Shocking check in.

[cosworth211]

As an aspiring wannabe, with a girlfriend who works for ServisAir I thought I'd share some of her experiences checking in at LGW.

In the last week she has had the following -

A passenger had 20kg excess baggage, and refused to pay it, she refused to check him in. He re-joined the queue and persuaded another female passenger flying alone with minimal baggage to split her allowance with him and check in together. My girlf still refused him and he started shouting. Cue supervisor, who instructed her to let him book in with her.

A passenger had his passport stolen. He turned up with a permit to enter France, which was photocopied. He was flying to Geneva. Again refused, he kicked up a fuss, cue supervisor, who instructed girlf to issue a boarding card.

A passenger turned up with 35kg's excess, which is illegal to handle. Again refused, again told by supervisor to put it through logging it at only 25kg.

These 3 events happened in her last 3 shifts. She has about 3-5 incidents a week. It seems the louder a passenger shouts, the more they'll get away with. How do these supervisors get away with it?? Surely load sheets are going down incorrect, and terrorists could be boarding with the inadequate ID being accepted.

This has been across a variety of airlines servisair handle, and the airline reps are worse then the supervisors.

It seems that security is slacking off as 9/11 dissapears into the past.

[apaddyinuk]

Tell her to CHIRP safery aspects of it and get her to confront the Supervisor telling this person that she wishes to speak to higher management regarding what she has been instructed to do. Also if it is a servisair supervisor advicing her to ignore these rules then she should also contact the airlines duty manager directly and advise him/her what is going on! It is all totally unacceptable!

But also keeping in mind that there are two sides to every story, I hope its a case of your gf is being polite throughout and not being blatently rude throughout leaving the supervisor no choice but to let the passenger away with it as a service recovery procedure as has been my experience with CircusAir before!

[cavortingcheetah]

:) Let me play The Devil's Advocate.

1. If two passengers say that they are travelling together and their combined baggage weight is within the limits does your girlifriend have the legal right to refuse to check them in? (No underweight would appear on the load sheet.)

2. A passenger had a permit to fly to France. I think you will find that Geneva airport is in French territory. Perhaps the ServisAir staff should know this?(Legal from the point of view of French Immigration Authorities)?

3. Is 35kgs excess baggage illegal to handle, provided, of course, that the passenger pays any excess charge, or does this weight limit not relate to the maximum weight of any ONE piece of baggage?(Perhaps naughty, but was the bag tagged as 'Heavy' 25kgs with 35kgs appearing on the load manifest.)

There's just a thought there perhaps-although, I hasten to add, I carry no flag for ServisAir.

I shall Bumble On now. ;)

[BRS_Dispatch]

A passenger had 20kg excess baggage, and refused to pay it, she refused to check him in. He re-joined the queue and persuaded another female passenger flying alone with minimal baggage to split her allowance with him and check in together. My girlf still refused him and he started shouting. Cue supervisor, who instructed her to let him book in with her

In this situation the second passenger would have failed two of the security questions.

1. Did you pack the bag yourself?
2. Are you fully aware of the contents of the bag?

No she did not pack the bag and no she was not aware of the contents of the bag. So this shouldn't have been allowed.

A passenger had his passport stolen. He turned up with a permit to enter France, which was photocopied. He was flying to Geneva. Again refused, he kicked up a fuss, cue supervisor, who instructed girlf to issue a boarding card.

If your girlfriend works for servisair she will more than likely be using CODECO on the checkin desk. If she has doubts with regards to entry requirements for a certain country tell her to type @TV/N(three letter code of an airport in the passengers home country)/D(three letter code of the destination airport) so for example the entry would look like this :- @TV/NBRS/DGVA. The other options are to consult TIM or call immigration direct.

A passenger turned up with 35kg's excess, which is illegal to handle. Again refused, again told by supervisor to put it through logging it at only 25kg.

It is not illegal to checkin a bag weighing over 32kgs. The loaders will refuse to lift a bag that weighs over 32kgs though.... But if a supervisor told her to change the weight then he/she should not be in a job. Just picture if he/she did the same with 10, 20 or 30 bags. Thats a lot of weight and on some aircraft that could cause some major problems.

[TJ747]

HI THERE,

As an Airline Representative myself, i do find the comments made a little worrying.

XS BAGGAGE,

A headache for everyone when someone refuses to pay for it, they do have options of what they can do with the baggage and our particular airline doesnt waiver anything. 2kgs xs, you pay or you dispose of the xs to bring you in the limits.
I allways support the check in agents but as they say. there is a side to every story and sometimes, you do just have to turn a blind eye, it may be an easy way out, but as an airline rep you have to think of the customer service side of things too and try to resolve the situation with maybe a mutual aggreement. For something as stupid as a couple of kgs xs, when you have 101 things going on around you, that is the least of your worries.

More often than not though, if i am called over to deal with xs and pax is angry about it, i will say to the agent in private and say, i will support you in what you are charging as we are not meant to waiver xs but what you do when im gone, is down to you, what i dont know, wont hurt. if we both feel that xs must be charged then i will fully support them and deal with the pax accordingly.

Bags over 32kg, its for health and safety reasons as too many loaders are off sick with bad backs because of heavy bags. if they moan about it, i say, well you try lifting bags over 32kg for 12hrs a day. soon shuts them up. I would nt want to lift heavy bags like that and i dont expect anyone else too either.

Passport issues,

If the airline aggrees to carry them, thats down to them but a spvr must not say yes just for the sake of it. The documents that the pax had may have actually been ok to travel which is why they were ok to go. But i would allways double check on anything your not sure of.If you dont feel happy with the reply from the spvr then maybe ask another experienced agt or spvr. If they say its ok but you still are not happy, then do what your spvr says but make a note of all the details, what was said, who said it andwhat you did etc and keep it safe just incase anything comes back on it.


There is alot of things that we do when we shouldnt but when your on your own and trying to get 800 people through in such a short space of time, we do sometimes turn a blind eye to it we do get into trouble if check is delayed or it is very slow with huge queues and BAA are doing their nut saying, sort it out... NOW. Which does happen on quite a few occasions.

Anyway, thats my bit

Cheers

TJ747

[cosworth211]

I appreciate the replies, however my girlf is not prone to exageration, and only tells me as she fears for my safety once I complete my CPL/IR if I get a job flying commercially.

As a business studies graduate I fully acknowledge the value of the customer and why company reps would bend over backwards to help them. However when you purchase a ticket you enter a contractual agreement with the airline to abide by their rules, which includes weight allowances and ID requirements. I currently fly an areobatic Robin 2160i and a PA28, and even at this level am very aware of the consequences of incorrect balance and weight calculations.

I am not trying to slander all reps and supervisors in the slightest, and appreciate how hard it is to please the customer.

However the impression I get is that the supervisors and reps have no comprehension of the potential disaster that looms when ID requirements are waived, or load sheets are massively underestimated.

At the end of the day, all the situations I mentioned and virtually all of the others my girlf has experienced, the customer has been in the wrong. I feel its time that safety in an airport is prioritised over service.

Not trying to rant too much, but it needs to be brought to someone seniors attention! (i am talking about the General manager of Gatwick)

Could any of the supervisors/reps comment on any pressures from above to avoid bad publicity over service??

Cheers guys :ok:

[TJ747]

At the end of the day mate, if we are not happy with the documents then they wont be carried untill they have the correct documents to travel.

in regards to weight and balance, one thing i cant understand and please, someone correct me if i am wrong, but isnt the baggage weight worked out on an everage of 13kg per bag when you check a flight in by piece's only and not by piece's and weight... so if every pax had a 20kg case, your load sheet would not be correct with an actual baggage weight.

not sure how its worked out to be honest or whether it effects the aircraft being worked out like the above, maybe a commercial pilot or despatcher could clarify.

many thx

tj747

[KiloMIke]

No TJ it depends on how the airline does their loadsheets. Some use the piece concept (eg. each bag weigh a certain amount) or they use the actual weight of baggage checked in.

As for people with wrong documents it will soon come back on the supervisor or rep when the Immigration officals at the point of entry refuse them.

As for checking in 35kgs bags . Its a BAA byelaw due to Health & Safety. If your gf is really worried about it she should have a quiet word with the loaders about thats going on. The lads will soon be up in arms and the supervisor will be red faced.

[surely not]

Jeez Cosworth211 you are not even a fully qualified pilot yet but you are starting to sound very high and mighty already so no doubt you'll be fine when you qualify!


(However the impression I get is that the supervisors and reps have no comprehension of the potential disaster that looms when ID requirements are waived, or load sheets are massively underestimated.)

You are a condescending twit if you really believe that statement!! Very few pilots have ever been on check-in yet there are a lot who pronounce words of wisdom on the subject as if they know everything, whilst clearly demonstrating they do not. Do you think that Reps and Suoervisors are just pulled off the street every morning?

2 people travelling together on a booking are fine to combine their baggage allowance, and allowing someone to 'use' a part of someone else's allowance has been standrd practice for many years as a way of resolving excess issues. There is no 'security' issue as both parties present their bags and answer the security questions for their own bags, it is simply a 'pooling' of the allowances.

Re travel documents, I would expect the Supervisor to have several years more experience than our GF, and maybe she recognised the travel document as acceptable; had dealt with the issue before and knew it was acceptable at the airport of arrival. In view of how much trouble the Immigration services can cause for an airline if they do not comply with the regs it is highly unlikely that a Supervisor would take risks.

Enough other people have commented on the bag weight issue, but what I cannot understand is why your GF had to refer the issue in the first place? If she cannot explain the regs to a passenger and persuade them to shed 3 kgs from their baggage to bring it in weight then she isn't doing a very competent job. I know other c-in agents who are quite capable of dealing with these situations on their own.

[Copenhagen]

There is no 'security' issue as both parties present their bags and answer the security questions for their own bags, it is simply a 'pooling' of the allowances.

This is still a security risk, as all that has to happen is that passenger 1 does a no show at the gate, and his/her baggage is pulled from the flight - The second passenger boards with passenger 1's baggage on her PNR which remains on the aircraft.
For this reason pooling of strangers baggage is usually frowned upon.

She should work for Ryanair - and probably be sacked if she doesnt collect excess baggage fees.

[surely not]

Fair point Copenhagen, it could happen and with my sore head this morning I overlooked it :ouch: :D

[cosworth211]

"my words of wisdom"

are not mine, if you read my posts I am purely relaying on stories from my girlfriend. Pick apart those situations as much as you like, the point is travelling as flight crew or travelling as a passenger, you need to feel secure. It seems the louder a passenger shouts, the more likely that they will get away with anything. I know there are a couple of extra security stages after check in, but thats not an excuse to be lax at the first one.

After all, we have all heard stories how people have actually boarded aircraft with the incorrect ID, and don't actually have the legal right to fly (on bail, no passport etc)

If my girlfriends actions were incorrect, she would not have been told "just let this one go through I'll put my name against it" by the supervisor. Everytime a reasonable size excess baggage is waived you are essentially cutting the company's profits (the company that pays your mortgage).

As I've said Im not trying to have a go at anyone, Im trying to understand why these incidents happen, whats the point of having a weight limit if they get waived all the time? You only get charged if you are a reasonable person, not a big gob?

Numerous times my girlfriend and her colleagues have commented that they are made to look stupid when they follow procedure, only to have what they have correctly done over ruled.

SurelyNot you are missing the point. She is competant, and explains why they have to either change the weights amongst the bags, or pay excess, but the usual comments are "this doesnt happen when I fly BA, I want to speak to a supervisor"

This is normally followed by "Im never using your airline again, this is ridiculous, Im going to write to the paper" (and occasionally they claim they are a journalist, if all claims made are believed to be true there would be millions of them!).

At this point supervisor turns up and bends over backwards to please this arrogant fool, to avoid a scene.

[FougaMagister]

CavortingCheetah - for your information, Geneva (Cointrin) Airport is in Swiss territory (the one "Swiss" airport that happens to stretch over the border is Basel/Bâle-Mulhouse (hence called Euroairport).

As for weight discrepancies, I know that in my handling company (NOT Servisair but a competitor), we have close to zero tolerance. Some PAX are let through check-in with a "refer to dispatcher" tag on their checked-in luggage, and if they still refuse to pay extra at the boarding gate, then it's fairly easy for me to offload them AND their baggage and amend the loadsheet accordingly. Personnaly, I have zero tolerance in that respect - I don't work for PAX services, so I don't have to answer to the PAX themselves, only to the client airline.

Also, it depends on each airline's specific procedures whether or not the baggage weight of two PAX can be combined. In other words, some will yield to argumentative PAX, some will not.

Mass & Balance and performance rules are not flexible; neither am I when it comes to that!

Cheers :cool:

[surely not]

Well unless things have changed, there is no reason why an agent cannot put the correct weight in the computer system and mark the coupon to match the excess charged. This was a concession won when computerised check-in first came in, and yes I am old enough to remember it, for just the reasons mentioned, it improved air safet by giving actual baggage weights as opposed to 'excess adjusted' weights.