Headsets

[WhoNeedsRunways]

Guys :


Anyone got recommendations, prioritised on a) noise reduction, b) comfort, c) price and d) any other important factor, for headsets?

And how about ANR headsets - are they really that good, and do manufacturers make them for helicopters ?

The current headsets I've got are from my f/w days and showing their age.

[fastback]

WNR

I`ve tried a few ANR headsets recently. I`ve found the best to be "Pilot" ANR headsets the batteries are self contained in the sets and only need to be recharged after about 30 hours(according to the manufacturer)

The lead is detachable so its quite easy to get the appropriate helicopter leads. You will probably need two leads (one UK Nato & one US Nato) for the R22 & 206.
Also make sure you get the metal band accessory that aerobatic pilots use, it gives a lot tighter fit.

Shop around for the best price.

[This message has been edited by fastback (edited 15 July 2000).]

[piston broke]

WNR, I've flown for years with a standard black Peltor helo set, very tough though they may not look it, noise attenuation is excellent, light weight and very comfortable, particularly if used with the earpad protectors which are absorbant stick-on paper, and the headband pad. They are VASTLY superior to the David Clark which are horribly heavy and uncomfortable.

I did own a Pilot which was a copy of the Peltor and it was so cheap and nasty I threw it after a month.

Not tried noise cancelling myself, found the Peltor so good I didnt want the hassle and considerable expense of batteries. After 10 yrs/3000hrs in light turbine helos I still have no appreciable loss on the audiogran trace which I think says it all.

Bon chance!

[Davie Emsee]

I know of someone who tried the Bose ANR headset for helicopters and found them to be no better than normal headsets at a huge cost.

[fastback]

I agree with Piston Broke, the normal Pilot headsets are totally useless, however the ANR 17 -79 are very good.

They are around the £350 mark which seems alot of money, but having spoken to afew people that on the edge of the CAA limits regarding hearing loss, if they help in any way it`s worth it.

Peltor make a very good headset. I have owned a set for the last 5 years and they have been very reliable. They also had ANR headsets which they have taken of the market.

I`m afraid the Peltors have been left at home once I`d tried the Pilot ANR`s. (with the metal headband)

[whatsarunway]

i have a set of dave clarke h10-13 and the gel seals make them much more comfortable than the standard peltori fly the 22 44 and the ec120 and we have just put the boose anr in the 44 and it is amazing .. everyone must try it
watch though , make sure the low rrpm horn is rigged through the ics because some arent and the anr will cut the horn out!!

have boose anr on the 120 also very good for the long haul , if you do 8 hours a day like i do they are well worth the money. no headaches after a long day i think the kit has to be installed into the helicopters themselves --- each one---- try to convince the boss!!

at least try the anr before you buy any headset!

[piston broke]

I think wossarunaway makes his point succinctly;
if it's your headset that's made you incomprehensible then get another one, else try spelling, syntax and grammar - we might stand a chance of understanding you!

David Clarke gel seals leak and run down your neck , and the headsets themselves are uncomfortable overweight shyte anyway, as most of us know.

I watched the Austrian Grand Prix today (didn't Scum-Hacker do well???)and most teams pit crew seemed to be using Peltors.
I rest my case.

[This message has been edited by piston broke (edited 17 July 2000).]

[emitchel]

I wanted the most effective noise cnacelling headset about - and I imagined the new BOSE X-Headset might be the go. I was pretty happy with it until another pilot let me try his David Clark H10-56X.
The David Clark is heavier and bulkier, but is superior in noise attenuation. Also, when the batteries fail - the David Clark is a very effective passive headset. The BOSE sounds terrible - let me tell you - you scramble to get new batteries in ASAP!!! SO, for value for money AND better attenuation - go for the David Clark. I was in Yemen and I couldn't get the BOSE back to the factory or I would have exercised the 30 day moneyback guarantee... also - the battery only lasts half of the published time span - about 10 hours.
Cheers,
Ed

[whatsarunway]

was piston broke slagging me??
am i slow?? or just hearing impaired from faulty headsets??

[Harpooner]

I have got Lightspeed ANR's, they are 1/2 the price of D.C's and very comfortable. The ANR 20k has been reviewed by most of the US press with top results. They are wider than most ANR's but very light and comfortable. Because they are now avail in the UK try them at a shop first. (then buy them in the states.)

[Floater]

I've tried lots of headsets over the last ten years, including ANR ones. The ANR I use now is the David Clark, I think it's the H10-56, it's the chunkier of the two basic types they have, and love it. I had Bose for a while, but although they were the most comfortable, and funky looking, they were not suited to the type of flying I do which is mainly bush work and all the travelling. David Clarks can take a bashing. Most of all, the DCs have great passive noise attenuation, so if you pop out of your ship to fuel it up or load pax and disconnect from the battery pack, you still get 27db of noise attenuation, that's more then most regular headsets. With some of the other headsets, while you're connected you're OK, but when you disconnect, or the battery juice runs out, things become real loud real quick. I also had a Peltor regular headset, which I liked for personal use, but I would recommend DCs for flight schools where others will use them and not look after them quite that well. Another point, after forking out for my ANR DC, a while later I got a job flying 212s which had the military ICS system, different impedence or whatever, and regular civy headsets didn't work. Usually it's just a matter of changing the mic, but in R22 and 206 you'll be OK, just bear that in mind when you go off somewhere to fly another type. Finally, what a lot of pilots do and swear by it, is just find some nice comfy ear plugs and wear them with the headset, and save lotso dosh and lotso hassle with battery packs and all that.

[The Mistress]

WhoNeedsRunways

Have you looked at www.pilottoys.com (http://www.pilottoys.com) - they have a whole section on headsets with techie descriptions - might find something you like there.

[ravenx]

I've got a peltor headset that I use when flying fixed wing. Of course this doesn't fit in an R22 because the R22 has one jack not two. I ordered a converter kit from Transair to find it only fits the Jetranger connections. I've asked around most aviation places and no-one seems to be able to supply the correct one. Anyone know where I can get one from.

[This message has been edited by ravenx (edited 11 June 2001).]

[RW-1]

www.flightsuits.com (http://www.flightsuits.com)

Everything you need is there from clothing to electronics.

------------------
Marc

[Vfrpilotpb]

Rx,
I am nearly certain that you can obtain from Transair, a combo Nato which will slpit apart and fit with one the B206 and the other the R22, I have done this but my NR headset is Pilot, and they helped me to sort it out, the diff is the R22 needs a Silver Nato plug and the JR I use has a Gold Nato.
Hope you find the right one.
regards
PRB :)

[ravenx]

VFRPilotPB - I did try them and that's where the original one came from but after several phones calls back to them after realising it didn't fit they just said sorry can't help

[ravenx]

RW-1 - I did try www.flightsuits (http://www.flightsuits) but for some reason all of their email addresses bounced

[muffin]

The problem is that Pilot's bronze coloured adaptors are wired incorrectly. We sell them, and we have to rewire every one to make them work. The functions of the pins on the UK (bronze) and the US (silver) are different. E mail me separately and I can either tell you how to rewire the adaptor or get it done for you.

For those that are interested, let me explain further.

GA aircraft use a double plug arrangement as standard - one for mike and PTT and the other for the received audio.
Helicopters have two standards - one US NATO with a silver plug and one UK NATO with a bronze coloured plug.
The silver and bronze plugs are slightly dimensionally different and will not work when you attempt to mate them
even though they appear to be the same at first inspection.

Most Jet Rangers in the UK have been rewired to use the UK bronze connectors, but most Robinsons still have the US silver
wiring. However, this is not always the case. Best thing is to look at the plug - if it is bronze it is UK, silver it is US.
Never fear, inter series adaptor cables are available between all of these standards.

The problem here is that the main source of these adaptors is Pilot Communications who supply most of the UK pilot shops. Unfortunately their
factory in Korea got the wiring wrong for the bronze plug. They assumed it was the same as the silver US plug. It isn't!
As a consequence all their products fitted with bronze helicopter plugs will not work until they have been rewired. Their
factory are now aware of the problem but there is a lot of product out there on dealers shelves which is still wired to the original incorrect
format.

Sorry to bore you, but it took me a long time to work out the cause of this problem and the above may save somebody else the same frustration!


[This message has been edited by muffin (edited 12 June 2001).]

[ravenx]

No that wasn't boring. It's useful to know that if I do get an adapter from somewhere I'll have a course of action if it doesn't work immediately. Can you send the details of the wiring and then I'll be able to check

Thanks

[verticalflight]

I’m going to buy an ANC headset in the next couple of weeks. However I’m still considering two options:

- Bose Aviation Headset X

- David Clark H10-76XL (this is the low impedance model, since the aircraft I fly has a low impedance intercom system)

Any comments, specially in terms of noise attenuation, comfort and customer service in the UK?

[Pac Rotors]

I got to use the Bose 10 in Hawaii last week with a couple of operators and found them great. The earcups on them fit well, some sort of gel inserts there, and made a very distinctive difference. Most tour operators in Hawaii seem to be using them.

Cant comment on the David Clarks since havent tried them.

Pac Rotors

[pitchlink]

Tried the Bose ANR headset in an S76 a few months ago. On the whole found them quite good and very comfortable, the one problem seemed to be that they did not get rid of the whining gearbox noise. In fact, that was the only noise left to listen to, which after a while drove you mad!!! Most people who used the headset found more or less the same thing. My advice would be to see if you can get the set on trial before you actually buy it as it is a lot of £££ to shell out if it is not going to do the job you hoped.
If the company you are purchasing from are a bit reluctant, tell them you are from a large company and the trial may result in many orders. It worked for us!!!

[Vfrpilotpb]

Hi VF,

"Pilot" make a good set too cost me about £280 and are very light, but need charging up daily , however there was a report of some sort of accident in a Heli caused by the wearing of NC headsets, but cannot find the thread.
My Regards :)

[The Nr Fairy]

Vfr :

This, I think, is the one :
http://www.aaib.detr.gov.uk/bulletin/mar01/gbyhe.htm

[tigerpic]

first of all, i thought they were named anr for reduction and not cancellation (although a 'c' in the abbr. would have been fantastic). be that as it may, i have one thing to say about the bose vs david-clark: 12 oz! :D it is fantastic. try wearing a d.c. headset for eight hours straight. :mad: the downdraft with the bose x is changing the batteries every fourth-fifth hour.

cheers
tigerpic

[verticalflight]

Thanks for the answers I've got so far.

A few questions for tigerpic:

Bose claims that the 9volt battery last 20 hours. You said 4 to 5 hours. Why is that? Do you use rechargable batteries?

What do you think about the gearbox noise that pitchlink mentioned?

Are you flying turbine or piston?

Personally I'm flying the Super Puma, so I'm concerned about finding the same problems the Bose X has on the S76.

More comments please. They are very welcome :)

[Rotorbike]

If you have a headset that you are really happy with then you may consider fitting an ANR kit into it.
www.headsetsinc.com (http://www.headsetsinc.com) make kits for most models, that can be fitted yourself in a few hours. Cost is under US$200.

Myself I have been using a Bose II for over 3 years and find the odd time I fly with my old standard David Clark painful.

Problems none, but new gel seals required every 6 months. Bought it with rechargable and non rechargable battery pack but believe that option isn't available on the Bose X.

[Vfrpilotpb]

NF Hi,

Yes that was the thread, thank you.
My Regards ;)

[md 600 driver]

i have bose in my 600. i find them comfortable they work well with my ship. also used them in a enstrom480
you can get a power injector kit so you dont need a battery pack this saves clutter in the cabin and charging battery packs incedentley [sorry cant spell] they work as normal when battery is flat regards steve.,

[CTD]

Sennheiser makes a nice kit as well, and the ANR part is second to none. I can't give you specifics about the headset itself, because I always wear a helmet. Having said that, the conversion kit they offer for the SPH5 helmet is magic, and has the same electronics as the headset. Worth a look.

[tigerpic]

vertical flight:

i dunno why they claim 20 hours, maybe they changed the original battery pack that was one 9v battery to the old one that had plenty of aa batteries. no, i don't use re-chargeables, because everything is an efford - think about buying it, finding the place where to buy it, getting into your car, driving to the place, etc.

to be honest with you, i haven't noticed any special annoying noise from the gearbox. there are a lot of annoying noises from a helicopter and this is choosing between two lesser evils. i fly a jetranger, but i've used the headset in r22, enstrom, longranger, and a109. the bose is still good!

everything about a headset is stressing, the pressure, the noise, the weight. finding the headset with the least amount of each is the key. what type of operation do you do? if you only fly a couple of hours a day, maybe a d.c. is good for you (money-wise), but if you are pushing 5-8 hours/day, i would suggest testing the bose.

bose's warranty also works perfectly (two years i think)! i sent the head with fedex from florida after the mic stopped working. they fixed the mic, plus changed a few other things, returning the headset within ten days. how's that for customer support!

[PPRuNe Towers]

There might be some early adopters out there who want to check out a non headset/ non ANR solution.

17 years ago I was involved in trials of moulded earpeices with bone conductive mics for special forces. My part was checking out use and effectiveness for free fall operations.

I noticed this site: www.pantherelectronics.com (http://www.pantherelectronics.com)

A claimed 46dB reduction once custom earpieces replace the ones they arrive with may be too quiet for safety but certainly seems an avenue worth checking out. The universal earpieces are rated with a 31dB reduction and they're priced at $464.

I can say from experience that the bone conductive mics work incredibly well in high noise situations.

Rob Lloyd

[Thomas coupling]

Prune Towers, we tried ear plugs(specially moulded to that individual) and they worked quite well, however, they were a problem around the helipad when working outside the running helo what's more: we kept 'misplacing' the bloody things because of their size!!!

We now use Active Noise Reduction headsets(ANR) set inside the headphones. Headset Services @ Shoreham designed them for us.
We looked into the research that DERA had compiled over many ears(sic).
Basically there isn't anything available on the commercial helo market at the mo' that will reduce/cancel low frequency sound[MGB, certain engine frequencies, etc]. The best models on the market only cater for high frequency noise such as the turbine whines etc and it is these that apparently cause damage to the inner ear and not so much the low freq.
Be very wary of an 'off the shelf' model because they may have been designed to capture a very narrow spectrun of high freq noise found in anything from motorbikes to model a/c!!! These are not tailored to the helo market per se.
Usual saying: you gets what yer pay for.... :cool:

[Ally1987]

Can anyone rec. a good ANR headset for rotary? I need one with a non-Nato plug (three insulating stripes rather than four?) and a UK source for it, preferably. I'll have to use batteries.
TIA.

[Gaseous]

I Use a Pilot 17-79 ANR and when you press the button the engine noise melts away. It has dual jacks and I use an adaptor to give me US and UK Nato plugs. It's comfortable too.

[TipCap]

I'm in discussion with David Clark at the moment ref ANR headset.

If I get any useful info I will post.

BTW Gaseous I think yr headset is fine for piston but not for turbines.

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: TipCap ]

[ 21 November 2001: Message edited by: TipCap ]

[Gaseous]

You may well be right. I only fly a Robinson.

[Kyrilian]

I'm also interested. I've been using a non-ANR David Clark and it simply clamps too much for my preference. I'm thinking of getting the Bose as I will have the opportunity to get it at a discount for a little longer. What do others think of it in terms of both piston (now) and turbine (future, hopefully) performance?

[Thomas coupling]

Call up ANR using the search facility this has been discussed in detail before. ;)

[Kyrilian]

Thanks TC! Somehow I didn't think of that. I remember some old threads but didn't recall them mentioning differences between turbine and piston (and I didn't feel like clicking back and trying to find it--should have realized there is a SEARCH function!) Duh :D

[md 600 driver]

i use the bose i find them to work well in a turbine not tried them in piston

the bose x [the slim ones ] are more comfortable than the original bose headsets

[Heliport]

I use Bose. Expensive but good.
I've not tried them in piston helis, but can't see why there'd be a problem - except for not being able to hear the engine!

Heliport

[muffin]

I was looking at a device last week that may be ideal for this application. It is a lightweight headset originally designed for rapid intervention military and police teams,and the sound comes from a pair of slim flat transducers that fit against the bones in front of your ears. It is designed to be worn under a helmet, and it is fully waterproof and ruggedised. You hear the sound through bone conduction - the audio quality is excellent. Normally the user wants to hear what is going on around them, but for a high noise application such as a helicopter,you can just wear simple earplugs of whatever attenuation factor you desire to keep the background noise out The end result is far lighter and more comfortable than a full noise cancelling headset. The mic is a normal type on a goose neck in front of your mouth.

This device is not available for the aviation market yet, but it would not be too difficult to make one if the demand was there. It is also considerably cheaper than the top end ANR units made for the aviation market.

Would anybody be interested in being a guinea pig if I was to develop this product for helicopter use?

[COLLECTIVE FRICTION]

muffin,
The unit I'm on is doing a trial with an ANR helmet at the moment.I'd be very interested in your system if you were able to develope it.How can I get in touch with you ?

[Nomads]

Hi folks,
I use a CFG Gallet helmet with a david clark H 60 build into it and I would not do without it anymore. :)

[heedm]

Not active noise reduction, but this seems to be a promising product. Communication & Ear Protection, Inc. (http://www.cep-usa.com/index.htm)

I have no affiliation to the company. I learned about this at an Aviation Life Support Equipment conference and am trying to get some at my unit.

[Dick Mitten]

I'm thinking of getting an ANR upgrade for my Gentex SPH5 helmet. Anyone have comments or suggestions? Do ANR systems live up to the advertising hype? Do you have it, like it; why?

Anyone have a good spot to put the power supply? I'm not that keen on having it lose in the cockpit, tethered to me by the cable. With the gusty winds we've been having lately (and my stellar flying skills...) it'd be a lethal object whipping around the cabin smacking my customers!

Thanks in advance for your comments!

[GLSNightPilot]

Headsets, Inc in Amarillo, TX makes a good kit. The power supply is a box, which you can clip to anything - shoulder strap, seatbelt, or anywhere you want. I haven't used it in a helmet, but it's a drop-in for David Clark headsets, after you drill a hole in 1 dome for the power cord. http://www.headsetsinc.com/ Model M-03 is claimed to fit all military helmets.

[Dick Mitten]

Thanks Stan. Looks like Gentex doesn't do their own ANR now anyways. They're sending helments out to Headsets Inc.

Still looking for comments on performance, please!

And THANK YOU!!!

[CyclicRick]

I've got a David Clark H 56 ANR. Great in fixed wing pistons/turbines and anything with more than three blades (AS 350 etc) But it's bloody awful in two bladed machines (Bell 205/206), you get a funny whooping sound in your ears much like pressure changes so I switch it off.
I know what you mean about the battery box hanging on the cable but I fly so many different machines it was the only option for me...thats life!

[GLSNightPilot]

The HI kit worked well in a DC headset, but I couldn't stay with it. My ears are too big & stick out too much, so there wasn't enough room in the domes for them, & the pressure caused pain very soon. I can't use any production headset, I have to make my own. However, I don't recall having that trouble with the SPH5 oh those many years ago, I think there is more room inside the domes. Every ANR I've tried has the same problem.

The upside of the HI kit is that it's reasonably priced, & having to give it up didn't kill me financially. I am using the speakers from the kit, & the mikes can be reused for something, maybe.

Again, the noise cancelling worked well, flying in a 412 at the time.

[verticalflight]

Related to headsets rather than helmets, but you can find some useful information:

www.verticalflight.fsnet.co.uk

[Shawn Coyle]

I have just tried the CEP system - it uses in-the-ear speakers like most Walkmen, but with foam inserts to really seal the ear. Absolutely amazing and to these tired ears it sounded twice as good as any other noise cancelling headset I've tried.
details from www.cep-usa.com
Cheaper than anything else as well.
Shawn

[CTD]

Dick,

I use a Sennheiser ANR in my Gentex SPH-5 and it works great. Because it's not aircraft-installed, I can carry it from ship to ship.

I was involved in some unofficial trials for it when I worked at Bell - we were concerned that it would interfere with hearing those 'odd' sounds that pilots use to figure out the world is about to go pear-shaped. It did not. As a matter of fact, it made any 'abnormal' noise stand out.

Some spark farmers wired up a power cable for me that plugs into the ship's Aux Power Cannon plug, which saves me carrying around batteries and such.

Awesome system, and I'd highly recommend it.

[Dick Mitten]

Thanks all for yer feedback & suggestions. I've decided to go for the Headsets Inc. ANR kit. Once I've installed it and flown a few days I'll post a review.

Shaun: The CEP looks really interesting, but too new for me. My cautious side requires staying with something better established, even if more expensive...

[HeliMark]

I have been using the CEP for about a year now. It is a great system. Flying with the doors off has never been quieter.

I went from the volume on the radio's being almost full on, flying with the doors off (using a SPH-5 helmet), to dang near off. And so far I have not had any problems with the system. My regular partner had one problem with the plug in his helmet that took less then five minutes to fix.

[Dick Mitten]

Just got the ANR kit from Headsets Inc and installed it into the trusty Gentex. (Note: I'm a bit of a techy, and the installation wasn't as easy as they'd suggested. Perhaps some missing parts...)

Holy ****, what a difference!! The continual rumble/whine is replaced with a gentle hiss. The Comm volumes are down by 65%, the intercom is turned down to the bottom stop. Comm traffic is clearer and much easier to understand. Totally worthy piece of kit, I'd say.

Sorry to sound like an advert! Just thought I'd follow up on a post of a few months ago where I asked for feedback on ANR...

Cheers,

[BlenderPilot]

How long does the battery last? Which heli are you flying, I am thinking of buying this product but I want to know if it will work well in the 206, 212

Thanks

[Aladdinsane]

I have one fitted to a H10-36 David Clark and it is worth every cent. I have used it in 206's, H500's and others with excellent reduction.

The Battery issue is an interesting one. A quality Duracell, Energizer or equivalent lasts about 25-30 flight hours. I have also used rechargeables but they only give around 5 hours life but worse is that they give no warning of going flat. I usually carry a spare in my pocket anyway, once you have ENR you cant stand the noise when the battery goes U/S.

Hope this helps

[Red Wine]

Bought a Peltor ANR once.........great for 2 minutes.....turn your head and the plug and cord that is attached to the bottom of one ear cup dislodges as it rubs against the top of your lifejacket.....great product development !!!!.... standing alone, the Peltor and the Switlik are great tools......put together....look elsewhere.......

[Dick Mitten]

Blender

Just installed it a couple of days ago, so only used it in the R44 so far. Based on current experience I expect good performance in other ships. Don't know (yet) firsthand how long the battery will last. Material from Headsets Inc. suggests about 20hrs. They also recommend better name batteries i.e. Duracell etc. and to avoid nicads for reasons already mentioned. I also carry a spare in my pocket. The racket inside my lid with the ANR off is now rather unpleasant!

Cheers,

[crop duster]

Bought ANR upgrade for my helmet two years ago. Can't believe I flew all those years without. Mine is hard wired in my crop duster but when I spray in the Bell 47 I have a pocket battery pack. It will last a little over a day if I fly all day. Well worth the money.

[vorticey]

ok, it sounds like earplugs are a good idea but what about the earseals. ive got the gel ones but they dont seem to be that great. are foam or air ones better?

[Twisted Rigging]

Best earseals I've used were Gel Filled, I think most manufacturers make them.
They conform to the contours of the head very well, and are comfortable over glasses or shades.

[Dick Mitten]

Our old DC headsets have gel seals, but the gel flows to the bottom of the seal. What's with that? Kinda like my saggy, middle aged gut!

The earseals I got with the ANR kit are gel also, but much stiffer. No flow with gravity. Kinda like... Oh, ferget that!

[super72bb]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post... I have a quick question regarding ANR. I am considering installing ANR in my helmet. After a little research I found something a bit strange. The ANR system I am looking to buy is effective from 20 HZ to 800 HZ. However, I have read that most hearing damage occurs in that 700 HZ to 7000HZ range. Does that mean that.... Aside from a little more comfort, ANR does not actually help save your hearing. Certainly I am missing something.

Thanks

[Dick Mitten]

I think you've got it right; ANR protects in the low range, not the high end.

I bought the kit from Headsets Inc this summer and installed it in my Gentex helmet. There is a noticable reduction of noise with the unit turned on, but the biggest advantage is getting to turn down the comm and intercom volumes 25 - 50%. The comm is also *much* clearer.

The kit was missing a couple of minor parts, but I was able to cobble it together.

[Thomas coupling]

Correct, low frequency range only. MGB, certain engine noise ancilliaries are reduced thus making for a quieter working environment and a little way to supporting duty of care in the work place. However the baddy frequencies -engine whine, certain harmonics -these are what cause actual damage to the pilots hearing range (mid range I believe) and one can do very little about it at the mo'. I am told by the manufacturers that it is quite a technical feat trying to conquer the high freq problems

[Dick Mitten]

Super,

Here are a couple of past ANR threads:

ANR Redux (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68823&highlight=ANR+Redux)

ANR Anyone (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=63445&highlight=ANR)

Cheers,

[Nick Lappos]

super72bb,

The reason why the ANR systems are only effective at the lower frequencies is locked in the principle that they employ. They sense the ambient noise, and its phase, and apply an exact inverse of that noise, the exact frequency and the opposite phase, to absorb the noise. Note with an ANR headset on, if you clap your hands, there is a distinct ringing for several seconds. That is the counter noise dying out as it fails to be reinforced.

As the frequency of the noise rises, the wave shape gets much more complex, and the calculations for the counter noise get nearly impossible (for today's computers).

None of the ANR's claim credit for helping reduce hearing loss, nor should they.

[verticalflight]

visit www.verticalflight.fsnet.co.uk

Consider the 'noise signature' of the aircraft you're flying when you make your decision.

[jamierwilliams]

What is the difference between the DC 10-13XL and the Bose X?

I find both headsets very comfortable and don't know which one to go for.

Is there a difference in clearness of rt, longetivity, hard-wearness etc.

I would appreciate any information from people have experienced wearing these headsets.

J@mie :-)

[IO540-C4D5D]

I have used the Bose X for 3 years and while I have not flown with the D-C I did test this during a fairly careful comparison of various headsets I did in both a headset shop equipped with an aircraft noise source and in an actual plane on the ground.

My view is that the Bose is better overall. The total attenuation of both is the same. The D-C has more passive attenuation but a lot higher earcup pressure. The Bose appeared to reproduce speech more clearly.

While this applies to all headsets, with the Bose you especially need to avoid using glasses which are too thick at the point where they pass under the earcup.

I think the Bose is less sturdy than the D-C so it's OK if you use it yourself only and look after it. In particular, if you get the aircraft-powered version, the connectors are flimsy and break easily.

I think the Bose is far more comfortable although this may not be apparent on short trips.

[Celtic Frog]

Don't know about ANRs but I'm a David Clark fan. One thing I learned the hard way...get the best hearing protection you can buy. It's tempting to think that there's no appreciable difference between a bunch of headsets all rated at 22, 23, or 24 decibels, but that one extra db protection makes a difference after a long day, or after a few hundred hours.
Also, I find David Clarks compatible with every aircraft type I've flown, and every other colleague pilot's (other type) headset.
However, like I said, never tried ANRs.

[jamierwilliams]

thanks for that very useful advise!

[rotormad]

To all

Doing my ATPL (H) and (A) and need to buy a head-set for heli's, could anyone recommend a make, model and where the best place (cheapest;) ) is to get it from. Just one more thing, probably being a complete idiot, can you use a heli headset in fixed wing. I could do without having to buy two different and very expensive headsets.

Cheers All

Rotormad:}

[Whirlybird]

rotormad,

You can use a f/w headset in helis if you get a converter bit to stick on the end of it. The only problem is there are two different types. I got one off ebay for about £12, only it turned out to be the wrong one; works for a few R22s in this country, but not most of them. I can't remember any details, except you want to get one with a silver coloured bit on the end, not the gold coloured bit, which is what I got.

I don't know if this makes much sense, but I'm sure someone who knows more about it than I do will post something which does.

[helipilotnz]

not that i am an expert as i have only been flying for a year and a half. i use a david clark h10-13h with the gel seals and find really comfortable although not cheap. i have an adapter p/n 18253g-05 which splits into the two plugs for the flaps stuff and had no problems. www.davidclark.com will have a list of approved suppliers. they do have the adapters that go the other way but i dont know the part number. ( i am only flying fixed wing to get a cheaper instrument rating and not jumping the fence)
hope this helps.
helipilotnz

[GLSNightPilot]

I normally use a headset I built myself, but David Clark makes excellent headsets, & has a great warranty & customer service. The H10-56 makes a good helicopter headset. I don't like the ENC headsets, because most of the noise from a helicopter is high-frequency, from the engine & transmission, & ENC headsets can't deal with this. They work fine for lower-frequency noise, but I don't think they're worth the extra money you'll pay. As others have noted, all you need is an adapter to convert the helicopter plug to a 2-plug configuration for fixed-wing, or vice-versa.

[Old Man Rotor]

If your going to be a constant user of the Head Set.....my only solid advice......don't buy cheap.

The rest is personal choice.

My experience has only been with the Alpha and Gentex helmet, David Clark, Bose, Peltor and Telex headsets.

The Peltor in my view for Helicopter folk stands out head and shoulders above the rest.....
But beware if wish to use the Peltor ANR and you are wearing a Mark 28, 50 or Switlik Jacket, as this Peltor has a solid long plug that protrudes vertically from the bottom of the earcup, and every time you turn your head the plug snags on the top of your jacket [perhaps my neck needs to grow longer!!]......Non ANR Peltors have the cable protruding from the side of the ear cup, which are fine with your jacket.

David Clarke has been around for years, and generally have a good reputation, their units are a little heavier but solid and robust.

If your rich.....go and try a Bose....US$1000 if you shop around.....but excellent performer, and fully expect to have it stolen???....the ANR is excellent.

There is a difference between ANR and ordinary headsets.......it is noticable when you turn the ANR system off.........a set of ear plugs under a good headset is also good....so ANR or not is personal choice.

If your swapping between High and Low impedence radio systems, [eg B412 - B206] either have two mics or a dual impedence system in your headset or helmet....there are kits that are commercially available as a retro fit....if you drop a case of beer on your Techs bench, he should be able to install it for you.

Using a non helicopter headset in a helicopter is another compromise best avoided.....non standard plugs and non coil leads are a hassle.....also different NRR.

Yes there are "Splitter Cables" available that will take a Helicoptor U174/U plug to match the dual plug aeroplane system, and a different "Splitter Cable" to take the Aeroplane dual sytem back to the Helicopter U174/U [go to the accessories page of the David Clarke web page for more info]

Buy a High Quality Headset as you start your first job, and it will serve you faithfully for years and tears.

[jellycopter]

We use the ANR Bose Aviation X headset in both A109 and Gazelle. When compared to the passive David Clarks and Peltors (can't remember the model no.s) they replaced they are superb. Yes they are pricey, but you get what you pay for. The installed versions are less hassle because you don't have to replace any batteries (but this type probably won't suit you if you are aircraft-hopping). They are comfortable, rugged, the boom mic is easy to locate and overall, in my opinion, just about the best on the market.

God only gave you one set of ears - pay the extra and look after them.

We got ours from Alec at RGV Aviation at Gloucester; very freindly, helpful, reliable and reasonably well priced compared to the competition. We've had 7 sets from them now and have been using them for a couple of years without problem. J

[rotormad]

Cheers all

Thanks for the info will put it to good use. Just one more thing, i know that if you could you should probably buy two headsets for fixed and rotary but am not in a position to shell out loads of cash at the mo, so looking at what you lot have written would you say it would be better to buy a heli specific headset and convert it across for fixed wing ops. It seems the sensible thing to do at this point in time.

Quite interested in the Bose headset as i've got a lot of their kit already and have always been very impressed, bloody expensive though:{

[Old Man Rotor]

I'm still saving to replace my last one......but may stay with the Peltor ....until someone likes that one more than I do...[Don't leave them hanging on hooks]

To answer your query, I guess if your heading down the helicopter path, then gear yourself up for the higher noise levels of the helicopter, and use a Splitter Lead for your aeroplance.....

As I said before....personal choice.

Look at the potential conflict with different impedence mics between the two aircraft types as well.

[handyandyuk]

It may well be worthwhile, whatever you have now or intend to get, having a word with Headset Services on Shoreham Airfield. Apart from being stockists for all things headset, they do a very nice line in custom made adaptors and convertors and at a decent price.
Their site also gives a basic rundown on connector types, differences, etc.

And Whirly should you want an adaptor to use a UK Nato (brass) plug with a US Nato (nickel) socket, mine cost about £40 all inc from them.:ok:

[Up & Away]

Before Sep 11 I flew both Airline and Rotary.
You must think eardefender first when it comes to Helicopters.

I once used my Helicopter Peltor in the Avto RJ with adaptor and found I could hardly hear the engines!! Quite alarming!!

I usually used a light weight Headset in the fixed wing and Peltor in Helicopters.

Always use your 'own' Headset
I do not recommend Clarke

:ok:

[rotormad]

Thanks all for the added info, will contact both Headset Services and RGV

Think i will go for the Heli option and buy seperate one for fixed wing when i can afford it.

Cheers

Up & Away

Ahh right, just read yours....i have got a cheap headset that i use for fixed wing, i guess i'll just have to keep using them and buy a decent headset for Heli.

[Special 25]

I'm sure the topic must have been covered before, but I guess like many I considered myself too old to benefit and thought the company might just issue me with one when safety rules caught up with reality - What was I thinking ??

Anyway, If I'm going to fork out myself for one, are they worth it, which is the best and and pro's / cons ?

Thanks

[GLSNightPilot]

I don't think they're worth it, but many will disagree with me. My chief complaint is that they can't deal with high-frequency noise effectively, & often have a lower NRR than passive headsets when the ENC is turned off, thus the high-frequency noise is worse with them than with a passive headset. Perhaps not true for all models, but in any case make very sure the passive NRR is at least in the 20+ dB range. I've tried ENC, and they work really great without the engine running, and to filter out the main rotor noise, but that isn't the noise that will hurt your hearing. Stand outside the helicopter, unloading passengers with the engines running, & see what I mean. The ENC will be much louder than a good, well-fitted passive headset. You could wear earplugs with it, but then what's the point of the ENC?

[bellsux]

Your best bet would be to buy a David Clarke headset with the helicopter lead and then buying a GA splitter lead. Why? because the only difference is that the helicopter one has the curly lead reducing the chances of it getting caught up in the cockpit, it also has the nato single plug on the end of it so you just plug the splitter on the end and it then has the two GA leads coming off it. The other way around you will get a loop that will catch. Helo lead option is always a bit more money but worth it. David Clarke is a well known brand with easy access to spares and over the years I have seen SLC come up with all sorts of interesting ways to try to destroy them. Again as others have said don't buy cheap.. Look out for a second hand one in 'new condition' around flying schools or ebaymotors.com in the aviation accessories section.

[Rotorbike]

How about the David Clark H10-60 (http://www.davidclark.com/HeadsetPgs/h10-60.htm) one headset with an interchangeable lead!!!

:ok:

[rotormad]

So many to choose from, will keep looking.

Cheers all;)

[GLSNightPilot]

How about the David Clark H10-60 one headset with an interchangeable lead!!!

Two problems:

1. The price DC wants for the extra cord.

2. If you wear a survival vest or anything like that, the long plug catches on it & suddenly you can't turn your head. I have one of these, but it stays in the box for this reason.

[B47]

I've just converted my pair of David Clark H10-13H headsets to ANR. Superb.

The conversion kit is approx £100 per headset from Adams Aviation (manufactured by Headsets Inc, USA) for the DIY package. Adams will do the work for you for £30 per set - well worth it.

So for a £300 headset plus £130 you can have an excellent ANR headset. So, if you have a pair of David Clarks, don't start buy another set. The figures for performance reckon about 85% of the performance of a Bose set. Passive is not noticeably different either.

I take the point about high frequencies, but in my noisy B47, the increase in comfort is dramatic and well worth it. I've heard many warnings about 'don't use ANR or you won't hear the noises you need alerting to' but in my view the discomfort comes from the low frequency rumble whioch ANR removes brilliantly. The higher frequencies still get through and can be heard more cleanly.

As someone who flies an old girl without a governor and needs the noise 'clues' more than most, I think ANR is brilliant.

Also, if you get the chance and it's your aircraft, fit the panel mount power to save on batteries.

[Gaseous]

If you leave Peltors in a hot cockpit, in the sun the ear cushions shrink permanently and fall out. I have three pairs that have done this. (various ages and models).

My Pilot DNC ANRs work very well, have 2 plugs and with UK and US Nato adaptors will fit all variants. I have come across R22s and Enstroms with both types so if you are going to rent aircraft it is as well to have both adaptors so it makes sense to buy a headset with 2 FW type jacks and 2 adaptors.

[18greens]

I'm just curious.

Why can't you use one set in both?

Is it just the plugs are different? Do helis use only NATO plugs. Is it a cruel scam to get you to buy another headset when you move from fix to fling?

I would have thought, given the low number of radios/intercoms sold that there would not be room in the market for helicopter radios and FW radios.

Someone tell me why???

[aspinwing]

You have actually answered your own question.

There is no difference in the radios between RW and FW.

The plug on the end of the headse cord is different. I fly RW and FW. The cord that drapes across my left knee in the C172 I don't want draped across my left knee in a Bell 206 - something to do with using the collective.rolleyes: Most helicopters have the radio jack in the overhead panel or rear bulkhead for that reason.

I have a DC headset and HU5 helmet, both with curly tails, with different mics. I sometimes have to swap the mics because of the radio setup but not because it is FW or RW. For FW I have a 3' extender and adaptor with the dual FW plugs. Works a treat.:O :

[The Auditor]

Fixed Winged pilots have smaller heads!:E

[Arm out the window]

aspinwing,
I've got a DC headset for helos but also do a bit of fixed wing flying.
I priced a commercially available adaptor lead only to find it was going to cost about $180 Aust to go from the NATO helo plug to the 2-pronged FW thing. Seems a ridiculous price for a couple of bits of wire and 3 plugs, but I guess aviation components are always costly.
Was your adaptor plug much cheaper than that?
I can use a soldering iron after a fashion, so if I could get hold of the bits I'd be happy to make one up.
Where did you get yours, if I may ask?

[GLSNightPilot]

The reason for the difference is the same as most things in aviation - tradition. Fixed-wing started out using (and many still have this) a speaker in the ceiling or somewhere, and a hand-held mike. You can plug headphones in & listen, while still using the handheld mike. Helicopters don't really permit that - you need both hands free, thus the integrated helmet or headset. The U174 plug originated in the military, the primary users of helicopters. When fixed-wing pilots started using headsets, they needed something that would fit what was already installed, thus the separate plugs for mike & speakers. Too much installed base for both to change either.

I've built my own adapter, & it's pretty simple. I had a jack from somewhere in the military, long ago, & bought the fixed-wing plugs. The speaker plug is a standard 1/4" plug, used for guitar cords, etc, available at any electronics place like Radio Shack in the US. The mike plug is smaller, & I broke down & bought a plug from an avionics place for a few dollars. The cable came from Radio Shack, IIRC. It's 2-pair, or 4 conductors. Any cable with 4 or more wires in it will work. You just have to deal with the split/splices, but rubber tape works very will with this. Mine isn't elegant, but it works, or did the last time I used it, several years ago. Being a humble helicopter pilot, I can't afford to pay to fly airplanes very often.

[GLSNightPilot]

Headsets, Inc. of Amarillo, TX makes an ANR kit that drops right into a David Clark headset or most any helmet. If you can use a soldering iron just a little, you can do it yourself. You do have to drill one hole in the dome, to allow the power cord to come out, but that's the only mod you have to do. Remove the existing speakers, & the kit drops right into the dome, and the earseals hold it in place. The existing wiring is soldered to the kit parts.

[the wizard of auz]

I went out and bought an adapter lead from Western Airmotive at Jandakot for about thirty bucks. Way too expensive for what it is, but I am known for being a lazy bugga.
Give godfrey a ring and he will see ya right. :ok:

[heedm]

Quality headsets do more than put speakers close to your ears and a microphone close to your mouth. The biggest (other) thing they do is sound attenuation. Helicopters have a different spectrum of noise than fixed wing...hence the difference.

If the different plugs bother you then have an adapter made and use just one headset. I've got a pair of FW David Clarks that have worked well in three different helicopter types.

[OopsNearly]

Heedm's got it right, try flying in a turbine helicopter without a headset and then do it in a fixed wing, you will soon note the difference. If you value your hearing and you plan to fly turbine long term then get a helicopter headset, David Clark or Peltor just to name two, and have custom made earplugs also. Good helicopter companies pay for them, we supply both headsets and earplugs.

[Hilico]

Heli headsets have a groove near the top of each ear-cup for the sunglasses.

[18greens]

GLSNightPilot

Thanks for that very logical reply. I can now see the historic reason for the differences.

Heedm

Are you saying the noise attenuation is different in a Heli head set to a FW headset? Do they knock out different ranges of the aural spectrum?

ASPINSWING

What are collective rolleyes?and why would a cord affect them?

To everyone-
All very interesting and thanks for the replies.

[Winnie]

BUY A HELMET FOR FRIGGS SAKE!

You can then choose from Alpha (Very Costly) Gentex (Costly) and Gallet (French:p :ok: )

[Blue Rotor Ronin]

Rotormad,
I, got a David Clark H20-16 with gelpads that I don't use, because they can't be converted to Super Pumas. Ouch!
The Bose I've tried, Very nicey very pricey. Fragile!
Peltors are cheap and chearful. Sturdy but passively pants.
Sennheiser, half price of Bose, double the Peltor. The Daddy!
Happy headset hunting.:ok:

[rotormad]

Winnie and anyone else for that matter.

Is buying a helmet worth serious consideration over a decent headset??? If i am going to spend a considerable amount of cash i would like to do it once, if you get my drift.

Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Rotormad

[Winnie]

Rotormad
IMHO it is a very good investment to buy a helmet, I wear mine religiously, and what you'll find is that it takes away even more noise than the headset, as well as giving additional protection against such incidents as birdstrikes and other flying objects! No problem with sunglasses either, since they are already there! The headset is inside as well, the only negative issue I find, is that terrible helmet hair after a few hours!:D

[rotordk]

Anybody tried the David Clark H10-76XL in Pumas ?
Seems like a good contender.....thoughts please !

[vorticey]

i have a cheap flightcom headset ($395A in 1997), gel seals, electret mic (whatever that means) and big cussion at the top. its great! strait cord wich i have had cut and a nato plug and socket inserted for use in both planks and heli's. nato plugs cost about $45 each ($90 for both). a bungy corded one would have been good but they get cought on everything too.
$8 sunglass seals work wonders!

p.s. i used a new david clark to day to see what the difference was (a cheaper one, $500), the sides were more adjustable (probably cause mine had more padding on the top) and it made my speech sound robotic and almost hard to understand, aswell the mic was big and ugly and had no wind sock, it was a silly pastal blue colour aswell.

[skyfarmer]

Before I get told to search the forums first, already done that, and read the posts. Plus read all manufacturers blurb etc.

Have been instructing now for about 4 months, and was hoping to upgrade my 1996 model DC 13.4 ANR set with a new ANR set, if I know there is going to be an improvement. Loads of new sets available now, newer improved circuitry etc.

So to the question....

Has anyone out there any experience with sets such as BOSE X, Lightspeed Thirty 3G, Pilot 17-79, Telex Stratus Digital, or other makes? The ones listed above are on my shortlist at present.

What I am looking for is direct comparisions between the sets, from people with experience of them.

I know the BOSE set is going to cost me more than a months salary, but if they do the job, and safeguard the medical, then it has to be worth it.

Cheers

Neil

[FlyingFowl]

Have you considered adding the electrics to your existing DC13.4. I converted my 1992's about four years ago well worth the upgrade.

ps
keep an eye on the mixture control if you instruct with them as there is no noise clue if your student decides to starve the engine of fuel. :ok:

[skyfarmer]

I have 2 DC headsets, one is factory ANR 13.4 set from about 1996, and the other set a standard 13.4 set.

I could add the Adams electronics set to the non ANR set, or see if DC do a factory upgrade of my old ANR set to the new electronics.

As luck would have it, a chap at the club yesterday came in with a Bose X headset, so i took it up on my next lesson and did direct comparison with the DC ANR set. The student also tried the three different sets (DC Passive 13.4, DC ANR 13.4 and BoseX).

There is not much difference between the ANR sets. The Bose IS quieter than DC ANR, but not by enough to warrant chucking the DC's. DC's do have a definite background hiss at higher frequencies.

The student said the clarity of my voice through the Bose mic was improved over the DC mike, and I could notice a definite improvement to his clarity when I had the Bose on and he was using the DC sets.

I would be worried about build quality /strength of the Bose set though. They seem like a cheap plastic jap toy in comparison to a set of DC 's. The mike boom seems very flimsy where it fits to the headset, get it caught once on shoulder strap and it would probably be ripped clean out of headset.

They are very comfortable and light though, you almost forget they are on.


Our club has recently purchased 16 new sets of Peltor 8006's.

Do not let anyone else make the same mistake, they are F****ing awful. As a pair of them, (left and right seat) the audio is bad enough, the mike noise from them is horrendous

I let all my students use my spare DC 13.4's once they get themselves a set of earcovers and mike sock, so I do not have to listen to the noise from the peltors.

[Squawk7777]

I have two: Bose X and the Telex ANR 1D. The Bose is probably the better one, not by much though. The reason I didn't go straight to the X was the $400 difference, the fact that the ANR unit of the Telex can be powered by 4AA and/or a cigar lighter input. The Bose is also a bit lighter than the 1D.

I have used headsets with electronic add-ons, but am not really impressed. It depends how much your hearing is worth...

7 7 7 7

[skyfarmer]

Thanks,
Have not come across the Telex 1 D, and have only seen adverts for the 50 D. Have you come across the 50 D and if so, is it greatly improved on the 1D ?

[Heliman01]

Hi

I have used the DC anr and have the Bose x, and price aside i found the Bose to give better Active noise cancelling, but not very good at passive, so always have a spare battery with you, then you shouldnt have a problem ( i get about 20 hours use out of each alkaline battery). The Bose anr works mainly on the lower frequencies, cutting out alot of the gearbox and blade noise, which is the most damaging range to the ears, you still hear a large % of the turbine high pitch which i am informed is not so damaging !

The Bose is very light and comfortable, even after 6 hours in the seat of a 332 Super Puma. I found myself not as fatigued with the Bose, also overall RT is very clear, and i find i dont have to have the radios on full blast, which will benefit my medical in years to come.

The durability maybe a little compromised as the ear cups are made of plastic, but this makes them light weight and comfortable, the DC were very heavy. As soon as i have finished with my Bose after each flight i put them back in there protective case,and not left in the ops room to get dropped.

After service on Bose is second to none as i have found out, which was the deciding factor for me. I have now done 1400 hours flying with the Bose X, and as you can tell i am very pleased with it.

One final thought for you, that might persuade you to part with the cash is that the price of a minature digital hearing aid for those with partial hearing ( or an ex Super Puma driver ) is around a thousand pound !

[beetlenut]

Have been looking at new helmets recently and have noticed a distinct price variation in ANR kits.

Can anyone help with the following??

1) Is there a particular range which denotes better ANR abilities?

2) Should ANR kits be "matched" or approved by the helmet manufacturer?


The reason being

Alpha ANR kit = $1500 odd on top of helmet price

Gallet = $600 .........................................

3rd party = $200 + buy either of the above helmets.



How do I measure apples to apples hear??



Thanks John

PS: mis-spelling of hear international.

[Lowlevldevl]

My opinion on ANR, having retrofitted aftermarket to an Alpha and having it standard on a Gallet is this.
Unless your helmet is being paid for by your company, forget it.
Neither of my ANR systems has worked for more than a month before breaking down. When they were working the expense of fitting a new 9volt battery every work day was seriouslygalling. Now I use foam earplugs. They do twice as good a job as ANR and are so cheap that the cost of a bulk box from time to time is stuff all.
Try a few different types of plugs to see which is most comfortable. Personally I like the 'classic'. Its made of a medium density cylindrical foam, not tapered, not soft and squishy. For some reason these are the most comfortable for me. You may feel a bit of pressure in the inner ear to begin with but after 3 or 4 days you'll forget they're even there. When I'm finished with them I slip them into a zip pocket in my flight suit and they get cleaned when the suit goes trough the wash.
If, like me you are a slave to new technology, you'll buy the ANR anyway. Somebody gave me this exact same advice also.

Beetlenut hey!? Where abouts in PNG?

[HeliMark]

Another cheap, and I think better way is to get the C.E.P. It is the foam ear plugs with a small speaker in them. There is only a small modification to plug them into the audio of the helmet. The foam is very easy to replace and cheap.

I cut the volume of my radio's down by almost half with them. I have had them for two years now and have not had any trouble with them.

[B Sousa]

A bit of a stray from the original question. It seems you must require a Helmet vs. Headset. That being the case to get one new its going to cost big bucks. If properly maintained it should last a long time. I still have my old Military one although its not ANR it works great. Try www.flightsuits.com for new ones and believe it or not www.ebay.com for old ones.
If you can settle for an ANR headset (also not cheap) I have had a David Clark ANR, worked good but got heavy. I now am trying a Lightspeed which works for me and the factory service for questions and support are good www.anrheadsets.com
Give yourself some time, after 30 some years of this stuff I cant hear that well anyway.
Good Luck.

[neverinbalance]

ANR Don't bother.

[GLSNightPilot]

If you do go ANR, at least get something that gives passive protection at the level of passive sets. ANR only works on low frequencies, and works on main rotor noise, only marginally on tail rotor noise, and not at all on turbine noise. Thus, if your passive protection isn't up to standard, you're getting greater hearing loss than you would with a good passive set. Check the NRR at all frequencies, not just the average NRR, in passive and active mode. If it falls off at higher frequencies, look elsewhere.

[Avnx EO]

Question:

Bell delivers 412s (and previously 212s) from the factory with the aircraft wired for the old, military style headsets (Old ugly grey things with the kidney-shaped, 8-ohm earpiece and 5-ohm dynamic mic.) The intercom system can accommodate modern civil headsets (150 ohm earpiece, high impedance microphone with DC bias) by swapping over some wires.

My question is....For the most part, have people switched their 412s / 212s over, or are they still using the military headsets and ICS as deliverd by Bell?

For those who haven't switched, Do people consider it a pain that you can't use your new-technology headsets (ANR etc.)?

If you fly multiple types, do you have two headsets, or do you keep the 412/212 headsets with the ship and use a personal headset for everything else?

Avnx EO.

[GLSNightPilot]

I've never been in a 212 or 412 that used low-impedance headsets. They all have normal civilian avionics, at least all that I've seen, so apparently the conversion is common, if in fact Bell does deliver them that way. I've never heard of this even being discussed before.

[sandy helmet]

We fly a mixed fleet of old 212s and 412s. The 212s do use the old low impedance systems. You can either shell out a lot of cash for a David Clark head set with a high/low switch, or buy a separate low impedance mike from CommInnovations. Some of our guys have wired two booms together and then connect which ever one they need to use. The other alternative is to buy a low impedance box (also from CommInnovations), into which you simply plug your HI head set.

[crop duster]

Dave, what does the plug look like? There are several sources for adapters. Try Sportys:

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showprod.cfm?&DID=19&CATID=94&ObjectGroup_ID=505

There several adapters there.
Barryb

[Crashondeck]

If you cant get an adaptor off the self, try Adams Aviation at Biggin Hill - they made me an adaptor from UK NATO to US NATO. Not cheap, but saved investing in another headset. You could also try Head Set Services at Shoreham. If you are lucky enough to find an Avionics Engineer, he might be able to put a more convention plug on for you for the cost of the plug and a few beers!

Good Luck

[GuppyWN]

I'm sure it's been discussed but I either missed it or didn't want to think about spending $500 - $1000 on ear warmers - until now.

Sennheiser is "the one" I see most on the line. I used a Bose ANR 10 years ago in the corporate world and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.

What'cha got or what do you recommend and why?

Thanks in advance.

Gup

[flashf15]

Try the form-fitted ear thing in one ear and a foam ear plug in the other. The foam ear plug works best when insertion coincides with other crewmember's discussion of how he can't believe he's getting paid to do this job.:ok:

Flash

[Mumbles1]

I have the Sennheiser Whatever-45. The smaller of the two available. They are 100 times better than the plug in the ear Telex. However, they only take the edge off the noise, I wish they did a little more. As for the the other model up, the -25, most of the guys that have them keep one cup off their ear so they can hear. Kind of a waste if you are going to use them just like the old headset.

I flew with a guy that had the new Bose Aviation X. I tried them and the were a lot quieter and very comfortable. I don't see myself tossing a $500 headset on the shelf to shell out a grand for the Bose.

You can payroll deduct the Sennheisers.

[flint4xx]

I tried the new Telex 850 (no battery required, open ear ANR) It sucked. I sent it back. I'm still using the company issue.

[PlaneTruth]

I have an old Dave Clark 10-66 I bought for when I flew the "Four Fanned Trash Can." I sent it back to DC for a ten year spruce up and for $90 they sent me a brand spankin new headset! My daughter glommed on to it and used it for her Private Rating.

Just for giggles, I brought it on a trip when my FO had his Sennheiser's and we compared: The old DC's were WAY quieter but after only a few minutes your head felt like it was in a vice. Odd, I used to wear the things for hours with no discomfort at all. DC has a new sheepskin cover that might help "pointy heads" like me.

As Flash related, the earmold in one ear with a foamie in the other is a remarkably quiet and economical combination. I have nearly 20 years in the 737 and my hearing tests keep coming back with no hearing loss. Remarkable considering my penchant for occasional loud sessions with my Stratocasters. (Another hint: With earplugs in you can even turn it up LOUDER!)


Good luck.


PT:ok:

[64XKE]

I've used my Sennheiser for a couple of years and wouldn't fly without it. Here are some tips to make it better:

1. Buy the more expensive stereo version. The stereo lets you turn up the outboard ear for the radios, but turn down the inboard ear to hear the other pilot. Or, if the guy's a d*ck, you can turn up both. In either case, the noise reduction is independent of the radio volume level.

2. Buy the version with the open cell foam ear disks. The harder foam ear cups give most people an ear cramp after an hour or so. But, so will the open cell foam, just in a different spot.

3. So, when you buy the headset, also spend the $7.00 for a set of replacement soft foam ear cups-- the combo of the softer foam ear cups with the flatter open cell foam disks makes all the difference.

4. Unless you want to payroll deduct, you can also do a Google search for the model number--I think it is the Sennheiser HMEC-45-- and get a really good factory refurbed headset for about $400. When mine was stolen from my truck, I did that and got what was, as far as I could tell, a brand-new headset, with several more things than I did with the SWA version-- a nice carrying case and some instructions, etc.

Hope this helps.

[Tainted LUV]

You can payroll deduct the Sennheisers. And there lies the rub.

Do you think it would cost $1000/plane for an adequately sound-resistant cockpit? Maybe the company would be able to get a better deal than $500/headset? (Of course, that would mean the negotiators at Sennheiser would be as poor as the swapa team.)

In the meantime, the company feels that the possibility of losing a $2,050,000 lawsuit from this group of self-sacrificial jelly-fish for not providing hearing protection in a known hazardous work environment is worth the risk.

Next thing you know, we'll pay for our own type-rating and uniforms.

[Little Elvis]

I'm using the Seinheiser -45 as well. I'm happy with the Seinheisers, but to get the best results, the other guy needs them too. Then you can do the rubber band trick and talk over ICS. Really nice on long hauls. I mean I've "heard" of people doing that trick with the rubber band and the ICS. The -45's seem to use batteries more slowly than the -25s, but I still bought a NiMH recharger and 4 batteries from Radio Shack. Works out great when you forget to turn off the ANR switch. I also agree that the stereo function is worthwhile as well. Get the foam ear pads, as Mr. Jag says.Remarkable considering my penchant for occasional loud sessions with my Stratocasters. (Another hint: With earplugs in you can even turn it up LOUDER!)
PT, do you have or have you tried the "Pandora's Box"? I'm thinking about getting one from Santa, but haven't talked with anybody that's really played with one. Sorry for thread creep and thanks in advance.

[seventreeseven]

Trying the telex 850 now. Haven't come to the "it sucks" conclusion yet. I like the fact that you don't need a battery pack. Seems to cut out quite a bit of the hissing wind noise. It only does 10 or 12 dbs compared to 22 to 30 for a foam earplug. I don't take one of the earpieces off until approach so that I'm sure to hear all of those deviation callouts.

Hope this helps

[tools]

I tried the Sennheiser with the stereo controls for one month. I liked the noise-cnx and I liked doing the "rubber-band" thing, but, I decided the whole thing was not worth the hassle. I usually had an earcup off to listen to whispering Captains, too many wires to plug-in and plug-out(rubber jungle), batteries are a hassle, and the fatique issue seems like a sales-gimmick to me. Sennheiser happily took it back and I am happily using my molded ear-piece thingy again. Keep it simple, man.

[flashf15]

Little Elvis, The Pandora's Box is a decent piece. I have the old one (a few years old) and have played thru the new one too. For the size, you can't beat it. Couple it up with my Steinberger, and it's the smallest jamming package I know of. Drum patterns, bass patterns with movable keys, 50 presets and a slew of programmable room, and that's the old one. The new one is more ergonometrically friendly.

Flash

[Little Elvis]

Thanks Flash. Maybe Santa... errr Herb will bring me one for Christmas!

LE

[GuppyWN]

Not well informed on the open/closed ear design. The Sennheisers come in the 45 and 25 model BUT the model is either a HME or HMEC. Then there is active and passive.

I'm so confused. I think you're right Flash. I'll use the .05 cent solution until I figure all this out.

Keep the debate coming please.

Gup

[PlaneTruth]

Little Hunk-a-hunk-of Elvis,

I got a Pandoras box a few years ago and they are absolutely awesome. The old one was, as Flash indicated, ergonomically inept at times but VERY nice. It is so cool to be walking around the house with a cd player on the belt pumping Floyd through the Pandoras Box which your guitar is plugged into. You are TOTALLY mobile. Way nice. I bought mine after seein Rich Hawley's a few years back in SEA.

PT:ok:

[Tripwire]

How about a link and some more info on this Pandoras Box gadget.

[FNGatSWA]

Ear mold thingy with the foam ear plug in the other ear works like a charm for me. Descending at 280KIAS vs barber-pole tends to make a huge difference as well.

I tried my Dave Clarks and they worked great as well - only thing was the flight attendants kept making fun of my "headset-head". I've already got too many things for them to make fun of so I decided to go back to the company issue.

Speaking of "company issue", do any of you have the black V-neck sweater that the FOM states is company issued? Starting to get chilly down here in MCO and that sweater sounds perfect. I must have been absent the day they issued it .........

[tweety bird]

737 and others. How does the telex anr850 work with two foam ear plugs and the headset???????

[seventreeseven]

Tweet,

737 and others. How does the telex anr850 work with two foam ear plugs and the headset

I don't think you'd hear anything.

[spectra]

PPRuNers,

If I told you the law says that an employer needs to supply the instrumentalities to make a workplace safe and that medical research now claims that constant exposure to 70-80 db range causes long-term hearing maladies like tinitus (sp?) and that the 737 cockpit is 84-90 dbs, would any of you feel SWA should be buying our ANR headsets?

What if I told you that Don Renfro was fired by John Kramer from the Aeromedical Committee because he pushed for a study of the impact of noise in the 737 cockpit on SWAPA members. Kramer and Crum had a meal and Crum told Kramer SWA will not pay for headsets. Kramer said ok and told Don to drop it. Kramer even went as far as to change Don's RP article without Don's permission on the subject. And the board was presented with this information.

My point is this. SWAPA's mission statement says they should be on top of things that can hurt us. Why isn't the Association taking the lead on cockpit noise and the impact on SWAPA members. If it is harmful, SWA has a legal duty to provide at their expense tools for us to protect ourselves.

Or do you think we should all just pay $450 a pop every few years for the privilege of flying their noisy airplanes or go unprotected?

BTW, final fact, the AF has given disability ratings and payments for years to pilots. Many who flew the KC-135. The AF documents say that the pilots suffer from long-term hearing loss in certain freq. ranges and tinitus (ringing in the ears).

Guys, the noise and its negative effects on the human body over time is real. Fly with Dave Wirtala if you don't believe me.:D

The question is should you pay or the company. Right now the company has shifted the burden to you because our union has let them even though the law is on our side.

[GuppyWN]

Fly with Dave Wirtala if you don't believe me.

Now THAT'S funny. Wasn't very darn funny when I was a week old but it's funny to look back on it now.

Gup

[flashf15]

Spectra, I'll ask our Aeromedical Committee what gives at the Dec BOD mtg and let you know.

Tripwire, Try this:
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=PX4&category_id=6

This thing rocks and can even be played out thru your stereo. It's amazing how much better you can get playing to a drum pattern.

Flash

[Tori]

Hearing protection for pilots has been an ongoing debate for a long time. Talk to anyone who has flown Boeing 707/727/737 aircraft for 20 years or more and you'll most likely be talking to a person with significant hearing loss! Recently, I came across an article about this subject in the PHX crew lounge. It stated that OSHA, Occupational Safety and Health Administration, specifically exempts itself from this area (airline cockpits) and will not write regulations for mandatory hearing protection as they do for other work places. Sounds like the ATA (Airline Transport Assn) may have done some serious lobbying to be granted this exemption.

Having said that, it would seem incumbent on the airlines to make an effort to protect their pilots. I was at Oshkosh this year and talked to the Sennheiser guys. They said that Boeing makes a switch for the yoke or comm panel that will make "HOT MIC" available without using rubber bands. It is available but Southwest just won't buy it. How much could it cost to protect the hearing of the best pilots in the US airline industry?

How many of you out there, when lying down in a quiet room, can hear a ringing or pinging sound that can vary in pitch or type of sound? (Rushing, roaring hash, pinging, etc.) Or, how many of you are being told by your spousal unit to turn down the TV? How many of you think to yourself about how people seem to mumble more these days and can't enunciate well. Most of us have a measurable high frequency loss which makes many words sound like mumbling because we don't hear the entire word, just the low and medium frequencies. These are all signs of hearing loss.

There are some great new headsets out there on the market when combined with the switch that Boeing makes could eliminate hearing loss from this job. Now, does the company care enough about us to at least help us state a goal and meet the financial aspects of that goal? If SWA would just fund the switch installation and let us choose and buy the headset we prefer it would be a giant gesture of goodwill. Later, after further study, the company, along with the pilots, could decide on the best headset for our operation and negotiate a low price that should be paid for by the company but could be shared in the beginning to get the ball rolling.

I have had regular hearing tests done and have kept them in graphic form. If enough pilots do the same then perhaps some day a class action lawsuit could be brought to all the airlines stating that while the technology existed to have saved the hearing of their pilots, these airlines kept silent and did nothing. It would be far less expensive for airlines to provide hearing protection for pilots than to pay for expensive digital hearing aids and damages payments for loss of the ability to enjoy life as others do who weren’t harmed by their workplace and management policies.

I have paid for my own headset even though I would have preferred the company to do so. Now, I really enjoy the noise levels I get when my FO has an ANR headset as well. These headsets also have noise canceling mics so the level of "hiss" is quite low when the hot mic is in use. When an FO is using only a Plantronics earpiece it helps him hear the hot mic but it makes my hearing less than desirable because the Plantronics mic is not very noise canceling, but still better than going without. When two Sennheiser units are used together with "HOT MIC" it is like conversing with your FO in a living room. It's GREAT!

Tori:

[Tripower455]

PT, do you have or have you tried the "Pandora's Box"? I'm thinking about getting one from Santa, but haven't talked with anybody that's really played with one. Sorry for thread creep and thanks in advance.

L.E.,

Did you ever get the Pandora? I've had a PX-4 (the latest one) for about a year now, and it's the second best, guitar related accesssory that I've bought, next to my Traynor tube amp.

It sounds awesome, and Flash is right, the rythym patterns are great for improvisation practice, and are customizable for temp and key. I use it on the road as well as at home when the famly units are asleep. I've even recorded with it directly patched into my Fostex digital multitracker.

:ok:

[Leather clad warrior]

PHX flight ops has/had the 850 to try on a trip.

[swamp monkey]

Just want to know what people use/recommend in the way of ANR headsets.

[Chilli]

I use DC 13x money well spent, I would like to try Bose to found what that amount of money buys.

[Big Kahuna]

I have a Sennheiser HMEC 300 ANR headset. It's great, very comfortable and great noise reduction.
German made and about USD$500. Not the cheapest.
It is a bit hungry on batteries, but also can be easily wired into the aircraft power source.

I also have a Lightspeed ANR headset it also quite nice, light, good battery life, comfortable. And resonable price.

Lightspeed (http://specialfx.co.nz/lightspeed/)

Sennheiser (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/products_aviation_active-noise)

[OpsNormal]

Or, for someone a bit handy with a soldering iron, Click Here (http://www.headsetsinc.com)

Enjoy.:}

[MARZ]

I have heard that if you fly turboprop with an anr headset you can't hear the props if they go out of sync. This could be a good thing for you (as the pilot) but maybe not for the pax.

However- I think they're a great idea!

[Jamair]

I have a collection of sets from Altronics cheapies, to DC 10-30s, to the DC ENC. On any given day I will jump from a piston single, to a pressurised turboprop, to a piston twin; and the DC ENCs are simply fantastic in all environments. I would like to try a Bose too, but I am very happy with the DCs. You need to find someone who has a type you think you want and borrow them for a days flying - there is no other way to really test whether they will deliver what you want.

[Bombay]

Buy a decent headset. Don't be cheap and get one of those DIY ANR kits that requires a soldering iron. You are wasting your time.

ANR is the best thing that has happened to headsets. I fly most of my hours in a multi-turboprop and have owned ANR for the last 2 years. The best NZ$1000 I have ever spent. Period.

I have used several ANR headsets. Here's my 2 cents on the best ones:

BOSE X: By far the best, but also the most expensive. I have used the BOSE X in pistons and multi turboprops and it's absolutely superb all round. Nice and light, magnesium at the top etc. Very confortable. Very expensive.

TELEX 4105: This is the one I have now. I bought this one because it offered EXACTLY the same noise reduction numbers (passive and ANR dBs) as the Bose, but half the price.

It is not as good looking. The Telex sets are a bit clunky and heavier than the Bose, but it depends how much you want to spend. Who cares what you look like wearing it? It's all about preserving your hearing.

Also, the Bose chews through the batteries by comparison. The Bose X that I have used (which belongs to a mate of mine) only gets about 20 hours flying per 9V batt.

The Telex 4105 that I have gets 50 hours flying per 9V batt.

Also, don't be a cheap b*stard when it comes to buying batteries. I use the Duracell 9V which by far gives me the longest life. I have tried all the others. The only one that comes close is the Energiser E2, but I find the Duracell is better.

Bombay

[Spinnerhead]

I purchased the DIY kit over the net direct from Headsets Inc for the princely sum of $250. It included a new cable and an auto off device to save battries when left on accidently. this is about $150 cheaper than I could get the same kit in Oz. I installed the kit in my DC 13.4's.

I fly piston twins and single turbine, and the results were brilliant! These kits only take away the low frequency noise, i.e. prop noise and piston noise. So for the first time in your career, you will be able to hear people talking behind you in the aircraft. However the real benefit is the reduced fatigue on your brain after a long day in the saddle.

The battery problem is easily solved by using rechargable batteries. But you need to spend the bucks on good rechargeables, which means Nickel metal hydrides. Nicad's just don't cut it.

I have never worn the Bose's, but comparing mine to a mates factory DC anr's, neither of us could tell the difference.

[...still single]

The LATEST Bose X, logged 50 hours on two 'AA' batteries.

...UUUUNREAL!!:ok:

[Floody]

So just moving away from the Bose headsets for a minute (for those of us who actually work in GA and can't afford it), the DC 13X, are they worth the money you pay for them?? And the noise reduction you get, are they comparible to the Bose headsets?

Floody

[SmoothCriminal]

Telex - Startus 50 D - Digital

Have been using it for about a year... and just great. Provides the best noise reduction.... they claim it's the only ANR that reduces noise in three ways.. Passive, Analog and Digital !

Needs 4 AA's to give about 20 hours.... But has a lead out with cigar jack which u can plug into anything from 8 to 24 volts.

www.telex.com

Some want about $1600 for it.... Shop around and shall obtain for $1300...... Hint : YSBK :)

Colleagues use the DC's and they have a lot of troubles with battery power and two of them had troubles with some strange !! noises coming out of one earpiece within the first month. Them got replaced though.

Smoothie :ok:
:)

[Carrier]

The whole issue of ANC headsets is very fully dealt with on AVweb. Anyone considering the purchase of an ANC headset should go to www.avweb.com and check all the articles and data, including the reviews by Mike Busch. Then, as suggested by Mike, attempt to try the various headsets until you find one that you can afford and are comfortable with. Most of the major makers have their products available on their own or a dealer’s stand at major air shows. Pilot supply shops should also be willing to let you try them.
Get the very best ANC headset you can afford. The Bose is probably the best but I was unable to afford $1,000. After checking the AVweb material and trying the Bose and Lightspeed products at an air show in Toronto I bought a Lightspeed 20XL and have never regretted it.
I have used the Lightspeed 20 XL for several years. When it was about two years old a problem developed with the ANC. I returned it to Lightspeed under the warranty and received a replacement. All it cost me was postage from Ontario, Canada to Oregon, USA. Lightspeed Aviation stands behind its products and there are never any hassles over warranty repairs. While awaiting the replacement I had to use my original $80 non-ANC student-type headset. What a trial! It brought home to me just how effective a good ANC headset is.
Before moving to Africa early last year I decided I should have two good ANC headsets, one being available as a reserve is case the normally used headset should develop a problem and have to be sent away for repair. I took advantage of Lightspeed’s offer of reconditioned 25XL headsets. I have used the 25XL for over a year and have been extremely happy with it. The 20XL is kept in reserve but has been used from time to time by my boss since someone “borrowed” his old non-ANC headset last August. He is also very happy with the performance and comfort of the 20XL and is somewhat reluctant to return to using his old headset which he recovered last month!
According to the AVweb material the Bose seems to rely more for its effectiveness on the ANC as against passive protection. This is fine as long as the ANC is working. The ANC does fail occasionally in any make and being human we sometimes let the batteries expire. If either of these events should happen in flight the headset can still be used and the one with better passive protection will be more effective. Another advantage for the Lightspeed headsets is that they use two AA batteries. These are the same as used in a Mini-Maglite torch and Lowrance GPS so you only have to carry a couple of spare AA batteries to cover all three products.
In addition to saving your hearing a good ANC headset will make understanding radio calls much easier. I have flown in the Caribbean as well as in Africa. The accents of controllers and local pilots are often difficult to understand. In addition, some of the radios they use are not of the best quality so their transmissions are less clear than they should be. A good ANC headset makes life a lot easier.
Buying a good ANC headset was one of the best moves I have made in my aviation career.

[Jamair]

Floody - I tried several types and chose the DC 13X; I have had them in constant use for 2 years. They are very good in passive and active (especially in noisy piston twins), as well as having plenty of local warranty support. I can confirm the other reports of vastly improved radio comms and the ability to hear conversation-level speech in the cabin. The batteries are good for about 50hrs using new duracells rather than rechargables. I also carry a spare battery pack for those occasional in-flight failures. I wouldn't be without them - unless I could afford Bose.

[squawk1200]

Floody, ask us about my Sennheiser's next time your on MSN. I brought the HMEC 300's nearly 2 years ago. Cost me about 1400bucks and i would NEVER go back..

Andy

[Transition Layer]

Borrowed a colleagues Bose headset the other day and was blown away. I must admit it makes the engine sound a little wierd at first but you get used to it pretty quickly. Switching the ANR on and off during flight really made me realise how much bl00dy noise we're exposed to normally!

Now for a lazy couple of grand to get myself a pair :rolleyes:

TL

[benoss]

Hi
im looking at buying a headset and im leaning towards the Lightspeed ANR Thirty 3G. It seems to have a whole heap of features for a reasonable price and a nice little function that switches the batteries off for you, aso the noise reduction seems huge. im just wondering if anyone had any ideas about them or would recommend anything better?

thanks

[Warren Buffett]

Does anyone have any opinions on what are the best ANR headsets to buy? Especially for use by my young grand kids. It has to be stereo and light.

I currently use the Bose Aviation Headset X (fantastic when they work) but they are abysmally fragile. Can't buy it with coiled cables hence they regularly get accidentally ripped out of the aircraft panel connector and it costs several hundred dollars to replace the cable and control module - can't just buy the one inch plug for the wall. Also, the ear cushion falls apart after 100 hours of use. There's also a silly design fault that allows the whole earcup to be twisted 360 degrees thereby damaging the wires.

Thanks.

WB

[delta3]

Best ANR headsets to buy?

Don't know the answer, but I fully agree with your statement, great headsets, but fragile. So I like to know the answer too. Had to repair myself the plugs last month, because the plastic casing broke and which resulted in intermittant false contacts. The plugs are totally wrongly designed. Had to send them in according to Bose, I could not recieve the required plastic pieces. 1000 NM away from home base, not really an option....
Perhaps Bose thinks we take a few spares with us...

delta3

[Banjo]

We had coiled leads on our bose sets in two SA 341/2's.
Having said that not that impressed with them (and if you are using a battery pack when it expires they don't work as passives). We had them wired in and the plugs are small fiddly and of poor design

Have just spent a week using a set of Telex 50-D again not got coiled lead but can't argue too much about the noise quality. Very easy at hearing those controllers who insist on chewing sweets while talking to you or otherwise try their best to make their transmission unreadable.

Am going to try a couple of other pairs though next week as the Telex is not one hundre percent perfect fit for me (and they are not small). Will be using the Sennheiser HMEC 400 and also the Pilot 17-79 DNC XL headset. So most expensive (bose excluded) to cheap end.

Oh and have been informed from reliable source that the lightspeed headsets are no good for regular use as they break a lot and are not built for more than very light private use...and appparantly even this can cause things to snap off.

[cholmondeley]

I am considering buying a pair of Bose X for an R22. It appears that I have the choice of "low impedence" or "high impedence". Can anyone advice on which is best?

[muffin]

The headset requirements for the R22 can get difficult, as certainly when using Peltors you have to have a special version with a bridge rectifier in it.

I would tell the supplier that you want to use them with an R22 and let them tell you which version you need. That way when they don't work as may well be the case, it is down to them to sort it out for you.

You will also need to tell them whether you need a UK Nato (bronze) or US Nato (silver) plug. Just look at the existing one to determine this.

I speak from experience!

[SilsoeSid]

I am considering buying a pair of Bose X for an R22. It appears that I have the choice of "low impedence" or "high impedence". Can anyone advice on which is best? I suppose it would depend if you were planning on starting a family or not!

Is there really such a health risk in headsets!

;)
SS

[bladewashout]

I use David clarks with the Gel earpiece covers (13.4?), and been very happy with them.

I've always wondered whether, with Bose noise cancelling sets (are the 'X' noise cancelling?) any increase in noise might get cancelled out, e.g. imminent bearing failure.

With noise cancelling, is there less scope for appreciation of changes in noise characteristics which might alert the pilot to a problem?

BW

[md 600 driver]

i would suggest you call a bose supplier i use a company at shoreham who ive found to be helpfull on more than one occasion
if i am allowed to say it
it is headset services shoreham

mod please delete if you think this is advertising
this is only a recomendation because of good service given to me

[muffin]

Yes, I agree. I don't like noise cancelling for that reason as I prefer to continuously monitor what is going on round me as long as it's not too loud.

I normally fly my fixed wing a/c wearing headsets but the other day I did not bother to put the radio on and wear any. As a result I heard a noise which turned out to be a worn nose wheel bearing, which I would not have noticed with headsets on.

[Flingwing207]

Hi cholmondeley

The "normal" Bose X (high impedance) work just fine in the Robinson (I've used mine in around five R22s and one R44). If you have problems in any particular helicopter, it's probably due to an impedance mismatch between the two headsets in the helo. However the high-impedance Bose seems to play well with all DC's on most all intercoms. PS - the low-impedance is for military/NATO aircraft - the mic will not work in civilian aircraft, even if the plug is the same.

bladewashout, muffin the ANR of the Bose attacks large amplitude noises but has little effect on small ones. When I switched from DC 10.66's to the Bose, I was amazed at the additional noise detail suddenly apparent - transmission, tail-rotor, heck I can even hear the sound of the 300's clutch actuator over the engine and rotor on startup. At 70KT with both doors off I still hear the beeping voice-mail alert on my phone (oops, forgot to turn that rascal off...). With ATC, I always hear more than the dude sitting next to me in the DCs (and yellow foam plugs stuck in their ears), although it is sometimes a battle dealing with the volume turned up to earsplitting levels because THEY can't hear it. There may be ANR headsets which mask important sounds, but in my experience, not the Bose.

And Muffin, you may well hear more without a headset at all, but not for long... :}

[Warren Buffett]

Bose X does not represent value for money, IMHO. The ear cushion fall apart in a year or two and replacement ear cushions are far more expensive than say, David Clark's. Until recently the wire is straight rather than spring coiled so if you lean back against the seat you can pull out the wire from the control module box. The adjustable headband has a small cushion at the top. This falls out after a few hours of use. The wind screen on the mic boom rots and falls apart after a year or two.

If you have kids using the headsets, they are not robust, ie the tripots cup can swivel 360 degrees and the wire will fall apart when this happens. However, the Bose X is very, very good when they work.

Just my experience after 7 years of use.

[Cross-eyed]

I've had the Bose X (high impedance) for over two years and wouldn't trade them for anything.

Also, regarding Bose as a company: I ordered the new battery pack/cord from Bose, which now is standard on the new X's (slim, automatic battery shutoff). They couldn't fill all the orders initially and after about 6 weeks, I received a box in the mail from Bose. It was a new QuietComfort stereo entertainment headset. Now I was really mad - this is not what I ordered - until I found the note in the box that said "sorry for the delay in your order, please accept this gift as our apology" or something of that sort. They gave me a free $200 headset (with ANR) because they were slow filling my $98 order. I was forever sold on the company.

[andyhelo]

I too have had my Bose Aviation X for 6 months now, and used them in 6 R22's and one R44, I had some problems in the R22's if they wern't used with other Bose headsets. Also, an aircraft had picked me up from an airport and obviously my headset wasnt compatible, so i wore the headset and switched on the ANR, what a difference!
Regarding the ability to hear bearing failures etc, the headsets, in my opinion, still allow you to hear all that is going on!

[delta3]

As most people in this discussion, I am very happy with the accoustical performance of the X's after 5 years of use in R44.

Reliability is however not so good. I had problems with ear-cushions of all of them, one had a broken support and all of them had broken plugs.
Bose does not allow you to fix that, so you end up with repairs that are close to the new price of a lesser model, so 'cost of ownership' is very high.

Delta3

[genocchio]

I have had both the Bose and DC's. My Bose headset work wonderfully for two years and then fell apart. I never had any problems flying the R22, Bell 47, Hughes 500, or the 300CB. I found that the cost for repairs was way too high so I bought a DC helicopter headset. The ENC in the DC for me works better, and I hear a lot more detail. They are also cheaper to repair, etc.

I spoke to a high time pilot/salesman and he said that different ENC headsets suit different peoples hearing.

So the best thing in my opinion is to go and try each headset and see which one you prefer.

[offshoreigor]

cholmondeley,

I have been using the BOSE X set for the past 6 months and it is superioir to any other NOISE REDUCTION headset out there. As for High or Low Impedence, that would depend on the A/C you are flying.

Someone mentioned that Low is only for Military A/C, not true. In our worldwide fleet (300+ aircraft) we are about 70% High and 30% Low impedence so check with your operator. Hi or Low does not affect in any way the performance of the headset.

Cheers,

:eek: OffshoreIgor :eek:

[EESDL]

Repairs to an early BOSE Aviation Series I/II awaiting arrival of plastic ear cup trim/clip! (pax use)
Been advised by avionics dept of resident engineers that BOSE has policy of not supporting out-of-warranty articles but there must be a source for such a part, second-hand anything?
They've informed me that if unable to source part then need to replace whole of headset!
Pull the other one 'cos i think it has bells on.
Any pointers would be much appreciated.

[Rotorbike]

Got that very same part sent out from Bose in the US last year.

They even sent it first and invoiced later.

[TipCap]

I have sent my headset back to HeadsetServices of Shoreham about 4 times for different problems and they have sorted it out every time. My headset is over 3 years old now and HeadsetServices have looked after it.

[Wizzard]

I'm considering buying an ANR headset and I'd be very interested in other pilots experience with performance versus cost etc.

Any information would be helpful, I've had a cruise around the interweb but now I'm even more confused - there's a lot of choice out there!

Wiz:ok:

[Outwest]

What type a/c are you going to be using the ANR in? I have a Bose X and am VERY happy with it. The ANR works great, but for me the light weight and comfort of the leather ear cups are as much a deciding factor as the ANR. I know DC and others make ANR, but they basically took one of their existing headsets and added ANR, so you still have the high weight and clamping force. Having said that, the Bose offers almost no passive noise reduction, so if the ANR is off, it will be noisy. Whereas the DC will still work as passive noise reduction if the batteries or headset fail.

[Flingwing207]

I own a set of Bose X, about 750 hours flying in them in turbines and piston, doors off, doors on, and I'm as happy as I was on day 1 (which is very happy). I use lithium batteries in them (I have the newer-style electronics) and get about 30 - 40 hours out of a set of batteries (and always carry a spare set in my kneeboard).

No question that without functional ANR, the Bose are barely functional, but once you push the little button, you will not find abetter place for your ears.

I have flown about 10 hours in Lightspeed 3Gs, and find them clunky and uncomfortable - nothing to recommend them. I have also used the DC 10-56HXL for an hour or two and it is as quiet as the Bose, but a lot heavier and with the aforementioned high clamping force. However, the DCs are as tough as nails, and do provide fairly good NR without the ANR functional - I would go that way if you are going to be in the jungle or something. I also got to test-fly a prototype Telex ANR set - excellent NR, but really heavy, and a somewhat arcane power system.

Anyway, hope this helps!

[Wizzard]

Thanks Guys - I'll start saving my pennies!:D

[krobar]

I've now read through all 13 pages of this thread, and I've checked out almost all the sets mentioned.
So far:

Bose X: Lot of fans, best noise cancelling, but still very expensive, with questions on durability,and virtualy no passive protection. 20 hours battery life. 12 ounces.

David Clark: 13HXL or 56HXL. Durable, but heavy. Good passive headset. Still pricey. 17-19 ounces.

Lightspeed 20XLc: 50 hours on 2 AA batteries. 15 ounces, but still bulky in size.

Pilot PA 1779XLTH: Apperently good on R22, but questionable on turbines. 45-60 hours on one charge of built in batteries. 14.8 ounces.


All in all, I'm considering either the Lightspeed, or DC option. On paper the Lightspeed looks really good, but I've had a DC before, and I tend to stick to something I know.

Please feel free to comment on which is better, cause I'm still deciding.

Kro

[belly tank]

May have already been covered here but ive got a Bose X , great with the doors on, take a rear door of in a jetanger say to do aerials and the noise cancelling drops in and out, and its very annoying...

not sure about money well spent but for normal ops doors on its brilliant. mine has a 40hr AA battery life, which is pretty close to those numbers when used all the time.

[The Nr Fairy]

So the Bose is the dog's bollocks, then ?

And has anyone found any electrical trickery which lets them work properly in an R22/R44 with other headset types ?

[Flingwing207]

My Bose work fine in the R44 with David Clarks in the other jacks. The R22 won't accept any two different make headsets as far as I've experienced - this isn't a Bose issue, it's an R22 issue.

If you're choosing between DC and Lightspeed, go DC - Lightspeed will not go the distance - they are inexpensive, and there's a reason.

[soggyboxers]

I have the same headset and using a Duracell battery I usually get around 20 hours in between battery changes.

[John Eacott]

The battery life seems to vary with the aircraft type: I suspect that the ENC must work harder in some types than others, thus draining the battery more quickly.

In the 206, it seems to cope quite well, and battery life is around 20 hours, but in the BK117 I only got about 10 hours or less. It seems to have trouble coping with the 4 blade beat, and takes some time to settle down after take off, with reversions during flight allowing the 4 per to come through.

We now have Bose X hard wired in the BK (10 of them ;) ), and the pilot's headset allows a lot of wind noise from the door and window seals, but at least I no longer have to swap batteries on a regular basis :p

[farsouth]

For comparison to the David Clarks, we use Bose headsets, run on 2 AAs and they last about 50 hours. It also switches itself off once ambient noise drops below engines running level, useful feature for saving battery life.
Best headset I have ever used, comfortable and quiet and if I changed company to somewhere that didn't provide headsets I would definitely buy one (despite the high cost).

[puntosaurus]

zxcvbn - sure it would. Turning up the noise means you have to turn up the anti-noise. You don't get owt for nowt !

[B Sousa]

Got a DC with the Nine volts, better than the one carrying 6 double As. Helicopter pilot can afford to carry extra batteries.
Bose are nice, but so is the price. No winners here unless you have a rich boss.

[Quick Release]

simple things like wearing caps and sunglasses etc that you may accept the fact that they sit under your ear seal, i wear wire frame sunnies like the Mako,s and have them clipped short to avoid them effecting the rear of the seal as well and nudge the cap up a little and found this doubled my batt life.
It was always recommended not to use rechargables but being a bit of a rouge i did, i use 250 MAH and get 3 days or more.

[18greens]

I use rechargeable 9vs in my 10-13xl in light aircraft and they only last 5-6 hours. Small planes must be as noisy as helicopters.

I'm pleased its not just mine that go flat so fast.

At least the DCs still work as passive headsets once the batteries go flat.

[Gomer Pylot]

Has anyone tried the lightweight in-ear headsets? Lightspeed and some others are marketing them, and are advertising 29dB noise reduction, which is better than the ANR headsets being sold. They use foam earplugs, which do have high NRR ratings, and don't require the clamping, sweat-inducing force of the typical headsets, freeing the pilot to wear whatever sunglasses he likes, and not requiring removal of the :mad: button on top of the cap. I like the concept, but I'm reluctant to spend the money without knowing more about the possible drawbacks. Any experiences would be welcome. :ok:

[krobar]

I've got the 13xl's and I use rechargeables. Get about 2 x 3hour sorties outta one battery in a 206. Always carry a spare battery, but the headset is still exceptionally good, even if the ANR isn't working.

[L'WAAPAM]

Hi All,

About to start a new job flying S76's and need to buy a nice new headset as i have been using helmets up till now.:ugh:

Firstly, are all 76's Low Impedance or do they vary across the fleet, also same question with the jack plugs are they US or UK NATO or other??

Secondly, For those who are flying/have flown the 76, do ANR headsets work well? do they interfere with the other guys headset? does the other pilot req ANR as well? Can you hear all you would like to hear? Do you need to go ANR or stay passive?

Thirdly, Do you recommend a particular type/manufacturer of headset. Just looked through past threads and it seems the BOSE headsets are a tad fragile but are great when working, The DC headsets are robust work well but weigh alot. Any other makes people have used?

Does anyone have experience with the DC's? I saw one that was switchable from low/high impedance. Is this standard/optional/after market.

Any advice, thoughts, reccommendations would be appreciated before I go and commit a load of wonga!!!!:confused:

Cheers

L' :ok:

[SASless]

Call yer new job's Greenie...find out about the plugs...impedance...and buy yerself a topline Davd Clark and forget about the Bose...too flimsy...Peltor's too cheaply built. If you buy the helicopter pilot switchable impedance headset it will work with either high or low impedance. You can buy adaptor plugs that will convert Nato to civvie.

DC's are the standard by which headsets are judged....buy one and it will last you a lifetime.

Forget the ANR routine...they seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

One man's opinion.

[malabo]

I'm with SASless, ask your greenie (avionics tech if you are new to this).

Personally, I like the Bose ANR and think they work great, but have used the DC for years and even tried the Peltor (North Sea Specials) that the Scandinavians are keen on - probably for the same reason they like Saabs and Volvos. On an ambulance job where you fly 10 hours a month I wouldn't bother with ANR, but if you're putting in 4-6 hour days I wouldn't be without them. Old S76's tend to be low impedance unless modified in a refit, everything new like a C+ or an S92 uses high-impendence. A reputable employer will offer to replace your microphone on your personal headset if it doesn't match the impedance. The US plug is standard, unless some dufus has changed it. Most new generation avionics, such as AVAD, EGPWS systems etc are all high impedance, making it a PIA for the avionic guys to keep everything working for some luddite's low impedance headset.


malabo

[Blessed Pilot]

Hi, Standard David Clark 10-60 works great for me! Very durable headset.
Cheers:ok:

[Geoff Williams]

Choice of headset is a bit like which car do you like, a very much personal thing. We have both Bose and the DC ANR sets and whilst I prefer the Bose there are good and bad points for each type.
As for 76's, they come as a low impedance mic audio system and let me say, our new C+ have the standard audio boxes fitted and they have the worst speech circuitry I have ever heard on an aircraft. The setup of audio levels between receive audio, sidetone and ICS will make or break a audio system so the greenies (English term for avionics guru guy, comes from their Navy I think) need to get that right to make it work.

DC ANR - a little too heavy for me after a long day in the seat. I have used a number of different models including the lighter weight H10s that broke attaching parts and the like. The current 'hard' plastic type is more robust. The DC does have better passive noise attenuation than the Bose by its ear cup design and clamp force.

The Bose is very comfortable to wear I find. The later version has a much better battery/controller design than the previous model however, the volume control knobs that are mounted on both sides are easily knocked. This I fixed with an elastic garter consisting of some dressmaking elastic about an inch wide stitched in a circle of a suitable diameter to slip over the controller and over the volume knobs. Works a treat.

ANR as against non ANR - for me never again. Noise is a significant fatigue factor and whilst the expense of ANR to passive is not insignificant, your hearing will deteriorate with repeated exposure to noise over time. And anything that reduces that exposure is a good think me thinks. The comprehension of radio traffic is also greatly enhanced, particularly if you have to fly in an airspace system like that in Nigeria.:ugh:

Low versus Hi impedance – The disadvantage of the Bose is that you either have to order the low or the hi Z mic assembly. The mic assembly includes the controller that also houses the batteries on the non-aircraft powered models. To have both hi and low Z systems covered therefore can be at a cost. However, if you purchase a lo Z mic assemble, there are after market adapters, some box types like the Carter, or inline types which will convert your lo to a high when plugged into a hi Z system. These adapters use the mic volts in the aircraft’s mic circuit to power a little amplifier. If you purchase a hi Z mic assembly, you still can by an adapter for Hi to lo but it will require its own power source (a battery) to operate, all a bit messy. The DC doesn’t have this problem as it has a hi/lo switch.
Cost – Both makes more expensive, Bose more expensive than the DC. My experience with the after sales service of both companies is excellent. One of our guys had a problem with his new DC, it was replaced immediately without fuss. Similarly, my newer Bose had a problem, was replaced immediately.

My view, ANR is a worthy investment and very much a personal choice of type. If you can, borrow one of each type to try before you buy.

Geoff

[Brilliant Stuff]

Well I have just got used to having a helmet but when I had to go without the helmet+ANR for a couple of duties and return to a normal DC headset I have to say I was horified by all that extra noise which was making my life a misery.

Therefore my suggestion is go for the ANR, you can concentrate much better on the job at hand.

[CHOPPER74]

I have had a Bose Head Set now for 12 months and have had to send it back as of a funny buzzing noise in the right side and a on and off clicking sound in the left occasionally. I love wearing it for the comfort and weight compared to the David Clark. Has anyone had one of these for a long period of time and not had trouble with it. Would there be any problems with leaving it in the machine while hangered or should i take it out all together. Comments would be appreciated. Thanks Chopper 74

[Flingwing207]

I've got about 1200 hours on my Bose, mostly rattling around in S300s, but some time in JRs, as well as a variety of planks (even once in a B757 where I was at the nexus of a lot of noise - that got some strange looks). Mine were the old-style (9V battery), at about 200 hours I purchased the upgrade to the new style controls, which replaced the mike, cables, and control box, so 900 or so hours on the current setup.

I've had zero problems with the Bose. I generally do not leave them in the aircraft - if I do, I make sure they are out of the sun. Doors-off, winter cold (-25C) summer hot (35C), no issues as long as I have the headstrap adjusted well - if it is too "big", turning my head lets excess noise in and freaks out the ANR. I also usually don't wear glasses, although when I do, it's fine.

[L'WAAPAM]

Thanks Guys

Think I will try and use both first. However am leaning towards DC's for strength + passive protection.

Cheers

L'

[NNB]

for my 2 cents worth - David Clarke H10-40's are the best of the lot. Mine have given me 20 years of faithfull service and I don't work for the company or sell them.:ok:

[rotor67]

DC H10-60 bought new in 91', and the quality is still great. Best "Present" I ever bought for myself! Buy an extra pair of cotton pads that go over the ear seals. Good luck with the new job. :ok:

[well_slung]

Hey CHOPPER74,
I know of a bose set with the same crackling problem. When you sent them back did they replace or repair? I'm suspecting a fatigue crack in the wire where it runs throught the clamp above the earpiece.

L'WAAPAM,
I have used both the bose and the DC. On a big day I must say the bose wins hands down, it's a lot lighter and more comfortable. Yes the DC's are more robust but why don't you just take a little care when handling them? Carry a spare set of batteries and you needn't worry about the benefits of passive noise reduction. There are things that could use a little improvement on the bose such as a better latch to set the length and more gentle cable clips along the headband but overall I reckon the bose is a much better bet.

Happy flying whatever you choose!

[CHOPPER74]

They ended replacing the headset which was good. The noise sounded like you had a mosquito in there and was very annoying, i ended up turning the ANR off most of the time then untill i could send them away. If i turned my head a bit the noise level would decrease. Batteries definately dont last 50 hrs either, around 25 to 30 me thinks. Other than that a great headset.

[Fatigue]

Hi gents,

While we are on the subject of headsets, does anyone use or know if the PILOT 17-79DNC XL ANR headsets are any good as they seem to be a lot cheaper than the Bose and DC (289 Quid)...and they have the rechargable battery pack within the headset itself so no long dangly wires!!!!

Anybody use Sennheiser brand as well!!!


Anybody have any info?

P.S. Also to be used in the S76..

Many thanks,

Fatigue.

[22clipper]

Are we allowed to buy & sell here? I'm an oldie going slowly deaf & had to buy a Bose headset just so I can understand ATC. So my Gentex helmet (with less sophisticated ANR inserts) is avaliable if someone want s to make an offer?

[cl12pv2s]

Not sure what has been said already, but...

Currently using the DC H10-56 in the S76C+. With ANR, it is a great headset. Durable, and good ANR. Yes, its heavier than the Bose, but I have a strong neck so I don't actually notice the weight!! Passive noise reduction is good as well. You could fly a shift without your ANR with this headset. I've heard the Bose passive NR is not good at all (but have never tried it).

I have the old 9V battery box. I've never actually checked how long the battery lasts...don't really want / need to know.

cl12pv2s

[malabo]

Re: Passive vs Active noise reduction. Yes, the DC ANR has good passive, that is because it is a passive designed system converted to ANR. The Bose doesn't because it was designed as an ANR system from a fresh sheet of paper. I don't know why anyone would care if an ANR system had good passive or not - its like buying a car based on whether it is still easy to drive when the power steering quits working. The newer AA powered Bose lasts for about 40 hours and the indicator gives lots of warning when the batteries run down. The things that a passive system needs in order to work - heavier noise insulated ear cups, good cup-skin seals, sufficient clamping force for the cups to seal against your head - all add up to the discomfort and disadvantages of a passive system. You can leave all those behind when you go to a purpose built ANR like the BOSE.

I own and use both DC passive (high and low impedance), and Bose ANR (with both high and low impedance microphones). I prefer the Bose: lighter than a DC, far less clamping force, more comfortable ear seals (not really sealing anything). When you poke a set of sunglasses on, the lighter clamping force makes it more comfortable than the DC's and the ANR still keeps the noise down. Anybody flying without sunglasses, especially offshore, may as well start planning now for cataract surgery.

malabo

[GLSNightPilot]

I've used David Clarks for years, but I recently bought lightweight in-the-ear model from ANR-Headsets.com. They use foam earplugs, no heavy domes over the ears. I really like them, and they're much quieter than any headset I've tried, ANR or passive. They have a NRR of 30, and are very comfortable. I can barely hear the blade noise, and the wind noise at 145 kts is just a faint hiss. The mike really kills noise, and the usual S76 hum in the background is gone. Several people have remarked on how clear I sound.

Finally I don't have to take off the button on top of my cap, I can wear any sunglasses I like, and don't have the hot, heavy earseals clamping my head. Clarity Aloft has a nice-looking model, but at almost twice the price, I decided against it. Now my headset can fit in my pocket.

I'm not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or resellers in any way, except as a paying customer. There are several models available, and I think all would be acceptable.

[mortennb]

Hi.

I just bought a used Bose headset, single plug and have some difficulties.

I dont know if it has a broken mic or if there is something else.
I have talked to Bose techincal support who told me that there might be a different mic witch does not work in the aircraft I am flying. (dynamic, electric)
Than I talked to the local aviation store who sells Bose headsets, and they said it should not make any difference if you have a dynamic mic or if you have a electric one.

The guy I bought it from used it on a B206, and I am flying R-22.
I checked with 2 of my friends who has Bose as well. And the microphone does not look the same. Can anyone help me?
This is a pic from the headset I have.
http://morten-bjerkeli.com/images/bose.JPG

And here's one from the Bose website.

http://morten-bjerkeli.com/images/bose2.jpg

Can someone tell me what kind of microphone I have, or why they look different?

[22clipper]

Moving from a 206 to an R22 shouldn't cause a problem with mic impedances, you could verify this by trying the headset in another 206 if that's possible. There are some configuration dip switches for the Bose in the battery compartment but I forget if they relate to the microphone or not on your model, you could maybe check with the owners manual?

[charron]

The microphone on a Bose is replaced as a unit with the cord and control box by removing the two screws at the base. The high impedance mike is smaller and has a profile like the end of an ironing board. The low impedance mike has a profile like a light bulb. If you attach a photo of your mike without the foamy end cover we'd be able to tell.

Most 206 are high-impedance, all R22 are.

[mortennb]

The microphone on a Bose is replaced as a unit with the cord and control box by removing the two screws at the base. The high impedance mike is smaller and has a profile like the end of an ironing board. The low impedance mike has a profile like a light bulb. If you attach a photo of your mike without the foamy end cover we'd be able to tell.

Most 206 are high-impedance, all R22 are.


http://morten-bjerkeli.com/images/div.jpg

[charron]

You have a low-impedance microphone. The headset audio will work fine, but nobody will hear you talk in a high-impedance R22 intercom.

Lots of older helicopters such as the Bell mediums and Sikorsky S76A models that haven't been rewired still use low impedance. I think that many Europeans are still stuck on it too. You may be able to trade with someone.

[mortennb]

You have a low-impedance microphone. The headset audio will work fine, but nobody will hear you talk in a high-impedance R22 intercom.

Lots of older helicopters such as the Bell mediums and Sikorsky S76A models that haven't been rewired still use low impedance. I think that many Europeans are still stuck on it too. You may be able to trade with someone.

If trade is not an option, what do i need to buy from Bose to make it work than?

[i4iq]

You could try one of these!

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=headsetx_headset_index&linksource=centernav_img_pilots&ck=0

[Limumark]

I am a student pilot getting ready to invest in my first helicopter headset and wondered if I could get some advise on what is a good choice in headsets with Active Noise Reduction. I have tried and love the Bose but have no experience with the Senn's. Can anyone help me?

Thanks

Limumark:hmm:

[Cross-eyed]

Sorry, haven't tried the Senns either, but the BoseX has ruined me from getting back into my helmet, even though they're not much protection for my little pinhead.

[The Governor]

Anybody know where to get a Peltor headset comfort pad. I have seen one on Transair but ideally I was looking for the sheepskin type. I know there is a David Clark model but will it fit the Peltor?

Any help gratefully received.

[Flingwing207]

Try these guys: Oregon Aero (http://www.oregonaero.com/)

[flying shrink]

linumark

I am kind of in the same situation. Did lots of research and talked to lots of people. The only thing I am sure of now is that people have there own preferences. For myself, because I fly R22 and R44 at the moment, I need an ANR headset with good passive protection too. Some of the R22's don't seem to accommodate ANR headsets. For that reason I bought the Sennheiser 372, which can also be used as a passive headset (25 db). It is for this reason that I don't like the Bose. I used them twice and walked away with painful ears, because it does not provide me with any passive protection. Others swear by the DC's and they are good, but I personally like the Sennheiser, specifically the new sennheisers. if you are tall, like me, the R22 will not give you enough headspace with the DC's (David Clarke).

My thougths only.

FS

[GLSNightPilot]

Personally, I prefer the lightweight, in-the-ear headsets. They give more noise suppression than ANR headsets, and let me wear any cap and sunglasses I like, without the weight and heat of the domes, and they are cheaper than most ANR headsets. I wore regular dome headsets for a quarter of a century, and these are far better. There are at least 3 brands available - AuriComm, Clarity Aloft, and Lightspeed, and perhaps more. Google will give you the websites, and most retailers offer a 30-day money back guarantee, as do the manufacturers. My heavy headset is now in a bag in the closet, and is likely to remain there. :ok:

[flying shrink]

GLS Nightpilot

I am intrigued by these headsets you mentioned but unfortunately have not yet had the chance to test them. We can get the clarity aloft in the UK but far away from where I am, though. But will definately try them out when I get my hands on them. I was told that the clarity aloft will definately work on small helicopters too (connection type). Do they become any more uncomfortable when wearing on hot humid days than the conventional headsets?

FS

[GLSNightPilot]

it doesn't get much more hot & humid than the GOM. That's where they really shine. I used to get skin infections around my ears from my headset, worn for hours on hot days, with the sweating that goes with it, trapped inside the domes. I have had no problems so far with my current headset, which is an AuriComm, BTW. It's almost half the price of the Clarity Aloft, and the main difference I see is the lack of cell phone or mp3 input, which is not at all important to me. They have a headset very similar to the Clarity Aloft. You should be able to order direct, or from one of the online dealers, regardless of which you choose. All offer a money-back guarantee.

[Capt Hollywood]

I have a full set of Bose headsets in my heli. They are a great headset when they are working but unfortunately I have found they aren't very robust. One good knock or drop seems to cause wiring breakages or internal plug disconnections. No experience with the Sennheiser headsets.

Cheers,

CH :cool:

[Flingwing207]

Never even seen the Senn's, used Bose for the past four years - 100% satisfied. Compared to any other headset I've used (many DC, Peltor, Telex, Lightspeed, Sigtronics) the Bose gives you the great hearing and microphone clarity no matter how noisy the intercom.

[Felipe]

I have been looking for information on a flight helmed with a bose system
I do not know if it exist in the market.
Any information is apreciated.
Thanks
Felipe

[B Sousa]

If anyone would know. Why dont you contact these folks.

http://www.bose.com/

[topendtorque]

Seems absolutely amazing just how many people come on here and do one of three things,
1) the same q this bloke did

2) where can I learn to fly and who will give me a job

3) respond hotly to the last statement made on any particular subject without going maybe just three or four entries back, let alone a page or two.

I must be missing something but isn't either a potential or licenced helo pilot supposed to be observant - and resourceful???

good job they use a nom-de-plume as their names would be recorded for their posterity (not) by many.

I know some other forums have those spoon-feeding topics up close at the beginning but I think it is belittling of everyone to have to do that. Must be frustrating to the moderators from time to time.

Enthusiasm is different, easily noticed by other traits and applauded by me anyways.

[topendtorque]

I must be missing something but isn't either a potential or licenced helo pilot supposed to be observant - and resourceful???

I know some other forums have those spoon-feeding topics up close at the beginning but I think it is belittling of everyone to have to do that. Must be frustrating to the moderators from time to time.

Enthusiasm is different, easily noticed by other traits and applauded by me anyways.

Our moderator is obviously 1)observant 2) resourceful 3) not at all belittling - as per the excellent sticky - and 4) enthusiastic.

He has also had the last laugh on me for sure where the OZZIE GUIDE TO STATES is posted by that clown Ned, a Kiwi.

[Airflowreversal_1]

I am thinking about using the Clarity Aloft headset in the S76 (offshore) has anybody got any experience with this? And does it supress the noice enough (S76 is pretty loud in the offshore configuration)?

[GLSNightPilot]

I'm using AuriComms in the S76, and they're pretty similar to the Clarity Aloft; they use disposable foam earplugs which are very similar. I don't like the included earplugs, but it's easy enough to make your own from standard earplugs. I've used several brands, but prefer the Howard Leight Laser Lights. I use some plastic tubing, pushed through the plug, to attach to the headset. IME these provide much better noise suppression than either passive or ENC standard dome headsets. The Laser Lights advertise a NRR of 32, and much better at higher frequencies. I've used them while standing outside the S76 and Bell 412, loading pax and baggage and other stuff, and they work very well. I love the lightweight headset, because my ears don't sweat and break out from the heat and sweat, I can use any sunglasses I want, and I don't have to remove the button from my cap. Even after a long day they're comfortable. I don't expect to ever go back to dome headsets.

Quiet Technologies, which manufactures the AuriComm, has a model very similar to the Clarity Aloft, which I didn't see before I bought the Auri 2.5, and the main differences I see from the Clarity Aloft are that it doesn't have a cell phone/mp3 input, and is about half the price.

[787FOCAL]

I am looking for feedback from pilots on current noise cancellation headsets.

What are your gripes?
Prefer battery operated or hard wired?

Thanks

[Trogdor]

I use the Bose headset. I recently got it and I love it. It is by far the most comfortable headset I have ever worn.

Good: Light weight, comfortable, noise cancellation works great.

Bad: Offers zero protection when the batteries die (just keep extras on hand), have to wear thin sunglasses or wear sunglasses at weird angle in an effort not to break the seal around your ears.

[F4F]

Sennheisers at work, Bose private; when only the best will suffice, protecting your hearing is not a matter of price :ok:

[Toohey29]

I too am just about to purchase my first headset - i was going to go down the DC h10-56hxl but having seen this thread and done some research i am not so sure now :sad: .
Hearing protection is of vital importance to me as i have one ear close to the limit already. Are there any comparisons anywhere between the DC's/ Bose style headsets and the in ear systems?
Disregarding price what are peoples opinions on the best system on the market for helicopters?
Has anyone experience of the lightspeed in ear system?

I want to get this right from the off, so you guys with the years of experience whats your thoughts?

...:uhoh: .....

[Gomer Pylot]

All the headsets will have an overall NRR (Noise Reduction Rating, bigger numbers are better) and most should have a dB reduction rating for various frequencies. Check the websites and/or mfr's specs, and see the numbers for yourself. The in-ear headsets have the highest overall numbers I've seen, and are far better for higher frequencies. All these numbers depend on a proper fit for the headset, of course.