US vs Uk working conditions

[cactus-airbus]

I'm just curious how our working conditions compare to Uk standards. I work for a low cost carrier and can expect to earn US 45k first year, 65k second year, and 150k as a captain on an A320. I work for one of the lower paying LCC's. The average upgrade at my airline is 7 years. I can expect 14-16 days off in a month as a junior lineholder and start with three weeks vacation. We do not have a pension plan...

Is this about average for a Low Cost Carrier in the UK or would I be better off working as an ex-pat?

[XL5]

Better off working as an expat? Depends. It's not just a matter of plugging numbers into a currency converter to see which pilot wins.
The national average wage corrected for taxes to give a net figure makes a good starting point for comparisons - then further refine by accounting for local variables such as housing, transport, etc. All available on the screen in front of you.

And then of course, the big and ambiguous quality of life question has to be answered. QOL issues in (say) PHX with Cactus verses QOL issues in (say) LTN with Orange.

The other man's grass is always greener until it's your turn to jump the fence and mow it. Although having said that, I must admit that there are employers for whom the phrases 'working conditions' and 'slavery' are synonymous.

[Ignition Override]

Cactus-Airbus: an English (why do we say British when they are all different?) guy who came years ago to the US and then joined the Army Reserve to become a helicopter mechanic told me something interesting. He worked his way thru his US ratings and now flies the CRJ as FO, for a major airline "network".

He said that despite higher regional salaries in the UK, the higher taxes there+high cost of living etc make it better to live as a regional FO in the lower cost states in the US. He also lives down south.

This surprised me, because I knew that the gross salaries here at all regionals (after Stephen Wolf destroyed the original Air Wisconsin), especially for FOs, are lower than in Europe.

Over there, you might run into some bias (as most foreign pilots claim is the case over here), and although my company has a number of pilots from overseas, you would have a rough time paying for and earning your foreign ratings, from everything I've read and heard. Many abroad consider us all cowboys, lacking the polished radio discipline and theoretical comprehension. The JAR ratings etc might not lead to a job, even if you spoke a second language fluently-and many airlines paradoxically prefer young, inexperienced pilots. The young ones (or most former military) have no previous exposure to how many ways a civilian employer can willingly cheat and violate regarding the spirit and letter of any contract section (i.e. the Part 91+121 abuse here by numerous freight airlines). Some airlines prefer, under certain conditions, to hire pilots with 500 hours, instead of guys who have 8-10,000 hours or more! I know one of them who interviewed years ago for a Cathay job, along with two others. You might try the contract route with a Pacific Rim carrier, but that is supposed to be a complex subject. One of our (native US) guys, was one of the few US pilots hired by Cathay in the better, good old days, then left after several years.

You will not find much help volunteered on the Pprune website, at least from pilots overseas- many have been waiting years for their first flying job, after learning a huge load of academia for their ratings, most of which many have often claimed, has no application to actual flying-and after all the expense and study they invest, they simply do not want you moving over there. You have lots of research ahead of you if you want to objectively consider work outside the US, in order to avoid many traps or deadends which I've read about for years. You might be much better off staying where you are, as long as you don't have lots of rattlesnakes around :ooh: , except for those painted on some of your planes. If you are still fairly young and want some job security here, and willing to get a major salary cut for a while, and possibly jeopardize a stable personal relationship (in some cases) doing all night ops, maybe FEDEX or UPS would be a good choice. :zzz: + :mad: (PMS) = :oh: + .:\ .

[scroggs]

Protectionist mechanisms exist in most economies, whether overtly or covertly, but it is certainly possible for a non-European to work in Europe. Many millions are doing so right now! The primary hurdle is the right to live and work in Europe, which is ususally a matter of heredity - and is normally covered on the Embassy website of the country you are interested in. The process of converting your FAA licence to JAA isn't cheap or easy, but it's not as difficult as some would have you believe!

As for pilot remuneration, in western Europe it's generally (but not always) true that pay is better than in the US in the early years of a career. On the other hand, $150K for an A320 captain is a little more than would normally be expected here. As XL5 says, the comparison isn't straightforward - issues of tax, cost of living, terms and conditions beyond salary (pension, healthcare, etc) all need to be taken into account.

www.ppjn.com has fairly accurate information about specific airline remuneration in Europe and elsewhere. Tax rates are normally found on national government websites. Cost of living comparisones are more difficult to establish accurately, but it's safe to say that western Europe is considerably more expensive than most of the USA.