BA 767 Replacement

[scotron11]

Rod Eddington, commenting to ATW, said that BA was looking at the 787 and A350 as replacement aircraft for the 767.

If BA did go with Boeing, and given that the plane won't even fly until 2008, when would BA actually have to place an order to guarantee an entry into service date?

Appreciate it.


regards

[Rollingthunder]

Ok, showing my age here but I was around for implemtation of B767-300 ERs with my group. Over the years I found them to be strong, comfortable, reliable aircraft. Only thing stronger was the DC10-30 and 747.

Are they really past their T/X. They're all mostly paid for with the legacy carriers. Are mtce costs sufficiently high to justify replacement for exactly what benefits?

I don't see similar new aircraft replacing their role to a significant advantage. OK, B787 has longer range - is that enough to justify a replacement cost?

[scotron11]

I guess my question is more of at which point does an airline order replacement aircraft for a particular type? Being that the 767s have an average age of 12yrs, and the 787 will not even fly until 2008, if they do decide that the 787 is the one for them, when would they place an order to guarantee an EIS when they decide to stand down their 767s?

Even if they ordered today, and with the 787 order book standing at between 200-300 aircraft, the earliest would probably be 2011-2012, no? And by then, of course, the 767s will be closer to 20yrs old!

regards

[HZ123]

In view of the present finances 20 yr span looks to be acceptable and I feal sure that which ever maker offers the best deal will be the a/c of choice. There has even been suggestions that we could eventually at BA be an all Airbus fleet with the exception of the 777 as commonality of fleet would offer costs savings and that will be a major concern over the next 10 years.

[Human Factor]

Presumably the intention is to have the A350 on a dual rating with the A320, as carriers already do with the A330. Equally, the intention is for the 777 and 787 to be a dual rating. In which case, expect BA to go for whoever offers it the best deal at the time

The big question, will BA order the A380? If it does, this may smooth a path towards the A350....

[part69]

From ATW

In terms of its fleet, Eddington said BA's near-term focus is looking for a 767 replacement. "However, we are just putting flat beds in our 767s and they will be in service for another five years, while the 747-400s will be in service for another ten," he said. He suggested that BA's 767 replacements could even be more 777s rather than 787s or A350s. "It could be dash 300ERs, which is a superb 747-400 replacement, and more dash 200s and even the dash 200LR."


There is also a mention of 777s!

[ShotOne]

No doubt whatever they choose it'll be made in Seattle in accordance with British Airways' "Buy British Last" policy

[Rainboe]

That's a stupid thing to say! Would you prefer BA had a 'buy European First' policy? An airline buys what it thinks suits it best and what it can afford, just as you buy whatever car you chose. Do you drive foreign? I do. 2 highly expensive German automobiles, and lovely they are too. I think the UK has moved on a bit from the 70s 'I'm backing Britain campaign'. Got us buying crap Brit cars instead of the best. Just let BA buy whatever it gets the best deal on just as you buy whatever is best value for you!

[L337]

ShotOne:

No doubt whatever they choose it'll be made in Seattle in accordance with British Airways' "Buy British Last" policy

Today's nonsense post.

How do you explain the huge fleet of A319, A320, and A321s?

66 I believe in total.

L337

[hibypassratio]

Airbus may be a European, indeed a partially British company, but components for the Airbus are made globally, even the US and here in Canada. The same can be said for Boeing products or our domestic Bombardier aircraft. These are to a large extent global companies now.

[pax britanica]

BA are not exactly known for a 'young fleet' policy unless they are replacing something completely uncompetitive. The 74 Clasics used on the JFK run in their last years were literally falling to pieces in their last days and must have ben about 27 years old. As Mr E has said the 744s are around for along time to come.

I would have throught that having a decent sized triple 7 fleet there was a lot to be said for a mix of Standard 777s (RR engined) LR ones and 300 s to replace the older 744s.

Also gives BA a nice middle of the road position with suppliers SH=Airbus 320 series which vastly superior from Pax view than Boeings. LH = Boeings mostly 777, which while not my fave plane to look at (hardly matters does it) seems to do the job pretty well.

Looks to me like BA have got a good fleet strategy -finally- and have the option of adding 'debugged' 787s or 380s maybe around 2010 without any short term risk

[GrazingIncidence]

Nobody's mentioned 747 Advanced yet. Sounds like it might be a better fit for BA in a few years time than the A380: fits between 744 and A380, 8k nm range, minimum risk. Seems to be a good idea out of Seattle/Everett

[ETOPS773]

A350 would seem a better fit.Unlike the 777-200LR / -300ER you have a choice of engines.
A350-900 comes with GENX or RR Trent engines being developed for the 787,except they are not bleedless,and its family is being groomed as an A300/A343/767/777-200A replacement.

I hear the sales of A350 are not what they were hoping,so perhaps BA will get a good deal? A350 EIS is around 2010 when the 767s are due to be phased out,and the production slots are there for the taking.

I would place money on the A350 :ok:

[Gaza]

Is it just me or does anyone else think this thread would be more appropriate at kiddiestalkingaboutairliners.net? :* :}

[Rainboe]

Couldn't agree more! Why does a 767 replacement (which isn't needed for the foreseeable future anyway) incite such comment, criticism, and suggestions to the BA buying department how to do their job better?

[Human Factor]

Why does a 767 replacement (which isn't needed for the foreseeable future anyway) incite such comment, criticism, and suggestions to the BA buying department how to do their job better?

It's considered SOP on PPrune to criticise BA at every possible opportunity.

[MarkD]

if posts weren't telling other people their business what else would there be to talk about on PPRuNe?

[False Capture]

What about the rumour that BA are to make an announcement at the Paris 2005 Airshow regarding the B767 replacement?

ETOPS773 said: "A350 EIS is around 2010 when the 767s are due to be phased out". This would also tie-in with the opening of T5.:ok:

[The Greaser]

I dont quite know how 2010 ties in with the opening of T5.

[Magoodotcom]

Airboos marketing head Gerard Blanc told us last Thursday that they will be announcing "triple digit" orders for the A350 at Paris (BA, QF, Emirates?), as well as additional A380 orders (Cathay?)

The A350 briefings we received in Toolooze last week were certainly very impressive numbers, and if correct, may see a sharp decline in 777-200ER orders in future.

Magoo

[Hotel Mode]

Eddingtons comments about the 777-300 were at a time of low loads too, we are now flying very full 747's around. The 747 advanced or 380 is now most likely 747 replacement i would imagine

[scotron11]

I am not in anyway bashing or questioning BA's fleet planning department in any way. My question was mainly when does an airline have to order aircraft to guarantee an EIS, that is all.

As Eddington has stated, BA are focusing on a 767 replacement and that they will be around for another 5 years. Production starts on the 787 in 2006, with orders/options for 237. So, if they do go for the 787, when would they have to actually order the airframe to guarantee delivery for when the 767 is actually withdrawn.

And the reason I posted this question on this forum was because I thought some folk on this site would have an answer. It certainly wasn't to start a debate on will they or won't they go for this or that.

regards

[apaddyinuk]

Seriously however....when was the last time official commentry came out of BA regarding a change of fleet???

[MarkD]

paddy

check out BA's Investor Relations website. Last presentation was March I think?

[flyer55]

Who knows with BA it changes its mind every day, it could be going after the Dreamliner (7E7)

[Globaliser]

flyer55: Who knows with BA it changes its mind every day, it could be going after the Dreamliner (7E7) Which is now the 787.

Myself, I'd be surprised if the 787 does not feature in BA's fleet at some stage in the future. But with the money now being put into the 767 cabins, following the failure of the tanker bid, I think it might be a few years off yet.

[Barber's Pole Bob]

I hear whispers that GB are evaluating the A350 for future expansion as they go further and further away from Europe.

[Sonic Cruiser]

I am sure thart if BA wanted the 787 they wouldn't have to wait for 200 odd orders before they get theirs.

BA would have the power with Boeing to jump the queue I'm sure so they could have planes by 2010

[panda-k-bear]

2 little corrections to things said in here - the A350 is offered with GEnx engines so far - at least to my outfit. We have NOT been offered a Trent 1000 powered version, suggesting GEnx is the only option (at least up to now).

And whoever said Blanc was head of Airbus marketing was making it up. Blanc's in charge of their program department, not their marketing organisation. Believe that title lies to an American chappie (which is impressive considering the French dislike for Americans at the moment....).

As fror the main question - the 777-200LR and -300ER are only available with GE90s - something which has stung BA before. Now hopefully the -115B is a well sorted engine by now (it had big trouble at EIS with Air France) and I don't really see where the -200LR would fit into the network. The -300ER, though, could well be a good fit and seems to be a very good airplane these days (now the CG issue is sorted out a bit better).

[flyer55]

Cant see GB going for the A350 , maybe go after the 330

[Jet A1]

But I can't see the Nigels allowing GB to operate a wide-body . More of the green-eyed monster mentality !! :yuk: