Stealth VC10

[Skeleton]

I know we are short of cash but a stealth VC10 instead of a B1B..... come on :)



http://www.arcforums.com/forums/uploads/post-15-1115924748.jpg:}

[FJJP]

...and the thinking behind this is?

[or is it blindingly obvious?]

[Razor61]

It was reported leaving Cambridge (Marshalls) like this with parts of the wing still in the usual 'primer' colour.

It was also said that this could be a new type of Primer before it is painted 'grey'.

Edit: Sorry, the link is advertising. PPP

[Onan the Clumsy]

:confused:

I just see a hangar, some tarmac and a few posts in the foreground. Am I missing something?

[Darth Nigel]

I'm hoping that it is a newer version of Funbus Mk1 (http://www.designboom.com/portrait/playboy/33.jpg) -- t'would be appropriate!

[joe2812]

Think how many bunnies you'd get in there! :E

[Art Field]

If it is a primer it is interesting to note that the roundals and tail markings are already on. No Tanker markings though.

[Razor61]

I noticed the roundels too, but was only going by what was said on the site i put up.

Can only think of two other things and they are Hi-Vis trial or painted black for the same reason the Typhoon was.... but then i can't think why a VC-10 would be doing either.

[BEagle]

National markings are a legal obligation, tanker markings aren't. Whenever we flew partly painted a/c in primer (or even in bare metal) after air tests to whichever was the latest cheapo place the gingerbeers had discovered for the 'real' repaint, roundels and registrations were applied.

I'm not sure, Art F, but were the a/c still repainted at StAthan/Brize/Abingdon when you left the fleet - or at Shat o' Roo?

Without the tanker markings, there were definite F700 restrictions on AAR.

This colour is a special purpose undercoat over which the normal John Major Grey will be applied, as far as I'm aware. I'm surprised to see it flying in that state though - unless KwintyKwoo are off to Las Vegas for more spurious 'hot weather trials', the Gulf not being quite hot enough for them at this time of year......??

[Anita Bush]

The black paint absorbs heat and makes the coal tar stored in the wings easier to burn.;)

[Navaleye]

Looks good though! I hope she looks as good on the inside as she does outside. I never got to fly in a VC10 and I wish I could.

[L1011GE]

Stealth or not we will hear it coming... then never see it leave (prob u/s)

[Skeleton]

Beagle are you saying you can't fly an military aircraft unless it has markings on it?

I never knew that.

I assumed it was just primer until I saw the markings, which is why I posted the pic... im intrigued.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Skeleton in an earlier thread, Fishead had this to say
From the "Rules concerning the Control of Wireless Telegraphy in Time of War and Air Warfare. "

Part II, Chapter 1, Article 3 states:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art. 3. A military aircraft must carry an exterior mark indicating its nationality and its military character.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



further articles go on to say:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art. 7. The exterior marks required by the above articles shall be affixed in such manner as to make it impossible for them to be altered during flight. They shall be as large as possible and shall be visible from above, from below and from either side.


Art. 8. The exterior marks required by the regulations in force in each State shall be brought without delay to the knowledge of all the other Powers.
Modifications made in time of peace in the regulations requiring exterior marks shall be brought to the knowledge of all the other Powers before being put in force.
Modifications made in such regulations at the outbreak or in course of hostilities shall be brought by each Power to the knowledge of all the other Powers as soon as possible and at the latest when they are communicated to its fighting forces.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Link to ICRC document

This comes under the definition of 'Hague Law' and so is 'Customary International Law', rather than being codifed...

[Skeleton]

Cheers Onan. Bit of an expense if there only on for a short while.

[Brain Potter]

L1011 GE

Perhaps if you paint your TriStars black we can then have a pot-to-kettle name calling contest about serviceability. ;)

[Art Field]

Beags, picked up the first from Chateauroooo, lots of vino but the crew had to abstain, hangers on drank ours as well. I think the Frogs hoped we would not notice the flaws. Giving myself slap for spelling, roundals indeed.

[MrBernoulli]

Could it be anything to do with the hot weather trials for the new freon substitute in the aircon packs? You know, lets REALLY get the aircraft interior hot and confirm that the aircon is sh1te whether its got freon, something else or nothing at all in it!

[BEagle]

Not a problem in your nice 777, Mr B!

[bluetail]

The black will be a Primer, and it is not an uncommon maintenance task.

Nimrod '36 was painted in its trial Grey scheme from 1998 as part of the MRA 4 programme, I took her to Farnboro' that year

I digress

I have seen a pikky taken in the BA Paint shop at Heathrow,
36 was one of the last jets BA painted for the RAF and the aircraft was definately in Black Primer, it too looked pretty cool.

Not bad for the Funbus fleet though taking 7 years to catch up with the Kipper Fleet.

[John Eacott]

The new Lynx come through the factory at Westland in the same black primer: looked better than the final paint job, IMHO ;) :ok:

[L1011GE]

Perhaps if you paint your TriStars black we can then have a pot-to-kettle name calling contest about serviceability


soon to be grey old chap

[pigsinspace]

from where I stand Brain Potter the once mighty VC10 seems to be U/S a lot more than The Tristar..

Any official figures anyone?

[buoy15]

Black aeroplanes are much more visible than shiney white ones!

Bluetail
I can't remember XV236 ever being black?. Need to see the piccy.

IIRC, the standard aluminium etching primer has always been, and still is, a lime/yellow colour.

Is black the new PC option?

[ORAC]

Black? very non-PC. I believe the correct term is "Jet". :p

[bluetail]

Buoy 15

Check your PM,s

36 never came out of the shed at Heathrow and was certainly never at ISK like it,

In those days we flew them down to LHR paint stripped and BA did the rest, primed painted the lot, in the case of 36 because it was to be grey, it was primed in black instead of the standard yellow(ish)

BT

[Nopax,thanx]

AFAIK it's IR 'absorbing' primer, been used for quite a while on MOD aircraft.....

...interesting "Rules concerning the Control of Wireless Telegraphy in Time of War and Air Warfare. " quote, I wonder if the American military have bothered to read it, bearing in mind the large number of anonymous aircraft that they have flown in and out of various trouble spots over the years...
:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

International Law....

American militiary....

You are joking, aren't you?

[Onan the Clumsy]

That's assuming the rules actually apply to them of course :p

[Gainesy]

I believe the correct term is "Jet".

Nearly ORAC, its four-jet. :)

[Brain Potter]

No doubt that the Tri* is more reliable than the old girl, but I doubt that there is huge difference. There have certainly been a few VC10 rescues of Tristar tasks (Pax and AAR) over the last few weeks. Had a pleasant nightstop in St Johns on one of them. :D

The black paint is not primer. The jets are majored in yellow/green etching primer. The black is put on before the grey to reduce IR signature.

[StopStart]

Brain, never had you down as a paint geek old man ;)

[Brain Potter]

Oh yes,

Duck Egg Blue, Slate Grey, Olive Green, Dark Earth Brown, Gunmetal, Post Office Red....all the Humbrol Classics. I'm sure there was a "fleshy pink" something. Fnarr Fnarr. :O

[StopStart]

Hmmm, Mid Stone and Khaki Drill were personal favourites of mine but you're right, you can't beat Flesh :p

[teeteringhead]

parts of the wing still in the usual 'primer' colour.
A bit more than that....what the picture doesn't show is that the entire starboard wing is in green/yellow, while the rest is in .... err ... jet.

Currently airtesting at Saints, looking quite :yuk: when it gets airborne....

[PhilM]

Aye, was gunna post that it's at St Athan currently, bloody thing woke me up :{, been flying round all morning between Saints and Cardiff Airport......looks cool tho ;)

[Art Field]

The prototype of the Mk2 Valiant was all black back in the early 60's and right evil it looked too. It was designed specifically for low level but we did not buy it because the V force would never be required to go low level would they !!!!!!!!.

[Gainesy]

Hey Art,
Hows about a Valiant thread then?

[BEagle]

I was told by an old Vickers hand that the Valaint Mk2 was known as the Bombardier - and went like a greased weasel at low level!

Gaydon must have been a very pleasant little spot indeed for the Valiant OCU.

Gizza few tales, Art Field! You're probably one of the very few people around who have mastered both the Valiant and the Personal Computer!

[grobace]

The real paint anoraks will know that the correct name for the shade of grey used is not John Major (it's more subtle than that, BEagle) but Barley Grey, named after the Farnborough boffin that invented it.

[BEagle]

Whilst the F-4 had various shades of Barley Grey, that pre-dated the FunBus grey by 16 years....

Never heard anyone call it Barley Grey - and we hated the original grey withthe pansy 'blue vein' and white lettering scheme as applied to ZA149! I picked it up in July 1994 from Boscombe after 'les Girls' had brought it back from its heat soaking trials - a thinly disguised holiday in Lost Wages for them, we thought.

It was then found to be still full of boffin wiring which hadn't been added to the weight and balance schedule, so didn't fly again for a while until Boscombe sorted out their paperwork.

And yes, I did christen it 'John Major grey' at the time!

[vicky10]

Its a C1K XR 808

[BEagle]

Why Marshall's cockup?

Pray tell......

[SASless]

Beagle dear boy...

Markings are optional for flight....I can assure you the birds fly nicely without marking one on them. Don't ask when, where, or why we did that.....just assume it was in someplace we were not at....doing things we did not do.

;)

[BEagle]

I can well believe that Uncle Spam flew (and still flies) unmarked a/c in clear contravention of International Law.....whilst roaming the world as they please killing whoever it suits them to 'in defense of freedom, God, Mom, apple pie and the American way'?

[6foottanker]

Nearly, vicky, it's 807, and I left it at Filton on 26th, for its proper paint job...oh no, wait, it's getting kicked out after 2 weeks to make way for a Virgin jet...bugger. Lowest bidder strikes again!:\

[SASless]

Beagle....do you still believe in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, and the good will of all mankind? Surely, you cannot be so naive as to believe flying without markings...or false markings makes a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things?

I am sure the Thundering Herds run around in uniform all the time....operational requirements dictate the style and mode of dress, uniform, badges, markings, and flags flown by military units doing operational taskings.

The Oppos do not wear uniforms, badges of rank, unit crests.....and certainly do not give one bit concern to the legalities of war as set forth by the Geneva Accords.

So why would you allow yourself to get your knickers in a twist over unmarked aircraft flying around? Could it be if they cannot get the markings on....they might use improper RT procedures?

You reckon all the space vehicles in the sky are for scientific purposes....including the ones billed as being scientific in nature? Wonder what kinds of pic's the Hubbell sent back when not looking away from Earth? That certainly did not have military markings on it.

[dessert_flyer]

I believe the reason for the jet colour was to do with a cock up with the two different coats of paint and a bit too much "metal" in one of them causing a reaction and the resulting colour. As for why its not being sorted out as yet, the contracter only rents marshals hanger space and when its time was up its time was up, and had to go. Who is going to pay for this fiasco? still ongoing.

[DaveyBoy]

Wonder what kinds of pic's the Hubbell sent back when not looking away from Earth?
Pretty blurry ones, I should imagine. Hubble's groundspeed is about 7 km/s, the shortest exposure time of any HST instrument is 0.1s, and the flywheels it uses to rotate would take forever to make it turn fast enough to keep one bit of the surface in sight :-)