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timmcat
12th May 2005, 21:58
Just been watching the documentary on UK TV about the fast growing craze of assaulting people at random, and filming the incident on mobile phones. Seems 'Happy Slapping' started around 6 months ago with somewhat firm 'slaps' on peoples heads on buses, trains, and stations etc. It's now escalated to full blown random assaults and it looks like it's only a matter of time before someone is murdered.

Perpetrators seem to be typically 14 to 18 year old 'yoofs' who think it's really funny. It also seems that the people they pick on are those least likely to return the gesture - oddly the attacks shown on TV saw the vast majority of people take the assault then either walk off or look the other way.

Canary Boy
12th May 2005, 22:08
Did you notice how many of the victims were female?

A colleague of mine who works at a very large light blue training base told of of one of the trainees who had been assaulted by a group of about 4 yoofs. They had picked on the wrong guy because he has some sort of martial arts black belt and dealt summary justice there and then. It seems that he had been caught completely unawares and had reacted through instinct - thus inflicting a (pleasingly) serious injury on one of the perpetrators.

He has been warned by civpol that he will probably be prosecuted. :*

patdavies
12th May 2005, 22:20
That's the problem.

The yoofs will swear on their mothers' graves that they were sitting there minding their own business when this guy attacked one of them - completely unprovoked.

This can only escalate in time. As a US Air Force Staff-Sergeant once told me " If you are going to defend yourself like that - make sure that there is only one person able to supply a police statement at the finish"

tart1
12th May 2005, 22:24
Oh ........... I thought this was a thread about different sexual practices. Or is it practises? ..... no definitely practices!! :E

scrubed
12th May 2005, 22:26
If you do it to a big, fat, crew-cutted lesbo, would that be called Butch Slapping.....
:ouch:

Onan the Clumsy
12th May 2005, 22:27
tart read your PMs :E

tart1
12th May 2005, 22:36
Yes done that Onan - now read yours! :E

Doors to Automatic
12th May 2005, 22:59
It is utterly unacceptable that a victim of such nonsense who rightly fights back and gives these vermin a taste of their own medicine is then prosecuted - as reported above.

That is exactly the root cause of the problem. Its hardly rocket science.

Unwell_Raptor
12th May 2005, 23:04
Don't believe the Daily Mail bollox about punishing the victim. If you are attacked and your response is reasonable you have nothing to worry about. The meaning of reasonable is decided by a jury or a bench of magistrates.

As for who is believed by the court, it is still the law in this country that the prosecution (nb) has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.

Onan the Clumsy
13th May 2005, 01:18
tart1 :ooh: :oh: :ouch: :ok:

Tarnished
13th May 2005, 02:38
Onan, Tart 1

That's not fair! Share, no whispering.

Tarnished

Tolsti
13th May 2005, 02:49
Didn't this all start with an ad by a certain orange flavoured (originally) fizzy drink which led to certain tele adverts being censured?....

Not over sure as have been in countries where you can't get it for a long time. I still think that tango is a dance (can't do it though!!!!)

Blacksheep
13th May 2005, 04:16
Stop it at once you two. Practicing without a licence can have serious consequences. ;)

SyllogismCheck
13th May 2005, 07:18
Just remember to get hold of the little scrotes video phone on which the attack was recorded before responding.
That way you have irrefutable video evidence, provided by the perpetrators themselves, that they were the instigators of the incident.
Afterall, it stands to reason that someone couldn't very well slap you from a prone and crumpled position on the deck after being being knocked halfway into next week doesn't it? :* :E :mad:

Standard Noise
13th May 2005, 07:48
It's okay guys, we're safe now, Uncle Tony's announced a new and improved crackdown on yobs, we can all breathe easily again!:rolleyes:

U_R - I think the problem is, that if someone was to become a victim of such an attack, and retaliated in the name of self defence/self preservation/not wanting to be set alight, or whatever, why should that person have to suffer the annoyance and worry that the CPS and Police are going to persue a prosecution even though he or she was attacked while just walking up the street minding their own business?

Personally, if it happened to me and I wasn't too stunned to react, I would lash out for the purpose of warning the weeb4stards that I wasn't going to lie down and accept that sort of behaviour, so why should I have to go through the court thing while they get away scot free (which even you have to admit, will happen quite often)?

sir
13th May 2005, 08:10
Uncle Tony's announced a new and improved crackdown on yobs

Is this the ban on hooded tops that will <snigger> cure all of Britains social ills ?

I sometimes wear a hooded top - I have some good North Face fleece ones for mountaineering - keeps your bonce warm on an early hike. I'm a respectable enough 30 year old. Am I banned from that shopping centre ?

I love knee jerk British politics - the UK always did know how to write a good farce.

Doors to Automatic
13th May 2005, 09:00
Unwell raptor wrote:

"Don't believe the Daily Mail bollox about punishing the victim. If you are attacked and your response is reasonable you have nothing to worry about. The meaning of reasonable is decided by a jury or a bench of magistrates.

As for who is believed by the court, it is still the law in this country that the prosecution (nb) has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt."


Why should anyone who is attacked by a wild pack of animals have to even go through a court case to clear their name enduring months of worry and uncertainty about their fate along the way? It's an absurd and ridiculous situation that allows this sort of despicable behaviour to flourish.

The yobs alweays get away with it whilst the victims are always hauled up in front of the courts. And that is being "tough on crime and tough on the causes" is it? Its a completely perverse system - no wonder this type of disorder is rife.

PilotsPal
13th May 2005, 09:44
Careful - there might be all sorts of unpleasant repercussions if you get hit by a 14 or 15 year old (who probably looks considerably older) and then retaliate.

I haven't seen it happen on the London Underground yet but I suspect it's only a matter of time. I'm paying a lot more attention of people around me, just in case.....

Doors to Automatic
13th May 2005, 10:03
If some thug hits you why shouldn't you be able to retaliate?

If people retaliated en masse and some of these toerags got the damn good kicking they deserve you can be sure this fad would stop very quickly.

What is more important? Protecting the "rights" of thugs to the nth degree or sending out the message that if they wish to pick on random innocent members of the public they will lose all protection if they get their comeuppance?

If I was Blair I would immediately pass a law saying that any individuals involved in "Happy Slapping" become fair game themselves as soon as the first punch is thrown. That would teach the [email protected]

Omaha
13th May 2005, 12:20
I too saw the programme & I was absolutely horrified. What on earth is happening to society. This idiotic craze started in one school just six months ago but due to the speed & efficiency of todays communications was texted around to other schools in no time & now has caught on like wildfire both within & without the boundaries of schools. I imagine it won't be anytime before it now takes off in Ireland due to this publicity but hopefully most of my countrymen will have the intelligence not to engage in this brainless, wicked behaviour.

I'm saddened that humanity has evolved so little that there are morons out there who honestly believe this behaviour is amusing & feel it's alright to engage in such violent, unprovoked attacks on their fellow human beings for kicks. One man was set on fire by two laughing & sniggering gobsh*tes, the're now serving time, but unfortunately not enough. Personally I believe they should throw away the key. He survived to tell the tale but the poor, brave man is permanently scarred , another was beaten unconscious in turn by a gang on the top of the bus where he had dozed off, anothers hearing is permanently impaired after getting a smack in the side of the head. :mad:

Imagine the fear that must reign in some British schools not to mention how's anyone supposed to feel safe on the streets over there now if this craze crescendos any further. It'll only a matter of time before someone will get killed. Though in litigatious conscious Ireland one would want to be careful about engaging in such behaviour, my countrymen are known to like to sue over nothing, looks like they'd have plenty of grounds here. :E

Bring back military service I say & knock those [email protected] into shape, the birch would do them no harm either. There should be zero tolerance for such bestial behaviour :ok:

In instances like this I harbour for the good, old, innocent days even if it means being tied to a lamppost by some future BA pilot. :(

Wile E. Coyote
13th May 2005, 15:01
If a young thug hit me then I'd hit him back. :}

And it wouldn't be retalliation - it would be self defence using reasonable force, as I'd firmly believe he was going to hit me again.

Taildragger55
13th May 2005, 15:14
Gawd, it makes me tired sometimes.

A lot of teenagers act pretty much as any teenager ever would have, and a few little shits among them commit offences that are punishable under existing law, if the coppers got off their arses.

Suddenly all us middle aged gits start bleating "Birch, throw away key, massive retailiation, yada yada."

The teenagers I know are vastly better behaved, educated and more polite than my generation, although they are under far more pressure and have fewer freedoms than we did.

As soon as I find myself bleating like Alf Garnett I hope someone will remind me in time to turn myself into the home for the No Longer Lucid.

BahrainLad
13th May 2005, 15:14
I think the repercussions are that your 14 or 15 year old in London may be packing something more than a sandwich about his person......

Omaha
13th May 2005, 16:47
I'm not a middle aged git :{ & I don't think my lovely nieces and nephews would condone such behaviour either.

Taildragger55 (bl**dy hell, you're Irish :* )

You obviously didn't see the programme. I'm not complaining about young people in general but in my time discipline in schools was such that bullying was stamped on immediately by the teachers. Rarely had I to attend school in fear of my fellow puplis, the story with some of the teachers was rather different particularly in primary school. :uhoh:

Well there was one occasion when I 'got it' from some fellow pupils but my friends protected me after school when they tried to get me & bashed those knackers eh I meant bullies with their schoolbags while I glided through untouched. :ok:

Of course in my time at school mobile phones didn't exist so there was no market for this type of anti-social behaviour (not that the advent of mobile phones excuses it) which I sure is only engaged in by a minority. What surprises me is such a practice has taken off at all. To me it suggests a brutality & coarseness in society that thankfully I never had to come face to face with growing up & was confined to very small pockets. I feel sorry for the good kids who have to endure this behaviour in the supposedly safe haven of their school & on the streets. One child on the programme is terrified to attend school anymore after being the victim of an attack there.

I think its the sheer ramdomness & unprovokedness of the attacks that shocks not to mention the severity of them & the kicks the perpetrators got from them not to mention that many were so young. The victims were not 'asking for it'. Society survives on rules, moral & social restraints about how you may or may not treat people, here the rules seem to have entirely broken down. That's what's so frightening.

Are any of us safe?

maxman
13th May 2005, 19:27
Was it just me, or did anyone else watching the program, want the interviewer to get up and give that grinning little snot a happy slap, on national television, and then ask him how he felt.
Methinks he wouldn't be doing it again.

Brian Dixon
13th May 2005, 22:26
May be useful:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_d.html#04

Worth bearing in mind that 'Reasonable Force' isn't defined in law (UK).

Doubtful that I would stand there and just take it. :ouch:

Astrodome
13th May 2005, 22:45
"Don't believe the Daily Mail bollox about punishing the victim. If you are attacked and your response is reasonable you have nothing to worry about. The meaning of reasonable is decided by a jury or a bench of magistrates. On the basis of what I have read from comments from some of our resident Magistrates I fear you would end up inside.

As the Police seem to side with the scrotes these days, and certain Magistrates have openly declared that they always believe the Police version you may have little chance.

Its interesting how some people seem to have a real aversion to the Daily Mail, despite former Marxist Labour Ministers saying that it is a quality paper.

So come on lads, it OK now. Your Labour Government minister says so.

ducksoup
13th May 2005, 22:59
"Happy Slapping", that´s assault is it not?
In just the same way that "mugging" is robbery with violence ?

Can we please move away from these terms which tend to minimise the nasty, dangerous anti-social behaviour it really is?
Repugnant little barstewards should be dealt with as severely as the law will allow.

Whilst I´m ranting, could we have performance checks on the magistrates and Police in order to ensure that they are meting out justice to the level that is required by the general populace?

We are regularly told by over zealous coppers that they don´t make the laws, only enforce it. Too easy when you´ve got a motorist bang to rights; bit harder with the yobs who infest our country isn´t it boys? Sorry, and Girls, before the PC brigade strike back.

Onewordanswer
14th May 2005, 07:56
Bring back military service I say & knock those [email protected] into shape, the birch would do them no harm either. There should be zero tolerance for such bestial behaviour

Yep that pretty much sums it up as the establishment policy.......tough taking your own medecine?:}

Unwell_Raptor
14th May 2005, 09:46
"As the Police seem to side with the scrotes these days, and certain Magistrates have openly declared that they always believe the Police version you may have little chance."

If any magistrate has said any such thing (and I doubt it) they will be unlikely to stay on the bench.

acbus1
14th May 2005, 10:14
To heck with what may or may not be the consequences.

If some yob(s) tries to "slap" me he/she will get a response I'll make sure they regret.

Same rule applies if someone breaks into my home.

Gratuitous violence? You bet, and love every second.


Too much whimping out these days.........get a backbone......and some self respect.

ShyTorque
14th May 2005, 10:36
My 19 yr old son was beaten up on a bus on Thursday night. He and his girlfriend were returning from a night out. They went upstairs on the packed bus and the only vacant seats were being sprawled across by youths. My son asked if they would mind moving over so they could sit down. The youths then proceeded to goad the pair of them, especially the girl. When my son reacted by asking them what the problem was, one of the youths immediately approached and began punching him in the face. My son naturally reacted but as soon as he raised his arm, he was immediately set upon by FIVE of them and badly beaten. His girlfriend tried to pull them off but she was also attacked, kicked and punched.

NOT ONE OTHER SOUL ON THE BUS HELPED. My son is bruised, battered, and unable to work. Police reaction? Not much. The driver called the police but having pulled the bus over they allowed all five yobs to run away. My son went back to the police yesterday, looking like a bag of spanners, to formally report the incident, but they could not even find a record of the incident!!

Blair says there is no problem? Just go to Manchester, and take a bus - Mr Effing Blair!

:mad:

Onewordanswer
14th May 2005, 11:28
Wet noses like Mummies boy should be kept on a short leash or reap the "Moses" Like consequence.
Bus boy needs skills!

Davaar
14th May 2005, 17:17
Unfortunately, Unwell, Lord Denning said it too. See his interview in "The Spectator" a few years ago. Hair-raising.

ShyTorque
14th May 2005, 18:30
Onewordanswer

If you refer to my son, I can tell you he is no mummmie's boy and I find your comment offensive.

What skills do you possess that work when outnumbered 5 to 1 and surrounded in a confined area? :rolleyes:

Hobgoblin
14th May 2005, 18:46
Useful skills in a confined environment outnumbered 5 to 1?

Aikido black belt or failing that some assistance from Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson :E

joe2812
14th May 2005, 19:14
Argh... this is the new past time of people in the common room at college at the moment. Those walking through get hit while someone sat at a table records it.

Like one of the examples previously I was a victim of such 'attack' from a 1st year who had done similar on the football pitch the previous week.

Unfortunately for said scroat black belt Ju Jitsu resulted in black eye for him and arm lock :E

College didn't agree it was self-defence and almost withdraw me from my A-Level finals 4 weeks before I was due to sit them!

Disgraceful, and the program on it that was shown the other week was sickening. And these are the future of our country... pah.

Paterbrat
14th May 2005, 19:47
Were I to be unlucky enough to witness a slapping on a bus and the youth or youths then run past to escape as they appear to do while the victim tends to be momentarily stunned I would be tempted to do some slapping of my own. I say unlucky because I would have little doubt that I would then be liable to prosocution for assault.
The problem is that they a) tend to be in a group which makes for one on three or five or howevere many the pack is, the second is that they tend to pick on a victim unlikely, to fight back, or handicapped by the presence of a girlfriend wife or child. The slap hard on the ear is a self defence move which will ususaly result in a burst eardrum which is very disorienting resulting in confusion and dizziness or imballance.
A sharp slap with both hand to an opponents ears which bursts both will for a space of time put that person out of action.
If one did witness a slapping and in a position to do something the object might be to grab the phone which has filmed the event ring 999 immediately and report an assault, then either try to aprehend the offenders or to avoid being assaulted one's self.
Helping hands in this country do seem rare and not many people will step up to assist so choose quickly what action you want to take either if assaulted yourself or helping someone else. Do take comfort from the fact that most of the time they will be surprised by any action from a bystander and with the element of surprise and by example you may get assistance.
Sum up the situation and act appropriately, if that is simply ringing for the police or filming the little shits that did it or simply trying to get their identities every liitle bit helps, when the vermin who do find this amusing find people reacting in a hostile and agressive manner towards behaviour like this it does make them think twice even if the police government and judiciary seem to be doing little towards this outrageous behavior.

Doors to Automatic
14th May 2005, 23:49
The problem is that ALL the police ALL the judiciary and ALL the Labour party are head-over-heals in love with the criminal.

I defy anyone to conclude differently when people who, in desparation, stand up to the pond life are themselves jailed whilst the pondlife are left feeling untouchable. It's little wonder that when such a culture of liberal fascism exists no one wants to get involved.

We had the chance to do something about it last week. We didn't. Here's to five more years of politically correct HELL.

Unwell_Raptor
15th May 2005, 18:14
I don't think that Davaar proves much by quoting a judge born in 1899, who retired in 1982 and died six years ago at the age of 100. Things have moved on these days, fortunately.

Doors: do you not think that your statement is a bit too sweeping to be taken seriously?

scrubed
15th May 2005, 19:58
Happy Slapping.


I guess this is the latest term for spanking the monkey.

Ant
15th May 2005, 20:33
Onewordanswer

I've read and re-read your post above in an attempt to understand you. Given that it immediately follows ShyTorque's account of his son being attacked by 5 others, just what exactly do you mean by "Wet noses" and "Mummies boy". Your remarks, at best, are bizarre and grossly inappropriate. Would you care to explain yourself?

tart1
15th May 2005, 21:14
Doors: I hope when you talk about 'all the judiciary' you are not talking about magistrates.

Being in love with the criminal just is not true - most magistrates are normal, right-thinking people who would love to have the opportunity to send these yobs down for the longest time possible.

I hardly think that you should hold magistrates responsible for the fact that most of these cases, by the time they arrive in court (if they do), have had the charge reduced by the CPS and the magistrates are then restricted in the type of sentence they can impose.

And as for 'certain magistrates always believing the police version' I have never heard such a load of f***ing s**t and b***ocks.

Thanks - it's always good to know that the public support us so wholeheartedly.
:(

Canary Boy
15th May 2005, 22:19
I have to add my support to Ant and to the original post from ShyTorque. I would like to give Onewordanswer the benefit of the doubt and assume he was talking [email protected] because he was p*ss*d. If not, would he care to expand on his fatuous post?:*

Mr Chips
15th May 2005, 22:31
I imagine it won't be anytime before it now takes off in Ireland due to this publicity but hopefully most of my countrymen will have the intelligence not to engage in this brainless, wicked behaviour.

yeah, hard to imagine people from either side of the Border in Ireland engaging in wanton acts of violence.... :rolleyes:

Doors to Automatic
15th May 2005, 22:34
Unwell Raptor - Yes perhaps it is, just slightly but its not far off the truth.

Tart1 - Sorry I forgot to add the CPS to my list. Another major reason why the situation is as bad as it is today is that each party involved in the process is only interested in blaming the other parties rather than taking responsibility for its own actions. Your post proves my point better than anything I can say.

If just once, just occasionally justice was seen to be done instead of the horrendously lenient sentences that are always handed out you might find that the public would have more confidence in the system. But please don't take my word for it - go out and ask 100 random people what they think of the situation.

Onewordanswer
16th May 2005, 05:38
My son asked if they would mind moving over so they could sit down.

Shakespeare, in Henry IV, Part One. Falstaff: 'The better part of valour is discretion; in the which better part I have saved my life.' :}

Groundbased
16th May 2005, 08:40
Oneword,

For an unarmed person faced with someone wielding a knife or a gun I might agree. In no way should this quote apply to something so normal and straightforward as asking for space to sit down on a bus.

Taildragger55
16th May 2005, 08:50
You obviously didn't see the programme.

Yup, you are right, and as a middle aged git myself I would probably have gone purple and said the country was going to the dogs.

However, the problem is one of non enforcement of the laws by the police. Nothing more. If cops got off arses, the small minority of teenagers who are yobs would soon behave.

Giving them more powers on top of those they already have is insane.

The seam of latent hatred by some of us middle aged gits for anyone under 50 is worrying.

Paterbrat
16th May 2005, 11:44
'The seam of latent hatred by some of us middle aged gits for anyone under 50 is worrying'

A tad strong I would venture probably more a growing concern for the seemingly increasing ammount of unruly to violent behaviour in the young which appears to be going unchecked sufficiently or in a manner that is reassuring to the general public.

Omaha
16th May 2005, 12:14
I am under 50.

Does that mean I must hate myself. :confused:

Saw fears on the paper that the fad might spread to Ireland, as they say when Britain sneezes, Ireland catches a cold
In other words the authorities feel its inevitable. However the Gardaí are already saying they will have a no tolerance attitiude to it & anyone found engaging in it will be charged with voilent assault.

Looks like the fab actually started in some faddish music scene, can't remember exactly so I hesitate to say. People are blaming certain sequels on telly for it which glorified bashing up strangers for fun.

Whether the culprits doing it were over 50 or under I'd have the same attitude, it's the action I condemn, not the age. The fact that the culprits are mainly testosterine filled teenagers is co-incidental.

It appears that this dangerous fab has got so widespread in England it's become a real cause for concern; 200 attacks in South London alone. Does wonders for the tourist industry over there, I for one will think twice before I visit again till these nutters are under control. :*

Rollingthunder
16th May 2005, 12:20
I actually have this slightly perverse feeling that I would like someone to try it. The aftermath is not going to be pretty.

Onan the Clumsy
16th May 2005, 12:39
The aftermath is not going to be pretty. Not pretty :E ... or not pretty :{ ?


Doors That was a stupid post you made. If you want to pursuade people towards your point of view, you'll have to make it at least a little believable. If all you can do is rant, how do you expect people to take you seriously?

topcat450
16th May 2005, 13:27
I think Peterbrat had a good point in that there are VERY few helping hands in this day and age. Shytorques lad was on a FULL bus yet they all got off and into the night.

5 people versus a full bus - all it usually takes is one person to stand up to them, they don't expect it and usually freeze but also if one person stands upto them it encourages others to do so too.

I know it can be incredibly hard to at times to stand up & intervene, however I'd be praying someone helped me if I was on the receiving end, likewise if it was my daughter...brother..mother etc. Quite how we can change society - I don't have an answer for that. :(

tart1
16th May 2005, 15:00
Doors - so glad my post proved your point for you. :rolleyes:

My actual point was: don't slate magistrates as criminal-loving or biased.

It's very insulting to a group of people who give up their time for nothing and do their best to make good decisions within very limiting guidelines. :*

timmcat
16th May 2005, 15:12
know it can be incredibly hard to at times to stand up & intervene,

I'm going to come clean here. I'm not well built, and have never been involved any sort of physical fight. Unless it was my own family, I would'nt be the one to get up and have a go, although I'd probably assist others.

It sounds really harsh (or even cowardly perhaps) but I'd rather have a heavy conscience than never work or see my family again.

Burnt Fishtrousers
16th May 2005, 17:15
People are coming up infront of the beak everyday and are justly dealt with.All we hear of is the sensationalist cases in rags like the Daily Mail.

You should be blaming the legislature not the magistrates who have their hands tied. Theres one or two magistrates I know that would have many little sh!ts birched if they had their way, but the touchy feely, liberal apologists for criminals i e B Liar and his lawyer cohorts are to blame...and as soon as we can get away from this human rights crap pedeled by the continentals the better.

Of the people I know who have been assaulted (my self included)none have been prosecuted but have been to court.

Someone tried to assault me, unfortunately for them my shopping consisted of several tins of baked beans ( Sainsbury's own brand from memory), which ,duly dispatched across the bridge of the assailants nose several times put them down and out with a broken nose.

WG774
16th May 2005, 20:18
Some scrotes tried to mug a friend of mine a few months back. What they didn't realise was that her bag contained a sack of potatoes, which she duly clubbed one of them around the head with, whereupon they ran off :p

She is a feisty girl, I would've enjoyed seeing footage of the event!

tart1
16th May 2005, 20:54
Thank you Burnt Fish T for a note of common sense regarding magistrates. :D

Hey ........ we'd string 'em all up if we had our way!! (Don't quote me though!) ;)

Davaar
16th May 2005, 21:06
_________________________________
I don't think that Davaar proves much by quoting a judge born in 1899, who retired in 1982 and died six years ago at the age of 100. Things have moved on these days, fortunately.
_________________________________

I did not intend to prove a whole lot, save that one very senior and influential judge did indeed prefer the police version to any other. Was he an aberration? How many of his generation and inclination still grace the bench? How many "guilties proved not guilty" have been released from British jails in the past twenty years? Over here the answer would be "many", and I can think of at least one more who should have been.

Grainger
19th May 2005, 16:41
A mother has hit out at a gang of youths who beat up her teenage daughter and filmed it on a mobile phone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4563419.stm

This makes me so mad. I've said it before and I'll say it again now - I'm a great believer in Punishment to Fit the Crime.

Let's just hope we don't hear any of the usual garbage about "not enough evidence" - the whole thing was recorded . . . and mobile phone records ought to show who did the filming !

Lon More
19th May 2005, 23:07
Saw a nice T shirt today, "You happy-slap me, I'll happily slap you into next week

Flying Foxy
20th May 2005, 16:07
There is a more sinister side to the use of video phones - more on that in a mo. Firstly I want to ask (if anyone knows?)..

WHAT is the point of a video phone?
WHAT was the idea of the mfrs in 'inventing' the idea that video footage can be shown on a telephone?
My mate got a mobile phone upgrade and proudly told me it had a camera built in. Hmm.
I bought a PDA last December to use some software to do with work and potentially for TomTom (in-vehicle navigation) and it came with.. a camera built in. Waste of technology - why would I need one of those? When my mate with the phone-cam later told me he'd bought a digital camera - I asked him if it came with a mobile phone built in - and sadly the joke was lost on him..

The serious point about this.
A couple of weeks ago I went to support a friend who was playing in a Jazz band at a pub in Buxton, Derbyshire. I was on my own in the room and sat at a long refectory table. After the band started, the room began to fill up and a couple of school age lads (prob about 17 ish) came and sat near me, after another hour or so, the table was full of more mates of the initial couple and they all had their phones out within about another half hour. Given that nearly all of them were under 18 (I estimated - some were clearly nowhere near needing to shave) I could see they were all on beer/lager some with chasers. I could also see that EVERYTHING they were showing each other on their phones, was hard core porn - meaning full on hetero sex, mutual m*st**bation, blow j*bs etc etc - the whole works and all that goes with it.
I'm not a prude at all, but I really think that 'children' have lost their youth and ability to have a childhood because there is so much freely available adult material around and there are seemingly no controls [enforced] to prevent them seeing it before they should. See the newspapers/TV for the ages of these 'happy slappers' - with a phone that costs up to and well over £100. Why have they got them? Do parents neither have nor exercise ANY control any more?
This is why we seem to be acquiring a nanny state - because the discipline isn't put in place where it matters - AT HOME, so the job is left to overworked teachers who have first contact with the disturbed behaviour of minors, then the social workers to whom the task is handed, next the police if it becomes more serious and probation workers can't tackle it. We need to educate the schoolchildren of today in the right/wrong morals in the hope that they would teach their offspring what is acceptable, but it will take another 3 or 4 generations for it to filter through like it's taken for the current badness to develop.
I just don't see it happening, or know how to encourage today's yoof to be more responsible and take a pride in themselves - perhaps that's where it begins?

FF

Paterbrat
20th May 2005, 17:04
Sad fact is that home discipline is in a seeming decline not helped by the fact that a parent can now be taken before the CPS for assault if he or she decided to spank the child. Note I said spank and not to beat. For those who would confuse this with the monkey, and there are those who happily would, spanking is flat of the hand over the buttock area over cloths and done once or twice more for the shock effect than the desire to inflict pain. Usualy done to small ones to reinforce your instructions when faced with defiance or disobedience. The young will quickly learn if something is meant and when older under general/ideal conditions it generaly becomes unneccesary. If children have been allowed to do as they please and run feral, it is little use leaving them to the state, it's hands are generaly tied, they don't have the time resources or desire to do what should have been done at home.
The general decline is i think a passing phase because if it is allowed to decline indefinitely there will simply be anarchic chaos, and Lord of the Flies type mob rule.
Happy slappers should be slapped back and shown that it hurts is assault and that they wouldn't like it when done to them.

Liked the T shirt logo mentioned earlier :ok:

Lon More
21st May 2005, 01:03
From arrse - the Army Network


last week working with a mate at heathrow termimal 2 i had the fortune to stumble into an opportunity just too good to pass up... and i think it could become a new national sport.

now , there's a big old roundabout outside heathrow , with about 11 sets of lights and a garage in the middle , i got to know it intimately because the lad i travelled up with is .. how can i put this "geographically challenged" so by the 5th time going round it i was looking around for some entertainment ... you know the drills , short skirts in passing cars etc etc ...
then as i was trying to scope the bird in the next cars knickers i became aware of a noise , it sounded like some angry bees in a dustbin and realised right on her rear bumper were 3 chavs , on their f*cking ridiculous hairdryer mopeds , sitting on her rear bumper at the lights generally acting the c*nt and annoying everyone , well this went on for three sets of lights lots of horn bibbing and "revving" if you can call it that of engines , producing the biggest cloud of 2 stroke smoke since the arkansas chain saw festival of 1987.
at the third set of lights everything slipped into place for one of the most satisfying things i have ever done... by this time the car had moved forward a bit so the "three amigos" were right by our van still acting up and laughing to each other when suddenly i knew what had to be done.
i gently eased my van door open and without leaving the vehicle kicked the nearest one to me as hard as i could in the shoulder this had the desired effect of sending him off balance into his 2 stupid mates , who being hard had put their stands up and had their feet on the handlebars so over they all went in a f*cking heap .... and with perfect timing the lights went green and i had the lovely view of them all trying to pick themselves up whilst being sworn at by a lorry full of builders behind them
my view after that was distorted by tears of laughter and pride .
has this got the potential to become a new blood sport , could we see packs of cars hunting these little retards down like the vermin they are ??

opsguy10
21st May 2005, 07:07
I had a situation the other day. I was in North London with my girlfriend having a meal in a restraunt! All of a sudden these lads started kicking the c*&p out the tables/chairs/plants etc outside.

The owner went running outside to try stop them and these kids then set about her. I couldnt sit there and watch this so went out to tell the little S*&t's to (well need i say it).

This kid and he must only of been about 15 then squares up to me threating to stab me. Luckily at this point the police did turn up unfortunatly not catching them!

Problem is what happens next time this guy has already giving my girlfriend abuse when walking home from work. Im sure ill see him to problem being im now aware he might be carrying a knife (probally not but you just dont know) if he decides to get to close im not going to hang around to much before i lay the little shite out! Im not going to after all wait to see if he has got one.

Im only 25 and even I can say something needs to be done with these thugs. Most teenagers are good people but for that 1 or 2% something needs to be done! Maybe some form of conscription or move useful community done on a one strike and your out type system! Its certainly not going to make things worse.

Rant over

Opsguy

:}

Dead_Heading
21st May 2005, 10:56
Lon More- Bloody brilliant! Once had one in front of me and me dad, revving his eggwhisk up and getting oily residue over our nice, clean nuberplate. Edge forward, and the vans buper traps the little scrotes back tire perfectly, was funny when he managed to stall it :}

tubthumper
21st May 2005, 11:32
Chav-slapping, I like it.

It's time to take the fight to them, gentlemen.

dmanton300
21st May 2005, 12:41
go out and ask 100 random people what they think of the situation.

Never mind that.. . go out and ask 100 random Police Constables what they think of the situation. You'll get exactly the same answer but with a little more experience and bitter, frustrated cynicism behind it.

Lon More
21st May 2005, 13:36
Was it "Dirty Harry where, after the baddie was lamped, a carefully wiped weapon was planted on his person for the police to find?

Just asking:rolleyes:

Wedge
21st May 2005, 14:19
Yawn........not surprising to see the Daily Hate Mail brigade spouting the usual ill-informed nonsense. A Daily Mail letters page, in fact.

It is utterly unacceptable that a victim of such nonsense who rightly fights back and gives these vermin a taste of their own medicine is then prosecuted - as reported above.

If the said 'giving a taste of their own medicine' involves gratuitous unnecessary use of violence causing serious injury, as the anecdotal evidence above says, you can expect to be prosecuted. What else would you expect in a decent society?

The law allows you, quite rightly, to use reasonable force to defend yourself. If does not allow you to inflict serious injury on somebody who slaps you on the head.

And before anyone jumps in with the predictable 'you love the criminal, you are are liberal nazi blah blah blah', I can assure you that I am equally exasperated with the behaviour of young some young people who seem to think that they are above the law. Punishments are not nearly tough enough to act as a deterrent. I would even consider returning to corporal punishment as a means of instilling discipline in young yobs.

The current craze of filming such attacks on mobile phones is as frightening as it is abhorrent.

But at the same time as punishing them, do any of the Daily Mail crowd ask themselves for a moment why young people are increasingly behaving in such a way?

The blame, of course, lies firmly with today's money-obsessed society, or the 'society' that the Mail's beloved Thatcher said did not exist. She has to take a large share of the blame, imho; as do the left wing moralists. If society leaves people behind, you can expect those left behind to object in the only way they can.

The problem is that ALL the police ALL the judiciary and ALL the Labour party are head-over-heals in love with the criminal.

Blah....blah......blah.......

Paterbrat
21st May 2005, 16:40
Wedge, blah blah blah just about neatly sums all the crap you have just spouted. Have a happy slap on me right round the bloody ear.:ok:

M.Mouse
21st May 2005, 17:00
or the 'society' that the Mail's beloved Thatcher said did not exist

Much as I hate to dispel the illusion you try to create with the hoary old left wing mis-quote how about the full quote from an interview on September 23 1987, to Woman's Own, published October 31 1987:

"People constantly requesting government intervention are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours."

Sorry it doesn't have quite the same impact.

And as far as If the said 'giving a taste of their own medicine' involves gratuitous unnecessary use of violence causing serious injury, as the anecdotal evidence above says, you can expect to be prosecuted. What else would you expect in a decent society?

If some mindless thug and bully deems it acceptable to randomly assault a victim at will then if they were seriously hurt when the victim retaliates I doubt that a vast percentage of the UK population, thoroughly sick and tired of the cretinous element making our lives less and less pleasant, would be anything other than delighted.

Bullies only attack when they have no fear of any meaningful retribution. The last time I was the victim of a meaningless attack, while driving innocently home, the police were very helpful, found the culprits but were legally powerless to act due, understandably, to lack of evidence. In civilised discussion with the police officer I offered the prediction that law abiding decent people are coming to the end of their tether and if we are not very careful we will end up with vigilantism.

Not a pleasant thought but with the namby pamby liberal view seemingly holding sway over common sense it will happen.

Onewordanswer
22nd May 2005, 06:52
I can just see it now a group of vigilante PPRUNErs dealing out justice!!! ........Don't make me laugh:hmm:

MMEMatty
22nd May 2005, 15:49
I was "happy Slapped " by a couple of kids, couldnt have been more than about 5 or 6. Now, if you read some other posts i have made in the past, you'll realise that i'm 6'4 and not exatly skinny build. As i said these kids were 5 or 6. I didnt know who they were, how many of them etc, but i turned ready to knock seven shades of sh!t out of someone, expecting them to be a fair size or something, but then what could i do? they literally couldnt have been more than 6 years old, and i'm not gonna bray a 6 year old. Maybe i should have, but i gave them a great big fat bollocking along the lines of "im doin nowt this time but if you do that again, i wont be responsible for my actions" type of thing. Would i back that up? probably not. they were 6

matty

Konkordski
22nd May 2005, 16:27
and as soon as we can get away from this human rights crap pedeled by the continentals the better


Amen to that.

If you violate others' human rights, you forfeit your own. The lesson would be - don't do it.

Paterbrat
22nd May 2005, 19:02
With a moment or two more to comment further on the following submission that came our way earlier. Which i thought was twaddle!


"The law allows you, quite rightly, to use reasonable force to defend yourself. If does not allow you to inflict serious injury on somebody who slaps you on the head...
The blame, of course, lies firmly with today's money-obsessed society, or the 'society' that the Mail's beloved Thatcher said did not exist. She has to take a large share of the blame, imho; as do the left wing moralists. If society leaves people behind, you can expect those left behind to object in the only way they can."


Reasonable force to defend yourself??? The point with happy slapping is that in most cases the attacks are launched from behind, or from groups. The other thing is in a lot of cases a slap hard on the ear bursts the drum, would be classified certainly as an injury not just a 'slap on the head'.
Having been assaulted without provocation it should be reasonable to most people that a retaliation of some sort is not an 'unreasonable' reaction. Retaliation while hurt, surprised and shocked one is unlikely to consider at length what is 'reasonable force!'

As to the rather kneejerk reaction of blame it on Maggie??? I wonder if the author of that fatuous comment has ever considered that since man began there have always been some who were better off than others for a huge variety of reasons. There will always be those who are left behind and to say that happy slapping is that element objecting in the only way they can is just plain idiotic. Left behind and they are rushing around with mobiles???
Society past present and future will always contain those who are better off than the majority and those less well off than the majority. The less well off or disadvantaged tend historicaly to be more interested in getting by than education, morals, manners, consideration for others, touchy feely treehuugy political correctness, or any other fitting in stratagies, they simply take what they can from who they can.
The present HS craze is nothing to do with that, it is a rather perverse delight of the mainly unruly teen element in hurting, shocking and getting away with bad behaviour because in the present political climate they can.
There is little deterence and a lot of leeway being allowed to them and they are taking full advantage of that as the young do.
The sooner a zero tolerance for this sort of thing is implemented, the sooner it will stop. This is however common sense which of course is counter the PC policy of today so is unlikely to be coming our way soon.

Rollingthunder
22nd May 2005, 19:09
The police will not/cannot help with these things. Take it down one at a time. Pound the perpetrators in the face one at a time. Stomp on the phone and walk away. If enough of this is done, the lesson will be learned.

Farrell
22nd May 2005, 21:17
One of guys I was in the Legion Etrangere with got happy slapped in London about two months ago........total carnage!

tart1
22nd May 2005, 21:46
Just a further thought ........... calling this 'HAPPY' slapping is about as bad as calling driving like a bat out of hell in a stolen car 'JOY' riding.

I think someone earlier did say that we should get away from calling such a nasty act by this sort of name. :*

Wedge
23rd May 2005, 00:12
Well done again Pater for your wilfull misquote of my post, the fact that you have had to resort to such base tactics shows the paucity of your argument.

one is unlikely to consider at length what is 'reasonable force!'

Yes, and the law recognises this and gives considerable leeway to the victim of a crime to the extent that force over and above what is reasonable is usually allowed if it can be justified as an over-reaction in the heat of the moment. A retaliation, even an excessive one, can be 'reasonable' under such circumstances in the eyes of the law. But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good old reactionary rant eh? :hmm:

No doubt you too believe that the judiciary, the police and the Labour politicians are 'head over heals' [sic] in love with the criminal, the most ludicrous comment so far posted on this thread, but one which the Daily Mail brigade have mysteriously ignored.
:rolleyes:

IFTB
23rd May 2005, 07:54
and as soon as we can get away from this human rights crap pedeled by the continentals the better

The Continentals? Oh really? So why does it seem to be only the UK who is suffering from Human Rights on the brain. Like their friends the USA?? :yuk:

Where else do we have Happy Slapping, Fire Fighter attacks etc??

scrubed
23rd May 2005, 10:12
we should get away from calling such a nasty act by this sort of nameBut why..... calling it "Happy" lends it a more pleasant image and helps make it a little less unacceptable.

Probably helps soothe the sting somewhat for the slappees too.

yintsinmerite
23rd May 2005, 13:09
I was talking to a guy yesterday morning who was 'slapped' on saturday night on Morcambe sea front . Far from being someone who couldnt hit back, he was about 6ft 3 and used to carrying around large bits of PA gear. What was even more worrying is that the police were apparently not too bothered - 'it happens all the time', he was told. What hope is there of stopping this if the police are not concerned ?

Paterbrat
23rd May 2005, 16:53
My goodness Wedge,

"Well done again Pater for your wilfull misquote of my post, the fact that you have had to resort to such base tactics shows the paucity of your argument."

Pray do show me where I have misquoted your post. I am sure that you noticed the ... which means it carries on further. I did not as you seem to imply run them together however if you missed that look again.

Such base tactics??? what was base about stating that your humble opinion about Thatcher or Thacherism having something to do with happy slapping or having to take any blame at all was ludicrous, which it is.

"She has to take a large share of the blame, imho; as do the left wing moralists. If society leaves people behind, you can expect those left behind to object in the only way they can."

I would put to you that a lot of the young people indulging in this sick past time are not the disadvantaged or left behind so much as the wild and unruly, who are being allowed to get away with behaviour which should be checked by both police and judiciary and presently is not. In fact most of the young from the 'disadvantaged' section of society are being given financial incentives to be educated, or being given council houses and benefits to raise the largest population of young teen single family in Europe, a sad and very large contributory factor to the decline in standards in our society today.


Where have I said that the police and judiciary are head over heels in love with the criminal or even implied it? The police have their hands tied and the judiciary are instructed as to the sentencing by the government, which at the moment seems not to believe in deterence with results that are becoming ever plainer to see.

Regretably Wedge I cannot say well done for your feeble response ironicaly or even sarcasticaly, you really haven't grasped the plot very well at all. Do try harder.

Telstar
23rd May 2005, 21:11
The clip I'd love to see is when a "Happy Slapper" picks the worng person and it all goes horribly wrong and the person starting the assault gets used to mop the floor, they get happy slapped into the middle of next week so to speak.

mr.nys
23rd May 2005, 21:21
Our school had a Happy Slap day a few weeks back. I still don't understand the point of it.......

Doors to Automatic
26th May 2005, 14:30
Unfortunately whilst we have ridiculous* people like Wedge standing up for the present system which the vast majority of sane people are thoroughly hacked off with the situation will not improve.

* What on earth has Thatcher to do with people going around assaulting others for fun and filming the attacks on mobile phones?

eal401
26th May 2005, 15:27
Wedge is the sort to whine "nur, nur, Daily mail types, whinge, whinge" without actually having any thought of his own.

Still, he could get happy slapped and then caught speeding on the way home, that might alter his view on life! :p

Wedge
26th May 2005, 15:53
What on earth has Thatcher to do with people going around assaulting others for fun and filming the attacks on mobile phones?

Oh, just the fact that she was largely personally responsible for the break down in social cohesion because she presided over a period of great prosperity for one half of the nation while the other had to endure abject poverty. She was the most divisive Prime Minister of recent times and it is my view that she caused great damage to society. And by the way she did say 'There is no such thing as society'; those were her exact words and to my mind the context makes no difference. She said it and meant it.

I've heard the Daily Mail types whinge on many times about how it's all the fault of the pinko lefties, and I accept to some extent it is. The same people seem unable to see that Thatcher has to take an equal or greater share of the blame. You may not agree with that, it's my opinion anyway (one which I have come to independently, a 'thought' of my own in fact!)

without actually having any thought of his own

How do you intend to justify this sweeping assertion? It seems to be en vogue for the Tories to accuse anyone to the left of them of not understanding the issues, or being able to think for themselves, a sign of desperation because their arguments are failing. Do you read the Daily Mail, perchance?

If I get caught speeding by a camera, that will be my fault for speeding. I confess to breaking the speed limit, and indeed I was flashed the other day because it appears the Met have reduced the speed their cameras at from 44 mph in a 30 zone to something lower. We will see if I get a letter in the post, if I do I'm bang to rights.

If I get happy slapped, I will used my lawful right of reasonable force to defend myself.

cavortingcheetah
26th May 2005, 16:20
;) I think not.

Once you have been slapped, that is it.
You have no right of self defence in law after the event unless the slapper attempts to slap again.

Any force on your part, between slaps, would constitute unprovoked aggression. Woe betide you if you urge the assailant to hit you again in order to afford yourself such opportunity for self defense.

Sorry Old Bean. Much simpler to kill the slappy chappie first, right at the beginning. One shot between the eyes, or a double tap, if you're good!
Rather like Maggie, (God Bless Her) and the Belgrano.
No further aggro- ergo no problem.:E

Doors to Automatic
26th May 2005, 16:27
Wedge, with respect, that is the one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on any forum.

Thatcher has been gone for 15 years. Blair has now been in power for 8 years. He came to power with a promise to be tough on crime and on the causes. He has been nothing of the sort.

Blair has also governed over a period of economic stability. Things have improved beyond recognition since 1997. We can argue till we are blue in the face as to whether this is down to the stable situation which the tories left behind or the way in which Labour have handled things since (I happen to believe it's a bit of both) but the fact remains that if people want to get off their lazy fat @rses and find work they are now in the best ever position to do so.

Moreover, to say that the breakdown of law and order is down to Thatcher, even if it were true, is an insult to those from less privileged backgrounds who do make a go of things and don't go around assaulting people for fun.

The problem is a general lack of respect which has nothing to do with the economic situation, Thatcher or the Tories but everything to do with a complete anbsence of discipline in schools, a lack of reasonable deterrants in society, a police force laden down with red tape, a judiciary containing elements who have not the faintest idea about real life and a government more interested in prosecuting those who stand up to criminals rather than the criminals themselves.

Even if the Tories had created this mess, Blair has had 8 years to sort it out. All we get is vacant promises and a lot of talk but no action.

The problem is easy to sort out. I am at a loss to explain why it hasn't been.

Wedge
26th May 2005, 16:45
DTA, I actually don't disagree that there has been a collapse in moral standards (despite the fact that every generation who ever lived has always said the same once they reach a certain age); and I agree that there is an absence of discipline, that the police are swamped in unecessary red-tape, that some of the judiciary have lost touch, and that their is an absence of effective deterrents. I agree with all of that, and I realise Thatcher was a long time ago, but her legacy was so great that I believe we still feel it today and always will.

Labour did say they would be tough on crime. We have one of the highest prison populations of the developed world. We continuously lock up drug addicts for petty theft and burglary when the money would be far better spent on rehabilitating them back into society. Right-wing Labour Home Secretaries like KerrBlunkett have passed some of the most Draconian legislation on crime in this nation's history, not to mention the anti-terror legislation which has degraded the Common Law right to a fair trial that the British people have enjoyed since Magna Carta in the 13th century.

It is indeed a sign of the times when the mother of the three girls under 16 all of whom have babies, blames the government for not doing enough to teach them sex education! The blame lies with her, of course, but also with the society that we have become a part of, for which we must all take responsibility and which is where I suggest Thatcher went wrong in saying that there was no such thing.

Many people have decided that they will take no responsibility for their lives whatsoever, and will always find someone else to blame for their faults. (This is beginning to sound like a Daily Mail leader column!). That is a problem with society, and I believe a large proportion of the blame can be levelled with Thatcher. It's easy to blame politicians for the faults that society has, it's much harder for them to turn back the clock and make people take responsibility for themselves. I suggest the roots of society's ills can be clearly traced back to the Thatcher years, and no doubt before.

The problem is easy to sort out.

This I don't agree with. It is far from easy to sort this problem out. Simple right-wing rhetoric about cutting taxes and benefits from 'scroungers' and introducing tougher criminal sanctions will not sort it out. Neither the Tories nor Labour have the ability to make the kind of difference you are talking about. That much is clear to me.

Doors to Automatic
26th May 2005, 17:17
The problem is easy to sort out:

1. Bring in proper discipline in schools (Detention, Saturday Detention, Cane, Cane in front of whole school)

2. Free up Police to patrol streets. Use CSOs as eyes and ears to direct Police resources effectively. Increase CSOs to equal Police in numbers

3. Introduce in a proper rehabilitiation system to give offenders the best chance to mend their ways.

4. Introduce a proper 3 strikes and you're out system (10 years minimum for 3rd offence)

5. Bring in super sentences (10 years+ minimum) for teenage gang attacks and attacks on elderly

6. Complete abolition of prosecution of members of public who "have a go" unless grossly disproportionate force used.

7. Establish draconian correctional institutions for habitual young offenders. Army style discipline etc.

Hows that for a start?

Onan the Clumsy
26th May 2005, 17:22
Wedge, with respect, that is the one of the most ridiculous posts I have ever read on any forum. Come come now. That's a little harsh. Have you not read one ball/cornholeyo/scrubed/scrubbed/scrubbbed and quite possibly siy247 ?

419
26th May 2005, 17:29
Once you have been slapped, that is it.
You have no right of self defence in law after the event unless the slapper attempts to slap again

I know that's the law, but how did John Prescott get away with punching a demonstrator who had thrown an egg at him?
No attempt was made to throw anything else after the initial egg.

Wedge
26th May 2005, 17:31
It's not the law, cavortingcheetah is wrong.

The force Prescott used was considered reasonable under the circumstances which is why he was not charged.

The same applies if you are 'happy slapped', you may use reasonable force to defend yourself.

DTA, some of those measures I would agree with. Others would be very difficult to implement lawfully in the light of the Human Rights Act 1998. That is perhaps the problem with the legislation, it is very well intentioned but has indeed as Michael Howard put it become a 'Charter for Chancers':

Reference Otis Ferry at The High Court today, his lawyers attempting to argue that prosecution for his invasion of the commons to protest against the hunting legislation is a breach of his Article 10 'Right to Freedom of Expression' rights. :yuk:

cavortingcheetah
26th May 2005, 17:55
;)

I doubt it.

No court considered Prescott's vicious physical attack on an egg thrower any more than his size and pugilistic prowess were weighed in the balance. He excercised and abused his parliamentary privilige in a cowardly fashion in order to avoid a private prosecution.

John Prescott's was neither charged nor brought to court for his malicious and disproportionate assault upon a member of the public. The Gestapo chickened out and refused to charge him.
The game would have been very different, I warrant, had it been either you or I doing the bashing.
Prescott simply employed his hard left Labour credentials to bully his way through an embarrassing situation using tactics that form some of the grass roots of the rather mindless and brutish union dementedly driven sinister wing of the political party that rules by default in this country.:p

Onewordanswer
27th May 2005, 02:46
Complaints about the decline in moral standards have been all the rage since the dawn of time..............seems this thread verifies this dull but perpetual "Old Fart" philosophy. :}

Doors to Automatic
27th May 2005, 09:24
Wedge

Sorry forgot one:

8. Ditch the ridiculous Criminal/Terrorist Rights Act that we have found ourselves signed up to.

That would be No 1 on my list actually

Paterbrat
27th May 2005, 18:20
Fact is that there is very little in the form of consequences for agressive rude or even violent behaviour for young offenders.

They have over the past eight years had all constraints removed in the form of discipline and accordingly go to whatever limits they can. It's what youth have done since time immemorial and will always do. Test the limits.

Trouble is the constraints have been shifted back to anarchical limits by the PC and treat em soft crowd, and anarchy is almost what we accordingly have to put up with from the wilder element.

Not all the young are like this, however the ones that do are making a meal and going to lengths which to my mind and many others is completely unacceptable. The government in the meantime does it's 3/5th of 5/8th of f***k all.

Doors to Automatic
31st May 2005, 09:57
"Fact is that there is very little in the form of consequences for agressive rude or even violent behaviour for young offenders. "

Unless you find yourself retaliating after years of provocation and in sheer desparation at which point the usless Police suddenly become very efficient and the ultra-lenient criminal-loving judiciary suddenly finds an uncanny ability to pass harsh sentences.

Nick Riviera
31st May 2005, 11:42
Wedge

My god, you really are scared of the Daily Mail aren't you. It informs your every rant. Let us hope it never goes out of business as you would have nothing to rail against. Which neatly segues into the point that this is now the third thread where I have given you the opportunity to admit you were wrong to call a certain Mail headline a lie. You know what I am talking about. Any chance you might respond this time?

Paterbrat
1st Jun 2005, 15:26
Fat chance, he simply blames it all on the Mail and every opinion voiced which isn't in line with the present government policy is that of a rabid right wing extremist Mail reader.:hmm: