ALAEA EBA VII agreement

[REALITY]

Can you believe this ALAEA fed exec?? or more specifically the EBA negotiating committee???

They did a great job.......they have managed to screw us all!!
Transmission of business still there, overtime banking still there, minor increase in quotas which is not an EBA item anyway. But they got the reduction in allowances to 80% removed....WOW. That will help out about 2% of the membership!

Don't forget the increase to confined space payment... up 2 cents, thats right 2 cents per hour! Don't spend it all at once!

When are these useless clowns going to wake up to themselves?
We were in the driving seat applying a small amount of pressure for a favourable outcome, only to have them throw in the towell at the first round.

We need to pass the strong message to the exec that this EBA is unacceptable.

We need a change of the gaurd at Bexley.

and there is more great news. LAMEless tarmac is still on agenda, and customer payments only while working on that aircraft.

And for all this we get 3% each year. About 1.5% less that inflation

I personally would like to thank all the tossers involved for screwing up what was to be a long and prosperous career.

:mad: :mad:

[sys 4]

oh well it really looks like this is the alaea execs last eba,well done :mad: and we had the company against the ropes.

[hannibal lector]

With everybody united( except Brisbane International) we started to have solidarity and strength in the membership. I for one am proud of the people I have worked with who have galantly held out with the overtime bans for 5 months.

Thankyou to u all.

To the negotiating committee and Brisbane international LAMES :mad: I and hope karma has her way. The question has to be why we didn't have a blanket ban on overtime!!!

WHY WHY WHY.

Hope you have a lovely trip to Malaysia (Yeah we all know you go relieving there soon )
Hey why not do more overtime while you are at it. What a :mad

FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY has reared its ugly head again

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

I posted yesterday on Pprune to have crystal reply that obviously I had a hatred towards the current exec, normally I would disagree but surely at this stage I have a :mad: Valid point

Up **** Creek in a barbwire canoe with a newspaper paddle, five knot current and it's crocodile infested.

[REALITY]

are you telling us that fed pres is relieving in Malaysia?

the plot thickens....

:mad:

or will be soon?

[hannibal lector]

YEH baby not only relief work in Malaysia for a mont but continual overtime on Air Newzealand A320's while our domestic bros. have been struggling under weight of a full overtime ban.
Can't you see why they have allowed overtime on customer aircraft???????

SHAME SHAME SHAME

[Crystal Marina]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

WAKE UP TO YOUR SELVLES PEOPLE.

WHO WILL BE YOUR MESSIAH?

THE MEXICANS?

I THINK NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[Son of Brake Boy]

Who the hell wants a Messiah?

I just want a descent EBA offer.

When the guys are willing to stand up and be counted, its our union leadership that lets us down.

Anybody else in the role of union executive cant do any worse than these guys have.

Prepare yourselves for mass member resignations if you keep up these antics.

No money for expensive dinners and fancy wine....heaven forbid.

Maintain the Rage

[sys 4]

there is plenty of people in sydney willing to work with the mexicans to get a better out come then has been achieved by these useless people.

[numbskull]

If the proposed agreement contains the phrase "transmission of business" they can stick it you know where.:mad:

There is only one reason they want that clause in and that's to sell us off. I have no intention of letting 20 years worth of entitlements be guaranteed by some dodgy start up company with no assets.

If the 'transmission of business clause' has no significant impact on workers entitlements, as the union will no doubt tell us, then why won't the company drop it?

I would rather take no pay rise and let the whole place turn into s#$tfight until they are forced to offer redundancies and send the work overseas.

How good would Dixon and "the Spirit of Australia " look then!!

[Sunfish]

When you do "outsource" your maintenance, or any other function, like IT, there is one little problem that always arises - the need for quality control and administration of the outsourced contract.

Now this requires that you keep a few, just a very little few, people who have a LAME background, and perhaps licences, to keep tabs on who is doing what to who and how much Qantas is going to be paying. Now where might you find such wonderful, sensible, people, loaded with fairness and integrity??????

After reading all the allegations on this and other forums, I've always wondered what the aforesaid members of the allegedley non performing executive were going to do when there time is up because it sounds like, from their alleged behaviour, that they will not be welcome back into your community with open arms.

So my guess (and its just a guess) is that this is the last EBA you, and your executive, will ever make with QF. Both your executive and QF know it.

You guys will be shuffled off and sold to the highest bidder, however your little mates in the executive will stay behind at QF as contract administrators of the maintenance contract.

Thats why they aren't fighting. They are protecting their reputation for integrity, sensibility and fairness - and their right to wear a tie to work. One wonders if they are being "looked after".

As for the allegation that your Pres has been getting overtime while you were not, plus a "holiday" in Malaysia, I am amazed at how easy it is to corrupt people, and how cheap the price is, but thats Sydney for you.

Sorry for the **** stirring, but something has been done to "look after" certain people otherwise they would have been fighting the transmission of business clause. I've watched it being played before in an IT outsourcing project, thankfully from a safe distance.

Having said all that, you just might find that being "outsourced" may be the best thing that has ever happened to you, and you will all be laughing all the way to the bank in a few years time.

I've seen it happen once. Management thought they had done a fast one by flogging off the equivalent of a clapped out Commodore. However after two years diligent work and a bit of polish they were embarrased to realise that they had sold off a Rolls Royce instead!

[DirectAnywhere]

Surely the EBA has to be voted on by the membership?

If you're not happy - which seems to be the impression I'm getting - if you and a majority of your colleagues vote NO, negotiations have to start again.

Make sure your Executive knows how you feel and what you want from YOUR EBA. It's up to you all, not just the negotiating committee to get what you want.

I know what I'd be doing if my EBA came back with 3% plus offsets.

[vortsa]

Unfortunately, there will only be one vote at these meetings, and that will be whether to accept or reject offer. The ASN are going to protect their position and continue to control the process by not allowing any votes or motions from the floor.

"DICKtakers" string em up.

[fordran]

Make sure your Executive knows how you feel and what you want from YOUR EBA. It's up to you all, not just the negotiating committee to get what you want.

In an ideal situation that would be the case but our Executive lives in fantasy land. They have on many occasions ignored the direction given to it by our members. For example last EBA was overwhellmingly rejected. We then voted in favour of Industrial action with 79% in favour. Do you think they took it? No no no. They voted the members again at port meetings. Same result. They waited months and did nothing and came back again telling us all that we'd lose 10 months backpay. It was about this time the members realised that their own Executive was on a different agenda and would never support us. We now wait for day they all get ousted. Then we may get a say.

Vote no. Then vote no again. We don't need a new agreement. The new Exec can work on it in 12 months time.

[Sunfish]

Fordran. with respect. this is the "Last" EBA. The executive won't be there to be voted out next time around because you will all be working for something other than QF.

To put it another way, the executive doesn't care who you vote for next time around, There isn't going to be a "next time" as far as they are concerned. They already have their exit strategy (into QF management?) ready for them.

As for QF, they don't care if you reject the offer because once the Liberal party has control of the Senate, the industrial laws will be changed in their favor.

[Turbo 5B]

Can we outsource our executive functions to the lowest bidder?
We could include performance bonuses, paid for by the members instead of performance bonuses paid under the table by the company.

[The masked goatrider]

Now, now don't make inference that our fine team of leaders are selling us out in favour of bags of money under the table. They are just doing it for the love of the company.

[N.E.R.D.]

Check out what our elected representitives have to say about the EBA offer.
http://glsol.com/airboard/viewtopic.php?t=158&start=15


It looks like executive seem to think our backpay is a bonus for being good boys and taking the offer.
Vote NO and then bring back the bans. Get all the ports, departments and lines on board. These officials are so out of touch with the workers it is now beyond criminal.
I can not believe we voted these blokes in !
Brand me as the vocal minority and a trouble maker but most LAMES I know have been Pi$$ed off for 3 EBA's and have had enough. The Executive prey on fear and play Line and Heavy off on each other.
We are to blame for allowing them to go in a direction that the union body does not want, the rot needs to be cut out. Stop their secretive little deals and meetings. Stop the withholding of information. Take the motions from the workers and act on them!!

[Crystal Marina]

It seems to me that this EBA7 in principle agreement may not be as popular as the exec first thought.

Well guys and gals if you are not happy with it let the exec know how you feel, in writing.

No use bashing your gums on here, as it just falls on death ears. Email them and let them know how you feel about this agreement and what course of action you want them to take.

Do it quickly because next Wednesday 18th May the exec will meet to decide your fate.:ok: :mad:

[The masked goatrider]

It seems to me that this EBA7 in principle agreement may not be as popular as the exec first thought.

Then put the bans back on T1.

[Mr Qantas]

The goat rooter can never be pleased but I thought youse on our side CM. The offer is a good one when you consider all the turmoil in the industry right now. I has spoken to many many members and were all pleased to see the end of this thing. Most of us dont even work in hm so who cares what hapens there the work will go overseas if they dont like it. As for 3% I think is fair and all this crap about inflation being higher well its not. They reckon its 2.8% so 3% is a genorous offer and must be accepted. If you fools dont the backpay will disapear and so will the grade adjustments so just get over yourselves and think about the future. Send all your posotive feedback to trustee1 at the ALAEA and it will get looked after.

[Sunfish]

Yeah mate, send your emails and criticism to the executive so that they can tell Qantas Management.

There is zero trust of the Executive.

Furthermore Mr. Qantas, the net take home pay after adjustment for taxation is less than three percent because of the effect of taxation.

[Mr Qantas]

How dare you cast these slandorous disperions on our executive. They dont give them an inch when they negotiate and the last thing theyed do is give them names so retract that garbage or ill report you to the moderater. As for take home pay and tax you just got a nice big tax cut add on top 3% and most lames will be over $100 bucks a week better in the sky rocket so stop the whinging.

[sys 4]

Mr Qantas, what do you think will come your way under K Clark when he has heavy and base maint under his control.
Why are you in a union when you only care about yourself, go and sign an AWA.
I should think that steam clean should be out sourced soon anyway.

[Woomera]

It's back with some editing of unecessary though maybe heartfelt observations.:p

We have no position on the matter under discussion that is for you, our experience here tells us that a cause is not advanced by intemperant language. It simply gives the other side the opportunity to diminish you in the eyes of others.:ok:

[socks]

Woomera, I marvel at your patience, wisdom and understanding. You are a leading light to all other Moderators and I acknowledge your sensitivity in allowing this thread to continue.

What has been expressed here and in other recent threads is not merely a case for greater wages but a call to arms to slow the degredation of airline safety. I think you understand this and have allowed the debate to continue but have endevoured to tone down the emotion.

There is real concern among engineers and airline staff, that the direction that the market is pushing airlines to take to earn greater profits is a scary one. It will ultimately lead to sad times for families across the globe in years to come.

There is a good reason here for airlines to stay under Government control. It is now a service industry, a means of transporting large volumes of people that modern society has a need to commute. No longer a fat cow for entrepeneurs to play with, railways were run by Governments for many years to deliver just such a service. Aircraft are the new generation of trains in the sky and the public need a reliable safe mode of transport without the burden of cost whittling away at its infrastructure.

Some of the most successful Airlines are still managed by Governments and make profits. I say take back the airlines from the rich and give it into the hands of Governments so that we all can be share holders in our future and safety.

[hangar 9]

Sunfish wrote:
You guys will be shuffled off and sold to the highest bidder, however your little mates in the executive will stay behind at QF as contract administrators of the maintenance contract.

I think what Socks is saying is that we must be vigilant, and when decisions are made by some to have a greater influence on many it may only profit a few.

Government decisions are made to profit many, and not always with the view to making money. Many Government railways run at a loss but continue to service the public, for the greater good.

I think the Engineers would probably forego a lousy 3% pay increase if they could see a change in philosophy by management to keep the status quo.

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Great post Socks, you hit the nail right on the head on all fronts

I look forward to more of your input

Cheers

[INCOGNIT0]

As I have seen the over the years Q is using our geographical location to it's advantage in it's demeaning propaganda campaign by distorting reality,mislaying the facts and promoting the easily manipulated 'YES' men as their perversive arms of power who perform this perversion and subvertion through misinformation and intimidation.The aviation world isn't in turmoil,it isn't losing enormous amounts of money,quite the contrary,profits are up across the board and airlines with a management with any nous and ability are embracing it by trimming areas that have grown gluttenous,like middle management and over pampered flight attendants to name a few, and now looking upon maintenance as a potential major earner for an established airline with the technical expertise,infrastructure and manufacturer's support to offer a very viable and profitable third party aircraft MRO.Overseas freighter airlines are sprouting everywhere with a huge demand for 747's due to their reliability cost and load carrying ability .They are being dragged out of the desert and these fledgling airlines are looking for MRO's with 74 experience to do the return to service checks.This is where Q just can't cut it,it tried to jump on the train with the opening of AVV but has inevitably failed through lack of proper management and foresight,you can't employ sh!t do do quality just as you can't employ quality to do sh!t.Until Q recognises it's failings and embraces the future,acts like private company not a public service and starts to repect the Australian LAME/AME for the quality we deserve and pay to hold onto this expertise then the morale will continue to drop (if it can drop any lower) and quality LAME's and AME's will continually walk out the door and into jobs outside and OS with higher remuneration and respect, and once recognised by these outside organisations as talented, well trained technical expertise they will not be let go which will eventually leave Q on the verge of the very serious collapse in experience and quality.Quick fixes don't work as AVV is a prime example of and surely Q have to realise this as it watches their investments walk out the door,are they that short sighted that they can't remember back to the early millennium pre AN collapse when they were in crisis through lack of manpower,it will happen again and thinking Asia's MRO's will make all their problems go away is farcical.People only fly Q for their perceived safety not service so let's hope Q's management realise this before it's too late,Q should be appeasing the customers through service and quality not the shareholders through theatrically presented ambiguity

[Turbo 5B]

Give that person a standing ovation:D

[ZIP TY]

:yuk:
Why are the company and/or the executive trying to divide us between Heavy & Line? Just remember if this EBA gets pasted and screws H/M, Line will be next and there WILL be NO support from H/m for any issues effecting Line in the future.


Stand united and we can win over these self centred drop kicks.

:confused:

[Redstone]

Talking to a guy from SIT the other night and he was worried about the wording of the approval clause. Said if his susspisions were correct he stood to loose a fair bit........... This EBA effects all of us, if we let the company drive wedges in then they have won not only the battle but the war also.

SOLIDARITY

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

"We're all in the one boat so we better start rowing"

You Guys hit the mark we gotta stick together keep each other informed of our concerns Communication is the key.

That is why the company let's the exec do it's bidding and deliver the document to the members in person
IT'S THE ONLY TIME THEY LEAVE THE OFFICE
then sad sack can preach his sad tale of woe and troubled times.

Sold down the river again.........
I'm drowning.............
I'm drowning...........

Hey ! there's someone pushing me under ?

[CASEY JONES]

CASEY JONES
Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
posted 20th May 2005 04:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

O/T banking is not a big issue for most but it is a great win for QF - after all no other unions have weakened to this demand at either H/M Melb or Syd, 3% gives QF the right to demand nothing.
I think QF management would be wrapped though to see how willing ALAEA exec are to participate once again in their favorite ploy of sacrificing the minority while encouraging I'm right jack attitude in the majority.
Another reason I'd be happy if I was Cox Vincent or Clark is that if I was setting up to outsource heavy & line maint to a third party labour hire company( very doable ) then I couldn’t ask for a better bunch of blokes to thrash out the issues with than the ALAEA EBA neg committee
I'm sure they hope that this EBA is finished quickly so these issues along with LAME-less tarmac can be sorted before the ALAEA boys get the boot. How well will the QF look after them when they have no one to sell out ?
There are long term ramifications for all LAMEs in this EBA ie some line guys forced to the hangers with the heavy guys & only o/t bankers offered the extra hours / don't worry though this won't happen to our current EBA neg group.
We might not end up with much of a pay deal but we must stand together & earn some respect as a group regardless of how keen our office bearers are to ingratiate themselves to management.
We should all remember the one golden QF rule no matter what your grade level or dept a good employee /LAME is a cheap one.

[numbskull]

The agreement is basically giving you a CPI increase for no trade offs. Not a fantastic win but the minimum acceptable outcome in my view. It keeps our wage in line with inflation and thats all.

I know people who have worked with OT banking in Avalon and they say it is good. It gives people the opportunity to get extra money as well as extra time off from their horrible roster. The company has to give 48 hrs notice so they can't just spring it on you. That said, the whole thing is voluntary anway so no one can be "shafted".

For all those who are unhappy with agreement- what is it you want?

4,5,6,7% ??? Extra conditions???

Even if we were to reject this package and were succesful in getting a better deal (which is highly debatable- last time we rejected an EBA we ended up accepting a lesser deal) It is going to cost dearly in the short term.

I can't be bothered going through 3 months of ot bans,higher duties bans, stop work meetings and possibly strikes for at best a marginally better deal and at worst, a lesser deal.

[hangar 9]

So why have an EBA, if we never get anything for trading off efficiencies, and when there is nothing left to trade????

We give them money back to keep our jobs?????

Is our commitee going to say again that this is the best we could get BUT we will have a better chance next time, the timing was wrong this time, the company is going through a difficult time and can't afford anything better,hang in there guys there is light at the end of the tunnel, we have your best interest at heart????

I have heard it all before.......it won't work this time ! ! !

[ZIP TY]

numbskull
Have you actually read the offer? No trade offs my *&$@!!
What about the licence payments for aircraft that will soon not be QF tpyes ie Jet Connect 737-3/400's.Have a good read and think about how long before company/exec attack current tpyes.

If YOU want o/t banking then it should apply to ALL LAME's not just H/M and should not be so subject to QF control.

What about all the extras QF have thrown at us? Jetsmart, Lean Stimga, Safty observation's etc, Project 221 in Melb is supposed to deliver $15 Million in savings. We put the hard yards in and should be renumerated accordingly. I'm sick of funding large bouns's for managerment.

Remember our wage freeze. I,d be happy for a 4.5%p.a. increase and NO changes to current conditions as the bere minimum acceptable outcome.

What,s going to happen when times do get tough? What are YOU willing to give up for the next EBA ?

Heavy Maint is targeted this time and it dosen't take a rocket scientist to work out that Line is next in the sights!!:mad: :mad:

Don't be so short sighted! Think about not only your hip pocket but future LAME's.Remeber eventually the numbers of LAME's not covered by these Grandfather clause's will out number those who are and their not going to give a tinkers toss about YOUR conditions if it dosen't apply to them.

[vortsa]

Thought for the week

"path of least resistance" is often not the most rewarding...

[REALITY]

hey pal, you are a ignorant selfish fool. Can't be bothered? Great attitude for securing and preserving a worthy future in this industry. It is the short sightedness of people such as you that will make this industry not worth working in.

I agree that we will not get much of a better deal, particularly with the incompetent negotiating committee that we are forced to endure (only for approx 12 more long months), but we need to send a clear message to management that we stand as one, and any changes made to our working conditions whether in Line, Heavy, Base or other will need to be negotiated for an outcome that is suitable for all involved.

My point is clear, if LAME's around country want a long and prosperous future, then stick together. Any reduction in conditions regardless how minor or how few they affect, are a reduction in all of our conditions...and for a measly 3%, NO WAY.

We work for Qantas, a company with a great safety record. Why follow in the footsteps of Low Cost Carriers and reduce the wages and conditions of those that ensure this safety record stays in tact?

[Turbo 5B]

Numskull says "I know people who have worked with OT banking in Avalon and they say it is good. It gives people the opportunity to get extra money as well as extra time off from their horrible roster. The company has to give 48 hrs notice so they can't just spring it on you. That said, the whole thing is voluntary anway so no one can be "shafted".

It has to be the most beneficial OT bank that the company could want. Have a look at the BNE Ame O/T bank..it's much more employee friendly.
But because the only option put forward is the one on the table we could get stuck with the cr@p.
Heavy Maintenance employees don't even get a chance to have a say in their own conditions.
It will be decided by Line and Base employees on the direction of the Federal Executive.
That is why I'm so p!ssed off with the whole thing for a start.

[AN LAME]

Turbo 5B

Could you elaborate on the BNE AME O/T Bank to give us an idea of the differences to what has been proposed as I thought the EBA proposal WAS the BNE model?

[Turbo 5B]

The ame ot bank doesn't require 38 hrs to be banked before you can use the hours you have earned. There is a limit to how many hours a year the company can use ie 38 hrs in one year max, without mutual agreement. If you want to you can use the hours before you earn them and then pay them back with your next shift.
It doesnt have the stupid shift penalty clause.
If the company wants to stand you down on a sunday (if you work critical path) then its up to them to pay you your penalties.
Just think of this example ... you "volunteer" you work o/t on thurs and fri..8 hrs in total, the company stands you down on a sunday and makes you use 16 hours of the bank that you are trying to accrue. Thats fair ,isn't it?
It is much tighter in controlling the company than the alaea proposed deal.
The alaea model is one that they thought up in a hurry so they could sign a memorandum of understanding so that the BNE sight would go ahead.
The AWU hung back and discussed all the issues before the workers started in BNE and came up with some better solutions.
I don't even think that the LAMES in BNE are using the bank system yet due to admin problems.

[numbskull]

If you don't like it, don't join it. The OT bank is VOLUNTARY!!!

[Orville]

Welcome back from your holidays AN Lame

[Turbo 5B]

Numbskull, you've missed the point. It may only be voluntary but as it affects only Heavy maint then it should only be employees of heavy that have a say in whether or not it gets implemented or not. It should also be discussed ampngst heavy as to what form it should be in.
If the company came up and said we need h/m to work extended hour shifts for no extra penalties or Melbourne might go under would you as an employee outside of heavy have a right to decide this.
I might not mind the concept of o/t banking. I might even like to work it some day , but I will not work to the model that has been presented.
If the executive had come to H/M and had the extensive consultation that was promised and allowed open discussion over it's merits or the form that it has been presented then these things would have come to the surface.
Also what happened to the promise that it will be decided by heavy maintenance and if they don't want it it will not be part of the agreement.
If you believe everything that the company tells you you must be gullible.
I believe that the Bargaining committe does.
The line that it is either o/t bank for heavy or a sharply worded Transmission of business clause for everyone is stupid.
How about this reply to them?
Neither without substantial payrises.
The other big issue is that the cases that the company were using to add their T O B clause is no longer relevant.
A judge has ruled that that case can no longer be used as a precedent as it was an anomily.
The case was where a business was sold and its employees got new jobs doing the same thing with the new company i.e kept their jobs. They then realised that their eba was worded so that they could get a redundancy payment as well. It went to court and the employees won. Qantas did not want to be in that boat.
But as I said the judge has ruled that that case cannot be used as a precedent and thus Qantas's arguement falls down.
The Alaea should know that and stop using Heavy Maintenance as a bargaining tool.
It should also stop peddling lies about the impact of T O B.
Trustee 1 of the Association has stated that if a T O B comes in and Mel H/M goes under then people would lose their redundancy payments. What an outrageous load of $hit.
Numbskull you should open your eyes and ears and listen to people other that the ALAEA executive.
There's more to it than "it's Voluntary" look at the big picture.

[ZIP TY]

:confused:
Hey numbskull. The o/t banking is complusary for 6 month periods if you decide to "volunteer". Have a damn good read of the EBA yourself and don't listen to the @#$% dished out by the usless self serving executive. Remember once the thin edge of the wedge is in, the thick bit soon follows.

[Turbo 5B]

And the biggest wedge at the moment is that square sided one being driven in by the executive from the ALAEA.

[fordran]

Do my eyes deceive me or has this thread been given 4 stripes? It was even removed to the tool shed for several days editing.

Voluntary my a. What do you think will happen if you don't become one of the suckhole volunteers. I know who will get preference for training, o/t and promotions. Somehow I don't exactly consider Q an equal opportunity employer.

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Vote NO, Settle back for some blood spillin'

There about to sell us off and three fricken percent is all they offer us

Eat Sh#t and die :mad:

[AN LAME]

Senator Joe McCarthy had nothing on you paranoid nutcases

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

Ooooh, so once again you grace us with you presence and snide remarks, keep them for the d!ckheads from melbourne:yuk:

[Trash Hauler]

From an Aussie who hates to see the farm being sold off.

Is the 'Transmission of Business' clause still in the EBA?

[Redstone]

It certainly is Trash Hauler, all be it a reversion back to eba4 I think? But you have to realise that if the farm is sold to old man MacDonald, he may not want to retrench anyone. So if you are not happy with the conditions of the new farmer, you put up or you walk with 4 weeks pay+annual etc..... no package.

[Trash Hauler]

Thanks Redstone...............I hope for all the maintenance folks that QAL realise maintenance is a product worth having. Unfortunately money is the only language they understand.

Don't they realise they are dealing with real people and their families. Keep the fight up!

[Turbo 5B]

We have always had Transmission of business in our award and eba's.
The only difference with the companies original offer (" that we all worked very hard for seven months to get rid of and we should all be proud ") was an additional clause attached to the redundacy clause.
This is the acceptable alternative employment clause.
This means that if a redundancy condition arose,but Qantas found another job for you outside of the qantas group that had essentially similar conditions then you were obliged to take that position. No package available.
However if the suitable employment doesnt carry the same conditions that you currently work under it is not suitable.
Therefore package offered.
The reason for this clause is obviously to relieve Qantas of some finacial burden should they need to sack us.
The reality is that to find a suitable position offering the same money and entitlements for your average Qantas employed Lame is no piece of cake.Damn near impossible. Think of the conditions that you currently work under ..include staff travel,long service leave and a reasonable redundancy provision.
So really it wasn't such a huge victory on our behalf to have Qanats remove the suitable employment clause. It was a good move if the clause wasn't strenghthened to protect us better.
However it wasn't such an issue as to trade off it's removal for ot banking and different payment rates for heavy and line/base maint.
What we should have said, as many other unions have is "we are not happy to have your clause worded that way so do not include it in the EBA...Full Stop.
ps Heavy maintenance have indicated that they are not happy to incorporate an O/T bank into their work conditions so do not include that either. Full stop.
Come back with a different offer of much higher monetary value if you wish to include either of them.

[fordran]

Come back with a different offer of much higher monetary value if you wish to include either of them.


How dare the members request through their union a bigger wage rise. Unless I'm mistaken aren't the 2000 Qf lames there to support the seven ALAEA officials negotiating the EBA? If we ask for more money then they won't get looked after and we can't have that.

[Crystal Marina]

You see people that the truth of the matter is that although you are all galant whilst in the group environment when you settle down on your own the sensible logic returns.

There are but a handful of radicals amoungst you who love to dance in the spotlight and beat their chests. The rest merely suffer their display. The radicals will always be radicals but the rest go away and make their own decisions away from the influence of the showmen.

Then when the EBA gets voted in the showmen scream "RIGGED" but in actual fact the showmans dance has been to no avail and they have merely made asses of themselves. The truth of the matter is that the sensible ones have ignored the showmen andt look at them and snigger. With all your ranting and raving in the end we the sensible ones have stitch you up behind your back. We support you in public but stab you in private. Hence the reason for private polls were people are not influenced by the dancing hairy chest beaters.

Life then goes on to another EBA hopefully negotiated by sensible men. In the meantime get used to this one.

[Turbo 5B]

What do you know of transmission of business mr crystal?
You're the resident insider of the executive.

[hangar 9]

Cyrstal Marina, You talk as if the know all. Too many times in history have millions of people just walked silently to their graves without giving any fight, when in fact if they had only turned on their captures they would have lost some but saved many. You see they also were being brain washed into thinking they were in a hopeless position and the best thing to do was just go with the crowd and not make a fuss.

You should not take for granted that your SS Gestapo tactics are going to work this time. Many more realise that this is our last chance and on the other side of the doors lies death and emptiness. I for one will be fighting til they slam the door shut. You can count my protest vote now.

[The masked goatrider]

We know who you are CM. Your comments are typical of a coward.

[Crystal Marina]

The Masked Goatrider,

Everyone knows who you are! Not just "we".

Hangar 9,

Great post. Did someone write it for you? If things are that bad seek alternative employment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[Turbo 5B]

There's not many cowards on the Fed Exec is there?
Only those who vote against the wishes of the local membership.
How did you vote CM?
The same as TZ & GH.
Did you vote as you should have?
What was your workplace saying to you?

[Crystal Marina]

Turbo 5B,
What makes you think I am on the executive? I obviously have you fooled.

I am sure that whoever TZ and GH are, they voted for the betterment of the LAME's in general and probably to save your shabby ass.

[sys 4]

your arrogance CM knows no bounds,to say GH and T knows what's good for me is rubbish.Only i know what is good for me. D*%khead.
Robert Mugabbie of Zimbabwe also thinks he knows what's best for his people and look where that has lead them.

[Crystal Marina]

Sys 4,
The difference here is that you get a fair vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Turbo 5B]

But do we get fair representation inside the executive enclave in bexley?
I think not.
Why do I think you're on the executive?
Because only an insider would know the Mantra so well.
By the way who is paying the wages for the executive members to do the "yes " vote roadshow?
Qantas or the Alaea members?

[Sunfish]

CM joined 5 March and has consistently been on the side of the executive. Draw your own conclusions.

[sys 4]

CM would that be a fair vote through ELECTIONS AUSTRALIA

[fordran]

Like most members of the Fed Exec he is a couple of years behind the rest of us.

[Crystal Marina]

No Sunfish, Just purely a realist!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Turbo 5B, The executive are paid by the company when they are rostered on. They are not paid for their days off during the roadshow, this time is all voluntarily donated to the association and its members.

I think you get a very fair representation by the exec in more ways than are apparent to the average member.

I don't know, why do you think I am on the exec? Maybe I just keep close corresponence with someone who is or I have been on a past exec or belonged to another union and knew the workings of the ALAEA or maybe I am a nobody that has an interest in the continued good work of the ALAEA or maybe I just have an interest in the survival of the aviation industry in Australia or maybe I'd like to see you keep your job and feed ur family or maybe I don't want to see your job go to someone overseas or maybe I am an industrial reform advocate or just have an interest in industrial relations.

Many possibilities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[REALITY]

One thing that is certain Crystal marina, is that you are a liar. And a bad one, SF.

F!!k You.

[Crystal Marina]

Sys 4,

I believe it would be a fair vote through Elections Australia. As far as I know they are an independent organisation and are not affiliated with either party. Their credability and survival as an organisation would be dependent on their unbiased operation.

Elections and voting are normally carried out this way so as both parties can maintain at arms length approach from the results, hence not attracting claims of impropriety or corruption.

Reality, I think you should have a reality check.:ok:

[REALITY]

and the lies from CM (SF) continue.............................

By the way CM (SF), I hear you didn\'t last long in your roadshow meetings in Syd HM...... too many lies perhaps??

[Eagleboy69]

I heard that he was asked to leave by the FED SEC after he told some of the members and a delegate to F%#k %ff.....

Who is giving Elections Australia the list of names and addresses ?

Who is going to verify that the list is correct and that there are no extra's.... like the HR department ?

[hangar 9]

Crystal Marina

A lot of maybes' or maybe you can't make up your mind. You have forgotten where your loyalties lie, maybe.

[Mr Qantas]

I like the way you saying the things that I feel CM. I know your sensable and level headed coments have been apreciated by the staff in my area. We kind of getting sick of the Mexicans show boating on the pilot forum.

[Crystal Marina]

Mr Qantas, Thank you.

[Bumpfoh]

Now I,m going to be ill!:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Reality

I see CM has no smart comeback to your insightful imformation, but wait, I'm sure were bound to get another devisive remark regarding members who live in a state other than NSW!!!:suspect:

[REALITY]

Crystal Marina, it is just as well for the travelling public that you are nothing more than a chair mechanic. I am sure a clerk could do that just as well. If not, any cheap labour could replace you and I for one, will have no hesitation in certifying for their work just to see the back of your fat arse.

Will you respond to the question relating to your typical attitude at the "sell the EBA" meetings held in HM Syd? I doubt it, although the truth is already well known.

To both CM and Mr Qantas: that's the ticket, let's divide not just HM and Line via this crappy EBA, but lets divide all the different states too, cause I have heard that's the best way to secure our futures. F**ken tossers.

Go back to flying (or crashing) helicopters one nut.

[sys 4]

looks like CM's lazy days are near over as Cabin Interrior will now become part of base maint/HM(core maint) where the twit will have to sign for more critical systems than a toilet tank sys or a seat actuator.
Now we will see who is an overpaid prima donna.

[Turbo 5B]

Oh, come on everyone. That's not SF Trustee 1. You can tell by the language and the fact that no big words that are superfluous have been used. Crystal has been with the company for 40 yrs or so he said. Maybe he honestly believes what he says.
As an exec member I think he is just naive.
I feel sorry for him really.
He's just the new mouthpiece of the ALAEA.

[Crystal Marina]

Turbo 5B,

Finally someone that actually believes that I am not Trustee1 like I have been trying to tell everyone. Thank you for your belief.

[Turbo 5B]

But you can't fool me, I know you're still on the executive.
Are you the new official spokesperson on internet sites after trustee 1 was sinbinned for being a d!ckhe@d.

[Eagleboy69]

It's so bloody obvious that he is on the executive...

He fails to listen to anything that is said unless it mimics his perverted view on life...

40 years, maybe that is long enough...

Maybe he life his fellow exec member G.H. is looking to get the pay rise through before he is offered and takes one of the redundancies that is on offer in the next few months under the New Sydney Maintenance Plan.

Turbo,

Are you feeling alright mate ?

You use to have so much energy, now your a little soft...

Have they got to you too ?

[Turbo 5B]

Never let them know what your next move will be.
It's just the calm before the storm!
But thanks for the concern, anyway.

[Mean, Nasty & Tired]

QF on one side - big, bad bully.

Exec on other side - small, gutless jellyfish.

Members locked in centre - adaptive, able men.

Each a generalisation but over the past six months shown to be true.

I'm sick to death of being a pawn to both the company and the Exec.

In short I'm Mean, Nasty and Tired.

Simply put to both,


Smile now whilst you still have teeth

:* :E :ok:

[Bumpfoh]

M,N & T

mine and I imagine the vast majority of members sentiments exactly! :E

[Motorola]

MNT don't forget the other sensitive body parts :ouch:

[Crystal Marina]

What an absolutely sad lot you are.

Build a bridge and get over it boys.:ok:

[Ultralights]

theres no point building a bridge if there is no other side to get too!

[Crystal Marina]

Ultralights,
Ishould have known to add you to the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

[Ultralights]

Whoohoo i made the list! and at qantas as well! too bad i dont work there anymore.

[Turbo 5B]

Is this list an official list? Or is it a list of those you wish to send christmas cards to?
Can I go on it as well?

[REALITY]

CM

add me to your pathetic little list.

you have been on mine since the day we met.

your time will come.

[Crystal Marina]

Reality & Turbo 5B,
Consider it done

[Turbo 5B]

I'll send you a christmas card CM. Who do I adress it to?
............ care of Bexley Alaea office?

[hangar 9]

c
Can I be on the list too?

[sys 4]

can i be on your list as well CM,you sound like a top bloke ,i'd love to send YOU something

[Turbo 5B]

The list should be published in the E-torque magazine.

How about it Crystal?

[Bumpfoh]

Anyone for "rabbit stew"?

how about you CM??:E :ok: