The Jetstar Thread

[Mr Seatback 2]

Well...hard to believe it's been a year already.

Anyone care to join me in the bunker for EBA III this July?

[Sky_hi!]

Happy Birthday to you, happy birthday to you....
Happy birthday dear Jetstaaaaaaaaaaaaar
Happy Birthday to you!

:yuk:

:p

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the new EBA - I really hope its not all doom and gloom like alot of crew think it will be. Or is my positive outlook just being naive...... I hope not!

:\ :\


PS Oh my GAAAAAAAAWWWD! I got Bountys in my lunch bag!!!!!

[QFRegional]

I have heard these stories before but today they come straight from the horses mouth on Sky News Business, Alan Joyce said Jetstar will commence services to New Zealand before the end of 2005 and details will be released to the media in the next few months. Also will be flying to W.A. and N.T. before the end of 2005.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Correction (kind of) - Jetstar will be flying to Oz, but NOT with Australian crews on board.

Jetconnect (the QF NZ subsidiary) will be doing the flying between NZ and Oz.

Nice of them to consult with us on this one - like everything else! Management have made NO secret to ANY of the crew that Jetconnect will be doing the flying.

No offence to the Jetconnect boys and girls...but I think it's a bit rich that the additional flying is being awarded to Jetconnect - a subsidiary with whom we've never operated with before! Then again, that's never stopped Geoffy baby, has it? Lowest costs and all that.

Perhaps Geoff could lobby the Govt to operate the aircraft with no cabin crew on board, and just one pilot? Think of the savings Geoff!

Jetconnect - the overseas base when you don't have an overseas base (or is that Jetstar Asia??) :*

(PS. I got bounty's in my bag too! I don't think I've squealed so much since...well...:E )

But back to the topic at hand...EBA III!

[SkySista]

The other night one of the travel programs.. (I dunno, they both start with 'G') advertised fares with JQ to Perth....

ermm...... do they know something we don't? I didn't think they were allowed to advertise fares "valid until July" when JQ aren't even operating into PER yet!! :E

[GalleyHag]

So are we talking yet another airline Jet*NZ? Jet* Australia cabin crew have no provision in your EBA for overseas based crew do you?

[overhere]

Mr Seatback - oh dear you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Fact 1 - As far as I would understand Jetconnect would have to tender for the Jetstar contract, for which I imagine Jetstar Australia would also tender!

Fact 2 - Jetconnect would pick up the flying in leiu of the flying they they will lose as a result of JQ taking on the NZ flying - Jetconnect currently operate all NZ domestic services and a number of NZ/Aus routes that JQ will takeover.

Fact 3 - Jetconnect is very much like Jetstar, its young, dynamic and full of a great bunch of people who just like you are fighting to improve their conditions and proruct on a daily basis.

Fact 4 - When you work for the company that is taking a whole lot of flying away from QF SH and QFL then I wouldn't be complaining that someone may get some flying that has never even been yours.

I don't work for Jetconnect anymore, but they are a great bunch of people who, without this contract could well be left with their wings clipped!

[blueloo]

Its rather ironic, that those who undercut mainline are now getting some of there own medicine, by being undercut by others......



The race to the bottom continues - and whats scary is that so many are willing to continue the race.


:(

[Mr Seatback 2]

Hold your fire buster...

" Fact 1 - As far as I would understand Jetconnect would have to tender for the Jetstar contract, for which I imagine Jetstar Australia would also tender!"

On the contrary - Alan Joyce and senior management have been telling anyone that will listen that Jetconnect are doing the trans tasman flying. No tendering. Fact. Primarily, as I understand, because of the lower crew/pax ratio (Aust has 1:36, NZ has 1:50). On an A320, that means 4 crew instead of our regulation 5 for dispatch.

"Fact 2 - Jetconnect would pick up the flying in leiu of the flying they they will lose as a result of JQ taking on the NZ flying - Jetconnect currently operate all NZ domestic services and a number of NZ/Aus routes that JQ will takeover."

There's no word on exactly what is being replaced in terms of Short Haul/Long Haul trans tasman flying, or of new markets (ie. HLZ-SYD, DUD-SYD, etc).

So - whilst replacement is the key here, so is the possibility of new routes that neither Jetstar, or Jetconnect, currently operate.

"Fact 3 - Jetconnect is very much like Jetstar, its young, dynamic and full of a great bunch of people who just like you are fighting to improve their conditions and proruct on a daily basis."

And good for them too! I wasn't questioning their youthfulness, dynamism, or anything. In fact, I wasn't going the crew at all - as with us, decisions such as these are out of our hands.

"Fact 4 - When you work for the company that is taking a whole lot of flying away from QF SH and QFL then I wouldn't be complaining that someone may get some flying that has never even been yours."

A few facts for you...

When QantasLink (Impulse) took over some Short Haul routes in 2001, it was done as a means of complimenting Short Haul services and freeing up capacity.

Then Ansett fell over. And all hell broke loose.

We were soon purchased by QF, made a subsidiary, and gained additional aircraft to increase frequencies and build up traffic between previously non linked cities (ie. Sydney-Townsville direct).

Then - when Jetstar came into effect, all our flying was transferred across. Short Haul, in fact, gained many more overnights than previously available because we (and Southern Australia) had done them previously. Places such as Gold Coast, Hobart, and Launceston suddenly became available. So - it could be argued that whatever we took away was easily given back to Short Haul in spades.

SO - overhere - who's taking what from whom? We lost our overnights (and everything associated with that), for longer days and dual aircraft endorsement. With the exception of expansion, not much in the way of financial or lifestyle gain.

As Short Haul has the Regional Flying agreement, would you really think that Jetstar would seriously impact on Long Hauls flying? AKL base, BKK and LHR base have seen to that I would have thought.

True - we don't currently fly to the proposed destinations, and arguably, that doesn't give us the automatic right. Guess I'm just one of these Aussie's that believes the national airline of the country should consider employment within Australia before looking offshore for cheaper, foreign based labour. What was the tagline again - Spirit of Australia? Or maybe that doesn't apply if you're 'all day, every day, low fares?'

" I don't work for Jetconnect anymore, but they are a great bunch of people who, without this contract could well be left with their wings clipped!"

I shouldn't have to repeat myself, but here goes...

I never intended offence (or at least, redundancies) to the Jetconnect people. As the plans have yet to be outlined with regard to who goes where, and when, I'm sure we'll all have a better idea of the impact this change will have. Yes, it has been mentioned that we will complement existing QF services - but as to who cops what where, is anyones guess.

My problem, as mentioned previously, is that we do not have the facility for an overseas base within our Agreement. Even if they operated under a different name (ie. Jetstar NZ, similar to Pacific Blue), Short Haul at least had a provision under their Agreement (at one point), where any flying performed by Jetconnect would not disadvantage Short Haul crew, to the point where they would receive replacement flying.

As nothing of this nature has - to my knowledge - been discussed, I have natural concerns that we (the Australian operation) risk being operationally undercut by our cousins across the pond. Without the benefit of at least a defining clause limiting how much flying is divided up, you may well understand our anxiety given upcoming EBA III negotiations.

Att: Blueloo -

Word of advice: We didn't undercut anyone. We were operating as a single aircraft endorsed, high capacity jet operation with single class operation. Our agreement was negotiated as such - which saw the Impulse crew go from $24K p/a to $approx 35K p/a overnight.

What's the saying that makes repeated showings here? "Play the ball, not the player"?

There's been plenty said about who undercuts who, but quite frankly, rather than looking to the crew who work for any subsidiary, we should all consider the moves being made by the various illustrious individuals that occupy our said Head Offices. Notice how in the drive to reduce costs, bonuses and shares rise in constrast? It's never those in the ivory towers who suffer, is it?

Interesting times my friends. May we all, at least, remain employed!

[HoHum]

Yeah Yeah - happy birthday . To celebrate it for staff, we have included a bounty for you in your meal in place of the mars bars!!!- hope you like em - because now you'll be getting these every day for the next year - just like you did with the Mars Bar! Who says we don't change things around to offer crew some variety !!!????


Ohh... and blueloo - go stick your head in the toilet - you have no idea on what you are talking about - Jetstar crew NEVER went out to undercut QF staff- get your facts straight - the staff were transferred from within the company - QantasLink!!!!!- and didn't get given the opportunity or choice. It was more the case of - here is your new uniform and this is how you will be doing things from now on...............:uhoh: I can just see you now in the same situation contemplating on whether to accept what was on offer or to pay your mortgage with your dole money - cause they were the only choices..... so smarty - which way would you have gone??!!??:confused:

[QFboi_MEL]

YAY!!!!!!!!!! No more mars bars.... so i guess once we make these last batch of Mars Bar Slices (as all crew in the SEQ base would know there has been a recipe for the Mars Bar slice up in the crew room wall @ BNE) someone would have 2 give us a receipe for Bounty Bars!!!!!!!!

[ditzyboy]

blueloo -
Undercutting another divsion would be by way of voting in an EBA which impacts adversly upon the flying of another.

Short Haul voted in an award which directly impacted on Long Haul's flying. I do not have an opinion in regards to that as it doesn't affect me. Though I think one should keep that in mind when making such statements.

Jetstar/QFLink/Impulse crew have NEVER voted in an award which reduces the conditions of another division. And as Mr SB2 correctly states the JQ operation has given Short Haul back OOL, LST and HBA overnights. Not to mention the extra flying SYD-TSV, BNE-TSV, BNE-ROK, BNE-ISA, BNE-MKY, BNE-HTI now operated by Short Haul.

Please identify a way in which JQ crew have undercut Short Haul... You cannot hold crew responsible for management reallocating resources. Like where the 717s flew when QF bought Impulse and then the change to JQ. Ask yourself if crew would have any control of such decisions. I totally agree with you that crew should not undercut another division. I disagree that JQ crew have ever done this.

As for Jetconnect doing the JQ-Tasman flying... I disagree with Mr SB2. I do not mind who gets 'awarded' the flying. It is new flyings so isn't being taken away from anyone. If it keeps the hard working Jetconnect people in jobs then so be it!

Anyway... Jetstar OZ can't even provide its crew with clean toilets or galleys. Let's get that right before we embark upon International flying!

Mr SB2 -
Just semantics but our pay went from 25-28K to 45K when we got an EBA in 2001.

Getting a liveable wage back in 2000/1 was only possible through both the hard work of the FAAA and the TOTAL support of Impulse crew. Any change for the better nowadays will require that same level of unity and support.

[Mr Seatback 2]

I know where you're coming from Ditz, and I agree with you to some extent...

1) Of course I want the Jetconnect crew to keep their jobs. Far be it from me to want otherwise!

2) I know we don't currently perform the planned flying - therefore, we're not physically losing anything.

Of my main concerns, relating to the above, is the dangerous precedent in allowing Jetconnect (or anyone else for that matter!) to do our flying. Another example is Jetstar Asia, who will also present the same problems for us when they eventually start to operate ex Australia also!

We've only to look at the flow on effect offshore labour has created for Short and Long Haul in terms of the impact it's had on their working conditions and pattern planning in Australia. I'm all for increased efficiencies, etc. - just not at the expense of the people who helped get the airline to where it is today!

Now - if discussions relating to the use of offshore labour at Jetstar had occurred (between the FAAA, members, etc)...then I wouldn't mind. Reason being is that some form of consultation (and hopefully, resolution) would be forthcoming by way of a vote, etc. from the members.

My biggest concern is the unfettered, unlimited potential the use of ANY foreign labour in ANY manner poses at Jetstar. The Industrial Relations laws in Australia are changing to the detriment of the Employee - and as such, I have every right to feel nervous!

Again - I'm simply playing the ball, not the player. The crew (whatever their division or subsidiary) have nothing to do with the formation of these decisions. Sadly!

[QFboi_MEL]

Can anyone tell me if it's true that there will be no voting for FAAA to sign off this EBA because there are not enough JQ members???

I heard this at the 1st b'day party and wasn't sure if someone was just saying that when they were drunk of what.

[Mr Seatback 2]

Total crap QF Boi - the person who told you this MUST have been drunk!

Irrespective of how many members JQ does/doesn't have, there has to be a vote among the Flight Attendants as to whether or not it's accepted, because the FAAA are a party to the Agreement (and they are the representative group of the employees).

It would be a VERY different story if we were on individual contracts/AWA's. At least with an EBA, we can decide our fate collectively, rather than having crew compete against one another within the same company for a better deal!

On the contrary, it's my understanding we have a hefty membership base! Since we became JQ, a number of people in SYD have apparently joined up in protest at how things have panned out for us.

Anyway - why wouldn't you be a member? It's a tax write off at least! More money come refund time!

[qcc2]

mr. seatback2 here are some additional facts. labor has opposed the joint aviation agreement (which allows each other carriers to operate in oz or nz under their regs) in the senate between oz and nz so far. come july 1 it is going to be another thing of the past as anderson has supported the idea from the beginning. this lowers not only crew ratios but also allows nz crew to operate cheaply in oz with nz registration (and reverse). also certification and a range of other safety factors do not need to meet oz requirements. and nz requirements are lower then the usa. need to say any more? downhill all the way

[RollzRoyce]

The Australian reports that Qantas' low-fare carrier Jetstar is establishing an Airbus A320 crew base in Cairns

According to the report, the base will mean new jobs for about 135 in Cairns, and the stationing of three aircraft there within three years -- up from the current one aircraft stationed there today.

Cairns reportedly has the highest year-on-year growth for Jetstar, and the carrier already has added 200 percent capacity over the past year. Currently the airline operates 70 weekly flights from Cairns.

Interesting.......

Rollz :ok:

[blue_stew]

NZ is an interesting aspect of our business indeed. At DJ we have our own version of 'Jetconnect' called PacBlue. Dj was requiring crew to carry passports because they said we would be needed if any nz crew went sick in Oz and we could be pulled off reserve to fill in. How that was meant to work was never really explained.

NOW - we've been told we no longer need to carry our passports as...get this..the NZ avaition authority has given the go ahead for PAc Blue to operate 737-800 aircraft with..drum roll please... 3 CREW!! Thats right folks, 180 seat jet with four primary exit doors - 3 cabin crew. Now I'm sure thats only a last resort due to illness, etc and the pax numbers would have to be capped at the NZ ration 1:50, but it goes to show you the lack of interest the airlines and the authorities (in both OZ and NZ) have for SAFETY!!!!!

[ditzyboy]

Jetstar has had crew based in CNS since March.

[sinala1]

Haha and I bet the article in the Australian was written by Steve Creedy... that guy certainly has his finger on the pulse when it comes to aviation! :yuk: :mad: :yuk:



of course if it were not him then he has clearly been training one of his fellow colleagues on how to report on aviation matters!

[ditzyboy]

We are back to Mars Bars ex-SYD... Any other bases care to report? :mad:

Anyone heard anything of worthy re. EBA? or have any thoughts?

How are all the JQ FAs out there travelling? Touch base with old Nana Ditz!

blueloo -
Still think that JQ cabin crew have undercut any other divisions? Still think we would willingly do this or have done this?

I am interested in you thoughts on SH doing LH flying and whether or not you think that consitutes "undercutting" another division.

[High-Flying-Adored]

I gave up on The Australian about six months ago when it told me that a large QF longhaul order was imminent - three weeks in a row!