Foreign Instuctors

[I.R.PIRATE]

I was just wondering about the legalities concerned, when an American pilot, with a validation, gives instruction, to another american pilot, who also holds a validation, on a South African registered aircraft?? Neither of them are "technically" rated on type, but fly under the ridiculous FAA system of everything below 12500 goes. Any comments?? What would the insurance implications be?? Is it legal??

[B Sousa]

"Neither of them are "technically" rated on type, but fly under the ridiculous FAA system of everything below 12500 goes"

OK.Maybe you dont understand the ridiculous system. Not everything goes. We dont have a stamp on our forehead with a list of every aircraft we are checked out on......
In SA you have a book which is your license and it shows your aircraft checkouts. We have a license (shows ratings, ie. F/W R/W) and all aircraft we are checked out in are denoted in our flight logbooks. If one wanted to check on the instructors currency he had better be able to produce a log where he was checked out and another entry as to his currency.......
Anything over 12,500 requires a type rating on the license and currency in the logbook.
ITs much easier that way as you are always checked out in the aircraft, but possibly not always current. I think possibly in SA Checkout and currency are synonymous.
Another little tidbit. FAA license never expire. Medicals expire. Lets say I was a Cessna 206 qualified pilot. My license would show Private, Comm. etc. Single Engine land. I would also have to produce the appropriate Medical valid for class, 1,2,3. AND my currency would be denoted in my logbook. NO Medical, license is suspended. You can hang onto it until you get a new Medical, but as I said it takes both items to make the license valid.
Quite simple actually.......

P.S. the issuance of the license is free also....

[I.R.PIRATE]

Ok, I consider myself " told". Let me rephrase my question. Does one's validation include every single priviledge available on your original licence? For example, does your instructor's get validated too? And can you give instruction on an aircraft of another country? My quest is for information, nothing more, nothing less.....anyone???:uhoh: :ouch:

[B Sousa]

Relax, just trying to be sort of helpful.....
As to and FAA License Validated in SA?? I think thats where your going. In that case I can only assume (and thats not good) that a validation includes what one is checked out in.
For Instance my Validation in South Africa just says "validated as" : Commercial Pilots License.
"with ratings" Instrument Rating.
So I can only assume (there We go again) that since I only took a check ride in a Helicopter I am only allowed to fly the Helicopters I can show that I took the "Validation Ride" in.
None of my fixed wing, multi engine etc. could be used in SA.
As I took the Air Law exam(yuk), I have completed the only written I have to and the validation is as good as my medical.
So every time I return to SA to fly, I have to apply(pay) for another Validation, take a check ride and the validation Im issued will only be good for that aircraft.......The more Aircraft the more checkrides and more money... Its a real deal for SACAA.
As the Validation only says Commercial License with Instrument rating, Im sure if I were to play stupid I could use it for anything that was listed on my FAA license, who would know but SACAA.
So another flag to an operator would be for the FAA user to produce a copy of the aircraft that he has taken his validation ride, along with the validation, medical, FAA License and logbook....
Also as an FAA Instructor he will have to provide another license that shows he is an Instructor. FAA Instructors License DO EXPIRE.. They are required by regs to renew ( a disasterous process for one who has let it expire, it requires a ride with the FAA, nobody else.not fun). That is the big difference as he will have his FAA License along with his Instructors License. I can only assume(three times) that the validation will have to have that mentioned, if not he would only be allowed to excercise the Privelidges of the class license he had validated.
Now as to Instructing in ZS/ZU aircraft as an FAA Instructor. I think your going to have to go to the Regs (www.faa.gov) but I do believe that he is allowed to give instruction in the class and type he is rated to instruct as long as he has been properly endorsed to give instruction in that aircraft.
I think by now we are both thoroughly confused.
Am I getting close??

[I.R.PIRATE]

Ooh...thanks Mr S. Now just to test my comprehension...you can only fly what you were validated on. You can only give instruction if it says so on your validation. You need to be tested on each aircraft you intend to fly on your validation.??? Hope I got it right. Thanks again.

[B Sousa]

I have this fear that Im getting over my head. I have a couple friends in SA who are FAA Instructors if you want me to line you up for some serious questions, drop me a PM.
As I understand it. The Validation will be for Class, say Single engine land. You can instruct on single engine land. However, I do believe you must first be signed off to act as PIC in the particular aircraft.... Seems sort of foolish to be an instructor in a C-182 and then go out the next day sight unseen and hop into a PC-12 acting as an instructor....
As one who is getting validated, thats a SACAA question. "You need to be tested on each aircraft you intend to fly on your validation.???" My validation raises that question also.
I think its time for you to get into the regs. Although I think we are close, close only counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades.

[Irv]

One problem Uk PPL pilots have when "SA validated" is that having S.E.P. (land) ratings our UK CAA is quite happy for them to be legal on anything within the SEP-land class, (assuming complexity sign off if complexity is involved ).
However, many SA Clubs don't realise they (the SA Club) can check the UK pilot out onto something new as long as he/she already has the 'complexity' level signed off. So someone who has only flown PA28s can be converted to a 172 by a SA instructor. The guy is already technically legal as far as the UK CAA is concerned, and they (the UK CAA) don't require any paperwork. So the SA club turns down good money when all they have to do is convert the guy onto their aircraft to their satisfaction.

Irv

[organ donor]

Have the AIC here, and it has a couple of pointers on it.
No instructor ratings will be validated in SA, (you have to do the whole SA comm and instructor rating.)
A validated licence is subject to the limitations and restrictions of the validated licence.
No additions can be made to a licence regarding the types that may be flown, and thus only the types authorised by the licence of the country of issue, may be flown. This also applies to other ratings.

Hope it helps.

[I.R.PIRATE]

You're the man, Organ Donor, thats exactly what I was after, thanks for the help. I.R.P :ok:

[B Sousa]

O.D. writes"No instructor ratings will be validated in SA"
Good point and I "assume" again that an FAA instructor could not give instructing regarding someone with an SA License. That I think is understood.
For some reason I thought that the question involved a person with an FAA Instructors rating giving instruction to someone in SA in SA Registered aircraft but working with an Validated FAA license. That would be acceptable to the FAA, appears not the case with SACAA? As far as SCAAA would be concerned is that the flight would just be considered a flight where a PIC was operating with a properly validated FAA license.
Since IRP got his answer, I guess the matter is dead.
Have Fun........