A NEW pilot agency.

[Kaptin M]

Anyone else been approached by a NEW agency recently, purportedly operated by a conglomerate of ex and current airline pilots, looking to build a base of contract pilots?
The pilot shortage is certainly on a sharp increase, and airlines looking for pilots are using contract pilots now, more than they ever have, so it only makes sense that we (pilots) can expect to see an increase in agencies that are wanting to get in on the action.

These guys are offering MORE to the contracted pilots, by taking LESS for themselves (according to them). :ok:
One of the airlines using 2 different agencies, when asked why, replied that he considered the agents were basically "regional", and that to attract pilots from a broader area, his company employed the services of both.

[Lou Scannon]

Whatever they claim, NEVER NEVER NEVER give them any cash as a "Registration Fee" or whatever.

These people may be legit, but there have been others who were just bent.:suspect:

[Firestorm]

I haven't heard from them or of them, but would be interested... Got any details?

[Wizofoz]

KAP,

Doesn't involve some aircrew TRAFFICing does it?

[Horace Batchelor]

Does anybody know anything about Sigmar Aviation in Ireland? Any info very welcome.

[Hårek den Hardbalne]

The crew agencies have stopped lining up for the summer season. They are now in the mode where they rush towards the airlines with stacks of CVs from us (the pilots). When they contact you to ask if you are interested in x-contract; just remember that more than one agency is after the same contract. Very few of the agencies are sole provider of crews to one airline. It just looks like it;) Have a look at www.flightinternational.com and all the boom in India for contract pilots and agencies.

Kaptin M,

What is the name of that new agency?

Lou S,

I have been in the contract business for a good number of years, but never bumped into an agency asking for money to register with them. Have I been lucky?

Horace,

I have been in contact with Sigmar a couple of times but it never ended in a contract. And funny enough I do not know anybody working through Sigmar. And I know many contract pilots.

[Horace Batchelor]

Hårek,

TVM for the info.

Horace

[airborne_artist]

I have been in the contract business for a good number of years, but never bumped into an agency asking for money to register with them. Have I been lucky?

FWIW it is illegal to charge a registration fee in the UK, but that might not be the case elsewhere.

[Phileas Fogg]

The agencies have not stopped 'lining up' (whatever that is!) for the summer season, there are many vacancies still available, B737, B767 etc.

Please don't compare all scenario's to India, such is the Indian culture they will play agencies off against each other to get the cheapest, well below the market, rates.

With regards to Sigmir, they were advertising USD7,000 + extra's a month for ATR Training Captains in India. They didn't have the contract, they didn't have that rate approved and infact it was apporox USD1,500 per month over what the airline were prepared to pay.

Sigmir are new to the 'pilot' market and one guesses that they are attempting to build up their database by advertising contracts, at inflated salaries, that they do not have!

[Bob Down]

I registered with the Flightcrew.aero website............ no reply whatsoever.

I also notice that there is a proliferation of 'Pilot recruitment Agencies' lately, Flightcrew.aero, Virtual Human resources, Flightinfo.biz etc etc. all of whom are leaping onto the bandwagon.

Having worked for several of the 'major' agencies before, without many problems I must say, I would suggest to all pilots thinking about accepting jobs from these new guys that it is worth speaking to them before you make any decisions or most importantly any payments to them. Find out if they are 'real' and have 'real' offices not just a bedsit in Surbiton!

Find out what their processes for running their businesses are, which clients they have worked with before (especially as they probably won't tell you who they are emplying for now), and make an informed judgement then, as to whether they are likely to be in business long enough to pay you.

It is very easy to set up a 'recruitment' company on line, but it is extremely difficult to run a 'real' one. Most of these companies rely on cash flow from clients to pay their employees, and have absolutley no back up when it comes to failed payments. Caution on your part is vital.

Whilst the PARC's, Contractair's and Rishworth's of this world have and have had problems, at least they have been around a long time and will be there long enough for us to get the money out of them (even if needing to go to court to get it)... something which may not be true for these 'new' players.

It is also very obvious that all the agencies will advertise vacancies that are not 'signed off' to get their databases topped off....simply ask for a contract copy (being very willing to sign it of course!!!!!), and see what you get. You don't have to sign anything that you do get, but at least you will see who is willing to put their money where their mouths are!

Just my thoughts.

BD

[Phileas Fogg]

Bob,
I think you will find that no agency will pay the pilot until the airline pays the agency. The more honest agency will include such a clause in their contract, if it is there, do not be afraid, at least they are being honest about it but do establish for how long they have been dealing with that particular airline and of any history of non or late payment(s).

The less than honest agency will not declare such a clause but at the end of the day, bearing in mind the agency may be working on a 10% fee, they will not be in a position to subsidise the airline's payroll for a month (equivalent to 9 months of fees for them) thus the chances of the pilot getting paid, well you work it out!

[Bob Down]

Hi Phileas

Read and understood.

Completely agree the scenario as you put it regarding the payments from Airline to agency and then to pilot, however AT THE END OF THE DAY, the agency is the employer (in most cases anyway) and therefore is contractually liable for payment to the contractor, irrespective of funds received from the client airline. Thus my comment regarding the potential for retrieving the owed funds from the agency even via court.

I do not accept the excuse that an agency cannot pay you, because they have not received money from their client, that is simply not the problem of the contract pilot, it is the problem of the agency and their financial management. Thus, I would always prefer to work for an 'established' agency rather than one of the new ones, as this increases the likelihood of successful retrieval of funds.

So saying, I am not accusing any new agency of malpractice or intention to do so, merely suggesting that caution is applied when accepting work from said new 'players'.

As I say I have worked for three agencies, and not had any major issues at all, and the few minor issues have been dealt with relatively quickly and without bother.

Unlike other posters on Pprune, I have no problem with working for an agency, after all I have the option to choose to do so or not.

BD

[yyzdub]

Phileas Fogg,

Why, as an employee of a flight crew recruitment agency, use a forum like pprune.org to slander a competitor with untrue comments and 'so called' facts? There is not one thing that you mentioned with regards to Sigmar that is anywhere close to the truth. i.e. where did the 24 (13 ATR) expat pilots at Deccan come from?

Where did you learn your business ethics? Has to make you wonder if the agency you work for is one that anyone would want to have represent them.

Should anyone question this, I would be more than happy to provide you with facts and proof.

[Phileas Fogg]

Bob,
At the end of the day a pilot shouldn't have to consider court action for what he is owed, that we agree on.

YYZ,
Were I to still be in the employ of a Flight Crew Agency and were I to advertise that company here then that would be one thing. All I said was that salaries that, at that time, had not been approved by the customer airline were being advertised by Sigmar.

Perhaps Sigmar have in place the referred to Training Captains you mention, are they being paid the salary, and the trimmings that were, once, advertised, from memory something like USD7,000 + overtime, if they are then it seems that particular airline is prepared to pay ATR people more than they are A320 people!

So you are saying that Sigmar have 24 pilots with one particular Indian Airline? Are the airline paying their bills on time, will Sigmar pay the pilots on time if or when the airline default on their payment of bills as they did with Rishworths?

(There is not one thing that you mentioned with regards to Sigmar that is anywhere close to the truth)

(Sigmir are new to the 'pilot' market)

Dublin, Ireland, Thursday, 08 July 2004…Last night Sigmar Aviation was launched by an Tanaiste at an event held in the St Stephen’s Green Club. Sigmar Aviation is the first subsidiary to be created by leading Irish recruitment company, Sigmar Recruitment.

[yyzdub]

Phileas Fogg

All salaries were approved well before any postings were made. How else would Sigmar be able to offer those amounts - the figures aren't grabbed from thin air.

As for ATR and A320 contracts - again, another falsity. ATR (6000 for Captains and 7000 for TRI/ TRE) A320 (7500 for Captains and 8500 for TRI/ TREs).

As for paying pilots - bank credit drafts and insurance takes care of that should an airline default.

You have obviously gotten the raw end either by flying for AD or working with Rishworth to come out here and state things about Sigmar which are not true.

I apologise - yes, I guess a year old is new.

[Horace Batchelor]

<<.........as they did with Rishworths?.....>>

Which airline defaulted with Rishworths?