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Capt.KAOS
25th May 2005, 09:29
Where Bush, Rice and Blair frightened the public about Saddam's atomic mushrooms over London and Washington (possibly within 45 mins), the real perpetrators are doing their shady nuclear deals from places nobody expects.

Read this frightning article (http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/05/middleman.html) called "The Middleman".

Now I mentioned the name Kahn before on this forum. He is a hero in US' ally in the War on Terror; Pakistan. The White House knows about Kahn's nuclear supermarket. Yet it allowed Pakistan to pardon Kahn if the U.S. were allowed to move freely in northwest Pakistan in a major search for Bin Laden. Pakistan's President Musharraf offered tribal help in capturing Bin Laden.

Robert Gallucci, a former United Nations weapons inspector who is now dean of the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service, calls A. Q. Khan the Johnny Appleseed of the nuclear-arms race....Gallucci: 'The scariest thing about all this [is] that Pakistan could work with the worst terrorist groups on earth to build nuclear weapons. There's nothing more important than stopping terrorist groups from getting nuclear weapons. The most dangerous country for the United States now is Pakistan...' Gallucci went on, 'We haven't been this vulnerable since the British burned Washington in 1814...'

The Coming Wars (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact)

airship
25th May 2005, 12:14
We should consider giving any country that wants them and asks nicely, a few nuclear weapons from our ample stockpiles (we have more than we could possibly ever use after all) and another few to their neighbours at the same time. MAD has worked very well for us during the past half century. Mutually Assured Destruction even appears to have worked wonders for relations between India and Pakistan most recently. Why shouldn't MAD work to maintain peace in the Middle East too? Or even Korea for that matter?

The longer we continue to prohibit sovereign nations from acquiring the bomb, the more incentives they will have to use all other means. That'll mean the development of even more sophisticated illegal channels of technology and materials transfer which would probably make Kahn look like an amateur. And which would probably be even more amenable to supplying terrorist groups.

Then all we'd need is a mini-arms race in these new MAD regions which would bankrupt all the non-viable regimes, just like the USSR... ;)

c-bert
25th May 2005, 12:16
Sound idea, except for the concept of suicide bombers who would quite happily settle for mutually assured destruction....

Capt.KAOS
25th May 2005, 12:29
Airship, probably this goes for drugs as well, as it did for alcohol after the Prohibition...

Watched a TV documentary about nuclear proliferation recently. A UN weapon inspector showed a CD with the designs of centrifuges needed to enrich uranium. This was on the black market right from the shelves of Mr.Kahn's nuclear supermarket. Asked for the value of the CD, he said it would be millions. Iran for sure got this info. Without it, it would have been years away from where it's now in nuclear technology.

airship
25th May 2005, 12:48
Without it, it would have been years away from where it's now in nuclear technology. We're talking about technology some of which goes back over 50 years...?! How long can we hope to stop stuff like that getting out?

It's a shame the Chinese couldn't keep their gunpowder technology a secret way-back-when...?! :(

And when you have to admit that there are probably Boeings and Airbuses flying today using counterfeit parts, well... :uhoh:

scrubed
25th May 2005, 12:52
Mutually Assured Destruction even appears to have worked wonders for relations between India and Pakistan most recentlyThere'll never be another opportunity like that again......

Fg Off Max Stout
25th May 2005, 13:45
MAD relies on both parties valuing their own lives as exemplified by the East West stalemate of the Cold War, but even then on several on occasions through misinterpretation, errors or escalation things nearly kicked off - think of the Cuban missile crisis or Ex ABLE ARCHER 83.

MAD would simply not work if fanatical Muslim terrorist organizations gained a nuclear capability. Firstly we would still have an asymmetric warfare situation where it would be very difficult to fight back and secondly, the concept of death is generally no deterrant, in fact sometimes it is an incentive to these chaps. If they wipe out any number of infidels and get taken out in the process, their job is done and they still collect their reward in heaven.

Unstable countries, third world nations and dictatorships must not be allowed a nuclear capablility. If you argue that it is hypocritical that we retain a nuclear capability, then bear in mind that I do not believe the UK would ever use nuclear weapons offensively. I do not have the same faith in many other nations.

Prevent nuclear proliferation.

Onan the Clumsy
25th May 2005, 13:55
airship bad idea simplistic at best. I can only echo FOMS that MAD if it worked at all worked because there was more to lose than gain by settin gone off and even in the USSR, I thinnk that life had some value.

I don't think the people you discuss have the same fellings towards being alive, for that matter they probably consider themselves stateless anyway putting their ideology before geography.


A much better method would be to set them against each other. Let Iraq fight Iran, let them be the test grounds for or weaponry. After all some day we may need it to fight a real enemy...North Korea.

tony draper
25th May 2005, 14:38
Well a good idea would be to hit Iran and N Korea right now, or at least take out their nuke capabilty, why wait? hit the feckers now.

Parapunter
25th May 2005, 14:46
& one sposes China would look the other way:rolleyes:

tony draper
25th May 2005, 14:53
I think China would be over the moon to have the million square mile lunatic asylum next door removed from the face of the earth,in fact we might persude them to take the contract, they have developed a taste for butter rather than guns of late, the good times have finally arrived for the Chinese.
And Iran? who would give a shit if it dissapeared.

SmilingKnifed
25th May 2005, 14:56
Hit them with what Tony? With our (and the US' capability) we don't want to be having a crack at NK unless we're looking to get a right kicking.

tony draper
25th May 2005, 14:59
Hit em with a few nukes of course, give them a taste of what will happen to them should they try it on with the west.

Capt.KAOS
25th May 2005, 15:01
Airship, we're talking about 8-12 years that should have taken Iran to develop the centrifuge technology. I rather have that in my back pocket when dealing with the Iranians (or issit Iranii??).

Herr Drapers, a good idea? ever thought of the consequences, for S.Korea for instance?

With the current steroid confrontational policies of the Bushites one may almost count on the fact that (rogue) states will apply for Mr.Khan's fireworks. New nuclear weapons are already been tested by the Pentagon throwing the World into a down spiral, or at least creating the atmosphere of letting out the dogs o' war.

Always thought that strategic forces like the "mighty" US$, Microsoft and McDonalds are a much better weapon to strike the enemy and certainly a much lasting one...

PorcoRosso
25th May 2005, 15:03
Am sure the South Korean are not sharing your views, Tony .
As soon as your nukes are launched to NK, their Nukes will be on way to Seoul ....

tony draper
25th May 2005, 15:05
Thinking more in terms of a decapitation strike,take out the leadership and Nuclear facilities in N Korea,take out the Beards and the Nuclear facilities in Iran, after all Isreal decommisioned Saddams Nuke prog for few decades very successfully.

Capt.KAOS
25th May 2005, 15:27
Herr Draper, do you really think the Iranians and NKoreans don't know abt the strike on Saddam's nuclear plant and have learned from it? This is the exact reason why Israel hasn't attacked the Iranian nuclear plants until now. What has been photographed from the air is only a part of the whole picture. And if (and I'm sure it is) intelligence is on par with that of Iraq, the West is in a very sorry state...

Ozzy
25th May 2005, 15:37
No need to use nukes Mr D, a few MOABs up the spout of NK and Iran would be just as useful in decapitating the nutcase in NK and the fanatics in Iran.

Ozzy