Apaches to receive new 'aids'

[Razor61]

bbc.co.uk

Helicopter firm lands £194m deal

The British version of the Apache was built by AgustaWestland
Aerospace company AgustaWestland has secured a £194m deal to upgrade key technology on the British Army's fleet of Apache helicopters.
The deal will see an American-made system installed on the Army's 67 Apaches to improve their performance at night, and in poor visibility.

The system will be tested and installed at AgustaWestland's Somerset base.

A spokesman said: "It is a welcome piece of news. This is a contract we have been discussing for some time."


The sighting and targeting system, which has been developed by American firms Lockheed Martin and Boeing, will be trialled in the UK in 2007.

The first aircraft with the new technology installed is due to be delivered to the Army in January 2009.

The rest of the fleet will be fitted out by the end of 2010.

The announcement came as the British version of the Apache was declared fully operational by the Ministry of Defence.

Based on the AH-64D Apache Longbow introduced by the US army in 1998, the AH MK1, an attack helicopter, was built by AgustaWestland.

The last Apache in the British fleet was delivered in July 2004

[16 blades]

The only 'aids' it needs are pilots who are capable of operating it and a service capable of using it's potential.....

...I hear the Melchetts don't like it 'cos there's nowhere to stash their clubs for their lift to the golf course.....

Gentlemen, start your banter.......

16B

[Grey Area]

£194m is a lot just to retrain F3 Navs..........;)

[nick0021]

That might explain the 7 i saw flying overhead yesterday evening ..... awesome sight :ok:

[maccer82]

Isn't £194 million alot of money just to be able to deliver pizzas in the dark?

[SilsoeSid]

maccer,

I would reckon the decking between the engines is big enough to keep quite a few 14 inchers hot for a while. As for the, 'free if delivery takes longer than 30mins', would you argue!!!

;)
SS

[Front Seater]

Grey Area,

What a great idea, all the F3 Navs retrain as AH Front Seaters, the AH fleet gets it Air Defence missile (all the LRUs are already there, as is the radar :) ) and then significantly reduce the F3 fleet (or even better multi-role other capabilities). RUSI don't really see a medium level air defence threat in the next 20 years (thanks to Uncle Sam) and therefore in the layered Air Defence (FSC, AH and a multi-role Typhoon can do the lot - not forgetting Type 42/45 for the fisheads).

TLT NITEX has shown that AH in Air Defence is not just bar room bravado, but despite the very high calibre of many F3 Navs I am not too sure whether their Service ethos, previous military experience in the Ground Level environment will actually result in a smooth transition to AH tactical operations (no JTIDS or AWACS picture giving the feed).

So, good idea Grey Area lets do it!

Oh and the cockpit heating goes up to 32 degrees so yes we can deliver piping hot pizzas but as an AAC Melchett recently said on TV when asked what an Apache can do an AH doesn't hand out sweets! :confused:

[tucumseh]

Is this incremental acquisition, or did someone forget to put it in the spec?

[SilsoeSid]

FSeater;

"Oh and the cockpit heating goes up to 32 degrees so yes we can deliver piping hot pizzas but as an AAC Melchett recently said on TV when asked what an Apache can do an AH doesn't hand out sweets!"

Thats a shame, does that mean that if I ordered KFC from the AviAtion Caterers, the free Walls Vienetta wouldn't be delivered?

SS
:{

[ZH875]

to improve their performance at night, and in poor visibility Expensive windscreen wiper blades.

[Muff Coupling]

£194M to "improve thier performance at night and poor visibility..can't see the logic in WHL statement somehow.

Does the aircraft "performance" change in the dark? Does the aircraft / engines know it / they are flying in the dark? :cool:

"Their performance"..surely not the pilots performance..they are now fully operational..will they fly any better than they do now?

"Declared fully operational by the MOD"..mmmm, hardly a vote of confidence if MTADS is required to improve current performance. Define fully operational please....nowhere with Thermal Cross- over please! Clearly, the aircraft is currently constrained.

Any improvement in pilotage FLIR, et-al better aquisition range must be coherent with an improvement in weapon range. Poor visibility by inference probably means rain / drizzle, diminishing MMW radar and active EO performance. No good to be able to fly an AH to a tactical location, if it cannot stand off and attack with its primary weapons? Or are we suggesting getting in close and dirty? If so...NVG, max 30mm and mucho fuel please and ditch the Longbow system and CRV7.

When most of the AH64 D operators are going II / NVG (US and Israel in particular-lessons learnt Iraq and West Bank)..the UK are again throwing money at jobs in East Yeovil, with little thought

Take the £194M..go COTS (spank SMART procurement..if it was that smart the aircraft would have MTADS now!..Arrowhead has been around for sometime) and buy GEN 4 NVG and a colour moving map..oh and a Pizza attachment to the wire cutters :ok:

Incoming!!!!

[LXGB]

How about giving them skids for those unitentional use of unpaved areas moments. 'Nuff said ;) ;)

LXGB

[ProfessionalStudent]

Overheard being said by an Apache driver the other day...

"Of course, for the RAF, flying is the be all and end all. For the Air Corps, it's just a means of getting bombs and bullets to the target..."

Discuss...:E

[althenick]

16B's

The only 'aids' it needs are pilots who are capable of operating it and a service capable of using it's potential.....

That'll be the fleet Air Arm your refering to :ok:

[Chicken Leg]

What a great idea, all the F3 Navs retrain as AH Front Seaters

Well that clearly won't work. The front seaters in an Apache are trained pilots, if F3 Navs were good enough they wouldn't be sitting in the back of a bus dreaming of what might have been had they been just that little bit better!

The only 'aids' it needs are pilots who are capable of operating it and a service capable of using it's potential.....

Mmmmm! Typhoon?

.:)

[ORAC]

Sunday Torygraph: Give us an enemy to fight, says chief of Britain's Apache helicopter fleet

It is the most lethal battle-field killing machine ever devised. Weighing 10 tons and bristling with awesome weaponry, the Apache attack helicopter will revolutionise the way that battles are fought by the British Army.....

Although 9 Regiment AAC, which has its headquarters at Dishforth Airfield in North Yorkshire, has only recently passed the tests to take part in military operations it has already begun training for war. Afghanistan is likely to be the stage where the Apache cuts its teeth in battle. The unit is the first of three attack regiments that will be part of 16 Air Assault Brigade and will be used to support the infantry, Royal Navy and the Special Forces on operations.

Lt Col Richard Felton, the unit's commanding officer, who has spent the past 18 months training his regiment, which is equipped with 16 Apaches, insists that his troops need to gain operational experience. He emphasises that while the Apache is an awesome killing machine, it will also be used in a wide variety of peacekeeping operations.

"I think it is absolutely imperative that we are sent on an operation and whether it is Afghanistan or Iraq is not up to me but I hope it will be somewhere soon," said the 40-year-old colonel. "These helicopters cost £30 million each. That's a lot of money and I think we have a duty to demonstrate to the British public that they have got value for money. "Morale among my troops couldn't be any higher; we are in the perfect position to go on operations."

Col Felton has 580 soldiers under his command, but only 54 are Apache pilots, including one woman who is taking the Apache course.

"The Apache pilots are pretty special people but so are all the members of the regiment," said the colonel who is also an Apache pilot. "They need to be trained Army helicopter pilots before they can apply to fly Apaches and there is a 15-20 per cent failure rate on the course.

"To fly the Apache you have you have to have a large mental capacity to process and analyse data. Many pilots can't cope with the amount of information coming at them and they get over-stressed.

"Apache pilots have to have the capacity to absorb the data, fly the aircraft into battle, locate and destroy the enemy and return home all at the same time as the enemy are trying to kill them.''Not easy, but at the end of the day we will have the best trained attack helicopter force in the world."

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Wow! absorb data, fly, do your job and chew gum - and all at the same time!. How do they do it......

Such modesty...... :}

[Arthur's Wizard]

Wow! absorb data, fly, do your job and chew gum - and all at the same time!. How do they do it......

How?

''Not easy, but at the end of the day we have the best trained attack helicopter force in the world." ;)

That's how.

[MightyGem]

Wow! absorb data, fly, do your job and chew gum
Army pilots don't chew gum! They suck "Mission mints" aka Trebor's Extra Strong. :cool:

[Compressorstall]

So - Army pilots suck??

[SASless]

What a breath of fresh air....an attack pilot that wants to eat meat! Some one give that man a Cavalry Stetson! OOHRAH! Get Some!

Mind you....it is a wee bit different on the two-way rifle range in Iraq or Afghanistan than on the plains of Salisbury.

Maybe he will see action at Gleneagles in July....the deployment will be easier than to the sandbox.

[MightyGem]

So - Army pilots suck??
Damn! Walked into that one didn't I? :(

[Compressorstall]

Couldn't resist. Made things a little more cheery after an otherwise dull day. I would have thought that the AAC chose something a little more upmarket than Trebor Extra Strongs, but then again, isn't there enough hot air in the cockpit?

[timex]

''Not easy, but at the end of the day we will have the best trained attack helicopter force in the world."

That has to be proven yet.............until then

[Compressorstall]

That has to be proven yet.............until then

Back to the mints then...will there be a selection?? I do hope so. Are the night-time mission mints NVS compatible?

[Tourist]

''Not easy, but at the end of the day we will have the best trained attack helicopter force in the world."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That'll have to be a bloody long day then!!
I figure about 16 hrs merely for @rse/elbow recognition training!
How many hours it'll take to surpass 847 NAS standard I cannot imagine, especially at night.



:E

[diginagain]

Kettle, pot, black.

Nothing changes.

Good luck 9 Regt, in all your endeavours. Sometimes I wish I was still there. Still enjoying the mission mints BTW.

[flygunz]

Tourist
It would appear that your elbow points down and like your post is strangely brown!!;)
I would be very suprised if you've sat in an Attack helicopter let alone flown and operated one.
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought 847 is equipped with the Lynx in an armed utility role with NVG as the sole night flying capability. It's not difficult operating at this level as the Army have been doing that for years. The real challenge is Attack Aviation with all that comes with it... no comparison, it's a new standard.
Back in yer box sailor
:{

[ORAC]

They may get their chance sooner than they think....

Financial Times - Blair set to send 2,000 troops to Kabul

Tony Blair is preparing to send up to 2,000 troops to Afghanistan next year when Britain takes over control of the Nato peacekeeping mission in the country.

The Ministry of Defence yesterday confirmed that plans were being made for a deployment in the spring but said a final announcement was unlikely before the autumn. The Conservatives pressed the government to provide further details of the size and nature of the force and requested assurances that the deployment would not affect UK counter-insurgency efforts in Iraq.

The MoD dismissed as "speculation" reports that as many as 5,000 troops would be sent to the south of Afghanistan, one of the main areas for opium cultivation and a frontline in the fight against insurgents linked to the former Taliban regime. A British official said no firm decision had been taken beyond deploying the headquarters of the British-led Allied Rapid Reaction Force. But the MoD is looking at a force of between 1,500 and 2,000 troops. The final figure will depend on their location, the extent of their responsibilities in backing up local security forces and whether they need communications support if spread across inhospitable territory. The UK already has 500 troops attached to the international force in Afghanistan.....

[Tourist]

Correct me if I am mistaken, but is the lynx nvg/thermal sight combination not far better at night than the Apache system?
I was under the impression that the Amatuer Air Corps was intending to talk the Apache onto targets with the Lynx?

[SASless]

We used MH-53's to guide the Apaches to the radar station hit on the opening of Gulf One as I recall. Wonder if it was the lack of the right kit....or the lack of Nav ability? But those were older model Apaches. So much for the amazing GPS nav systems in use today....

[HEDP]

Tourist,

Consider yourself mistaken and corrected!

Lynx is not a better system by any stretch of the imagination.

However; it doesn't stop an already better system being further upgraded. The upgrade has been procured post US development therefore minimising R & D costs.

Regards

HEDP

Sasless,

The MH53's had GPS, the Alpha model AH didn't.

All AH now have, no issue!

Regards

HEDP

[MightyGem]

IIRC, the Apache US, UK, Dutch etc, has been waiting for this upgrade for some years now.