flights would be more cost-effective.

A longer runway with high-speed run-off taxiways would increase the movement capacity. I don't think there's room at present for full-length taxiways to both 26 and 08. If there were, capacity would increase.

In short, little change to the European routes, but the chance for more medium and long haul.

[nickmanl]

LTNman, doesn't the growth at Luton depend on low cost airlines and charter airlines, none of which operate 747's and I doubt they will in the future. I really can't see BA or Virgin basing 747's at Luton, and American airlines hardly use them nowadays anyway.

A 3000m runway would surely allow for the further away destinations to be operated by charter airlines. First choice have those 787's on order, and a 767 or A330 would have no trouble lifting off for transatlantic flights of this length of a runway, both of which have operated to the US before from Luton.

The 777 (I know it was travelling light) took off with ease carrying the England squad to Dubai for the 2002 World Cup.

[CAP670]

1/ If Gatwick can achieve 30million passengers on one runway why does LTN need two seeing that Luton are becoming experts in keeping costs down.

Luton doesn't need two runways and the intention isn't to operate them in a Heathrow mode, but instead, as Gatwick does at present.

2/ Why does Luton need a 3000m runway which is still not long enough for fully loaded 747's....?

Incorrect - the obstruction environment at Luton means that 3000 metres as a Take-Off RUN is perfectly adequate for a fully loaded B747 going long-haul, because the Take-Off DISTANCE would be longer due to the elevation of the airfield. In any event, Manchester operates perfectly well with a Take-Off Run of 3048 metres.

3/ Would the extra length be cost effective in generating extra business compared to LTN’s 2160m existing runway?

The comparative cost has shown that it's actually less expensive to construct a new runway than to infill the land to the east end of the existing runway.

The Project 2030 initiative is absolutely NOT some half-baked LIA/LBC 1980s-style 'fag packet' exercise being undertaken by Luton Town Hall's Highways Dept., such as has been the historic means of doing business at LTN. It's a multi-million pound project by the new airport operators who actually know something about running big airports, and who have engaged a range of international consultants to advise on the required infrastructure and to draw up the necessary options and plans.

To grasp what's actually going on, LTNman, you need to 'think outside the box' and whilst you're at it, dump the 1980s Luton mindset together with your flares and kipper ties....

;)

[LTNman]

I do think outside the box, well I like to think I do. The questions about the runway were more to do with stimulating a discussion about the future of LTN which it has done. Thanks!
:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

Stansted has:

05R 05L 23R 23L

Gatwick has:

08R 08L 26R 26L

Luton wants?

08R 08L 26R 26L

No mention on the consultation document put out to local folk that Luton would have 2 continual operational runways, just a 'new' runway.

My guess, and I am only a bear, is that the existing runway would become emergency/contingency/taxiway. 3000m to depart from, with less to land on, thus keeping the aircraft 'higher' on final approach than using the 3000m thresholds, so keeping the noise down? Modern jets do not need huge runways to land upon, mind you, what needs 3000 meters for departure?

BMI to base a Jungle Jet, what next, BA to follow BMI up the M1????

3000m runway, BMI moving in, what next? Ryanair buying A380's and operating them to the USA!

Buster.....It must be my medication!

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[Powerjet1]

King Pong

With the BMI aircraft spending five hours at LTN between the first & second flight to BRU, I would have thought that would have been ripe for another destination such as a daily MUC to be slotted in. That particular route has not been served since the demise of Debonair and was one of its best routes at the time. Would imagine that would do well.

[Buster the Bear]

Cork, Knock, Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Jersey, Leeds (my outside guess, re-crews?), a French second home owner destination, Rotterdam, Munich is quite possible? Where do the Vauxhall/Renault Kingairs originate from?

A single rotation would dictate a leisure route within 1.5 hours from Luton?

http://static.zsl.org/images/width150/bear-04-web-305.jpg

[LTNman]

Looking at the contours on my Ordnance Survey map, any new runway would have to be off set by quite a distance to avoid land that drops away quite steeply at the 08 end as it follows the railway line. My guess is that a new runway will be proposed around a mile to the south of the existing runway, which would put it just north of Chiltern Green. It might also not have a 08 / 26 orientation due to the lack of 3000m of relatively flat land following that direction. My guess is that a new runway will point more towards a northeast – southwest direction. By doing this approach and takeoffs will avoid flying over all towns including Luton and Stevenage.
The circle marks a position just south of where I think the runway could be. http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=51.8631&lon=-0.3535&scale=25000&icon=x
Note the spot measurements shown on the map of 151m just south of Diamond End, 146m just north of my circle and the 150m contour line to the west of Chiltern Green. A new airport would then be created in between the two runways.


Remember each contour line represents 10m/ 30ft of rising or falling land which means a new runway will not be placed next to the existing runway as Gatwick did. Land just south of the existing LTN runway peaks at around 160m but drops to 120m at around where a new 3000 m 26L runway would start.

[CAP670]

It might also not have a 08 / 26 orientation due to the lack of 3000m of relatively flat land following that direction. My guess is that a new runway will point more towards a northeast – southwest direction

LTNman, this orientation was examined in detail and rejected because of the adverse airspace and route interaction with Heathrow traffic (especially when Heathrow is landing 09L/09R) and Bovingdon to the southwest of LTN.

The 'final' choice - based on the consultants' and NATS' input - will be published for wider public consultation in the near future.

Rest assured that for the supporters and users of LTN as opposed to the NIMBYs and NOPEs, that choice will - if all goes well - in some seven years propel Luton directly from League Division 3 into League Division 1 and will give BAA and Stansted the sort of head-on competition that could otherwise, only be introduced by transporting Manchester Airport down the M6 and M1 to a location just south of Luton.

As for Runway 08L/26R, the chosen alignment, length and layout and the various 'environmental trade-offs' will leave you sleeping more peacefully for most of the night, and also absolutely staggered...

:ok:

[LTNman]

I thought that by swinging the runway so it had more of a Stansted heading would improve things in that direction. Forgot about Heathrow and the Bovindgon stack.

I still recon that a new runway will be proposed close to my circle no matter what direction it points. No doubt where ever it is put there will be people who are at the moment sleeping in ignorant bliss who are about to become vocal campaigners against the airport.

So is Hertfordshire about to get its first international airport????

[King Pong]

So lets look forward say 25 years. Luton has a new 3000m runway and a new terminal built on Hertfordshire land. The old runway is now hardly used and the old existing aprons are now only used for executive jets, cargo and aircraft that are in for maintenance. BA who moved out of Gatwick to Luton is one of Luton’s biggest airlines.

So here are the questions.

Would TBI continue to pay a concession fee to Luton Council seeing that their passengers never touched Luton soil?

If the town’s borders were moved to encompass the new airport would a fee then be due?

If TBI closed and dug up taxiway links to the old airport and then handed it back to the council at the end of its concession could the council claim ownership of the new airport, which was leased out for 30 years?

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Buster - they come from Toussus Le Noble .. i.e. Paris.

[nickmanl]

I know its hypothetically speaking but the airport isn't really looking at flag carries for their development, although if they decide to base a few aircraft at luton I'm sure there will be no objection.

LTN is looking at the growth to come from the low cost and charter airlines, and BA are already thinking about withdrawing their daily IOM service.

[CAP670]

(ACDL)So lets look forward say 25 years

King Pong - the first question to be addressed is whether Airport Concessions and Development Limited (ACDL) still has the Concession to run LTN. TBI before it was subsumed by ACDL expressed a desire to extend to 50 years which would take the Concession to around 2050. This represents a far more realistic business deal for ACDL than the 30 years originally let, simply because of the vast expenditure necessary to reverse the previous 20 years decline under the penny-pinching incompetent ownership of Luton Borough Council (LBC).

If ACDL does still have a Concession - new or extended - then whatever concession fee is agreed, it would still be paid to LBC.

Although the proposed Project 2030 development lies in parts of Herts, there is a precedent in that some years ago, the county boundary between Sussex and Surrey was jinked to fully encompass Gatwick at the time of further development. There's no reason why this could not again be done.

Irrespective, ACDL would still presumably pay business rates and one assumes that if the boundary wasn't altered, this would be to both councils on a proportionate basis.

Not sure if ACDL has the right to close down and dig up the 'old' i.e. existing Airport, anyway.

One thing is almost 99% certain. If the Concession does expire in 2030 and LTN goes back into direct LBC control, any further progress would immediately cease and the place would once more, simply fall into a steady decline.

LBC and its 'management' were incapable of effectively marketing and efficiently running LTN when it was handling just 1.5M annual passengers 85% of whom were 'bucket and spade' punters.

It's almost inconceivable that LBC would have or would be able to employ a management team with the ability to effectively market and efficiently run LTN at +/- 30M annual passengers!

My money's on an extended or re-negotiated Concession with ACDL - that way, LTN continues to move ahead with a professional and specialist management whilst LBC (and perhaps also eventually Herts CC) stand around with their grubby hands outstretched...

:ok:

[TightSlot]

Working in the cabin for a UK charter operator out of LTN, I'm experiencing a high volume of complaints from customers on boarding at the new gates, about:


The distance to walk to the gates
An extreme shortage of seats airside
Sometimes an excessive number of steps


Does anybody know if there are any plans to improve any of these issues, and if so, of the timescale?

Many thanks in anticipation.

[ezpz]

EZY cabin crew have now been instructed inform passengers on descent that they may experience delays at immigration, and recommend they use the toilets before landing. Not exactly giving a great first impression of LTN.

Passengers are now getting lost in the baggage hall because they have to do a 180 degree turn to enter the customs hall. Saw loads wandering around looking for the exit.

I hope they complete the redevelopment work soon.

[LTNman]

Working in the cabin for a UK charter operator out of LTN, I'm experiencing a high volume of complaints from customers about the distance to walk to the gates :

Charter airlines only use the new pier which is the short walk. Ryanair passengers and some easyjet passengers get the long walk so I don't know why your passengers are moaning.

An extreme shortage of seats airside

Agreed this is a real problem that can’t be resolved in the new lounge due to the lounge actually being a shopping centre. Shops earn money for the airport while seating doesn’t. What passengers don’t realise is that the old lounge is still open and has several hundred empty seats but it’s a 15 minute return walk to access them.

Sometimes an excessive number of steps

poor design but at the end of the day people are lazy now and don't like walking up and down stairs.

EZY cabin crew have now been instructed inform passengers on descent that they may experience delays at immigration, and recommend they use the toilets before landing. Not exactly giving a great first impression of LTN. Passengers are now getting lost in the baggage hall because they have to do a 180 degree turn to enter the customs hall. Saw loads wandering around looking for the exit.


It's not finished yet and should improve in a few weeks. Don’t know why there is a problem with immigration as it is twice the size of the old facilities with 9 desks. Might have more to do with a lack of staff but that is an issue for the government.

[Buster the Bear]

Lack of seats airside, long distance walking, now who complained about the same during early July?

Now you need to have a 'pee' before you land as locating a 'loo' could well be a challenge after you disembark!

What a laugh...NOT!

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[TightSlot]

Thanks LTNman for your thoughts. It is interesting that, although presumably factual and accurate, there is not one of those answers that I can relay to a customer and that will make them feel better about their complaint.

[King Pong]

There are certainly no toilets on the walk from the original gates and I can’t remember any on the walk from the new pier. Now I think about it I don’t remember seeing any in the immigration hall. It’s only when passengers pass into the baggage hall that toilets are provided but I think they are closed due to the building work.

Could the lack of toilets pre immigration have something to do with asylum seekers flushing documents down the toilet?

When I flew out of Luton a couple of weeks ago the toilets in the new pier were in a disgusting state. There were used paper towels all around the washbasins and on the floors as no hand dryers had been fitted and the bins were overflowing. Apparently this was the same in the Ladies.

As for seating there is plenty of room for some seating to be provided in the new pier but I counted only 2 sets of 4 seats. Most passengers who want to sit down end up sitting on the low level windowsills.

The 2 escalators in the new pier which transport passengers over the service road bridge were also still not working.

[Powerjet1]

Picture in the local Sunday paper of Alastair Darling officially opening the new departure lounge/arrivals hall last Thursday. Bet he had no problem finding a seat & I sure the toilets were in a 'superb' condition from just prior to his arrival and for a few minutes after he and the other VIPs had left .

See that Terravision have now launched their low-cost coach service from LTN to Victoria, with services opearting 24 hrs a day, every 20 mins. Stops made at Brent Cross, Baker St, Marble Arch on route to Victoria. Basically a rebranding of the previous Green Line service with better timings.

[King Pong]

I saw on TV passengers being interviewed about the new lounge. The comments were very positive but some passengers commented on the lack of seating.

[Buster the Bear]

Ryanair launch Luton-Knock starting from October. Daily flight.

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[Powerjet1]

Yep. Seems to be filling the gap, timewise, for the loss of the Esbjerg route back to STN. Very similar.

[Buster the Bear]

From the thomsonfly announcement today, it does indeed look like a 4th airframe to be Luton based next summer although you cannot book the 'high frequency' routes to Ibiza, Palma, Malaga and Alicante just yet at www.thomsonfly.com?

http://hosting.twofourtv.com/tui/september_webcast/view_presentation.asp

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[Buster the Bear]

Flights are now available to book, but it is rather confussing, www.thomsonfly.com has different flights to www.thomson.co.uk and therefore they are running two rather similar brands on four of the same destinations, Alicante, Palma, Ibiza and Malaga!

So will there be 3xThomson and 1xThomsonFly based next summer?

I am sure someone out there can explain this bizarre marketing to me?

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[King Pong]

The Thomsonfly timetable looks more like a charter service than a scheduled service. Flights run on average 4 or 5 times a week at different times each day with plenty of red eye specials.

[Powerjet1]

I hope the market is big enough. Taking LTN- AGP as just one example, from May 06, it will have 41 scheduled weekly departures spread around easy, monarch & Thomsonfly, plus charters.

[airhumberside]

See that Terravision have now launched their low-cost coach service from LTN to Victoria, with services opearting 24 hrs a day, every 20 mins. Stops made at Brent Cross, Baker St, Marble Arch on route to Victoria. Basically a rebranding of the previous Green Line service with better timings.
It looks like the Green Line branding will be kept. The Terravison website lists the service operated in partnership with Green Line.

[Buster the Bear]

I must buy shares in a concrete manufacturing firm!

It could be a busy apron creating winter again!

So why are Luton's 'largest' based airline loath to expand thier locally based product? They are taking thier eyes off their home base?

The future for Luton next year, clearly is NOT ORANGE!

BMI Regional
Wizz
Britannia....Whoops...Thomson/Fly/Flights/cheap

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[King Pong]

It’s not a bad thing that the future is not orange. Only a few years ago it appeared that all of LTN’s eggs were in one basket, which is a dangerous thing. With only very limited short term expansion available a selection of airlines will secure LTN’s future.

If 2 new stands are built this winter then my bet is that they will be built in the short term car park as I believe planning permission will not be required and planning permission already exists for a new pier to link this area to the terminal. Digging up the grass for new stands is a different story and planning permission would be required which could take some time. My guess is for new stands opposite stand 47 and 48.

[Buster the Bear]

As I have said before, until Luton beomes an Airbus base, we can expect little expansion from easyJet?

This does of course leave the 'door' wide open for others to fill the void. I hope, I really hope that others do, as easyJet seem to have forgotten thier roots....Nov 1995, the start of the Low-Cost revolution in Europe. Two GB Airways 737's. 'Charlie Golf & Charlie Hotel' painted in easyOrange 01582 292929! (£29 for a pair of quality jeans)

Ryanair would like to think that they kicked the fares war off, but Stelios was the leader!

"Scotland for a pair of jeans"

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[Powerjet1]

Wait till Nov 10th !!!.

[King Pong]

For what. More meat please!

[Buster the Bear]

10th Nov is 10th anniversary of easyJet's first flight.

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[Powerjet1]

King Pong

Sorry, value my life too much. Patience required.

Luton didn't break the 1m pax in August. Had 933,857, up 15.6%. Annual 12m now 8.74m, beating GLA by a wisper.

[Buster the Bear]

So 'news' expected on Nov 10th. That is either easyJet expanding, or another airline trying to steal the media from the 10th anniversary celebrations?

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[King Pong]

Has to be Ryanair news or will protect 2030 details be released on that day?

I know, that's the day the fence by the short term car park is going to be cleared of rubbish!

[Powerjet1]

Understand the new owners are working their butts off in many areas at the present time. The next 6 to 12 months could be very interesting at LTN, even, if just some of them come to fruition. Perhaps, at last, LTN will come of age.

Definately a case of 'Watch this Space'

[LTNman]

Annual 12m now 8.74m, beating GLA by a wisper.

This is big news as LTN is now number 6 in the UK. Next target is Birmingham with 9.04m

[King Pong]

Understand the new owners are working their butts off in many areas at the present time. The next 6 to 12 months could be very interesting at LTN

They should start with resurfacing the short term car park

[Buster the Bear]

Following on from all the publicity that occured with the official opening of the 'new departure lounge', which included a visit from Mr Darling MP and other local lesser MP's. In the background was a Spanish representitive of ACDL.

I would suggest that the Spanish are doing quite a lot of work relating to Luton in the background. One aspect I would guess, is to extend the length of the concession remaining with LBC to make the massive investment necessary, work for the consortium over a longer period.

If anyone had suggested to me 10 years ago that Luton would be shifting 10 million plus pax per year, I would have told them that they were becoming insane, so I will not hazard to guess just what the next 10 years might bring!

You might even see the short-term car park re-surfaced!

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[LTNman]

First week in July the airport handled 2304 movements or 329 a day.

[Buster the Bear]

August movement figures will be subdued, just like every previous August, due to the lack of Business Jet activity. September will however, be a key indicator?

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[vintage ATCO]

365 moves last Friday (9th), 360 on Monday, 355 yesterday. Today should be interesting.

[ebenezer]

Can't be much more than five years ago that Stansted was peaking at 400 movements a day whilst Luton was peaking at 200 - how times have changed!

The combined daily movement peaks for Stansted and Luton must now outweigh Gatwick.

[Powerjet1]

Based on the CAA stats for the last 12 months, LGW had 249,645 movements, while LTN had 72,240 & STN 177,645, Total 249,890. So yes, combined , LTN & STN movements have overtaken LGW -just.

[LTNman]

Not all of LTN’s executive jets movements show in CAA stats. I know it is not very scientific but if LTN was averaging 329 movements a day in the first week in July that makes it around 119,759 movements per 364 day year excluding Christmas. If Vintage ATCO’s average figures are used that would make it 131,040. I guess Gatwick doesn’t get that many non airline movements so their figure is correct.

[CAP670]

Luton's actual annual movements on a rolling basis are currently approx 95,000 - this figure includes all corporate/GA flights and all helicopter movements (corporate and the Luton-based Chiltern Air Support Unit).

Stansted also handles a significant number of corporate/GA flights (although not as many as Luton).

Therefore, the combined rolling total for Luton and Stansted is probably in the region of 280,000 which is certainly more than Gatwick.

If growth continues albeit, at a more modest pace, the combined annual total could reach +/- 300,000 (i.e. Luton 100,000 and Stansted 200,000) by the end of 2006.

By which time of course, the local NIMBYs (many of whom admit to flying from both airports...) will decidedly :mad: off!!!

[Buster the Bear]

Rumour on the grapevine is that ACDL are looking to buy land at Jct 10 M1, money no object and want the facilities that it will bring in place by the London Olympics. ACDL rumoured to be on a huge land purchase trail!

Talk of land being exchanged for the 'old' Vauxhall site.

Not too sure where this leaves the 'Homeless Hatter's' whose new stadium was bound for Jct10?

This would seem to fit in with the new runway in place by 2012? Our Spanish friends seem to have some deep pockets?

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[Powerjet1]

Must be a wind up!.

As I understand it, development of the old Vauxhall site, plans for which have now been made public, include provision for a Premium Car Park for the airport, on a small part of the land. The rest will be for housing, high tech industrial units & 5 star hotel etc.

Luton Town FC are due any day now, to unveil their stadium plans for Jct 10 with the proposed developer, which was initially for a brand new 15,000 seater, but due to their early success in the Championship, is now likely to be modified to 20,000 with provision to increase to 25,000. Should be ready for the start of the 2007 season.

Of course, we all know things change don't we!!!!!!!!

If just a small proportion of the discussions currently taking place between ACDL & various parties come off, 10m pax by Nov/Dec 2006 is virtually guaranteed, Could be even slightly more.

[LTNman]

This is from page 5 of this thread but worth repeating here

ENVIRONMENTALISTS fear a group of developers and landowners have joined with
Luton Airport operators to pressure for building on Green Belt land near
Harpenden.
The group, calling itself the South East Luton Strategic Alliance (Selsa),
owns or has option to buy land stretching from East Hyde to Breachwood Green
and as far as Offley.
London Luton Airport has joined with local landowners and developers to
promote the Selsa concept of planned and phased development linked with
enhanced and new transport infrastructure on land either side of the airport
to the south and east of Luton.
"SELSA is based on the simple idea of using existing transport links and
others which are planned in a combined and co-ordinated fashion".
A spokesman for Luton Borough Council said it was not part of the alliance,
but confirmed that the developers involved are Legal and General, Bloor
Homes, Crown Estates, Newcomb Estates, New Road Limited and Redway

[Powerjet1]

Noticed that all the new Thomsonfly spanish destinations to be operated under the new frequent shuttle service, starting May 06, seem to have 1 hour turnarounds. Does this mean that the fourth based aircraft at LTN next summer will automatically be a 757 to intermix with other charter services?.

[Buster the Bear]

I was told that the housing on the Vauxhall site might not happen due to its 'brown field' origins and the costs to clean it up? That could leave room for alternative development from the original planning application?

Whatever the outcome, ACDL (Abertis) have been mentioned in association with the land destined for the stadium and anciliary developments at Jct 10.

The announcement about the new stadium was scheduled for last week and has been delayed again.

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[King Pong]

I see someone managed to wreck one of the airports shiny newish 4 wheel drive vehicles last week. It looks like it ended up on its roof after it rolled over and was covered in clumps of grass and mud. I guess some of those grass embankments around the perimeter track are steeper than they look.

[Buster the Bear]

Lots of rumours circulating on the various Luton Town FC web forums relating to LBC, Abertis, M1 Jct 10, LTFC's new ground, and the empty Vauxhall site!

Soccer fans talking about Abertis from LTFC dealings with the consortium planning a new ground, and discussions with LBC.

Smoke....Fire......!! Just reporting what is being said elsewhere!

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[LTNman]

If just a small proportion of the discussions currently taking place between ACDL & various parties come off, 10m pax by Nov/Dec 2006 is virtually guaranteed, Could be even slightly more

So what is the capacity of the airport within its existing boundaries and how many passengers can this terminal actually take? When built the terminal was claimed to have a capacity of 5 million, no doubt a figure picked to avoid a public enquiry.

[Buster the Bear]

I cannot see Luton Borough Council capping the passengers numbers using the existing facilities, think of all those concession fees that they would miss out on!

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[Powerjet1]

Wizz have now commenced flights between Luton & Poznan and have already announced an extra flight. Taken from their website.....

'The first full flight arrived from London Luton airport at 7 pm local time with 180 passengers on board. The first flights are up to 100% booked and forecast indicate over 80% loadfactor for the next 3 months.

Initially Poznañ is served by four flights a week, but due to a very strong demand for Wizz Air’s Poznan-London Luton service more flights will be added already in winter. Starting from 1 December, the airline will increase its capacity by 25% adding its fifth flight per week. Announcement on further routes to be launched early 2006 will be made shortly'.

[nickmanl]

These Wizz flights, does anyone know how busy they are flying back to Poland?

I understand why they are rammed coming into the Uk with Poland now part of the EU but I would be interested to see their load factors for return flights....

[Buster the Bear]

Is the BMI Regional route in addition to announced Brussels, to Munich:

Passengers to Munich please note . . we don't have permission to fly yet

ALAN RODEN
TRANSPORT REPORTER


TICKETS for direct flights from Edinburgh to Munich have appeared for sale on the internet before an airline has been given permission to fly the route.

Holidaymakers are already able to book flights to Germany in 2006 on BMI's website, even though Edinburgh Airport has not officially won the right to fly planes there.


It is believed BAA, the owners of the airport, have been battling with Luton and Glasgow to secure the route. But all the signs now indicate that direct flights to the Bavarian capital will start on March 26 next year.

Germany is likely to be an extremely successful destination for BAA, with other European cities such as Barcelona and Geneva now among the most popular weekend break destinations for Edinburgh travellers.

Munich will also be hosting a number of World Cup games next summer, offering BMI the chance to make a huge profit from football fans, while the popular Oktoberfest beer festival is likely to attract thousands of customers.

A BAA spokeswoman said: "We have been in discussions with a number of airlines and we would be delighted if a direct flight to Munich starts up."

A formal announcement on the route is expected before the end of October. It would not be the first time Edinburgh Airport has offered flights to Munich - failed airline Duo flew there for six months but folded in May 2004.

Currently, the possible destinations in Germany are Cologne, which is served by the Germanwings airline, and Hamburg - served by Hapag-Lloyd Express.

But BMI would be the first major airline to fly to the country from the Capital, adding to an extensive list of destinations which includes Brussels, Copenhagen, Faro and Palma.

Council leader Donald Anderson said he would be "absolutely delighted" if the Munich flights were officially confirmed.

"Munich is one route we are very keen to secure," he said. "We have had discussions with BAA and BMI about this."

Lothians MSP Kenny MacAskill said the route would bring huge benefits to both Edinburgh and Scotland.

"There is clearly a desire on BMI's behalf to fly to Munich and we have to do everything possible at government and council level to make sure this goes ahead," he said. "Bavaria is a huge economic area, which is good news for Edinburgh, and if Scotland gets to the World Cup then these flights would also be a major bonus."

According to the BMI website, there will be two direct flights each weekday, departing Edinburgh at 6.55am and 4.05pm. Return flights are at 11am and 8.15pm, while there will be one flight in each direction on weekends.

Graham Bell, of the Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce, said he had been involved in recent discussions about the route.

"It is very important that we expand air links, and in particular to cities that are similar to Edinburgh. Munich is a holiday destination and has a very productive economy," he said. "This is very significant both commercially and culturally, and it would bring mutual benefits to both cities."

No-one at BMI was available for comment.

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[Buster the Bear]

Buy shares in concrete laying firms now!

Looks like powerjet1 is correct if the rumours I have been told today, come true! I cannot divulge yet.

BLIMEY!

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[LTNman]

Lots of rumours circulating on the various Luton Town FC web forums relating to LBC, Abertis, M1 Jct 10, LTFC's new ground, and the empty Vauxhall site!

So who can remember the front page story in the Luton News dated around the early 90’s complete with an artists impression of a new large landside terminal where Luton Airport Parkway station is now located. After checking-in passengers board a monorail to take them to the existing terminal, which is now totally airside. The ground floor of the existing terminal having been converted as an additional airside lounge so doubling its capacity.

[Powerjet1]

Buster

Obviously don't know of the rumours you heard yesterday but if they are similar to those I've come across,( and some are definately more than rumours) then 2006 will be a very exciting year in many ways, and the years that follow.

Luton growing up, shaking off it somewhat tarnished image of the past, with a great mix of flights to match. Taken as a serious player. Yes!!!


PS. Helvetic start their second daily ZRH-LTN flight today. As well as the evening flight they now have 08.30 arr LTN, dep 09.10 to ZRH.

[Powerjet1]

Wizz have become quite established at Luton since their inception last year, and are pushing a considerable number of pax through the airport. A small section taken from the airport's website.....

"Since the start of operations in May 2004 Wizz Air have carried 2 million passengers on their network - over 600,000 of whom have flown through London Luton Airport".

Poznan going to five flights weekly from 1 December with a further three new destinations rumoured to follow in 2006, which would give Wizz 10 destinations ex LTN, eight of which would be served direct.

[Powerjet1]

Can anyone confirm if construction of a second pier, effectively opposite tne new pier, on the eastern apron, and boardering the short-term carpark, falls within existing planning permission ?.
Concreting over 50% of the existing STCP, to make way for another 3-6 stands , I assume does not.

Finally, with the new departure lounge open, and other developments taking place at the moment, isn't the max capacity of the terminal now set at 12m ?.

[King Pong]

Planning permission for a second pier was part of the original planning consent given in 1998 for the new terminal, east and northern aprons. Planning Permission has to be activated within 5 years though not necessarily completed in that time scale.

There was a separate application and permission for the new immigration and deep search link building.

It is debatable whether planning permission is required for the conversion of part of the short-term car park for aircraft stands. Last year the airside coach park by taxiway echo became stands 60 and 61. I remember reading some old minutes of the London Luton Airport Consultative Committee where it was raised that the stands didn’t need planning permission but maybe by moving the airside fence it does.

[Warwick Hunt]

So looking at the new and potential EU map, how much longer until we see flights from Luton to:

Estonia
Latvia
Romania
Bulgaria
Malta
Turkey
Greece (other than Athens)?

[Buster the Bear]

Romania and Bulgaria, possible Wizz! destinations with the potential liberalisation of the skies ahead of EU entry, just like Poland did?

Sure to see more Spanish airlines with the clout that Aena has in Spain? They are like a BAA and NATS combined.

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[Powerjet1]

Monarch Schd are likely to add up to two/possibly three new destinations by June 06,which is about time to. However, due to increased freqs on existing routes from Nov 1, winter 06 schedules are a 40% increase on winter 05.

[King Pong]

What is Luton’s outbound flow rate when in RVR’s? Just heard ATC tell a Citation that they are number 12 to leave the apron (7:25) with the queue getting longer by the minute.

[Powerjet1]

Still just the one weekly flight on a saturday between LTN & JER with Flybe for S06, starting 6 May. I'm sure the market is bigger than this. Perhaps Thomsonfly might look at putting on a couple of flights a week now they are introducing a 737 to LTN.

[vintage ATCO]

King Pong

He was no. 12 in the departure queue which inc 7 already on the taxiway system. ('The bases were loaded' :D ) We got everyone away in the end without too much delay.

[CAP670]

What is Luton’s outbound flow rate when in RVR’s?

There's no outbound flow rate: but a reduced overall flow rate from the 'normal' 32/hour is imposed when the RVR drops below 700 metres, and a further reduction when it drops below 400 metres. This procedure is precisely the same as applied at other major airports, e.g. Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester and Stansted, which is why delays go 'through the roof' at these busy locations when it's foggy. However, it's designed to safeguard the integrity of operations and to facilitate the enhanced separation required for landing aircraft that are undertaking 'autoland' approaches and landings.

The lack of seats in Pier 'A' (Pier 'B' will be constructed within 18 months) is due to planning constraints imposed by the Luton Borough Council i.e. no seating allowed. However, to comply with disability requirements, limited 'disabled seating' will now be installed.

BTW, annual rolling TOTAL movements for LTN are now over 105,000 ~ this includes all corporate/biz-jet flights ~ and the busiest day ever was last week at 372 movements.

If the rumoured additional services appear, 400 movements should be regularly achieved on some days of the week next year.

Should be quite challenging on the local roads...

:hmm:

[King Pong]

The lack of seats in Pier 'A' (Pier 'B' will be constructed within 18 months) is due to planning constraints imposed by the Luton Borough Council i.e. no seating allowed. However, to comply with disability requirements, limited 'disabled seating' will now be installed.

Something fishy here, how can the council limit seating? When football stadiums were made all seaters the ground capacity was cut. By making people stand up would actually increase capacity. What is to stop the airport authority moving some of existing seats from the old departure lounge to the new pier seeing that it is all one building now. Most of the old seating is unused now and the new lounge has less seating than the old lounge due to the large number of shops.

[vintage ATCO]

~ and the busiest day ever was last week at 372 movements.

379 back in June . . . ;)

[Powerjet1]

Heard yesterday from a reliable source, that LTN is now likely to see two new ( new to LTN that is) airlines operating services to/from the airport from mid-April 06. Of these, one is most definately foreign based and I believe currently uses STN. The second is UK based. There is also a third foreign airline involved, but negotiations are not so advanced so this may or may not happen. None of the above will actually base aircraft at LTN but are likely to operate routes into the airport daily from several european cities.

All this on top of the recently rumoured expansion, in many forms, from existing & new sources, which will become public knowledge within the next two/three months.

Where are they all going to park? Interesting times.

[nickmanl]

What money on the foreign airline being Sky Europe?

[Powerjet1]

What money on the foreign airline being Sky Europe?


Keep your money in your wallet. It is not an eastern european airline.

[ebenezer]

Should be quite challenging on the local roads...

It'll also be challenging in the local airspace, which often seems unable to cope with the present number of Luton's flights (if the number of last-minute outbound delays are anything to go by). What are the CAA doing about this (apart from dragging their feet)?? What are the airport doing about this (apart from relying on the CAA)??

:confused:

[airhumberside]

Keep your money in your wallet. It is not an eastern european airline.
Air Berlin, Norweigan?

[King Pong]

Story from http://www.abtn.co.uk/

LUTON AIRPORT'S infamous pre-boarding lounges (the official title), better known to regulars as “The cattle pen”, have gone. These windowless ground floor rooms where passengers waited prior to walking across the apron to board their aircraft, each held a (tight) 150-passenger easyJet load. A small number of seats were provided for disabled passengers but for the rest it meant just standing in one of three lines in the hope that it would quickly move. With the new and airy first floor lounge passengers still have to wait in line, but many more seats are provided for the infirm and elderly and there is even a lift available, much used by mothers with toddlers in tow. The whole thing is more civilised
-----------------------------------------------------

There is something not quite right about this story as the pens are still there so they must be still in use. Are they saying that passengers now queue in the lounge? That doesn't sound right either

[King Pong]

There are plans afoot to extend the terminal south and add 8 stands at 2 locations.

[Buster the Bear]

Air Berlin are the third largest airline behind Ryanair and easyJet in terms of passengers at Stansted, so I doubt if the BAA would let them go without a fight? Having said that, Air Berlin fly to a lot of Spanish airports operated by Aena. Aena are one of the consortium partners operating Luton!

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[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

I would have also thought that Air Berlin's "new route subsidies" must be running out soon as well.

Food for thought?

[Buster the Bear]

Picnic baskets are 'food for thought'!

November 10th, the big media gathering for easyJet's 10th birthday. Rumours of a 'big' announcement to spoil the party?

You cannot book beyond April 2nd 2006 on Air Berlin's web site currently.

If ACDL pull off Air Berlin, I will be nice to all my visitors for a day!

You can feel the shrink wrapping on easyLand tightening every day as we approach thier 10th birthday and thier party gate crashing!

Rumours, we love em eh!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[LTNman]

I see work has started on the M1 widening scheme between airport and the M25. What is needed now is something to be done to Junction 10A which is the half mile motorway link to the A505.

Since BAE moved into Capability Green from London with its 4 figure work force the tailback extends onto the M1 slip road in the mornings and along the A505 in the evenings. Next week TUI/ Thomson move out of their London offices and together with Britannia which is moving its offices out of the airport will occupy the top three floors of Wigmore Place http://www.pro-view.co.uk/wigmore/about/index.htm. Wigmore Place is described on another website as one of the largest office blocks in the south east. Some how I think the traffic is about to get a lot worse.

[Powerjet1]

LTN's Draft Masterplan for the expansion of the airport as permitted by the 2003 White Paper, will be published the week commencing 17 October, after which a period of 12 weeks will follow for public consultation. The full & final Masterplan should then be made public in late March or early April 06.

November 10th, the big media gathering for easyJet's 10th birthday. Rumours of a 'big' announcement to spoil the party?

As & when any announcement is made, one should not automatically assume it will be a ' Party Pooper '. It may turn out to be quite the opposite, but who knows......

If ACDL pull off Air Berlin, I will be nice to all my visitors for a day!

I think that is a bit of a tall order at the moment, but if it comes off Buster, I will be nice to all your visitors for a month!.

[Buster the Bear]

easyJet announce major expansion from Luton on Nov 10th? If they do, I will dance furless on Dunstable Downs for a whole hour!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[LTNman]

Already announced!

easyJet, Europe's leading low-cost airline, today announced significant growth from its base at London Luton Airport. The airline will be adding three more aircraft to the existing 13, representing a growth of 25% by the end of the winter.

Details of the new destinations will be released within the next few weeks, and will reflect the airline's ongoing strategy to link the most attractive and popular destination airports.

Over five million passengers have flown from the Luton base in the last 12 months, and the airline intends to increase this figure to over six million within the next year.

Ray Webster easyJet Chief Executive commented:

"Luton was easyJet's first base and has always proved to be a successful and profitable market. Today's announcement reflects our commitment to London, and the Herts, Beds and Bucks regions. We intend to continue with our planned growth and envisage further successful development from Luton".

Yes this story from their website dated 21st July 2004 but we are all still waiting as they didn't say which winter they were talking about.

[King Pong]

LTN's Draft Masterplan for the expansion of the airport as permitted by the 2003 White Paper, will be published the week commencing 17 October

The problem with major plans like project 2030 is that they get bogged down for years with one delay after another. Just look at new the link road from the airport to the A505. The build was meant to have been completed a couple of years ago but as yet there is still not even a start date. Thameslink 2000 is another project that despite its name has still not been started. How many of us will still be alive when and if project 2030 is finished.

[Buster the Bear]

Your last post LTNman really made me laugh!

[nickmanl]

Easy Jet announced that expansion to pee on Ryanair's announcement of their Luton expansion.

Wigmore Place has been empty for years, bar a couple of used offices. It is a bit of a white elephant IMO. Yes, it may make things busier on Junction 10 I know people who work in recruitment and a lot of people are leaving their jobs, being replaced by people based in Luton.

Not many people will be commuting from their current location in Kingston, London.

[PAXboy]

Following the link to Wigmore Place ... Wigmore Place is well located, just 33 miles north of London. I Eh??? I don't have time to check this but it sounds like too short a distance? As I understand it, all distances from London are measured from the Charing Cross.

[Buster the Bear]

From Charing X it is 35.1 miles via the M1.

[LTNman]

There was a hostile editorial in one of the local rags about the owners of Wigmore Place putting in a planning application to build a 3 acre car park on Wigmore Valley Park for the office workers. I would love to know how a building of this size got planning approval without the provision of adequate parking spaces. NTL who are also in the building have been renting an airport car park next to the car hire centre for years.

I see that Atlantic have taken on a DHL contract to fly nightly to Brussels using an Electra which is replacing I believe the Swiftair Convair. I have heard that an ATP will replace the Electra.

[ebenezer]

The most likely 'new' sights at Luton will be Spanish speaking airlines who AENA - unlike BAA - already has a good business relationship at its Spanish airports.

There is an intent to spend approx £200m in additional infrastructure over the next 18 months including another six stands immediately south of the existing East Apron, and improved taxiway links to both (existing) runway ends. Planning permission will be sought but LLAO has several cards 'up its sleeve' which it will offer in return, and which could prove attractive to the local NIMBYs.

Annual passenger figues are therefore, expected to reach 10m by next Summer.

As to the local roads - who knows? Luton Borough Council and Bedfordshire County Council don't spend money on local road improvements: they're still stuck in the canal building and navvies era...

:hmm: :ooh:

[LTNman]

The short term and staff car parks have been pencilled in for years as a potential 6 stand apron. A new apron the size of the existing east apron would end up at the front door of the Harrods terminal. A plan did and maybe still does exist that shows another pier between the south apron and this potential new apron.

Love to know where the short term and staff car parks will end up. My guess is the mid term car park on the wrong side of the tunnel. Will Luton end up with the UK’s first short term car park that is a bus ride away???

Is it time that easyjet moved out of the central area to create some space seeing that there is a nice Britannia HQ that is about to be vacated. Easyjet have just opened a large training academy just round the corner from Britannia’s HQ so this location would be ideal.

[LTNman]

There is an intent to spend approx £200m in additional infrastructure over the next 18 months

£200 million would pay for a lot of infrastructure seeing that the new terminal, aprons and the building work this year came to not much more than £100million. Maybe there is a Gatwick style driverless train in the short term plans running down to the railway station. A feasibility study was carried out some time ago which would use the empty half of the tunnel.

As for the mid term car park, this is set to get a lot smaller. A full length parallel taxiway with eat into the southern side of it while the new duel carriageway down to the A 505 will cut the western side of it in half.

[ezpz]

LTNman, the training academy isnt big enough for all the training easyjet have planned at the minute, let alone room for and HQ functions to move down the road.

easyLand is full to capacity at the minute, and there is no room for expansion, so a new HQ will have to be built soon. The HQ was due to move earlier this year to another site, but it was all cancelled because of the current financial climate, ie all our profits dissapearing into the rising oil price. Rumours also that the site they found had subsidance, even though they had already signed a lease.

The staff will all end up in car park B opposite cargo, and there maybe enough room to squeeze a multi storey short term car park into the central terminal area.

[Buster the Bear]

I understand that if easyJet post a massive lo$$, bigger than any previous during this quiet winter, there could well be plenty of room in easyLand shortly afterwards?

Expect the 'head count' slayers then to arrive on a mission from City investors!

Do Ryanair operate thier own academy, or do they contract it out?

Staff within easyLand will soon find that they have to park thier cars remote and bus it to work. With all the planned expansion, this looks likely. Sadly, staff will be ousted by expansion by airlines other than easyJet!

SUPERB, staff of the based airline will have to park thier car miles away and catch a bus, due to expansion of thier rivals and they will be able to sit and watch through thier 'shrink wrapped' window, whilst other expand thier business from Luton!

Poetic justice, not for me to say, but we await the resolution of the easyJet expansion that LTNman posted earlier!

[DeepC]

I would love to know how a building of this size got planning approval without the provision of adequate parking spaces

The way planning guidlines are currently structured the reverse is true. You cannot get planning consent on a building if it has sufficient car parking space for it's workers. This is meant to encourage transport modal shift (Buses, Trains, Cycles, Peds). What it actually does is shift parking into nearby residential streets, supermarket car parks, other business car park etc.

It is unbelieveable what the planning guidlines think is sufficient parking. I think they assume four up in a car and 25% modal shift or something drastic. In reality a modal shift of 4% is considered a stupendous achievement. To put it into focus. If a modal shift of 2% across the SE of england occurred onto trains, the rail infrastructure could not cope with the increased demand. The government's lack of investment in rail has been at odds with it's proffessed support of modal shift.

DeepC

[Buster the Bear]

I quote:

"You cannot get planning consent on a building if it has sufficient car parking space for it's workers. "

I am totally puzzled now!

[LTNman]

LTNman, the training academy isnt big enough for all the training easyjet have planned at the minute, let alone room for and HQ functions to move down the road.

Britannia’s HQ is much bigger than it looks from the outside, the only problem might be that it consists of three buildings opposite each other but it swamps the present easyland. This could be easyjet's only chance to stay actually inside the airport boundary.

[DeepC]

Buster,

I am totally puzzled now!

The planning guidelines are trying to reduce car dependency. For instance our building in Welwyn Garden City has in excess of 300 Workers but less than 100 spaces. The planning guidlines do not allow us to make room for more cars as it goes against the aim of less car dependency.

Understand?

DeepC

[Buster the Bear]

They way that I read it was that if you designed a new builing with sufficient space for all the workers cars, it would not get planning approval? So from what you are saying, it wouldn't, how bizarre?

I fully understand the need to get staff to get too and from work other than by car, but in the UK, you mostly have an inadequate public transport infrastructure, and where it is available, is rather expensive comapred to other nations with similar ambitions?

The roads soon will be so clogged in an around Luton airport with the new access road, the widening of the link from the M1, and of course the 10 year project to 4 lane the M1 from the M25 up to MK! Road works everywhere!

[LTNman]

The planning guidelines are trying to reduce car dependency.

Ah so by getting rid of the short term and staff car parks for more aircraft stands and reducing the size of the mid term car park so a full length parallel taxiway can be built means that planning permission is assured. :ok:

[Powerjet1]

Britannia’s HQ is much bigger than it looks from the outside, the only problem might be that it consists of three buildings opposite each other but it swamps the present easyland. This could be easyjet's only chance to stay actually inside the airport boundary

Would have thought this would have been a good option if the right deal could be struck. Didn't easy stay at LTN rather than move their HQ to STN due to the regeneration grants available?. Assume this would still apply.

With the current financial situation, rising oil prices etc, and the need to keep cost to a minimum, who knows. However, I would surmise that easyland, in its current location, it's days are numbered, as the land will be required for expansion.

[CAP670]

The planning guidelines are trying to reduce car dependency

This is just so much Government bull****! If we all stopped driving cars, Brown's budget would have an even bigger hole in it (reduced income from lower fuel sales, VAT, road fund licences, etc) and the local councils would be equally strapped for cash (reduced income from car parking charges, parking permits, etc).

As regards Luton, easyJet has apparently been given notice that its staff car park will have to be given up, presumably because of the plans to build six stands to the south of the existing East Apron area. It's probable that there will be left a small area for 'executive' parking and for hire cars. However, the focus of car parking is eventually planned to move to the south side of the 'bridge' - but heaven knows where! LLAO's ultimate aim is to have only disabled persons' private cars driving up to the terminals, and to have either a 'people mover' or coaches transporting passengers to/from the terminal(s) from/to remote car parks.

The Thameslink 2000 Project envisioned direct trains linking Guildford with Cambridge via St Pancras Thameslink and Hitchin (ultimately, being extended to Kings Lynn) interchanging with the current Thameslink Bedford/Brighton service at the new St Pancras Thameslink station. This may still happen after 2007 but will require some further work south of Snow Hill tunnel to add track capacity.

LLAO's Project 2030 did at one stage envisage a rail link from the Midland Main Line north of Harpenden via the new South Terminal (associated with a new runway) to the East Cost Main Line south of Hitchin.

If the Government really does want to reduce car dependancy, it ought to put its money where John Prescott's mouth is, and look at part-funding this sort of development.

Pigs of course, might fly!

:E

[DeepC]

They way that I read it was that if you designed a new builing with sufficient space for all the workers cars, it would not get planning approval? So from what you are saying, it wouldn't, how bizarre?

Correct.

DeepC

[Buster the Bear]

BLIMEY, this thread is considered only suitable for spotters corner. Has the moderator who moved it been smoking the potted plants in his lounge?

Buster, Luton most wanted bear spotter (NOT)!

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Buster - I entirely agree. The vast majority of the discussion on this thread does not concern spotting issues (not that there is anything wrong with that) but about the day to day operation of the airport, and more importantly the almost certain expansion of the airport now that it is under new management. The issues being reported and debated are sensible and serious.

Maybe the Mod that moved the thread is a BAA mole????

[pabely]

Bournemouth & Manchester appear to have moved as well. Both non BAA airports, you could be right?:hmm:

See already being discussed on another thread!

[Buster the Bear]

I am going to add more fuel to the Air Berlin fire.

According to my mate Luton Wrelic who now lives in Espania, has told me that Luton will be linked to Palma and Malaga and possibly other destinations from Summer 2006 by Air Berlin.

This has been reported in the Spanish media!

So by posting this rumour, I am now officially a plane spotter. I must change my title!

I must get a note book, pencil and a ruler to underline my rumour. Now where can I buy a copy of Ian Allan Civil Aircraft Rumours 2005?

Buster, the Spotter!

I am off to smoke my potted cactus, like the moderators on here!

I HATE MOLES, they dig up my bear pit!

[LTNman]

According to my mate Luton Wrelic who now lives in Espania, has told me that Luton will be linked to Palma and Malaga and possibly other destinations from Summer 2006 by Air Berlin.

I am sorry Buster but your post is inappropriate to this forum as it clearly covers 1/ airlines, 2/ airports and 3/ routes so should be posted to the airlines, airports and routes forum.

I think it is now time to close this thread as I can't be asked to check out two forums for Luton news


:zzz: :zzz:

[CAP670]

I thought that it might be helpful to repeat in the 'proper' Forum, (Airlines, etc) the last few posts from the previous thread, just so that those of us who are trying to have an adult discussion on an important issue such as airport expansion (routes and concrete) aren't all forced to keep going to this Spotters' Corner (cozy as it undoubtedly is!).

You can therefore, revert to the previous location.

Of course, the Thought Police might decide to move us again. If so, perhaps the Moderator(s) might like to create a new forum entitled "Room 101".

Big Brother is definitely watching you...

:(

[LTNman]

Thank you Mr Moderator for reviewing your decision. :ok:

[Buster the Bear]

I realise that we should all pay homage to the moderators for the gift that is this site, but when you invest some of you hard earned income in supporting PPRuNe like I did last week, to find my posts side lined within a plane spotters section was absurd and very annoying.

Anyway, I spelt Wrelic wrong in my post above!

Luton Relic has no internet access, but told me 'off the cuff' that Air Berlin were to link Luton with Palma and Malaga next summer. Reported in the media within the area he lives in Spain, so I am hardly invading corporate secrecy by posting this rumour here?

Anyway, nice to see sense prevail and I promise not to wind LTNman up too much, but he seems a nice guy and a Luton airport fan?

[LTNman]

Luton Relic has no internet access, but told me 'off the cuff' that Air Berlin were to link Luton with Palma and Malaga next summer. Reported in the media within the area he lives in Spain, so I am hardly invading corporate secrecy by posting this rumour here?

It was Relic who told me that the runway was going to be resurfaced last winter which never happened. Hope his info is a bit more accurate this time. I then read it on a notice board that it was going to happen this winter but I see that it has been delayed for another year.

Anyway, nice to see sense prevail and I promise not to wind LTNman up too much?

I will just turn my back on you and show you my bear behind:)

[Buster the Bear]

Blimey, your bear behind is hardly relating to this thread, but probably more interesting than the walk to the RYR gates?

Yes the old Relic is a bit slow, due to the temp where he lives, but was adamant that it was Luton and not anywhere else to be Air Berlin connected.

If by some magic it was to be true, would the 'shrink wrapped HQ' contain the anger related to the new competition, mind you, Mr Jeans would also be upset?

[King Pong]

Is it just me going blind or is the ground floor of the terminal getting darker? Walking from the new arrivals waiting area into the terminal is like walking from day to night. At the best of times the whole of the ground floor is in semi darkness but someone needs to start changing a few light bulbs. Out of 24 spotlights, which illuminate the walk from the outsized luggage belt to the front of the bar, 11 lights are broken. In the check-in area dark shadows have been cast due to a lack of working light bulbs in some areas. I find it hard to believe that a terminal that was built only in 1999 can be so dark.

[Powerjet1]

Issue of the Draft Masterplan for the airport which was to be published w/c 17Oct, has been delayed by one week to w/c 24 Oct.

[King Pong]

Apparently they are still waiting for a delivery of helmets and flak jackets :eek:

[LTNman]

In case you missed it there is a new sticky at the top of the page which needs to be read and taken on board. This thread and others are about to be closed down so a new one can be started. Not a bad thing as it is a daunting task when performing a search to have to slog through over 400 posts to try and find an old message. Apart from that the Luton folk should not be affected, as I don’t think there were any spotter posts in this thread.

[Buster the Bear]

Thanks for that LTNman, I missed the new 'sticky'!

Rarely are there any spotting type posts related to Luton. Maybe the so called 'Luton spotters' are a sophisticated bunch?

Or they cannot compete with the mostly intelligent posts here.....a bit too inflammatory that comment!

Good to see Monarch Scheduled post a massive increase in overall pax for Aug, bodes well for the future.

[King Pong]

A growth rate for the final 4 months of the year of 9.4% is required to achieve 9,000,000 passengers for 2005. A growth rate of 15.6% was attained in August but with a falling trend.

Hope the above is not classed as a spotter type of post as I still haven’t got my head around yet where the dividing line sits.
:confused: