Life Without Rearcrew Leaders

[ProfessionalStudent]

It would seem that Commissioned Rearcrew Leaders are quickly becoming a thing of the past. A few dits for discussion...

a. Is it working, MACR as Rearcrew Leaders?
b. Do you see the wheel being re-invented in 5years?

ProStu

PS
I'm not from PMA and I'm not anything to do with Rearcrew (any more...);)

[Yozzer]

a) NO

b) NO

A resurection of Masters Mafia that had all but died; YES.

Bad days ahead for Junior Joes: How long will it be before "You havnt been here long enough to have an opinion" rears its ugly head again.

[ProfessionalStudent]

So Yoz, why isn't it working?

Aren't the MACR able to best represent the boys at Sqn Execs, and fight the NCA corner? Feel that the front-enders are ill-equipped to deal with NCA career issues?

I feel strongly about the issues surrounding the loss of Commissioned Rearcrew and would love to know the feeling on the shop floor... I think NCA have been sold up the swannie and left with less representation and a narrower career path.

I never think there'll be a shortage of guys wanting to join as NCA (although the recent "rationalisation" of the recruitment and trg system may put paid to that argument) but I do think that those wanting a career will be forced to leave the flying branches earlier to commission etc. Some will be selected to be pilots, thus keeping the experience in the air, but far more will, IMOH, opinion end up as Ops Spt (Flt Ops or ATC) or other blunty branches less relevent, thus adding to the already worrying dilution problem...

Pro Stu

[Yozzer]

Your concerns are all valid and already exist. The NCA being recruited have always been motivated and intelligent but more than ever there are University Degree qualified students entering NCA now. The removal of a Commission within ones own trade is a major blow and these soon to be 2nd tourists will migrate to other branches maintaining the present situation of NCA being a pool of motivated individuals for IOT to head hunt from. I am cynical enough to believe that this suits PMA.

I now have experience of "leadership" by passive consultation, and looking after ones own. Even with a bad leader under the old system (and I have had one of them) that meant one selfish dick, nowadays it means several.

Like many things in UK Defence plc, removal of Commisioned rearcrew was and is a retrograde step of military ethos to satisfy purse strings of government. IMHO the only person to benefit is Flt Cdrs and Wg Cdrs who find putting the "Leader" back in his box somewhat easiier these days.

Its not all good news for the commisioned types though, for I also believe that they were partly to blame for their own downfall. Some of the latter individuals could not hold their commision with any integrity at all, and whilst that is OASCs fault, they had to live with it.

Now to QR999............

[Door Slider]

Still have a Commissioned Leader on my Sqn but the other Sqn on base has not, they say it does not work.

Fingers crossed the wheel will be re-invented, i'm not interested in doing it myself but it is good for the branch.

The decision to abolish commissioned rear crew was financially based. Rotary Sqns have a Crewman Leader and maybe the Sqn 2ic as commissioned rear crew. Why is it there seems to be a massive number of commissioned Aeops and Air Eng?? They also seem to be very top heavy on FS and MACR in comparison with Rotary ALMs

[500days2do]

Same sh*t ,different day.

Vote with your feet.....

[Anita Bush]

:confused:
I don't understand.
Who would you rather manage you on a day to day basis?

Would you rather have someone commissioned looking after his own career path (especially so during the last couple of years) as well as those under him....
or someone non-commissioned who has reached the top of his/her tree, with nothing to prove to his superiors?

As for financially motivated, how do you reconcile that the better more experienced MACR will migrate onto the PA spine and therefore getting roughly the same pay as their commissioned friends?

Dare I say that I think that the days of the Grumpy Old Gits are numbered. There are plenty of younger MACR who would kill for the opportunity to do a better job than the Old Gits of old.


Edited for spelling

[Facingrear]

Nobody has addressed the question of what you do with a 45 year old MACR rear crew ldr, having just completed his 3 year tour as an empowered Master. The desk officer, who could well be a fellow MACR himself, now has to find a suitable position to post this individual, who has just spent the past three years at all Sqn Exec meetings, writing ACRs on his 22-26 rearcrew colleagues, giving marriage guidance, maintaining his own flying cat and taking the odd finger poking in the Sgts Mess on a Friday night. Do you reward this loyalty with a posting to a new aircraft type which entails all the usual LCR/CR pecking order new guy on the street etc, do you keep him in post frustrating any fellow MACRs who might want a bite at the cherry or does he then slip back onto the Sqn as a gash shag while his Dpty takes over and the tables are turned. We also need to bear in mind that the majority, if not all, will be on the PA spine, which entails, as I seem to remember reading, " that you will remain in a flying related position til age 55". I can see there will be few out of area tours heading that way in places that have always been difficult in filling with Commissioned volunteers.

[Anita Bush]

Easy

Back to the front line as gash shag (3 years)*

Instructional tour (if suitably qualified)*
or
Standards*
or
Rearcrew leader (3 years)*
or
Desk Officer (3 years)*

Front line gash shag to finish off including CMC (3 years)*



(* swap as required)

At the end of the day you only have to worry about this fellow for three tours. The easy option would be to put a bar in for promotion to MACR in that you must be a suitably qualified instructor. Immediately you increase the number of supervisory slots available to the individual whilst giving the RAF something they need. It depends on how much you want that promotion and also what the individual thinks is the 'top of his tree' or aspiration.
It might be that he has an interest in going and joining the 'collective' at Innsworth as a desk officer or something else. Build the individual up to do that job.
Any other suggestions for jobs for MACR?

[Tiger_mate]

"The easy option would be to put a bar in for promotion to MACR in that you must be a suitably qualified instructor."

Dont go there!

It is the student that is important not the career plan of the MACR. To have instructors with sole intent of a career is not good for students and therefore not good for the system. There was a risk of this with the prospect of a payrise post CFS which happily didnt happen.

You must want to teach, not "have" to.

[Anita Bush]

I thought that it was CFS who boarded suitable candidates - not the desk officers.
Surely you are not implying that CFS cannot do their job in selecting/training suitable candidates for instructors?

[buoy15]

Anita, Sweetheart

I did 2 tours as a standards checker; on both ocassions I was selected by my performance, experience, reports, boss and desk officer.

Sod all to do with CFS

BY the way, who or where, is CFS?

[Anita Bush]

I take it that as a standards checker you mean GSU or similar, not just a squadron checker. All our standards and trainers guys and girls are overseen by CFS - I am somewhat surprised that you and yours are not!!!!

[Good Mickey]

Ours aren't either - what planet do you live on again?

GM