Helicopter lands on top of Mt. Everest

[octavo]

An AStar AS350B3 touched down on Mt. Everest's peak for 2 minutes on May 14.

http://www.eurocopter.com/publications/img_wsw//350b3web.JPG

Read the story on Eurocopter website (http://www.eurocopter.com/publications/FO/scripts/newsFO_complet.php?lang=EN&news_id=317)

[Graviman]

These versatile machines just got more versatile.

Mart

[SHortshaft]

Beat that!!

I guess Bell will now have to work on achieving the first night landing on Everest with the 407!

[Milt]

Congratulations to all concerned.

Wonder what the minimum wind speed had to be for the feat.

My guess would be about 60 Kts at that high altitude.

Then that necessary wind would have to be very turbulent going over/around the peak.

Hope there was an accompanying aircraft with a photographer aboard

[SASless]

"Stepping out of his helicopter, Didier Delsalle commented: « To reach this mythical summit definitively seemed to be a dream; despite the obvious difficulties of the target to be reached, the aircraft demonstrated its capability to cope with the situation (…), sublimated by the magic of the place”."



"Mythical" summit? Was this a mythical landing then and just a dream?

:E

[overpitched]

For every 11 people that reach the summit of Everest by climbing one person die strying. Lets hope the odds are better for people that fly there.

[Shawn Coyle]

A sad day, in my view.
I rather liked the touch of class that was shown many years ago when the predecessor to Eurocopter wanted to do this, and the test pilot said:
"there are some things only men should do"
How long before there will be tourist flights to the top of the mountain?
Just because we can do it doesn't mean we should do it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

If it's possible, somebody will try ! (http://www.flymicro.com/everest/)

G

[2beers]

Very impressive!

Hat off to Eurocopter.

If some climbers think that their climb is not that great anymore, so what? If someone runs a marathon in less than 2hr 20min it's very impressive. This feat is not worth less only because I can drive my car the same distance in a much shorter time.


Showing the versatility of helicopters is always good!

/2beers

[Vfrpilotpb]

How can it be called a landing when it wouldn't have been able to switch off, it must have been under near max power to just stay in contact with the rock!

Vfr

[SHortshaft]

Talking by telephone with a prominent Nepalese politician this morning I was interested to hear his surprise at the news of the landing on the top of Everest by an AS 350B3. Apparently it is not known about by many (if any) in aviation circles in Kathmandu. This gentlemen's comment was that he was very surprised that the landing attempt had been approved by the Nepalese Government.

I remember back in the mid 70's a proposal to attempt a landing with a Bell 214 being rejected by the Nepalese Government.

Is it possible that M. Didier Delsalle was carrying out high altitude testing and the temptation became too great? Was official sanction given by the Nepalese Government for the landing? Did Eurocopter know in advance of the record attempt? Why is there an unnatural silence about the achievement in Kathmandu?

Of course, there is not much point in asking Eurocopter these questions!!

[SilsoeSid]

Vfr;How can it be called a landing when it wouldn't have been able to switch off,
:confused: :confused:
Isn't a landing defined as "the act of coming down to the earth (or other surface)"

Would have been interesting if she wouldn't start-up!! So perhaps a wise move not to!
:ugh:
Spin the blades, push it down the slope, 007 style, and do a world record auto! :uhoh:

Wasn't permission to attempt a landing with a British Army Gazelle on the top of Everest, a few years ago, refused somewhere along the official line?

[212man]

"it must have been under near max power to just stay in contact with the rock!"

Actually, I don't think it requires very much power at all, to stay in contact with the ground. It tends to be the other way round.:confused:

(PS. at the end of the press release it says the following:
EUROCOPTER is thankful to the Nepalese government and all its departments for their help and friendly support throughout this mission.

So I guess permission was granted)

[SHortshaft]

Sorry 212man, I can't come to the same conclusion. The article was written by a veteran pr man / press officer. Jean-Louis Espes is an expert at ‘telling it like it aint’. Sounds more like a plea in mitigation to me. I guess that we won’t hear the true story from either side for several years.

As several rescue missions were flown on behalf of the Nepalese authorities during the trial I can only assume that Eurocopter were out to enhance their chances of securing a sizeable sale. I am sure this ‘invasion of a sacred mountain’ will be remembered when the subject gets around to discounts.

Perhaps the local operators will also remember the rice that has been stolen from their bowl by Eurocopter as a result of them providing free rescue flights when it comes time for these operators to buy replacement machines. At periods when tourist numbers are down due to the activities of the Maoists local operators rely heavily on the need for rescue flights to stay in business.

Perhaps J-LE is going to be a busy man in the coming months controlling the damage caused by this ‘tremendous achievement’. As Shawn Coyle rightly, IMHO, said, “Just because we can do it doesn't mean we should do it.”

[High Nr]

But then again, they were the first into the air, that the copycat Wright Brothers did 14 years later.

I agree with Shawn, what a sad day.

Far too many folk have died doing that ultimate trek, now it will be done for $$$$ in a heated capsule.

The 407 will follow….again!!!

[SASless]

Climbing there is done for money....something along the lines of 100,000 USD per person for the permit to go for the summit. At least then this could be the ultimate Tour Ride Ticket....at least in cost.

That summit fee figure comes from a professional photographer who spent three months filiming there and was deprived of the climb to the top when his permit got sold to mitigate expenses.

I wonder how much Eurocopter had to shell out for the permit?

[Recuperator]

Vfr, anyone that shuts down where it could be a compromise to man or machine is silly, even if on a beach at sea level, below the high watermark, with the high tide coming in.:ugh:


A small step for man, giant step for mankind and especially so for the helicopter industry. Landing where A380's fly is a great achievement!:ok:

[delta3]

Today the french television showed some footage at prime time.
Hard to believe this was unofficial.
Did not really look like a landing, because the top is a peak (never been there...), just touched skids in the snow

Delta3

[whopwhop]

As we can assume that the power in use would be rather high but in terms of turning it into a tourist venture would the poor girl have enough grunt to haul four lazy peolple up the hill and not only land but take off........

[octavo]

The problem isn't engine power but rotorblade efficiency and gearbox limitations. Am I right?

[SHortshaft]

No, the problem is what some people would call 'arrogance'!

I am still hearing expressions of disbelief from people in Kathmandu that Eurocopter would have done this, and comments like 'If they really did it, there will be trouble'!

[SASless]

The French....arrogant?

[Widger]

Hey,

Look on the bright side at least those climbers can now get their Pizzas delivered!

:ok:

[NickLappos]

Wow! Is there a hidden agenda here or what? Arrogant? My butt!

Landing at that altitude, with an FAI data recorder on board, and with official sanction is a major helicopter achievement. This flight had to be pulled off very carefully, and is a technical triumph. I personally congratulate the team that did it, it is remarkable.

What is the problem with a landing at 30,000 feet? Everything! Blade stall affects tail rotor and main rotor control, engine power limits effect hover capability, Thin air affects electrical switch and generator behavior because sparks tend to jump more easily. Cooling of critical systems is affected by the thin air, and hydraulic systems behave poorly up there, as well.

Remember the thread a while back about some PR guy who claimed an altitude record out of South Africa, but who forgot to tell the FAI, and who had no recorder or independant means to verify his claim? This new record is a record, and I am sure EC did not cook it in any substantive way, not with the FAI looking over their shoulder.

Does this mean the aircraft can do this landing routinely? No. I am sure an engineering team had to test and analyze every system to be sure it would work way beyond its limits, just to make the attempt with a TP possible. Does this mean the aircraft is exceptional in some meaningful ways? probably, because the ability for any given helo to land up there is near nil, even with stretching the limits as much as possible.

Cut the crap, ppruners, this is the biggest thing on pprune since the Tsunami, if you don't like the French, deal with it!

[SASless]

Nick,

All that being said....and you are quite correct...it is an amazing feat which puts Bell and their recent 407 efforts well into the shade.

The other questions that have been raised are also quite valid...and in no way detract from the actual accomplishment.

One can only assume that all the correct palms were pressed prior to the event and there will be no back lash from the authorities in charge of access to the mountain.

As to my question about the French.....history speaks for itself on that one. :E

[Aesir]

I totally agree with Nick, this is truly a magnificent feat.

Thanks to people like Pilot Mr. Didier Delsalle and Eurocopter and everyone else that dares to test the boundaries of helicopters in a controlled manner, we can look forward to technological advances in the field.

That Eurocopter did this remarkable landing in a serial AS350B3 is even more impressive.
And they did the landing again the next day.

If the Nepalese later have a problem with this then the Chinese might not.. remember Mt Everest lies on the border of China/Nepal.

I´m convinced that the landing was sanctioned by the Nepalese government and all permissions and authorisations received, otherwise the FAI would have nothing to do with the record attempt.

Maybe the Nepal governement is getting concerned about the terrible death rate of climbers attempting to climb Everest and would like a rescue helicopter developed that could actually land and rescue climbers at those altitudes..

[Buitenzorg]

Thank you, Nick, for saying what I wanted to say, but in a much more mature and reasoned manner than I could have.

The automatic slagging of any feat accomplished by anyone French is really getting tiresome. Grow up, people!

Congratulations to Eurocopter’s team are well in order – and considering their record on setting recognized world records, I’ll bet this achievement was planned and prepared very thoroughly indeed.

[What-ho Squiffy!]

Good on you Nick! I was becoming increasingly depressed while reading the posts regarding the record flight. I thought the "tall poppy" syndrome was pretty bad in Australia, but it seems to be alive and well in Pprune as well.

There's nothing worse than people sitting on their fat spotty behinds slagging off at other people having a go.

[407 Driver]

Congrats to Eurocopter and Mr Delsalle a job well done.

Bell was in the area a few months ago, and if their pilot and crew felt the 407 could have pulled the ultimate mountain landing off ...they may have tried. The facts are....they never.

The first landing and the honor goes to a B3. That's the fact.

As a mountain pilot, I say...well done :ok: :ok:

[whoateallthepies]

It is the most amazing thing I have heard in a long time.

It is a fantastic accomplishment and huge congratulations should go to Mr Delsalle and his team from Eurocopter.

Well said Nick.

[Head Turner]

Great achievment - but how was it done. Was it a standard B3 off the production line and fitted with oxygen equipment for the pilot or were there lots of tweeks to the engine and blades.
Just curious to know if it was standard.

[Brilliant Stuff]

Head Turner

I would like to know that as well.

Someone should ha the answers.

[eagle 86]

Don't see what's so good about this - don't see what kudos for eurocopter there are - almost any modern machine could do the same or better - don't think there is much commercial value in a b3 doing this - maybe i'm having a cynical day!!
gags e86

[NickLappos]

eagle 86, you are quite wrong, there are few machines that can land at 20,000 ft let alone 30,000.

Regarding how much it was stretched to do this, I would guess quite a bit. This is so very far from the norm, no production machnie can do it without lots of limit exceedence, wisely done by a flight test team, as in this case, I am sure.

[eagle 86]

As I said, having one of those days - got a lot of time in AS350's of various mods - don't rate them as anything special - still stand by my statement that almost any modern machine given the right preparation/team could emulate the feat - it is my fervent hope that we now don't see a rush of other manufacturers trying to outdo each other!!
gags e86

[SASless]

Eagle...

Unless my geography lessons are all wrong....once you have done Everest....you have done it. Shy of heading for the Moon or something....the highest landing has been done....and it is time to move onto other things.

A thought would now be for that aircraft to head for either Death Valley or the Dead Sea and land below sea level....thus it would have landed at the lowest and highest places in the world.....throw in a couple of Pole landings....and a circumlocation about the Earth at the equator..........and one about the Earth along the Greenwich Meridian....and they pretty well have it wrapped up.

[B Sousa]

No Sasless your wrong again........Have to show some class and land on Everest in a Robbie. I bet Mr R is planning on it already.
Easiest way to do it is slingload it up with a B407 and punch it off.
Then we can go on to the next dumb trick...

[What Red Line?]

I don't believe it was too important which manufacturer finally did it, it all came down to who had the ship that could do it.

Well done Eurocopter! That was a class act and one that will remain kinda hard to follow.

I do feel sorry for those of you who feel it necessary to dine out on sour grapes though. C'mon guys, recognize an historical moment and a great achievement.

[octavo]

More about the landing, including video (http://www.mounteverest.net/story/FrenchEverestMysteryChoppersUtopiasummit-VIDEOMay272005.shtml)

[Aesir]

Absolutely amazing video... this is the greatest achievement in the aviation industry for years.

To "Head Turner".. They say it is a serial B3, so that must mean it´s a standard B3 off the production line.

Fitting it with different engine or changing any power line components would mean it would have to be registered as experimental, which it was not, thus it must be a standard B3.

I hope mountaineers see this as a very postive thing for they´r sport since now perhaps it will be possible to rescue people from the mountain instead of leaving hurt or sick people for dead, since they´r fellow climbers are to weak to do anything except get themself to safety.

[chopperdr]

standard yes, but very light.
- no interior
- seats removed
- no anti collision lights
- no step
- no skid shoes
- no beaver tails

impressive all the same
dr

[No Foehn]

The French weekly "Air & Cosmos" reports that 150kg was saved by removing the radio and "cabin comforts", but that it was otherwise a standard machine.

Regarding the ethical side, way too much is being made of the "sacred mountain" aspect. Everest has been exploited for decades and in exchange for expedition fees has been turned into a trash heap of old oxygen bottles, climbing equipment and corpses. A pair of skid marks on the summit pales into insignificance.

Bravo Eurocopter!

[SASless]

There is a reward for Sherpa's who fetch down the mountain O2 bottles.....seems there are about 200 corpses scattered about the place....almost as bad as Iraq on market day.

[cyclicpushover]

I heard he had 60kts on the nose .Is this true? Still, what a feat,won't do that in a robbie.:ok:

[B Sousa]

"I hope mountaineers see this as a very postive thing for they´r sport since now perhaps it will be possible to rescue people from the mountain instead of leaving hurt or sick people for dead, since they´r fellow climbers are to weak to do anything except get themself to safety."

Aesir
Whoa...hold on a minute. I think this is way off base. Im betting that if the guy added a snowball from the top he would have been overgross. Movements etc were probably done very gently versus hanging, one skid in the snow and dumping three hundred pounds of idiot climber in the side door.
Dont give these rich "explorers" any reason to go out and kill more than they have already, just so they can be in National Geographic in a couple hundred years when they are found.

[Aesir]

B Sousa

We´ll I obviously didn´t mean that a standard B3 could be used for rescue of the top of Mt Everest.

But this could be a lead towards developing a helicopter that could rescue people off high altitude places.

Only a few day´s ago nobody thought it was even possible to land helicopters on Mt Everest and now suddenly its been proven that it can be done.. We´ll then rescuing someone from these altitudes is probably not so impossible either, is it?

These "Rich" mountaineers will continue climbing mountains, rescue helicopter or not!

Just because some people can afford to use money to climb mountains or sail the sea´s or go to vacation in Thailand does not mean they should not be rescued if at all possible, if they need it.

[Delta Julliet Golf]

Must've been quite a ride!

Well done Eurocopter!

DJG

[Heliport]

Extract from Eurocopter Press Release Eurocopter

On May 14th, 2005 at 7h08 (local time), a serial Ecureuil/AStar AS 350 B3 piloted by the Eurocopter X-test pilot Didier Delsalle, landed at 8,850 meters (29,035ft) on the top of the Mount Everest (Kingdom of Nepal).

This tremendous achievement breaks the World Record for the highest altitude landing and take-off ever, which sets an ultimate milestone in the History of Aviation.
After taking off from its base camp Lukla on May 14th, 2005 at 2,866 meters (9,403ft) Didier Delsalle onboard his Ecureuil AS350B3 reached the top of Mount Everest.

As required by the FAI (International Aeronautical Federation), the aircraft remained landed on ground more than 2 minutes on the top of the world before flying back to Lukla.

This feat was renewed the day after.

Stepping out of his helicopter, Didier Delsalle commented:
"To reach this mythical summit definitively seemed to be a dream; despite the obvious difficulties of the target to be reached, the aircraft demonstrated its capability to cope with the situation, sublimated by the magic of the place”.

Achieved with a serial helicopter, this absolute World Record once more contributes to underline the unique qualities of the Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B3 as a multipurpose, reliable, quick and comfortable helicopter which emerges as the most performing aircraft in the world in the most extreme conditions.

During the trial period, Didier Delsalle and his Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B3 flew some rescue missions on behalf of the Nepalese authorities demonstrating the operational capabilities of the aircraft used to set the altitude landing and take-off World Record.

This feat has been achieved further to various flight tests begun one year ago with the Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B3 among which:

-- Experimental flight up to 8,992 meters (29,500 ft) in April 2004 in Istres (France)
--“Time to climb” records to the heights of 3,000, 6,000 and 9,000 meters performed on April 14th, 2005 in respectively 2 minutes 21 seconds, 5 minutes 6 seconds and 9 minutes 26 seconds. These records smash the previous ones held by an Ecureuil/AStar AS350 B1 with respectively 2 minutes 59 seconds, 6 minutes 55 seconds and 13 minutes 52 seconds,
--Experimental flight up to 10.211 meters (33.500 ft) on April 14, 2005,
--Landing at the South Pass of Mount Everest at 7,925 meters (26,000 ft) on May 12th, 2005, establishing a new altitude landing and take-off record, previously held by a Cheetah helicopter - variant of the Lama - at 7,670 meters (25,150 ft).

[SASless]

Calling Bell Helicopters....Calling Bell Helicopters!

Hello Bell....anyone there?

Bell?

[Aesir]

hehe.. SASless you´re not to happy about the French beiing first to the top..

Well I fly a Bell 212 out of a place that´s often called "Top of the world (http://www.thule.af.mil/) " which is Thule Air Base and I would not want anything but a Bell to work in every day here in these arctic conditions where we fly scheduled passenger & freight transport to remote villages and settlements.

http://www.thule.af.mil/images/baseshot.jpg

http://www.thule.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-061113-011.gif

There is one thing to make world records and there is another thing to build a workhorse.

Even though the AS350 is a pretty good helicopter it´s still a baby compared to the old workhorses out there that have gotten the job done day after day for 40 years.

Still one can not stop progress, there is always going to be something newer, faster and more powerful around the corner

Edited to add reply to "overpitched's" post below!

[SASless]

Aesir,

I love the 212 as you do....more so I love the venerable old Huey....but in the Public Relations market....the French are killing Bell. That is the point of my post......one look at the 429 Mockup at the HAI and then seeing how the Eurocopter folks do things....and one can understand why Bell is playing second fiddle in the market.

[overpitched]

That is an interesting link Aesir. What exactly do you do up there on a day to day basis ??

[B Sousa]

"These "Rich" mountaineers will continue climbing mountains, rescue helicopter or not!"
So correct Aesir, but in the states its the Taxpayer who foots the bill for these "Rich" mountaineers. Not high on my priority list. Having met some in Alaska who preform these missions and risk their necks, Im not sure we shouldnt let the climbers make progress with the glaciers.... They come out at the bottom eventually.
As to the record, all well and good, but what is the normal working enviornment for a Helicopter. Normally in mountainous terrain Im sure the average will be about 6000-8000'.. Yes many work higher, but they are not the norm..
So then we ask, what will a Manufacturer target as his market. I dont think its going to be Mt Everest.
Yes, Eurocopter has shown us what a B3 can do, Im still betting that a rescue at that or near that altitude would make that Helicopter into a sled......

[Matthew Parsons]

Landing on Mt Everest is as equally useful as climbing Mt Everest. Edmund's and Tenzeg's accomplishment didn't immediately contribute anything to humankind, scientific advancement, international relations, etc. That wasn't even their reason. I'm sure they realized fame would have resulted, but in the end they climbed Everest "because it was there".

Lets quit rationalizing the accomplishment, minimizing the complexity, and arguing that Everest is somehow a sacred piece of land. Lets just be honest with ourselves and recognize that landing a helicopter up there is very difficult and hadn't been done before.

Only one can be first to do it. I'm a little jealous I couldn't be that one.

Well done to all involved!

Matthew Parsons

[Thomas coupling]

It makes all these other 'sad' "world record" endeavours seem pathetic doesn't it:
round the world via the poles
solo to the pole
fastest around world

etc etc.

Taking all the technicalities into account, it must have required an enormous amount of meticulous planning with little or no room for error. This is truly exploring the outer limits of the flight envelope (possibly even beyond - dare I say it), to the extreme.

A fantastic feat - one to perhaps match the 1972 world altitude record.
:ok:

[tinpis]

Edmund's and Tenzeg's accomplishment didn't immediately contribute anything to humankind, scientific advancement, international relations, etc. That wasn't even their reason. I'm sure they realized fame would have resulted, but in the end they climbed Everest "because it was there".

Perhaps not.But it made the world get out an Atlas to see where New Zealand was .




Not a bad effort but would it be as difficult as the poor buggers lurching around the Papua New Guinea highlands 30 odd years ago in bloody old Bell 47's above 10000' in isa+15 ?

Mad they were ...bloody mad.....:p

[Nigel Osborn]

Bell 47s were a terrific machine at PNG heights. Mt Otto was no problem. Neither was landing at 14000 odd feet; no oxygen of course!:ok:

[Three Blades]

I undwerstand that there has been another heli crash at base camp this week (only half the height of the summit).

For anybody who wants to know about the hard way up Everest, I suggest reading John Krakauer's book 'Into thin air'

[Ian Corrigible]

Interesting...

Nepal government rejects Eurocopter record claim

BBC Monitoring South Asia - text of report by Nepalese state-owned newspaper Gorkhapatra on 3 June

Kathmandu, 2 June: Ministry of Culture, Tourism and Civil Aviation has said the claims made by Eurocopter that it landed on the summit of Mt Everest is a figment of imagination and misleading. The ministry in a statement issued today [2 June] rejected the claim.

The French Company Eurocopter in a press conference organized in Paris had claimed that Equirel [as transliterated] A-Star AS 350 B, third series helicopter had landed on the summit of Mt Everest on 14 May.

The Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal (CAAN) in a press statement said its attention had been seriously drawn towards the report. CAAN had earlier barred Eurocopter from carrying out any further flights in the area citing violation of the conditions of an agreement during test flights.

The helicopter was ordered to return to Kathmandu following the breach of agreement. Following the return of the helicopter, CAAN formed an investigating team, which has already completed its report.

During the investigation helicopter pilot Capatain Didier Delsale [as transliterated] had given a written statement saying it was impossible to land on the summit of Mt Everest because of the terrain. The CAAN says the written statement of the pilot proves that the helicopter had not landed on the summit.

[SASless]

Well now....we have a video....anyone crank up a stopwatch and time the touchdown? May we assume since there were no higher mountains in sight....it was Everest? Did the French violate some agreement and thus nullify the FAI sanction as a result? Wonder if some palm remains dry and rough to the touch?

Does this mean Bell has a chance to beat out the French by doing the same feat but with everyone's blessing?

Ah, this is getting interesting!

Hello Bell, is this Bell Helicopters Textron, Bell Helicopter ? Hello....Hello?

[Aesir]

Haha.. I guess they didn´t see the video of the helicopter landing on Mt. Everest : )

[ossie_late]

Ah, but was it a video made in the same film studio as the first landing on the moon!

[Steve76]

I saw the video on Discovery Channel and the interview with the pilot about 2 days after the event.

It was a toe-in and about one third of the skid was on the summit. You could see **** everywere up there so I assumed it was the Everest summit. It occured to me that with all the flags and garbage left up there that occaision for FOD would be a concern.
The video was from a tail mounted belly camera and it looked real to me.

Flying an Astar to that height and managing to accurately land it there is incredible. The risk was phenomenal. Who was coming to rescue you if you crash landed. It would be better and quicker to die in the wreck.

[SHortshaft]

Perhaps this denial is a result of the landing being carried out without Nepalese Government approval?

Why was the landing carried out in the first place? Perhaps not, as some suggest, because it was the greatest helicopter achievement of all time, but so that the achievement could be used for publicity and marketing purposes.

Perhaps the Nepalese Government's action is to try and nullify the commercial benefits of what to some in Kathmandu appears to have been a deliberate and deceitful act. (Somebody in the organizing team for this trial must have realized that they didn't have the Government approval they needed for the landing, so perhaps ‘deceitful’ is not too strong a word.)

Some of you will I appreciate now be reeling and screaming 'tall poppy syndrome', 'hidden agenda' and the like but think about it, why else is the host country denying this achievement?

It was Mr. Lappos in his post that linked the two words "arrogance" and "French" in the same sentence, not me! If another manufacturer from another country had gone into a foreign land and carried out a similar act of what some would regard as 'helicopter hooliganism' on a national icon, for commercial gain, then the same suggestion that there had been 'arrogance' displayed in the decision making process would probably also be appropriate.

One thing for sure, we have not heard the full story, nor is this the end of the matter.

[Aesir]

Ok.. in most parts of the world you can land a helicopter anywhere you want if it is not on a private property or a populated area!

What is it with this permission from the Nepalese government? I´m sure in other parts of the country no prior permission is required for off airport landings and let´s not forget that the Nepalese don´t own Everest. They share it with China.

I know some European countries like Germany and perhaps the UK, can have some strange rules for off airport landings, but that is the exception not the rule luckily.

But having said that. If it turns out that Nepal has the rights to permit landings on top of Everest and it was not obtained then it is going to be difficult for FAI to accept the record!

I have the feeling that some corrupt Nepalese officials wanted to get some bribes to allow the team to leave the country with the helicopter unless they denied that they actually landed there. the video proves the achivement.

However nothing would make me happier than to see a B407, or any Bell helicopter, earn the title for landing on Mt. Everest .

Sorry for the rambling, I´m on my second G & T ; )

[Flying Lawyer]

It's been a week of firsts on Everest.


BBC NEWS:

Wedding on top of Mount Everest
A Nepalese couple have exchanged wedding vows on top of Mount Everest, the first people ever to marry there.
Pem Dorjee and Moni Mulepati briefly took off their oxygen masks and put on plastic garlands, while the groom symbolically applied red powder on the bride's forehead.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41213000/jpg/_41213765_couple203ap.jpg

The couple stayed on the peak for a mere 10 minutes which gave enough time for the ceremony and for friends to take photos.
The bride told BBC's Newshour programme other climbers were "very surprised, they are really shocked."
The groom said other couples had wanted to do the same in the past, but none had managed because they could not get up on top of the peak together.

One Nepalese paper joked that this was a marriage which, if not made in heaven, was solemnised closest to it.

It's been a busy week at Mount Everest. On Monday, 45 climbers scaled the 8,850-metre (29,035-feet) peak - including Pem Dorjee and Moni Mulepati the couple who got married.

[SHortshaft]

Aesir,

You say "...in most parts of the world you can land a helicopter anywhere you want if it is not on a private property or a populated area!"

I wonder if that is an accurate assessment.

In most parts of the world that I am familiar with you require / shoud have permission to land a helicopter be it on private or non-private land. Would you agree that in most countries all land belongs to someone, either a private concern or a national government?

I will agree with you entirely that in many places landing a helicopter anywhere is the 'norm' but I believe that the reality is that if you do not have the permission /approval / statement of 'no objection' from the land owner, leaseholder or government authority with jurisdiction over that land then you are risking a legal action against you for trespass (or worse). It is just that we are banking on “Joe Public” not knowing this or not caring enough to file a complaint.

I am pleased to see the culture of the ‘G&T’ is alive and well in your part of the world too!

[Aesir]

Hi "SHortshaft"

I´m now on my forth G & T so I want to apologize for any spelling errors right away ; )

We´ll I have only flown helicopter´s in USA, Russia, Kashakstan, Tatarstan, Canada, Checkien, Venezuela, South Africa, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, UK, Germany & Switzerland. And as far is I knew I was only needed permission to land off airport in the last three countries?

But I have to admit I don´t really know how things work in Asian countries except those east of the Ural mountains in former Soviet union. Probably govt. officials want their palms greased with dollars before allowing anyone to land off airport, would´nt surprise me.

[Ian Corrigible]

A story in today's Indian Statesman quotes Keshav Raj Khanal, Deputy DG of the Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal, as saying that Desalle actually landed at South Col, 1,000 meters lower down than Mount Everest. Reportedly, this 'emergency landing' was also witnessed by Nepalese Army troops accompanying Desalle's B3.

The mystery continues...!

[helirider]

Have a look at :
http://www.mounteverest.net/story/FrenchEverestMysteryChoppersUtopiasummit-VIDEOMay272005.shtml

[MK10]

my local paper the p&j, carried a story today about
Sir Ralph Fiennes making a summit bid this week, but
also mentions another exped, who had alucky escape
when"on thursday a helicopter crashed at base camp
................everybody escapedwithout serious injury"
anybody heard anything?

[tommacklin]

It would appear that a local couple were married at the summit and were due to be flown out from a base camp by helicopter....


I read this yesterday:

"On Thursday, a Russian-built MI-17 helicopter crash-landed at Everest’s base camp as it tried to collect the married couple and other climbers who had scaled the peak earlier this week. No one was seriously injured, although some suffered bruises and cuts, said Prakash Adhikari of the Himalayan Rescue Association.

Another helicopter was sent to bring back the passengers and climbers."


TM

[sprocket]

Theres a one armed bloke from Cairns attempting the climb at the moment.
I hope they didn't mistake him for one of the victims.

[SHortshaft]

Apparently the Mi 17 lost an engine on finals to the Everest Base Camp. In the heavy landing that followed the aircraft lost its tail and rolled. The machine was damaged beyond economical repair.

The operator is Shree Airlines. As the accident was at the end of the flight the company is perhaps aptly named. "Shree" means "auspicious beginning".

[wishtobflying]

http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=41844


KOL Report

KATHMANDU, June 3 - The Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal Thursday said that the landing of the Eurocopter helicopter on the peak of Mt. Everest has not been confirmed.

Earlier, international media had reported that the Eurocopter’s Ecureuil chopper had landed on the top of the Everest creating the world record for the highest altitude landing.

CAAN, in a statement yesterday, clarified that the news carried by the international media was false.

Eurocopter, issuing a statement on May 24 in Paris, had said its chopper Ecureuil A Star AS 350 B3 piloted by Didier Delsalle, achieved the feat of landing on the top of the world’s highest peak on May 14.

The CAAN had formed a committee to investigate of the said landing when it was only permitted to test fly over the Everest region.

Upon inquiry, the captain of the flight Didier Delsalle in a written explanation has said that it was impossible to land because of the adverse topography, the CAAN said.

“Delsalle had only made emergency landing some 1000 metres below at the South Col due to bad weather and therefore the landing cannot be confirmed,” the statement said.

“The helicopter had not demanded permission for landing on the peak,” said the CAAN “and therefore no permit had been given and such imaginary publicity by the Eurocopter is regretted.”

The permission for the test flight has been withdrawn in view of the sensitivity from the available information as the conditions of the flight were violated, and the helicopter has been returned to Kathmandu, said the statement. (dds)

[Bravo73]

Hmmm, the plot thickens... :suspect: :confused:

[anjouan]

Just sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me from a bunch of French haters. What have HAI got to say about it? For me, that's the test of whether a record was set or not. Whatever is the case, is it still the highest landing made by a helicopter?

As for all the brouhaha about how it's such a sacred place, if that's the case why do the controlling authorities allow all the commercial climbs with their polluting rubbish up there - I would think they do far more damage than a helicopter briefly touching its skids on the summit.

I hope it's proven that it did land on the summit as the B3 is a great altitude machine and I haven't heard the Chinese making a lot of fuss about it as one or two Nepalese seem to be doing - and Nepal has a great reputation as one of the premiere aviation nations doesn't it :E

[SASless]

French aviator didn't land on Everest: Nepal:-
Kathmandu | June 04, 2005 10:41:28 AM IST


Kathmandu, June 3 : Nepal said Friday a test pilot employed by a French aviation giant had perpetrated a Himalayan fraud by claiming to have landed on Mount Everest.

Didier Delsalle, who was flying a Eurocopter, has now admitted to landing 1,000m lower than the 8,848m summit, a Nepalese official said Friday.

This would restore the earlier record held by the Indian Air Force. Flying an indigenously manufactured Cheetal helicopter last November, Group Captain A.S. Butola and Squadron Leader S. Sharma landed at Saserkangri in Ladakh at an altitude of 7,070m.

Even if Delsalle landed at 7,848m on Everest's South Col, technically it would seem invalid since he did not have permission to land for any purpose other than an emergency.

"Delsalle had taken permission only to test-fly his chopper at high altitude but not make any landing," Civil Aviation Authority of Nepal (CAAN) deputy director-general Keshav Raj Khanal said in a statement Friday.

"During his flight, the weather deteriorated and the strong winds forced him to turn back. He had to make a u-turn for which he briefly landed on South Col and then headed back. Otheriwse, he would have been forced to stray into China's air space, for which he had no permission," Khanal added.

Delsalle claimed to have landed on the 8,848m Everest summit May 14 but this hit the headlines only May 25 after he returned to France. The truth emerged after two written interviews with Nepalese authorities when he admitted to landing 1,000m lower.

Dated May 19 and 20, Delsalle's statements say he had to make an emergency landing at the South Col but doesn't make any claims about creating a world record by landing on Mt Everest.

According to aviation authorities, Delsalle's chopper was followed by another with soldiers from the Royal Nepalese Army and they had witnessed him making an emergency landing at South Col.

CAAN's statement seems to throw egg on Eurocopter's face and upholds the IAF record.

Eurocopter is a wholly owned subsidiary of EADS, the worldwide leader in aerospace, defence, and the associated services. The EADS group, that generated a turnover of 31.8 billion euros in 2004, and employed approximately 110,000 people throughout the world, includes aircraft maker Airbus, and the world's second largest missile company, the joint venture MDBA.

It is also the major industrial partner for Galileo, the European satellite-based navigation system.

A press release from Paris used the supposed high-altitude landing to extoll the Eurocopter's virtues.

It said: "After taking off from his base camp Lukla on May 14 at 2,866 m, Didier Delsalle onboard his Ecureuil AS350B3 reached the top of Mount Everest. As required by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI - International Aeronautical Federation), the aircraft remained on ground more than two minutes on the top of the world before flying back to Lukla. This feat was renewed the day after.

"Stepping out of his helicopter, Didier Delsalle commented: 'To reach this mythical summit seemed to be a dream; despite the obvious difficulties of the target to be reached, the aircraft demonstrated its capability to cope with the situation."

Desperate mountaineers and record seekers are known to make false claims and falsify records.

This mountaineering season, there was an earlier controversy about a Korean climber who claimed to have scaled a peak while the mountaineers following him said he did not.

(IANS)

[Cuddles]

At last, we won't have to hear climbers banging on about the death zone on crappy channel 5 documentaries. ie 'Above 7000 m, there isn't enough oxygen, it's cold, and there isn't a helicopter that can rescue you' Buy my book.

[wishtobflying]

Mount Everest landing and take-off : Eurocopter statement

Marignane, June 7, 2005

Further to the Civil Aviation Authorities of Nepal (CAAN) statement released from Katmandou on June 3rd, 2005, Eurocopter does confirm that its serial Ecureuil AS 350B3 did achieve the World Record performance of high altitude landing and take-off on Mount Everest (8850m) on May 14th and 15th 2005 as per FAI (Fédération Aéronautique Internationale) standards.

Eurocopter regrets the misunderstanding with the CAAN.

Indeed the permission given by the CAAN to the Eurocopter team was very clear and did concern “Everest High Altitude Heli Flight Test”, including landings and take-offs” as per Eurocopter flight test programme given to CAAN in March 2005.

This Mount Everest landing and take-off feat has been performed under control of a FAI Official Observer and according to the FAI rules, i.e. “the touch down/take-off ensure that the rotorcraft maintains contact with the ground at least 2mn”.

This World Record is currently under validation.

As shown in the video on our Eurocopter website (www.eurocopter.com/everest ) this was the case as the Ecureuil AS350B3 remained landed 3mn 50 on May 14th and over 4mn on the next day.

"Did so"

"Did not"

"Did so"

"Did not"

"Did so did so did so INFINITY"

"Did not infinity no returns"

[NickLappos]

The great thing about the FAI is that they are fully independant, and they demand documentation, typically a sealed barograph, wired into the squat switch. The seal is placed by the FAI official, who then takes the device away as proof of the event. When the homologate (great word!) the record, it will truly verify the event.

[SHortshaft]

So it would appear from wishtobeflying’s post that Eurocopter has declined the escape route offered, which would have enabled them to exit gracefully from this disagreement with the Nepalese authorities, by admitting that they had been ‘mistaken’ about the Everest landing; and has decided to play ‘hardball’.

There are two elements to this issue that haven’t been mentioned before on this thread that are perhaps worth considering.

1. That the AS 350B3 is/was foreign (French) registered and had a foreigner (Frenchman) as a pilot and as such is subject to being granted ‘over flight and landing’ approval for each, or each series, of flights. This all at a time when the Government's sensitivity is elevated due to the heightened political tension and ‘incipient’ civil war conditions in Nepal.

2. That the aircraft was on a test programme that took it outside of the approved flight envelope. It is probable therefore that the aircraft’s French Certificate of Airworthiness was not valid and that Eurocopter were operating under an airworthiness approval issued by the Nepalese Airworthiness authorities.

This is all intimated in the statement in wishtobeflying’s post where Eurocopter are reported as saying: “…“Everest High Altitude Heli Flight Test”, including landings and take-offs” as per Eurocopter flight test programme given to CAAN in March 2005.”

The question that perhaps now needs to be asked is did Eurocopter state in their Flight Test Programme that they were going to land at 8850m? If not, which I suspect is the case, then Nepal’s position will probably remain that it wasn’t in the programme, it wasn’t approved and therefore it couldn’t have happened.

Whether or not the landing on Everest took place is no longer the issue. It is now a war of words between the western world’s leading helicopter manufacturer and a sovereign government, all be it of third world status, who up to now had been included in Eurocopter’s list of relatively satisfied customers.

[ppheli]

ShortShaft.. "the aircraft’s French Certificate of Airworthiness" is irrelevant as it was flying on the F-W series of registrations (test reg's for flying objects WITHOUT a CofA) - so this was presumably ;) a test flight and did not need a CofA

[Brilliant Stuff]

Nick and PPheli

came through again with some proper details which I am far more interested.

Thanks guys.

[NickLappos]

From the FAI web site, clear indications that EC has applied for the record as stated in their press release. This surely means they did it, one cannot imagine any company setting themselves up for such a fall (unlike WMD claims!).

Make no bones about it, this is a major accomplishment, far beyond what anyone has done. It is clear that the aircraft was over stressed (in a manner of speaking) and it was not a "serial" aircraft from that respect. In other words, if I go 20% over gross weight, or 20% beyond published torque limits, I can't claim it was done with a "normal" aircraft. NASCAR fans understant this well, and won't try to go 200 mph because a "stock" car did so at Daytona.

This is the snatch from the FAI website for news of pending records:

Sub-class : E-1 (Helicopters)
Category : General
Group 2 : turbine

Highest take-off : 8 850 m

Date of flight: 14/05/2005
Pilot: Didier DELSALLE (France)
Course/place: Mount Everest (Nepal)

Rotorcraft:
Eurocopter AS 350 B3

File not yet received | Database ID 11596


http://records.fai.org/rotorcraft/pending.asp

[Thomas coupling]

Fantastic effort and well done to the frogs.

Might even manage to cancel out their defeat on the european community:eek:

Keep it coming.

[212man]

Mount Everest landing and take-off : Eurocopter statement

Marignane, June 7, 2005

Further to the Civil Aviation Authorities of Nepal (CAAN) statement released from Katmandou on June 3rd, 2005, Eurocopter does confirm that its serial Ecureuil AS 350B3 did achieve the World Record performance of high altitude landing and take-off on Mount Everest (8850m) on May 14th and 15th 2005 as per FAI (Fédération Aéronautique Internationale) standards.

Eurocopter regrets the misunderstanding with the CAAN.

Indeed the permission given by the CAAN to the Eurocopter team was very clear and did concern “Everest High Altitude Heli Flight Test”, including landings and take-offs” as per Eurocopter flight test programme given to CAAN in March 2005.

This Mount Everest landing and take-off feat has been performed under control of a FAI Official Observer and according to the FAI rules, i.e. “the touch down/take-off ensure that the rotorcraft maintains contact with the ground at least 2mn”.

This World Record is currently under validation.

As shown in the video on our Eurocopter website (www.eurocopter.com/everest ) this was the case as the Ecureuil AS350B3 remained landed 3mn 50 on May 14th and over 4mn on the next day.

[tecpilot]

Why i couldn't leave the feeling behind me, that some of you guys seems to wish, it was a PR joke?

I doesn't know the near circumstances about this record, but i'm shure that ECF is long enough in the business and they don't need lies . ECF is very good in in the market, some people say they dominate the single turbine market and their twins like EC 155 or Puma/ SuperPuma are also not hangarqueens.

May be they used a engine above the red line. Any pilot should know that engine isn't engine and important is only to have the promised power to the customer. But some engines have 10-20% more power direct from the production line. And such ++powered engines are also still "serial engines".

Anyway this flight is a milestone in the rotary world and any helicopterpilot should therefore be glad to be in this business. And Didier is still a collegue of you. Some nice collegues here! All i could say to such collegues is, first think and then write.

Methods like "instrument recalibration", engines above the red lines or "single way transmissions" are not uncommon in this business to reach records. But i don't say that there was anything like that in this record. If anybody doesn't believe, he should buy the Joe Mashman book "To fly like a bird". A former Bell Testpilot btw.

But no "instrument recalibration" helps the pilot to fly the ship. I'm shure that not many pilots of this thread and in this forum have ever flown their helicopter in the RFM certified max. altitude. Therefore they couldn't imagine the challenge to fly and to land a ship on such altitude and on such environment and the special performance Didier showed.

[anjouan]

Great news. Let's hope the FAI will ratify the record soon and silence the doubters, and frog bashers. A great achievement is just that and those who try to belittle it through jealousy, envy or other base motives only belittle themselves.

[Heli-Ice]

Great achievement by Eurocopter!

It is great to see on the video, how much tail rotor authority the guy has on the top.

May I point out that Aesir is a FAI delegate, CIG Rotorcraft commission for Iceland and i guess he is in on things there.

[tecpilot]

Although stripped of interior fittings and unnecessary equipment to save 120kg (265lb) the a/c was a standard production helicopter owned by a french private operator. Gross weight on the record flight was 1260kg (2778lb) incl. 80kg fuel.

[Ian Corrigible]

According to Rotorhub, the debate over the record landing continues, with the Nepalese govt. lobbying the ICAO and others to take action against EC. Interesting to read that Nepal considers itself powerless to undertake action against EC directly. I suppose the good folks at the FAI must be used to being embroiled in the kind of politics which surrounds world records.

News story here (http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=48564).

I/C

[Spheriflex]

Anyone seen this:
Video (http://www.mounteverest.net/story/FrenchEverestMysteryChoppersUtopiasummit-VIDEOMay272005.shtml)

[Gordy]

Old news.
http://www.eurocopter.com/everest/

[Flingwing207]

I even touched that very helicopter at Heli-Expo. Right down low on the skid - closes I'll ever get to the top of Everest!

[B Sousa]

Yes it was at HAI, way up there. No non-essential equipment on that one.......Im sure now someone will have to be the first Twin up there, first women up there, first conjugal flight up there until the mountain has more aluminum on it than dead climbers........

[and Tompkins]

I was told the AS350B3 on display at HAI wasn't the actual helicopter that landed on Everest ... only one painted to look similar.

What were those flags hanging from the rotor? I suddenly felt like I was at a used car lot! :} Oooooh I'm mean!

[Whimlew]

Helicopter Lands on Everest Summit - World Altitude Record for Landing and Takeoff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEPJzEpWJTc

[Pablo332]

Could anyone confirm or deny the barograph used by EC for certification was designed for a glider and at zero forward speed it stops recording, so two flights were made before they found out the problem?

[Freewheel]

Pablo,

At the time there was some media noise suggesting some confusion with permits from the Nepalese government, meaning the flight had to be done with the correct permit to be official.

I don't recall anything about a barograph, but that may have been a bonus. Regardless, the footage confirms the site and the achievement.