Aer Lingus axe DUB MCO from 2006

[Irish Steve]

Aer Lingus said today it is to axe its service to Orlando from 14 January 2006, and has blamed the union representing cabin crews following the failure to agree to necessary work practice changes.

For more details see here (http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0511/aerlingus.html)

And then we wonder why Willy Walshe decided it was time to move on?

[akerosid]

Well, if they have any intention of increasing their t/a flights once a new bilateral is sorted out, they'll want this thing sorted out pretty quickly.

Why only MCO anyway? Does the problem only affect MCO or does it apply to all routes?

[Irish Steve]

Seems there are some union issues about the MCO route, which are probably related to the longer sector, or something of that nature, tho the LAX flight is longer, so I don't know.

Maybe it's to do with the time the crews get on layover in MCO.

There's very little information at the moment, to me, it looks like there are some politics being played.

From the load factors that I've heard about, I don't see why they want to chop this route, unless there are other issues about to emerge, given the way that anything to do with aviation is being fudged by the government at the moment.

My suspicion is that EI are getting worried about AA's plans, and want the airframe for other routes to avoid erosion of their potential, but with the way the govt is messing around, they've decided to make sure they have something available in case they can't get other aircraft in time.

Nothing would surprise me any more about aviation here, if it can go wrong, you can bet there's government influence somewhere!:}

[codpiece face]

Is this not something along the lines of EI labeling this a charter flight to get around the SNN stop?.

[WHBM]

The RTE article linked here has used to illustrate this story a photograph of an old Aer Lingus Saab 340 ! ! ! !

Only in Ireland ..........

[Irish Steve]

Is this not something along the lines of EI labeling this a charter flight to get around the SNN stop?.

It is indeed a charter flight, but for some reason that no one can explain, it lands at SNN on the eastbound, and as I understand it, sits there for whatever time is needed for the brakes to cool, and then departs to DUB. I've yet to hear of anyone boarding or leaving at SNN.

My suspicion is that there are several issues here, all of which are controversial./

The first is undoubtedly the SNN stop. If it wasn't there, one aircraft can do a DUB MCO rotation per day, but with the stop, it takes more than 24 hours, so that means the schedules have to be juggled some to do the flight. As the 330's are not all the same size and configuration, I'm assuming that this is causing problems

There are still large chunks of what was the WW plan to be implemented, and it's not going down well.

Rumour has it that the management have now decided that it's hard ball time, and that pressure has to be brought to bear to get something moving in some of the most urgent areas.

The Gov't has to get it's butt off the fence and give EI a clear and definite answer about it's future. No more fudge, or maybe or we're thinking about it, the time for all of that has come and gone, decisions have to be made if EI is to be able to compete on the North Atlantic against other carriers like AA, who were until recently a code share partner, and are now competing head to head with EI.

Cork is about to get a JFK service. I can't comment on the validity of EI providing that service, I'm not sure they've the right airframes to do it, but it's a dilution of their market. There are other issues, like fleet replacement, and costs, that won't wait for ever, decisions have to be made, and if the Gov't won't get off the fence, then they need a smart kick up the rump to force the situation.


One way or another, aviation in Ireland has to be sorted, and got to the point where it's recognised as being able to provide a massive contribution to the national economy, instead of being treated in the way it is at the moment. When that will be, I don't know, it's unlikely to happen before a change at the top, Bertie has made it all to clear that he hates flying, and that's colouring too much of what's happening at the moment. Then of course there's the entrenched attitudes of a large body of semi state workers (very vocally supported by the trade unions) who've never had to work in the "real" competitive world, and resent the possibility that they might now have to accept working conditions that have been the norm in most other parts of the economy for the last 20 years!

I just hope that this gets sorted soon, it's already affected the plans of some of my family, they've already booked and paid for flights to MCO around the time of the cancellation, and so far, EI have not sent any message about their plans. Given that it's all over the press, that's not clever.

Time will tell if this is a permanent change, or serious sabre rattling that will lead to something being sorted for the future.

[Tom the Tenor]

Very good post you have there, Steve. The airports and the airline are public service bodies. Nothing happens quickly there and as crisis ridden as they all are making a decision about anything especially anything that will have long term effects away in the future will be kicked off to touch and left to fester for as long as possible. In the meantime you will get spin from government, airports and airlines from public relations advisors. It is called crisis management. That is the way it is now in Irish aviation. People whom have no background at all whatsoever in aviaton are now the new managers! Of course, they may be lucky and do well at the job!?

[Cyrano]

Is this not something along the lines of EI labeling this a charter flight to get around the SNN stop?

I believe it's a charter flight in order to get round the US destination limitations in the bilateral, i.e. at present the only US points that Irish carriers are allowed to serve with scheduled flights are NYC/BOS/ORD/LAX (and I think BWI got some sort of derogation). I assume that charter flights don't have the same destination restriction.

I think that under the bilateral the flight would have to stop at SNN in at least one direction, whether scheduled or charter.

[Irish Steve]

I think that under the bilateral the flight would have to stop at SNN in at least one direction, whether scheduled or charter.

Correct, it's been stopping at SNN on the eastbound. From comments made to me by someone who would know, as he operates it, they land in SNN, wait for 30 minutes for the brakes to cool, and depart to DUB.

While this was not said, it would seem that it does not even pull on to a gate, but literally sits there for the 30 minutes. If that's the case, then I'm afraid I can fully understand chopping it, they are being hit with a 33% higher cycle count than a competitive operator from LGW. That's total and absolute lunacy, and unsupportable.

It seems that there are other issues as well, related to the WW plan that hasn't been fully implemented yet.

If this insanity of landing at SNN for the sake of it was not there, it would be viable to operate a daily DUB-MCO service, but the delay of going into SNN makes the round trip just that bit too long to be able to do it daily, which then means that another rotation to somewhere else has to be done on the days when it's not going to MCO. Not ideal.

Properly marketed in conjunction with flights in from UK regionals, and maybe even some European airports, this route should be an absolute winner for EI, but as it's set up at present, it can't be.

One of these days, the Gov't will get off the fence and do something positive about making aviation in Ireland the power for good that it could be within the economy.

Then again, with their track record over the last number of years, I fear pink snow is more likely.

[akerosid]

It doesn't surprise me that this is the way they operate; it must be such a pain in the behind to all involved.

However, there is light at the end of the tunnel ... I understand from inquiries I have made, that the govt can make minor changes to the bilateral, but only to the extent that it doesn't undermine the competitive advantage of other countries. This being the case, the govt could bring in a transitional wind-down period for the stopover, adjusting the DUB:SNN ratio from 1:1 to 2 or 3:1.

However, since the govt wants to announce the whole aviation package together, we have to wait until this whole terminal issue is agreed upon.

I sincerely hope EI and unions can come to an agreement quickly; there are very interesting opportunities for an airline/ country which is going to be slap bang in the middle of the world's largest open aviation area.

[Irish Steve]

there are very interesting opportunities for an airline/ country which is going to be slap bang in the middle of the world's largest open aviation area.

As I think I commented a few weeks ago somewhere else, if the right feeds were set up into SNN, as that has the expansion space, a few 380's operating to the right USA destinations could be very profitable, there are a lot of people in the UK & Europe that would be very happy to start their journey from their local airport, going in the right direction rather than the wrong way, and swap to the larger aircraft somewhere like SNN, ( or DUB for that matter, apart from the congestion problems we all know about), and continue, with the added advantage of the immigration clearance at SNN. Ireland should be selling that for all it's worth, which is becoming more by the day, given some of the crazy fines that American security will shortly start to apply if a passenger does something as silly and simple as arrive without a machine readable passport.

2 380's to (say) JFK could do 3 rotations a day, that has to be worth considering. Further afield to MCO has to be worth looking at as well, in that operators that can't justify a transatlantic from smaller airfields could use SNN as a hub.

Then of course there's the cargo potential. Imagine 380's being used pure cargo, to a hub at SNN that then distributes to the rest of europe. Has to be worth looking at.

What it needs is some vision, and courage, both of which are unfortunately sadly lacking in the politicians at present, most of the SNN area ones can't see beyond the false security of the stopover, and all that's doing now is preventing operators from flying the routes they want to fly.

Time will tell

[Bearcat]

Irish Steve, dream on re A380's out of SNN with the greatest respect if you are thinking AL will go that direction. AL has conservative written all over it. I'd love to see it happen but not in the next 20yrs. Lets see what the new CX Mr Mannion does when he goes into action in August.

Keep up the good posts.

[MarkD]

Fill some based 333s and let's see what happens eh?

A few wingleted 757s would be a nice touch too for the thinner routes :D

I think the bilateral should allow no compulsory stops between 1.10 and 30.4 each year, since winter traffic needs encouragement.

[Irish Steve]

dream on re A380's out of SNN with the greatest respect if you are thinking AL will go that direction.

I doubt EI would be willing to do it, and they'd need FR cooperation to get the feeds, and I can't see MOL agreeing anything with EI. Now, if someone was to do a long haul LoCo operation, a bit more up market than FR, <g>, using 380's and feeds from people like FR, EZ, FlyBE, Jet2, etc, I reckon if could work. There's a lot of people that don't want to spend 3 or 4 hours getting to LHR or LGW who would be prepared to travel on a LoCo initially, especially if it's going in the right direction and at the right price.

Needs some creative marketing by SNN and some operators, but it could work