View Full Version : KLM hiring?
Is KLM ever going to hire people off the street again in the next 5 years?
V1.
bluepilot
23rd May 2005, 00:49
All KLS guys at the mo, tho i dont think KLS can keep up with the pace of recruitment ! who knows what will happen after 2008 when we merge with Air France
Iloveholland
23rd May 2005, 04:42
"Merge with Air France"????????????????
You must be joking, right? How about "get swallowed by Air France".
Holland doesn't have a flag carrier anymore.
So, do you think their (KLM) old hiring practice is going to end in the near future?
V1.
buzz boy
23rd May 2005, 09:12
Swallowed by Air France?
YIPPEE! perhaps the VNV will get a taste of what they sowed when KLMuk was "swallowed" by KLM. Bottom of the list (if you move to Paris and you are suitable) if not an agreement that all Dutch will be out of the airline within 5 years, after all you are only custodians for French jobs :O
Piltdown Man
24th May 2005, 13:37
Our sources suggest that of the KLS graduates, only 1/3rd or so can be expect to get a job with KLM (as KoKo's) or KLC (on F70/100 or the Kindergarden fleet). So I recon that the answer is no, or "That ish not posshible, shur!" There are also a 150 or so waiting in the holding "meer".
pseulight
31st May 2005, 07:37
not to mention half the HV crew gagging to get in...;)
Holland
15th Jun 2005, 11:33
only 1/3rd or so can be expect to get a job with KLM
That's BS. 92% of the KLS graduated got hirred last year. A few of the rest 8% already got a job elsewhere. The Holding pool is down by 20 waiting to get a job at KLM. So it seems that the KLM are running out of KLS graduated... Who knows in the nearby future KLM will get pilots from all over the world.
spuis
15th Jun 2005, 15:16
Apart from the KLS ab-initio's KLM is now looking for ATPL rated, former KLS/NLS Airforce or marine fixed wing pilots preferrably with a Fokker 50 rating.
This is to fill a gap in the current F/O F50 division, and a lack of upgrade candidates within the company.
Gr.
Spuis
Piltdown Man
16th Jun 2005, 12:42
It's the lack of victims for the left seat of the F50 that KLC are trying to fix. These chaps/esses when installed in the left seat (after being employed for six months) will earn less than the majority of their colleagues sitting in the other seat, be lower on the seniority list yet still carry the can. Last ad appeared in that well known Dutch aviation chronicle "de Telegraaf" three days ago.
And throwing people out at 56yrs old does not help!!!:confused:
36050100
17th Jun 2005, 13:12
Crackin' idea mph - what a fantastic opportunity for experienced pilots to pass on their accumulated years of wisdom to new co-pilots. If the 56 years olds want to stay they would be ideal candidates for the F50 commands. The Company would benefit as well as they wouldn't have to spend 6 months in the RHS before being promoted.
I trust you're not suggesting that they should stay at the top of the seniority list raking in the top money....................:)
Piltdown Man
17th Jun 2005, 13:37
I don't think that staying beyond 55 is an option. Also, those that would did would almost certainly have to be from more "enlightened" fleets and not accept the way the F50 is flown.
36050100: That's exactly what I meant, Top of the seniority!!!
;)
What I really meant is, that they might not have such a problem with crewing A/C if, they let those 'experienced' guys fly a little longer? I don't want the same old forum on 56 yrs and beyond! It's just an opinion which I think could help this type of problem. cool:
One Step Beyond
17th Jun 2005, 23:36
The important thing to remember is that whatever happens, if KLM do it, it must be the correct way. Why? Because in my experience, the Dutch are the VERY BEST pilots in the world and KML is THE VERY BEST AIRLINE in the world and any other way is absolutely without doubt all wrong. If it's not Dutch, "its not poshible shur."
Piltdown Man
18th Jun 2005, 08:43
I think you were looking for the Dutch (saying in English) "If it aint Dutch, it aint much!"
His dudeness
19th Jun 2005, 09:16
Quote:
Who knows in the nearby future KLM will get pilots from all over the world.
hahahahaha....yes they will, if the candidate speaks and writes Dutch...
Nationalists ? we ? no shur !
seat 0A
27th Jun 2005, 20:51
Bluepilot!
Now You know that`s not really true, now don`t you?
Better ask the danair guys how they were treated.
Cuillin
28th Jun 2005, 13:13
Not quite sure what Dan-Air (I assume to do with the decisions made by BALPA in the early '90s) has to do with this conversation.
VNV's man at the IFALPA conference didn't get the position in IFALPA he was after mainly due to the delegates being provided with statements pointing out the handling by VNV of the ex KLMuk pilots. A small justice - eventually.
What goes around will come around, hopefully. Not sure if you are familiar with that expression in the Netherlands.
METO power
28th Jun 2005, 17:20
DUNLOPS UP – So did the F/O who refused to fly with a non Dutch speaking Captain ;-)
36050100
28th Jun 2005, 17:31
Would be fairer to send the non dutch speaker home and not reward the refusnik with a day off......................
So, are they going to hire non rated F50 pilots (non kls/nls) with 1500 + TT soon?
Liftdumper
12th Jul 2005, 06:49
As any application from a non KLS/NLS applicant was thrown in the bin immediately, I don't think so......
Or do you have other onfo, v1r8?
Ray D'Avecta
12th Jul 2005, 10:41
Liftdumper,...
As any application from a non KLS/NLS applicant was thrown in the bin immediately, I don't think so......
.........are you sure about this? :rolleyes:............sometimes, if you dont know the answer, its better to not say anything!
V1r8, I dont know the additional specific requirements of the F50 fleet, but your hours and experience sound like a direct match to the F50 Fleets stated objective of recruiting candidates who can be fast-tracked to command.
Send your application in,...what have you got to lose?.....at least you will get the answer from the horses mouth, and not from an 'unarmed liftdumper' :D (sorry, liftdumper :ok: )
I believe that a willingness to learn Dutch is more important than the ability to speak Dutch at recruitement, so do not forget to emphasise your willingness. ;)
Good luck............
Liftdumper
12th Jul 2005, 11:49
I agree, you should just go and try.
However, I sent in my application, (Dutch, ATPL, 2100TT) and as I did not have my education at the mentioned schools, I received a rejection in 2 hrs, via e-mail.
So.....
Ray D'Avecta
12th Jul 2005, 12:07
Sorry to hear about that. It might be worth persevering though,....check your PM.
flying_saucepan
12th Jul 2005, 12:47
howdy,
I called the recruitment department 2 weeks ago and I've been told that it's useless to send in an application unless you meet the requirements. I wanted to send my cv anyway so that I would be 'on file'. Response was that no cv's are being kept on file and it would be just a waste of time.....don't know what to make of that answer.Sending your cv will only cost you a stamp. However, the lady was quite specific about what will happen to it once it reaches the realms of the klm recruiters.
cheerio
Ray D'Avecta
12th Jul 2005, 13:10
Maybe worth trying to get in contact (Tel or Writting) to someone relevant on the F50 fleet. They might put a different spin on things, seeing as they are the ones driving the process..............contact KLM Cityhopper HR, not KLM.
Good luck
flying_saucepan
12th Jul 2005, 14:02
hey Ray, just send you a pm :ok:
Pointer
12th Jul 2005, 16:04
Historicaly i think that if you are Dutch and have significant experience; you don't have a better chance (most likely worse)than non Dutch speakers. Just see how many people got hired in the past who are non Dutch... compared to the many many dutch, flying around the world and europe, with other well respected(or atleast well established) airlines?
Like where did all these canadians come from? (yes canada i know) when were they hired? makes you wonder what deals are made btwn VNV and KLM? just ask a KLMuk pilot or better... Buzz??
But it seems that "What comes around, go's around" , it was in the NRC, a well informed dutch news paper that the AF profit would be "spiced up" by 660mln Euro from the pension fund from KLM.... ce la vie ?
Ha watch out for the dutch company's... oeps sorry.. french.
Knee Trembler
13th Jul 2005, 11:52
Hi,
I applied on 22 June and have so far heard nothing despite several emails to KLM HR.
I wondered if anyone else had any news apart from the rejection mentioned above.
(BTW, regarding the comment about contacting KLC HR direct - don't bother. I'm ex KLC myself and so that was my first stop. They told me that KLM HR are dealing with the recruitment and that they have no direct involvement.)
Any news appreciated.
KT
Holland
13th Jul 2005, 13:45
Over 100 applicationforms/CV's etc. are being send to KLM each day. They filter the forms.. If you have spelled the name of KLM wrong on your application or cv you will be rejected!
If you don't meet the requirement. Don't even try..
And: "I wanted to send my cv anyway so that I would be 'on file' " That ain't gonna happen. Sorry. It's a one time oppertunity to go to KLM and join the F50 fleet.
Grtz
LLuke
13th Jul 2005, 22:43
They are trying to keep the F50 division healthy, so they are looking on short term for:
-TRE/TRI ratings
-Management background (navy, air force, airliner)
-Technical background (test-pilot, engineers)
People who can become in one to three years chief-pilot, instructor, chief-instructor, technical pilot, captain, etc...
I left out the Fokker 50 rating because I know they will value it, since it will relax the training for the candidate, but they won't mind giving a full TQ either if they believe you can be a good captain/manager within the period they need you.
They also have requirements for age, education (university entrance level), etc, but deficiencies can be forgiven when they see a candidate who could be 'the one' which makes it for a lot of people a once-in-a-lifetime possibility to enter KLM from the free market.
And for the non-Dutch speakers. English is absolutely mandatory (Avoid spelling/grammar/style mistakes in your application, make it the perfect letter!!) Ofcourse you must be *willing to learn* Dutch...this sounds tough, but spoken conversation is sufficient. You won't need a NT2 diploma or anything remotely difficult.
I don't believe the stories of Dutch captains sending co-pilots home because they don't speak Dutch. There have *always* been co-pilots and captains who didn't speak Dutch. And it is difficult to believe that the (Finnish) chief-pilot would appreciate this behaviour. Then again things may have changed the passed 3 years???
Ray,
I'll give it a shot.
re speaking Dutch:
Dit goed genoeg? ;)
Ya'll have a great day
V1.
METO power
16th Jul 2005, 10:08
I don't believe the stories of Dutch captains sending co-pilots home because they don't speak Dutch. There have *always* been co-pilots and captains who didn't speak Dutch. And it is difficult to believe that the (Finnish) chief-pilot would appreciate this behaviour. Then again things may have changed the passed 3 years???
You better believe it !
I know it firsthand from a australien co-pilot (who now is retired) and a french captain and his co-pilot who refused to fly with him. And yes, it’s true, no consequences from the office for neither of them.
I have a feeling that they don’t want to hire anybody from the outside, that’s why they come up with these ridicules requirements. Like that they can show the VNV that they couldn’t find any qualified pilots and therefore they have to assign Capt.’s for the F50 from the bottom of the seniority list.
P-T-Gamekeeper
16th Jul 2005, 20:36
So are KLM hiring non-Dutch pilots?
Their website only has vacancies in Dutch. It will be quite hard to fill in, even if you are "willing to learn Dutch".
Will they accept a CV, or is it online only?
Cheers in hope, not expectation!
slam_dunk
16th Jul 2005, 23:27
sorry,
-You have to be fluent in Dutch and English to apply (see ad: http://hostedpictures.com/uploads/53b74de359.jpg)
- job application apparently ended on june 28.
LLuke
18th Jul 2005, 08:54
You better believe it !
I know it firsthand from a australien co-pilot (who now is retired) and a french captain and his co-pilot who refused to fly with him. And yes, it’s true, no consequences from the office for neither of them.
Hmm, I think I know the story but that was *not* with KLM Cityhopper but on the B73 with KLM. There 's more to this story *), but it would be inappropriate to post it here. I only know one French captain inside KLM and he prefers to speak English...
added:
*) For the sake of completeness, the poor co-pilot is not to blame for what happened.
MadMurdoch
22nd Jul 2005, 17:32
Hello all,
I have send my application on the closing date on the 28th of June. I am a so called 'free market' pilot and haven't done the KLS or NLS. With TT of 3500 (1000 jet and 2200 TP) all flown with foreign companies. I got a standard e-mail back on the 15th this month that I 'might be interesting' and kept on-file. They first start with other, more suitable, candidates. They promise an answer in the coming months.
Honestly, i don't see it happening for me but who knows.....
Greetz
MM
Yes, there are several americans/canadians/ausies working for KLM.