4 SAA cadets fail their SAA interview

[jbayfan]

Heard via the grapevine that four cadets currently at the commuters (3 at SAX and 1 at Link) failed their SAA interviews. Apparently their technical knowledge was nonexistent. However, SAA wants to give them additional training to get them up to speed. Wake up SAA! It's not their ability that's the problem, it's their attitude. They get their career on a platter and think that their move into SAA is an entitlement. Give them a wake up call and give these 4 the boot.

[Exhaust Manifold]

What a waist. People like that should be kicked out the industry. They've been given a golden opportunity and they throw it on the ground and jump all over it. :*

[Putcodrvr]

I agree. Kick them out and give the sharp ones that are flying with the contract companies a chance. These ones have at least proven there ability and are now flying as P2's on contract.
Please note; get rid of those ones that are not making it. DO NOT swop them with the contract guy and gals!! If they cannot perform to a minimum standard where they are now, there's no way they will hack it in the contract world!
Not that DILLIGAF!

[jbayfan]

Spot on Putcodrvr! They should all have to do a stint on contract with Solenta or similiar. But first you will have to make them give up the nappies and dummies and put away the spoon.

I'd be prepared to bet that those cadets who were at Rossair are the most capable and mature pilots who have yet moved on to SAA!!

[Shrike200]

I'm sure that some way will be found to reward (or at least not punish) any incompetence they may have displayed....

[spacedaddy]

When do I become hesitant to flysaa.com?

[Recuperator]

SD, You're too late mate, sorry! :yuk:

[Gimbal]

SAA is definitely not obligated to hire these guys...and if the selection board feels that they are not worthy, then they(cadets) should continue with their current jobs or apply to other airlines. And if they still want to get into SAA they should submit multiple CV's just like the rest of us poor sods.

SAA should cut these people loose once they get their comms.

[cigar]

Just to carry on what you guys said before, this whole thing sickens me to the pit of my stomach!! I can think of 20+ (myself included) people who would give body parts to be flying a JS41, but this lot think it's owed to them.

I just hope SAA sees the light and sends them packing.

[Recuperator]

SAX and Link has always been "feeder" airlines for SAA.

These cadets are mostly the "under-privileged ones", thus the pressure will eventually mount on SAA to take them , either because of pressure on SAA from cabinet, the cadets uncle who is minister of xxx or to get their quotas right to be inline with BEE policies and affirmative action policies.

Say no more:yuk:

[cigar]

Its also not fair on the 'previously disadvantaged' cadets either. You cannot fast track someone into a post that needs years of experience and training and not expect them to bugger something up along the way. Its a shame really.

[Recuperator]

Did someone post the 4 "previously disadvantaged" cadets CV's for them to go to the SAA interview or were they forced by SAA to go to the interview.

Either way, they went unprepared and lacked what seems like basic theory and knowledge, not experience, because if they lacked experience or the hours they would surely not have qualified to go to the SAA interview?

So where is the unfairness of that?:confused:

I am also sure these cadets are still flying with Link and SAX, that brings me to my next question, how did they get in there with their lack of knowledge and why are they allowed to fly in these feeder airlines and risk the general public's lives?

I sincerely hope there was some feedback to the feeder airlines from SAA to sort these cadets out w.r.t their theory and attitudes.

The cadets are lucky to have old hand, truly experienced captains that weren't "disadvantaged" and therefor still with the feeder airlines, to hold their hands to keep them alive, while the cadets "prepare" themselves to join SAA. :yuk:

[2BNASty]

Totally off the topic but...
I have family that was born in south africa, I think all have relinquished their passports and live Downunder - what are the chances of employment with SAA? I know they rather employ locals as all national carriers do - are there many foreigners working there?
Cheers
2b

[Shrike200]

The impression we tend to get is that they would rather employ people with black skin, regardless of whether you're from SA or not. I remain hopeful that this is just an incorrect impression though....

[B Sousa]

"The impression we tend to get is that they would rather employ people with black skin, regardless of whether you're from SA or not. I remain hopeful that this is just an incorrect impression though...."

Now theres a no-brainer. Whos runs the country now?? Remember when Tshwane was Pretoria??
Hang on theres more on the way...........

[forssi]

"Pretoria is Pretoria!!!!"

"AA'(affirmitive action" just doesn't work anymore. I think 10 years has been long enough, and everybody is supposed to be equal..........give us desperate "whities" a chance again. :{

[B Sousa]

Forrsi, guess you havent read your utility bill lately or the latest rulings from the big pow wow in Bloemfontein.

[ImageGear]

Think about it, the family sold everything, upped sticks and left for Oz and relinquished their passports for what - more of the same ? NOT. They did it for their future and for their children.

Dont expect anything but short shrift for unreconstituted expats in SAA. You will carry the scars trying to your grave.

Better you aim higher - smell the coffee. :ok:

Imagegear

[2BNASty]

Point taken by all... Nothing I wasn't aware of already cheers... happy flying
2b

[Douglas Lee]

Remember from Rossair days, seems "size" and technical knowledge don't matter no more. Suppose it's up to the Captain to carry the Co-pilot, or be replaced because his not "competent":yuk: :yuk:

[Spetsnaz]

Totally off the topic but...

In answer to 2BNASty's enquiry about jobs in SA - how about applying for chopper pilot in SAA. There will be always be a lot of work in the future carting the boss around ;-)

[snotneus]

Flying is the only job (if you can call it that) with such an amount of self study. How many of you were tought all weather ops eg.
These cadets failed because of a lack in technical knowladge, not due lack in flying skill, otherwise they would have been washed off the conversion. (Yes it has happend and will happed in the future) The problem is thus that they (cadets) lack any drive towards self improvement.

[Life'sShort-FlyFast]

The difference between the cadets and most of the contributors to these forums, is that we are passionate about aviation. To them it is just another job!!

The guys who have lived the dream to become an airline pilot and spend years reading books, building model aircraft, washing planes for the chance to be behind the controls one day. For a lot of the other candidates, it is a choice, bank clerk or pilot, ummmm pilot is nice because you get free clothes and go to other places and no 8-4. Passion?? Missing! That is why they do not even bother to prepare themselves for an interview. The boot is a great option!!

[SASless]

Am I missing something here....Affirmative Action in SA should favor the minority correct....same as in the USA? But then....it is SA and things seem to be upside down there of late. Not only are they in charge now...but Affirmative Action works for them too....now that is a deal!

[Alitalia]

What is affirmative action on paper?

It SHOULD be a situation whereby things are made equal. For example, if a non-prevously disadvantaged person applies for a position with better marks/ability than a truly previously disadvantaged person (not some guy/gal who lives in an upmarket area and is black) then the non-previously disadvantaged person must STILL get the job. If the two above have the same marks/ability the previously disadvantaged gets the job.

I have no problem with AA on paper.

However on paper and in practice are two different things.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

It is the way of things, Grasshopper....:(

[symbol]

I have first hand experience with one of these cadets, and let me take the opportunity to tell you guys out there that these particular cadets ARE untouchables! Politically, Racially and genderly.
Unfortunately for the rest of the SAA cadets currently flying in our industry (of whom I would say at least 70 percent are actually quite good),they are given a terrible reputation by their underferforming collegues such as the ones mentioned in the subject of these postings. It's time for the SAA training division to stop complying with their managements wishes or demands, and shoot these particular cadets down(don't take me literelly!). They are nothig short of pathetic, and should not be allowed to fly areoplanes.
It amazes me that SAA only found out that these guys are not suitable this far down the line. No ways, they've known all the time! But they have been pushed through every step of the way regardless of their lack of abilities or poor attitudes.

Standards are being compromised, and that takes us down a flight path that I don't want to be on! CRM prescribes that an error chain must be broken to avoid a potential accident, come on SAA heed the warning signs, and clip these particuar cadets wings for good!

[Black Pilot]

The cadets referred to in here, went through a rigorous selection process before being accepted into the cadet scheme. They were then sent to Bae Systems Flight Training in Adelaide where they graduated with a Multi Engine Instrument Rating and a Frozen ALTP. (At this stage it is important to note that Airlines such as Emirates and Cathay train their cadets at the same school and after graduation are accepted directly these airlines without an intervening internship programme). They then went off to SA Express and SA Airlink where they completed two years internship as First Officers on Dash 8 and Jetstreams 41.

Throughout their training, SAA has been monitoring their progress and all these cadets performed well in their training and performed their duties to a good standard at the feeder airlines. the interview process at SAA is therefore supposed to be a formality as the training records and reports from feeder Airlines are sufficient to ensure that these pilots are trainable and
this has been the case since the inception of the cadet pilot scheme, until someone took over the training department and has been trying to perpetuate other agendas by slowing down transformation of pilots at SAA for the benefit of white compatriots and sons and daughters of colleagues.

This person's son and other sons and daughters of people in this selection board are employed as pilots at SAA and have received prefential treatment due to connections in the system.


The selection process that was used to assess SAA intake pilots is procedurally flawed and does not take into acount the employment equity act. The persons tasked with this process have no genuine interest in seeing the transformation of pilots in SAA and will do anything to frustrate the process but this time it seems they have really been reckless and may be stripped of those powers. It is common practice for them to operate on a boerebond fashion where the fate of the applicants is decided in the coridors before they are even given the chance of proving their worth.



SAA spends in excess of R500 000.00 of taxpayers money per cadet pilot, and it is in their interest of the airline and the country to ensure that there is return on investment. this is an essential programme to bring about transformation as a result of over 40 years of apartheid in South Africa.

SAA is an African Airline and it is not acceptable that 88% of pilots in SAA are white males where the total population of white people in South African is around 10% and 90 % black after 11 years of democracy. This is important both for socio-economic reasons and complying with the law. However there are certain individuals in the Company who do not agree with the law and are putting barriers to the employment of black people as pilots in the company. Where there's a black pilot in the picture there are always issues about standards. SAA has a well established training department and it's function is to train all pilots to the acceptable standards.

The situation in South Africa today is that black pilots have to be five times better than their white counterparts to be considered competent, there is no help offered to help those who are struggling like they do with their white counterparts. Those who battle are then thrown out of the jobs and ridiculed in the media.

[ettamakwetta]

Hi Folks

I am always hearing what seems to be the extremes of South Africa. The white pilots are always saying that the black pilots are poor pilots, and the black pilots are saying they have to work 5 times harder than anybody else.

I am assuming that the truth lies somewhere in between. I would find it far more interesting if somebody could actually give me some facts with regards to the amount of black and white pilots that are employed by SAA, how many have come in through the cadet scheme, how many from the Air Force into SAA, the current mix of pilots at the moment etc. etc.

Until then, I could just imagine that either side is just part of the extremes.

Ta

[ruffrider]

black pilot

"the situation in sa today is that black pilots have to be five times better than their white counterparts to be considered competent"

I assume that you have been deemed a competent black pilot....does that mean you believe you are five times better than the very pilots who deemed you to be competent?

With that kind of thinking you wouldn't last a day in the real world of aviation and as for the CRM aspects.......god help the fare paying public!!

[B Sousa]

"SAA is an African Airline and it is not acceptable that 88% of pilots in SAA are white males where the total population of white people in South African is around 10% and 90 % black after 11 years of democracy"

There you have it Boys and Girls. BP (new to PPrune) has signed up to remind you who is NOW running the show. It also should be an indication as to who the bossman is.....
Guns got a bit uptight at me the other day for reminding him of this matter.., but its a fact of life.

BP further writes:"SAA spends in excess of R500 000.00 of taxpayers money per cadet pilot, and it is in their interest of the airline and the country to ensure that there is return on investment"

Now here is where he has no clue.......Who is the taxpayer???.....It aint Sipho.....when they are gone, he might as well buy a kite as SAA wont be flying......... You had better keep the White Boys around for a while. Without them you may be just rubbing sticks together for an engine start.
I dont need to hear the Race card either as I fly with Black Pilots daily. We all started off on the same foot.

[4HolerPoler]

You guys are really pissing me off with your "black" & "white" references. I've repeatedly asked contributors to avoid such references but you seem intent on pursuing the issue. I will have no choice, in the interest of keeping the peace, to delete any post making such references. And in the same vein "Black Pilot" has had his privileges removed.

4HP

[cavortingcheetah]

:) Dear Black Pilot.

Welcome aboard Pprune.

I notice that you registered this month.

I hope that the service at CAA/ZA will improve as the cooler weather sets in and allows for greater productivity?

I found your post to be rather ill balanced, racial and plebian.
Indeed, was it not somewhat whitewise homophobic? Did it not manifest a degree of egocentric self indulgence of the sort which has led to the social and economic demise of most of the rest of the African continent. Democratic idolism has given way all too often to the idolatry of the dictator. By no means is South Africa a democracy!
Apartheid is alive and well in ZA. Affirmative Action and Black Empowerment are very emotive and racist themes. The lessons of the past, trumpeted as abhorrent by the advocates of the policies of the future have not been learnt. Your reasoning behind your ill judged and racist statement concerning the colourific constitution of SA pilots is risible in the extreme. In the making of such statements you do but lower the standards to which you purport to aspire and you make a joke of the professionalism of pilot training in South Africa today!

You sir, have provided the intelligent travelling public with a cast iron reason to avoid flying with the South African Airways of the future.

regards from the fleet of foot:
cc.