Ryan Air Good Or Bad

[SamKitch]

Dear anyone

Ive been looking around this website, very good may i add.

What Is Everybodys view on working for Ryan Air?

Personally i think there a really good company love there style.

Also any pilots who work for Ryan Air what do you think?

Thank You

Very Much

Sam

[Lolo737]

Are you taking the mick?

An application form that requires your credit card details prior to asking about your flying qualifications...

https://frd.ie/pilot/pilot.html

...says it all I think.

[eoincarey]

gotta agree with lolo on this one mate.

Dig a little deeper, you'll find a company that regularly abuses its staff, and is managed by the most despotic man in Ireland (Michael O Leary). Hell, he even charges disabled people for their wheelchairs to and from the flights, and he also charges his staff to charge their mobile phones!!

He's a nasty piece of work, and his airline is little better.
Look elsewhere

ETC

[Mister Geezer]

I personally would not touch Ryanair with a bargepole. However it's horses for courses and the time to join them was a few years ago when you had your rating paid for by the company and despite the basic salary being very low the flight pay was very good and that really bumped up your salary.

If you want to fly for them then you need deep pockets because the the near future more money will be going out that there is coming in on your pay slip!

[Olof]

Well that's not really true is it? I mean sure it's a low cost carrier but once your in the salaray is exellent. The fact that you have to pay for a coffe onboard as a pilot is a different matter though :eek:

[Hansol]

No free water on board but brand new aircraft and the possibility of a swift command.

[scroggs]

Olof you think the salary is 'excellent' at Ryanair? Read this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=156187&highlight=Ryanair) , particularly the post from Wonder Boy I've quoted in the first post.

Scroggs

[CIPO]

Yawn yawn yawn.
Here's all the Ryanair bashers rubing their hands with another opportunity to slag off the company.
I really hope the one's saying they wouldn't touch the company have a job cause boy is that foolish attitude if they don't.
So what if you have to pay for a type rating, your not going to be stuck without a job with a 737 3-900 TR on your licence. You'll have 500hrs in 5 months, if your still not happy then bugger off.
After a year you'll be earning near £3000stg net a month, 5 on 3 off. No spilt shifts and alternate 5 earlies and 5 lates.

And btw, don't see junior doctors getting paid too much for 100hr weeks............

Come on guys, it's not that bad a deal.

ps. Have fun being choosey. In 12 months i'll have 1000hrs 737NG, then you can be choosey..............

[Rednex]

Well said CIPO, agree 100% 2,000 on type now, good pay increase, great guys and gals to fly with. One would be a fool to turn down a chance at Ryanair.:ok:

[Mister Geezer]

I will stick to my 500 hours a year job... very civilised!:D

Seriously... the problem is with Ryanair is the shafting you get before you join. Having to pay for everything under the sun and starting on a not so fantastic salary once you start on line. Money may be good in the long run but if you didn't have to pay for your rating then it really would be financially worthwhile. If you offset £20,000 over time then you are not any better off than any other operator in the UK.

We are all different but FR has never been my cup of tea, however there are those who do enjoy it and good for them!:ok: Company is deep into the black and lots of more aircraft coming so the future will be bright.

[PPRuNe Towers]

So what if you have to pay for a type rating, your not going to be stuck without a job with a 737 3-900 TR on your licence. You'll have 500hrs in 5 months, if your still not happy then bugger off

Ummmmm, hesitate to offer logic but about that buggering off Cipo? How do you do that if son of Cipo with 200 hours is willing to pay for a rating and even a few hundred hours on the line at your target airlines?

A lot of you are not thinking beyond getting your backside on a seat, any seat, at any cost. Many, many holes are being dug.

Rob

[Mister Geezer]

So what if you have to pay for a type rating, your not going to be stuck without a job with a 737 3-900 TR on your licence.

Wish it was that easy for everyone. I am sure we would be all alarmed if we did a poll to establish how many people were still unemployed after paying for their own rating!

[SamKitch]

I belive that Ryan Air are a very good company and will be applying to them in the future.

Thank You

[wheelbarrow]

sam kitch



Good luck if you want to work for Ryanair.

I am glad you have set your sights so high.

Well done.

[cornerstone]

i've been working for ryanair for some time now, and i don't know what it's like to be looking for an airline job these days. my advice to anyone looking for a job at fr is to look elsewhere, it really is a horrible little company. do what you can to get a job with some other outfit.
and to the kids who have been there a year or less, open your eyes, take the longview or enjoy being screwed, you will be.

[atyourcervix73]

I see they are still charging £50 to apply, and £200 for a SIM assessment.......I bet they've got the muppets lining up to part with their cash.:rolleyes: :yuk:

[scroggs]

Cipo and others might like to do a bit of investigation on this board about Ryanair, as viewed by those who've been in the company for more than five minutes. My impression is that all is far from rosy, and Ryanair's blatant exploitation of wannabes is liitle short of criminal. But hey, Cipo, you've bought your job, why worry about anyone else? :rolleyes:

Scroggs

[Dan Winterland]

Low cost operaters are not really 'low cost'. 'Low overheads' would be a more accurate description. As a pilot, you are an overhead.

But Ryanair seems to have taken 'low overheads' a step further where the employees have become a source of income.

[michaelknight]

Scroggs,

Charity begins at home.

MK

[eoincarey]

To SAMKITCH

At the end of the day it is your decision, you're free to run your life as you wish. But it does sound like you're a little oblivious to all the nasty stuff at Ryanair. Before making a decision like this, look a little bit further than all the crap they put on their website about their employees being their "number one asset". Every airline says that, they have to really, but Ryanair is not one of those airlines that actually values its employees.

All I ask is that you do a little more research on them before accepting everything they say about themselves at face value. For instance, do a google search for Ryanair. You'll find many ongoing and past court cases involving Ryanair involving complaints from customers and staff alike. In fact, Michael O Leary is in the Dublin High Court at the moment over something to do with poor treatment of staff (theres more information about that elsewhere on this site).
Look around on the internet, i believe there is actually a website dedicated to staff who campaign for a fairer workplace at Ryanair, mainly because of the airlines complete disregard for the workers Unions.
There are also many web pages full of passenger complaints about the airline, because of the cavalier and "cattle herding" approach they take to their customers.

Its your decision mate, but it would seem that you've accepted all the lovy dovy self descriptions of Ryanair at face value, and perhaps you should read a bit more into it. I was in your position a while ago when I was thinking of airlines to apply to, and I did my homework. I found Ryanair to be a really nasty place to work, and its at the bottom of my Employment wish list! I know you may think theyre a quick way in to the industry, but they're really not.

Remember, 20k is a lot of money. Dont you want to go with your eyes wide open before you spend that amount of dosh?

Regards

ETC

[dlav]

I find it hard to believe, that say for instance a new qualified fATPL grad, would turn down a position at Ryanair or not even apply for some airlines for that fact, just because the company has a bad rep.

"I am glad you have set your sights so high"

Sorry wheelbarrow, but thats bu££****. What lovely, helpful advice to a wanabee. Cipo and rednex made very valid points. The fact is, NONE of us have a choice of who we want to work for in the future.
If people can afford to pay to get their fATPL and then be picky about what arline they want to work for, then they should wake up and have their cornflakes. Ever heard the phrase beggers cant be choosers?

Ryanair isnt great, granted. But its a foot through the door in the airline industry, and perhaps a gateway to bigger and better things once you get your hours built up. I know its ****ty having to pay for the TR on top of the endless £££££s you spent just to get your licence, but it is worth it.

The other point that hasnt been mentioned earlier, is the job security. Ryanair surely cant be a risky company to work for, in terms of laying off pilots or going tits up, look at the expansion, aircraft orders, new bases etc etc. Starting salary isnt great, pretty lame in fact, but look at the increases in pay after year 1,2,3,4 etc. Its better than EZY under the sponsered FO entry scheme.

If I were £30,000 -- £70,000 in debt, id sure as hell be taking any job. You guys no as well as I do that nothing is guranteed in the airline business, so what chance have you of getting a job if your not going to £ucking apply for it in the first place?

Right, time to go and hide id say

[arpansingla]

Press Association
Wednesday May 18, 2005
The Guardian

Budget airline Ryanair announced a 3% pay rise for nearly all of its 2,600 staff yesterday.
The firm said all its employees across Europe - apart from its Dublin-based pilots - would benefit from the rise, backdated to the start of April.

The director of personnel, Eddie Wilson, said: "Despite high oil prices and over-capacity in many European markets, Ryanair will again be one of the few airlines in Europe to award salary increases and secure careers for our people."

[Gin Slinger]

I'm sorry, but this airline is appalling. I would have to be very, very desperate to work for this shower.

Basically what the above press statement is saying is that all employees get 3%, except pilots in Dublin, who are being punished for trying to get some union representation. It's rule by dividing the workforce and rewarding the subservient.

To any wannabes tempted to join Ryanair, make sure you've exhausted all other avenues, make sure you can live with your conscience in the knowledge you are helping to poison the industry for the rest of us, join the union and get the hell out of there at the first opportunity.

By the way, in my airline, the pay rise this year was in excess of 3%, with a few extra sweeteners thrown in too. All negotiated by BALPA too.

[arpansingla]

Gin Slinger please check your PM's :D

[reverseunlocked]

Hi fellows!

maybe for some pilots who are working for Ryanair now it´s no so cool as it was when they got the job. However for a 200h pilot it´s a great chance to get that job because for him o her there is no much companies to go and for those pilots who are desperately seeking for job seated in cockpit is a success.

We can´t forget many jobs as a pilot are to get experience and improve our live moving to another company and let positions to our partners coming behind us.


Happy flights and even better landings!:ok:

[One Step Beyond]

Muppets who want to join ryanair, have a look at PPJN.
Take note of the junior FO pay: £8,900. Yes, thats per year. Then look at this little gem about junior FO flight pay:

Junior FO) No flightpay for new JFO for the first 6 months. Thereafter half flightpay for the next 6 months. This is new as of 2 weeks ago and new hires was only told AFTER they payed for the typerating and got their contract.



endless £££££s you spent just to get your licence, but it is worth it.

How do you know its worth it? You can't possibly. If you had, you wouldn't be saying this. If you haven't, you can't say it.

Flying is a JOB. Yes, that's right. A means to live by. Bit hard to do without any money isn't it.
If you aren't being paid enough (or at all), its NOT WORTH IT. Go do something that gives you a life. I guarantee you it will take about 6 months of flying for this realisation to set in. Then, unless you are in a good job, you will feel pretty stupid and very very hard done by.

Not that any of you will listen of course.

[arpansingla]

How long do you remain a JFO for? When can you start earning the full £20-£25k a year in flightpay?

[Dutchie]

Budget airline Ryanair announced a 3% pay rise for nearly all of its 2,600 staff yesterday.

Isn't it great that something you promised before is announced like a "new" gift afterwards... :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[G SXTY]

We are talking about a company that charges for reading your CV, for sim rides, retraining on the NG, hotel accommodation, coffee, charging your mobile phone etc etc. Oh yes, and pays you next to nothing for the first x months (define x according to the whims of O’Leary).

Some people wouldn’t recognise the thin end of a wedge if it walked up and said: “Hello, I’m the thin end of a wedge.”

I’m well aware that low-hours CPLs can’t be too fussy, and maybe I’m a bit simple, but I wouldn’t dream of applying to a company that treated it’s employees like that - I really would rather work in McDonalds. Doesn’t the fact that one of their most senior captains is currently trying to get the CEO imprisoned for contempt suggest that it’s not the best of places to work?

[dlav]

Right, Ive got an fATPL, so lets go make BigMacs instead of getting a flying job. I know what id pick no matter what airline.

Wake up mate

[Lolo737]

Look dlav,

I have always thought that Ryanair were the very bottom of the crap you may find after you've scraped the barrel bottom for quite a while but recently even I have thought 'hm...maybe...long term view....maybe...not too bad'

And then, thank the lord, I read the latest on ppjn.com and remembered why I will never apply.

All these people who wax lyrical may just feel that throwing money at the issue will help but the fact is employment with FR will cost you a lot more money than you have already spent.
How understanding is your bank manager?
Do you think the further loan repayments will be covered by the pitiful amount they will pay you in your first year?
Will you be able to afford to buy Tesco Value beans to eat out of the tin while sleeping in your car?
I guess most of us are used to being skint having financed our fATPLs but we're talking about a 'salary' that won't cover the very basics of a home and food, let alone the purchase of your FR uniform!!

I'd prefer not to work in McDonalds thanks but I think we all know G SXTY was making a valid point.

[dlav]

yes fair enough, but perhaps if people would care to read my previous posts, I have in fact said that Ryanair isnt the best to work for, far from it in fact. I have already raised the point regarding first year pay, and it is crap.

However, look at year two pay, year three, the increases are quite substantial, and whoever it was that made the point about not being able to live on the ryanair salary at all, perhaps they should stop getting their pints of milk from harrods, really, 35k a year is not bad by any job standards.

First let me clarify my previous points, I believe that somebody said they would never apply to ryanair if they were seeking employment once they had finished training. The point that I was trying to make was that anybody would take any job, at any airline given the amount of debt they are likely to be in. After 4/5 years at ryanair, and stilll not happy then jump ship. Youll be in a much better position to be 'picky' about who you want to work for then, than when you had a mere 200hrs.

I just find it hard to belive that a new grad fATPL wouldnt even to apply to one of europes biggest airlines for a job, who do have a track record for taking a few low hour pilots.

If anyone thinks this is mad, then please forgive me, but go to any person training for their ATPL at the mo, and I really dont think they would turn down any job offer.

Food for thought

[SamKitch]

Thank You All For Your Replys

And Thank You To DLAV especially.

Thanx

Sam

[Cavallier]

Jeez..............that first years money is a bit of a joke. I earned more in a year instructing plus I got a company tie !


The Cav:cool:

[arpansingla]

How long do you remain a JFO for? When can you start earning the full £20-£25k a year in flightpay?

[ssschmokin1]

I am told that once you have a permanent base you go on to a permanent contract and start on the half sector pay. After six months you get the full flight pay, which I am told is up to 2500 pounds if you are busy and have a UK base (and they are short of F/o s so I think you will be).

The upshot is that the starting money is low but seems to go up quite well, and you could get a left seat after four years from zero experience! Plus I know a few established F/o s and they drive very nice cars indeed......

The half sector pay alone (tax free remember) is a similar amount to what you take home on a few of the poorly paid turboprop jobs that are out there

each to his or her own but I think I would prefer the jet hours.....

ssschmo

[CIPO]

Keep flipping the burgers all you wannabes who rule out Ryanair as a job opportunity. Big mistake!
Maybe you may reconsider when you STILL don't have a job in 1,2 or 3 years time.
Don't forget to renew you IR............:ok:

[wheelbarrow]

dlav

You are a fool.

You don't appreciate that it isn't a job offer from Ryanair. It is you signing up for a good arse reaming by O'Leary.

You are offering to pay to get in the seat and then not be paid for up to a year once you are there.....

Get a grip and stop being so desperate.

People like you are allowing all airlines to reduce their terms and conditions. You are nothing but a cheap prostitute if you go for a deal like this.

[dlav]

wheelbarrow, perhaps abit of maturity wouldnt go a miss if your going to make a statement like that. We cant all have jobs.

Afterall this a forum where people should be able to express their views without being subjected to such negative responses, especially in the wanabee section.

Everyone has their own views on the various airlines within the UK airline industry, so why should I be put in the firing line for expressing my opinion of ryanair? good or bad?

Now personally I have made my point in my previous posts, and have no intention of getting bogged down in a debate regarding ryanair.

You, like many others are entitled to your opinion, but please, stop trying to force your opinions down the throats of others. Let people make up their own minds.

dlav

[wheelbarrow]

dlav

Maturity?

I don't see my views as immature. In fact many established airline pilots like me, agree that people like Ryanair are a scavenger on our industry and that the likes of you are stupid for feeding them. You will struggle to gain respect of your peers if you keep feeding O'leary with profits instead of feeding your family food.

Not everyone can have jobs? Not sure about that as a fact, but RYR have massive expansion plans and WILL need pilots in the years to come.... why pay for a job?

Justify your views rather than say I am immature.

I look forward to your usual response.

In my opinion, which is what this thread is about, I think Ryanair are A VERY BAD OPTION.

[carbheatout]

RYR have massive expansion plans and WILL need pilots in the years to come.... why pay for a job?

This does not mean that they are going to take 250 hour whipping boys. I'm sure there is already a good few type rated, well suited guys out there at the moment and these will surely be top of the pile.

Going back to the original subect, its a personal choice. For a young person with few ties and a spare few grand sitting around, it must be an option. I'd rather do that then sit on my laurels for another 3 years, maybe instructing for peanuts. If you do the maths you will see that in the mid-long term it probably makes financial sense.

[dlav]

"You are nothing but a cheap prostitute if you go for a deal like this"

"You don't appreciate that it isn't a job offer from Ryanair. It is you signing up for a good arse reaming by O'Leary"

Think of the amount of other distinguished pilots in Ryanair that, that applies too. Not a very mature attitude, by any stretch of the imagination, for such a distinguished pilot as yourself.

Now wheelbarrow, I really cannot be arsed trying to put my view across anymore. I have made my point and stand by what I said.

I can see your point, and fair do's, is also valid. I just dont think that Ryanair deserves such a beating like everyone gives it.

Like Carbheatout said, its a personal choice.

Now please, can we leave it at that

[eagerbeaver]

If you ont like the way Ryanair operate then dont apply, simple. Dont keep posting and bitching about the situation, if i was a 200 hour graduate from a flight school i would certainely be applying. The opportunities are few and far between for inexperienced pilots and you must explore all possibilities and take whatever you can get.

If its the financial side you cannot make peace with then dont apply or get invovled with the selection process. Same if percieve the company attitude towards its staff is poor.

I work for ryanair, the first six months is tough but the possibilities i will have created for the future now far out-weigh most of the aggro i have had to shoulder. You would be foolish to let them pass you by.

Dlav - i agree.

[eagerbeaver]

So, in response because my parents or whoever are wealthy enough or are prepared to make a financial commitment for their child to (i know parents who have re-mortgaged) help them gain employment they should not do it because some people percieve paying for a type rating as wrong?

I would have to say you have to be far more selfish in life than sticking to the moral high ground all the time. It is a contentious subject, but dont forget most airlines have some sort of arrangement regarding type rating training/who pays for it. Whichever way you look at it, the bond, bond-reduced salary/paying it yourself, they all have disadvantages. (i think the worst of all is the bond to be honest)


M80 - it is unfair to say people who pay have no idea of financial matters.

Do u have a job?

Why are you so bothered by something you have said you will not get involved with?

[One Step Beyond]

Why are you so bothered by something you have said you will not get involved with?

Probably because Ryanairs dragging downwards of T & C's affects everyone else and the likes of you, who buy into the Ryanair way, merely feeds this. :rolleyes:

As opposed to someone who goes to an airline that does it the old-fashioned bonding way, or instructs or whatever, who is not feeding the destruction of T&C's.

[LOOP2STAND1]

Simple: as many before have said sign up if you want if you dont steer clear.

I myself have signed up. What I have seen over the past weeks is contradictory to the rumours that I have read on PPRUNE. I have jumpseated many flights out of various bases and found most crews to be happy in their jobs, enjoying the challenging flying into secondary airports. Many have left national carriers for the opputuinity for a career with FR.

PPRUNE commentary is focusing on FR due to tall poppy syndrome.

Of course everyone would prefer a TR paid for but unfortunately the industry has changed and will never be the same.

Having been up to the East Midlands training centre many times I have spoken pilots of all experience levels awaiting assesment, all currently employed but looking to jump ship. I believe they, like me, see the future of air transport within Europe.

Loop

[One Step Beyond]

I believe they, like me, see the future of air transport within Europe.

A glorious future indeed so, precisely thanks to the likes of you. I wonder will you still be saying the same in 5 years.

[G SXTY]

Some interesting reading over on Terms and Endearment (although if you believe that paying £50 to have your CV read and £200 for a sim-ride really is a good idea because you can fly a million hours a year in a shiny 737 NG, this thread might not be your cup of tea). :rolleyes:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=176374&perpage=15&pagenumber=1