Discovery Channel '10 Greatest Helicopters'

[Shawn Coyle]

Discovery Channel is in the midst of filming a series called '10 Greatest...'.
The program is an hour long look at a variety of different vehicles, and helicopters come up as one of the vehicles.
I was approached by them to assist in the technical side, and agreed.
I'm putting this on pprune as when it comes out, I'll inevitably get pummelled for what's on the list, and what I've said about each type.
I just want to go on record as saying that the list was made up long before I got involved, and basically couldn't be changed - so - I'm not responsible for what was chosen. All I could do was talk about the unique characteristics of each one, and why it deserved to be on the list.
I haven't seen any cuts of the filming that was done, so that's about all I can add at this time.

Oh yes- someone will inevitably ask what was on the list- (in no particular order)
Skycrane
Chinook
Mi-26
Lama
Lynx
Jet Ranger
UH-1
Blackhawk
Apache
R-22/R-44
And no, there was no 'greatest helicopter' - I made sure they understood that.
Nice people to work with, and I think it will turn out well - certainly it will give people a look at a variety of different helicopters in one show.

[SASless]

Being a Chinook pilot....I can see why that particular aircraft is on the list. With the latest refurb program by the US Army...that old girl will be around for quite a while. Over 40 years so far and still going strong!

[Ian Corrigible]

Picking the 10 greatest helicopters ? Not an enviable task; I hope whoever made the selection is wearing Kevlar boxers...:}

When'll the episode be hitting the small screen ?

Cheers,
I/C

(Must resist...must resist...must resist...can't resist: what happened to the Loach and B47...dammit, back to the tantric meditation !!)

:E

[TOT]

I see the 500 is missing!!! it's been made for 40 year +.

7 variants, surely deserves a mention!!

[XT244]

Where is my "Harley Davidson of Vertical Flight"? :confused:

http://www.ils-online.ch/cgi-bin/album/data/media/44/ZBF-Nacht.JPG

[helmet fire]

also trying hard to resist, but.......
Mi 8 instead of 26 (most produced helicopter in the world) or both rather than both S64 and CH47.
B47 deserves it over the Robbo, and
Cobra being the reveloution it created as the first, longest and most produced gunship deserves it over the Apache doesn't it?
Lynx??? Strange one.

Actually, you have a damn good list there, and ANY list will have it's buts and maybes.

[canthover]

We all have a favourite that we feel should be in the 10 best......

BUT WHEN IS IT SHOWING????????

[widgeon]

no S61 , I find that hard to understand.

[Pat Malone]

I've had a minor involvement in this and lobbied for the inclusion of the 47, but the Producer maintains this is not a history lesson for purists, it's aimed at a wide general audience. Big is good, phwoar-factor and heli-porn are the driving forces. The Robinsons are in there to represent the second helicopter revolution, affordability. As to when it will air, they've only just started shooting and it's not scheduled yet.

[toolguy]

Here is my two cents:

Bell 47 - Opened the door for the rest to follow.
UH-1/B204/5/212 Series - my favorite and the Jeep of helicopters.
UH-1 Cobra - The first and still a strong weapon system with USMC.
CH-47 Chinook - Versatile, powerful and still going strong.
Mi-8 - Keeps going and going.
Mi-24 - I still have nightmares about one of these on my tail.
S-61/H-3 Sea King - Versatile, very ahead of its time when it came out.
S64/CH-54 Skycrane - Innovation, an example of doing one thing very well.
Mi-26 - Big. big big.
UH-60 Blackhawk - Tough, fast, powerful.

[SASless]

The CH-34 ought to be in there somewhere too....

as well as the Skeeter, Dragonfly, and H-19....maybe even the Fairey Rotordyne.

[Tony Chambers]

May i ask why the lynx made it to the top 10?
I do like the look of the lynx but it's unreliability surely won't alow it in the top 10. :(

[Pat Malone]

Tony: Lynx is in because it holds the world helicopter speed record.

[Dave_Jackson]

Why wasn't the world famous heavy lift Kamov - Ka 56 (http://www.unicopter.com/1009.html) not included? :D

[2beers]

Nah, Lynx is in because the program is produced in the UK...:E

[Ogsplash]

And nothing from Eurocopter/Aerospats?

[Bertie Thruster]

Shame about the B47, especially as the distinctive sound of its blades still seem to accompany any type of helicopter on film!

[212man]

"And nothing from Eurocopter/Aerospats?"

Lama?

(or is that Sud-Aviation?)

[KENNYR]

I totally agree with the comments so far. I would have liked to see the Bell 47 included in the list. I have very fond memories of the "Whirlybird". Why the R22/44 and Lynx is there is beyond me! The Westland Scout, the old workhorse, should definately have been included.

[Ogsplash]

212Man....yep, the Lama was a Sud machine. I'm sort of surprised the the AS350 didn't make it. And I agree the B47 should have been there definitely...it is the one that made helicopters 'popular' and appeared in so many areas of operations. Lynx? Hmmm...I'll hold comment on that one and I believe the S61 should have been there also.

[Tony Chambers]

the lynx might hold a speed record but it is still unreliable, you cant win the grand prix on speed alone.
There is much more deserving helis out there, they should be judged on:

1- looks
2- reliability
3- practicality
4- cost
5- cost effectiveness

if i have missed anything from that list then please add to it.

[Jonp]

Just to let you know, Channel 5 on Uk television is showing a program about the 10 best Helicopters. Its at 8.00pm local, Monday 5th September

JonP

[Brilliant Stuff]

Thanks for that.

[Bravo73]

Hmmmm, I wonder if the list is anything like this one (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175948)...

Skycrane
Chinook
Mi-26
Lama
Lynx
Jet Ranger
UH-1
Blackhawk
Apache
R-22/R-44

:E :cool:

I'll still be watching though...

[SASless]

Chinook
Huey
Sikorsky anything except S-62
Hughes 500
Alouette III

[Heliport]

Good programme, especially given the limited time available for each of the 'Top 10'.

Well done Shawn. :ok: You came over very well.

[Tony Chambers]

ok just seen the top 10 helicopters on channel 5 and the results are:

10 - skycrane
9 - lama
8 - chinook
7 - jetranger
6 - seaking
5 - lynx
4 - mil26 halo
3 - apache
2 - r22 with mention of the r44
numero uno - UH1 Huey

[SASless]

Which Huey did they show?

[mustangpilot]

That's my ride (N78NW)!
I guess I should have told everyone that the Huey was declared the winner while we were filming the show.
Still waiting to see it in the U.S.

[R22DRIVER]

Typical !!!

There i was deeply fixed into the top 10 dreaming of all the proper helis i want to fly and the Mrs gets a phone call from the mother!!!

Menopause and men conversations in the back ground really kill the sound of that huey!!!!!

Still top program tho!!! Now i know why SASless goes batting around with his guns hanging out the doors!!!

:ok: :ok: :ok::

[Double Echo]

Shawn...

Go on, hand on heart would YOU have put the Robby at No 2?


DE

[Tony Chambers]

I personally would not have put the robinson at no.2 but the reason it reached no.2 was because of it's simplicity and cost. The robinson concept allowed many pilots of today to get in to the air and for some it allowed them to own thier own helicopter.

[muffin]

I quite agree with that Tony. Were it not for the existence of the R22, I for one would certainly not be flying and owning a helicopter now.

[Spheriflex]

I would have liked to see the Dauphin; starflex from early seventies and fenestron!! Not to forget the smooth and direct handling!! :ok:

[RotorHorn]

Watched the program last night. Nice to put a face to Shawn.

Didn't know a lama could go to 41,000 feet!

Had hoped to share snippets of the program with you all in cas esome had missed it, but my Sky+ machine (PVR), had a melt down. sorry guys. :-(

Only comment from the wife in the whole hour?.... "why does that bloke's beard look like its stuck on?" (referring to Quentin Smith sat in an R44 singing its virtues).... sorry Quentin!

Impressed with the Robbie at number 2 though. The reasoning they gave included it being the aircraft that brought helo flying to the masses ('cos of its price); and that they are selling them hand over fist at about 17 a week; yada yada yada.

Robbie at #2?

Can you hear that whirring noise?

Its Lu spinning in his grave, god bless him!

regards from Blighty

RH

[Gunship]

Obviously an American program. :E:E:E

Alouette III should have been there. After 40 years still on of the best flying around.

Mi-26 great but only 25 (I think) in the World.

Why not the Mi-8/17 or Mi-24 that has won a few wars ?

[SASless]

Check my list Guns....I put that old girl up for honours too!

Mustang....I cannot believe a bottle of Jack Daniels, a ride in the Cobra....and a paid visit to that girl's pad in Seattle could get that reaction from the judge? He plainly has not flown a Chinook it appears....but he did pick my second choice!

[Gunship]

Thanks saw that SASless.

My personnel list would be :

Huey
Allouette III
Mi-8/17
Jetranger
R22
Chinook
Mi-26
Mi-24
Puma SA 330














Last BK117 and Seaking ;)

[PAXboy]

Gunsss Mi-26 great but only 25 (I think) in the World.
Why not the Mi-8/17 or Mi-24 that has won a few wars? Reason given was simple: It's the biggest! Machines were chosen for being unique at what they do. Either price = R22, Big = Mi-24, Unique = Skycrane, etc. The Huey was chosen because it was said to embody what Joe Public think a Heli is. This due to it's numerous film appearances and that, irrespective of the machine actually shown, the sound track is more often than not, the double bladed Whop-Whop!

This prog was made by Discovery ch but followed a pure UK Ch5 ideal that it must be big OR brash OR noisy OR fast OR glitzy but the more of those in one item - the better. :rolleyes:

As one who has only been in a heli twice in his life :{ and knows little about them, I can say that it was jolly interesting and told me a lot more about them than I expected of a prog of this sort on this channel. They had real people talking about real machines doing real work and that goes some!

Biggest "Hoooolleeeee $heeeeeet" moment? Watching a techie work on power lines, whilst dangling in a kind of 'breeches buoy'. I knew that you put people onto the pylons but to get them to work on lines whilst you hover? Respect

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Gunship]

Ahh thanks paxboy - after reading it I changed my mind as well.

The Mi-26 is a fabulous heli.

Not only big but such a great history ... I think only one down since new (accident / shot down in Chechney a year or three ago).

The Skycrane is also great although I have never seen one.

I remember when I saw the first Chinook I had about 7 000 hours and I had goose nipples and an immediate abdomen reaction - it is just an awsome sight. :ok:

Vivaa the Huey (yes the have an inherent balance difficiency) :E ? spelling ?

[PAXboy]

difficiency? spelling ? Too many effing Fs. :E .
deficiency (just keep taking the pills Guns and ignore the voices)

[Graviman]

Great program - just nice to see a large variety of beasts doing their thing. Guess it was a foregone about the Huey. Shawn Coyle came over very well, and got to see SASless flying with those door guns.

Best bit? Seeing the Lynx at play... :ok:

Worst bit? Realising that my overheated VCR had chewed up the Huey... :{
(It now has a large dent from the required manual reboot :} )

Mart

[Capn Notarious]

And my pooters ch5 tv tuner did not work until three minutes from the end of the prog, must wait for replay.

[[email protected]]

Shawn - you were great - are you sure Q Smith is a helicopter pilot? he looks like a bit of a luvvie with that stick-on beard, not at all a macho helo driver.

Not only is the Lynx the fastest but it is the only heli that will backflip - a completely unique manoeuvre that you can't replicate in a fixed-wing. Despite what Neil Bishop said, the loop is easy, you just have to keep the wings level as you pull up and compensate for the acceleration cross-couple that makes it roll right with aft cyclic.

Shame they didn't get an RAF Sea King to show the RN what real precision winching looks like:)

[Gunship]

(just keep taking the pills Guns and ignore the voices)

Did training for new profilers / doc checkers.

Period one - lesson - never trust or listen to a pax unless you ask him something directly.

Trust what you see (his passport and ticket)

Tx PAX ... booi for the great medical advice :ok:

Vivaaa the Huey :D

[Hilico]

Certainly that was 'a' top ten; each machine genuinely did advance the art of helicopter (to coin a phrase). However, so did several others; I was shouting at the screen 'Bell 47! BELL 47!!!!', 'didn't the 105 do manouvres like the Lynx, but earlier?' and 'walk to the tail of all of those and they'll chop your head off, but a NOTAR won't'.

But a top 13 wouldn't be an auspicious number.

[helicopter-redeye]

Typical, I'm out of TV range for the first time in 6 months and they put this on.

When's the repeat?

(and WHY was'nt the B47 on the list ...)

h-r:)

[SilsoeSid]

Hi crab@;

Not only is the Lynx the fastest but it is the only heli that will backflip
What is it then, that that BO105 does in the video doing the rounds recently?

:confused:
SS

This video!! (http://tvtotal.prosieben.de/components/videoplayer/0698/0698-00-06-wm_midband.html?mode=)

[zorab64]

And another thing Mr Crab . . .
why was it that the RAF spent so long at Royal NAVAL Air Station Culdrose learning how to operate the Sea King?? Nothing to do with the experience of rescues like the Orion oil rig - hovering between the legs of the sticken rig on the rocks in a gale, etc., etc?

A worth-watching-programme, nonetheless, despite the "beard"! Sadly no mention of the Lynx as probably the most versatile anti-ship/sub offensive Naval helicopter ever operated from a small ship - quite superb in that role. Certainly helps to justify it's position in top 10, IMHO!

.:ok:

[dmanton300]

What is it then, that that BO105 does in the video doing the rounds recently?

Lots of hugely impressive stuff, but I didn't see any back flips. Most (if not all) maneouvres appeared to be from a position of some energy, unlike the back flip which is executed from the hover. But the falling sycamore thing is magnificent.

And when we got to number 2 and hadn't yet seen it, I just assumed the Hip family would be the obvious number 1!

[Simon853]

are you sure Q Smith is a helicopter pilot? he looks like a bit of a luvvie with that stick-on beard


A previous flying mishap of his even made it into a GCSE English exam paper as a case study on journalism:

http://www.edexcel-international.org/VirtualContent/83084/4355_2H.pdf

Si

[SilsoeSid]

unlike the back flip which is executed from the hover. Is it really!!!

;)
SS

[diginagain]

Yes, Sid, it is, from a high-hover. Not a comfortable manoevre, but after a few repetitions you kind of get used to the sensation.

Edited to add; Sorry didn't see the wink first time around - you're being facetious, aren't you? Quiet night for crime in the Midlands?

[[email protected]]

SS - I was beaten to the reply - the guy in the 105 certainly does some wacky stuff (especially what looks like an inverted spin) but he doesn't backflip it.

diginagain - you're right, it does feel odd to start with but very good fun.

Zorab - I knew at least one WAFU would bite:)

[diginagain]

Didn't get to see the prog - not available where I'm currently incarcerated - hopefully it'll get repeated. (Dead cert knowing Discovery);)

Just a word of thanks to Shawn for the text-books. Helped fill the gaps in my knowledge that the groundschool instructors couldn't. I'm sure they tried, perhaps it was more my fault.:ok:

[helicopter-redeye]

A previous flying mishap of his even made it into a GCSE English exam paper

Having scanned the document, perhaps the JAR could be persuaded to use a similiar approach. "10 marks for reading the question" .... ;)

h-r:)

[SilsoeSid]

Wouldn't it be fair to say though, that the 105 would be able to do the backflip from the hoover?


"Quiet night for crime in the Midlands?" - Never a quiet night!
Unfortunately, as much as I would like to be, I can't be at work all the time!! :ok:

[Heliport]

Helicopter Aeros & Display Flying (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125386)

[Brilliant Stuff]

I have to agree the back flip of the Lynx is quite a sight to be seen. What are the maintenacne requirements for that particular Lynx when it is being operated like that?

Also it showed Mike Reyno of Vertical Magazine.

Now when will we have Ned of Heli-Ops on the TV screen's?

[dmanton300]

"Quiet night for crime in the Midlands?" - Never a quiet night!

Come and join us in West Dorset. Sometimes quiet, sometimes not, but a quiet 3AM can become real busy when there's only two of you covering a 400 square mile patch!

[SilsoeSid]

Come and join us in West Dorset. Maybe I will! ;)

I hope she's flying smooth enough for you now. :)

:ok:
SS

[Graviman]

KMS,

Just read:

"As an aside, I was looking through an engine book on turbines and found info on the convergent/divergent duct. It appears that there is a misprint explaining temp increases/decreases in relation to velocity and pressure."

Con-Di nozzles are a funny beast. The idea is to get the flow to mach 1 at the end of the convergent section. The flow in the divergent section is all supersonic, so subsonic pressure and temp laws no longer apply. Look up 1D Rayleigh flow if you want to understand further how a Con-Di can accelerate flow to multiple supersonic nos. Basically a continous shock wave means the expanding flow is also accelerating, while the pressure drops (don't recall what happens to temp).

Mart