Bonding

[SEWER RAT]

Can anyone tell me the legality of bonding for approval courses, and wether I can refuse to be bonded or not?

[SchmiteGoBust]

Hi Rat,
Some unscrupulous companies still try to "bond" you. I was bonded at my last company,FLS. It was one of their ways of trying to stop engineers leaving!!It didn't work-ho ho!!
Bonding is now an illegal practice under European law no matter what your company are telling you. It is all to do with the free movement of employees.
An engineer from British Airways went to the European court over a bond they said he owed them when he left. European court ruled in favour of the engineer and informed BA bonding was not a legal practice!!Case dismissed.....
Hope this is of use.

[spannersatcx]

SchmiteGoBust, do you know of any documentary proof of it being illegal to bond. I've not heard that this has changed, in fact I'd heard a ruling that said it is not unreasonable for a company to bond as the investment they put into training you should be recoverable should you decide to leave.

[spanners]

BA dont actually bond engineers. Maybe he was with another airline.......

[Ailing Bob]

Luckily for us, eh Baz????

PS we can all go back now Frasers gone!!
Merry Christmas

[SEWER RAT]

I would like to find out if I can refuse piont blank to be bonded which is easier said than done, it doesn't help that there is always someone who will jump in and take it anyway!!!

[spannersatcx]

Sewer Rat, I really don't know about the legalities of bonding, if you are a member why not drop the <A HREF="http://www.lae.mcmail.com.com" TARGET="_blank">ALAE</A> a line.
Things to consider if you refuse,
Are you paid per approval?
Is somebody else waiting in the wings who would sign and do the course?
Will it do your prospects/career any good by refusing to do it?
I have been bonded at 3 different companies, least was 1 year most was 3. I only left one with a bond outstanding, which I repaid without any qualms, it was pro rata i.e it went down every month so it wasn't a huge sum when I did leave.
I believe there has been a lot of threads on this from the Aircrew side it may be worth doing a search to see if you can come to a conclusion from there.

[Blacksheep]

First we need to consider what is a "Bond?" In times past people entered contracts, usually to pay off debts but frequently to pay for a sea passage, bonding them to work for an employer for a specific time to discharge the debt. Such bondage contracts were transferrable so the employer could in fact "sell" the labour of a bonded labourer to another employer. This is a true Contract of Bondage. Being similar to slavery in some ways, bondage contracts are immoral which is why they are legally unenforceable in the same way as, for example, gambling debts. The problem with modern "Bonding" is that the contracts we call Bonds are not technically any such thing, they are actually training contracts. The deal is written as an agreement for the trainee to pay for training with charges waived if the trainee continues in the employer's service for a specific period after completing the training. The difference between this and a true Bond may be small but it is significant. The employer cannot sell the bond to a third party. No sign, no course; leave before the agreed period and the fee becomes payable. Simple, there's nothing immoral about that.

We once had a contract employee who was sent to Boeing for training, but somehow he slipped through the net and departed without signing a "Bond". The company asked him to sign when he returned from Boeing but he refused. At the end of his contract soon afterwards, the company tried to deduct the training costs from his end of service benefit but he took the matter to court and won without going to trial. This was a special situation, since no contract actually existed, the company was unable to enforce payment and he received his end of service benefit in full.

**********************************
Through difficulties to the cinema

[SchmiteGoBust]

Sorry, I made a mistake...I asked the source of knowledge and it wasn't a BA guy who took the company to court, but a British Midland bloke(we think!!!!!). End result was the same-European court ruling in engineers favour.
Spannersatcx- I don't think there is any documentary stuff in english law about bonding being illegal. We tried to get more info on this from AEEU ,but as yet have received no reply. Presumably the situation arose from European rights court who determined in this case that the company was acting illegally by bonding. As we all know ,European law is much more in favour of workers rights than English law. I understand that this case happened at the time the Social Chapter was in all the headlines-maybe something to do with it!!



[This message has been edited by SchmiteGoBust (edited 22 December 2000).]

[spanners]

If you go overseas, you might want to thimk about it also. Singapore Airlines set a precedent by getting their bond money back from a captain after a court battle.

Ailing Bob- I'd go back for a bit of O/T eh?