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BRL
8th May 2005, 13:01
Hi all. Need help with a screw. :O

I have a screw that will not come out of its place. It is very small and awkward to get to. Problem is the head of the screw is worn and the screwdrivers just spin around in it. Thought about drilling into it but it is really small and can't find a bit small enough.

How on earth can I get it out?

Cheers...... :hmm:

wigga
8th May 2005, 13:07
tried any lubricants on it? such as CRC (i don't know if you guys have it over there though :P)

try smashing it out with a chisel?

Take a picture! hehe, A picture explains a thousand words.

Scenic Route
8th May 2005, 13:07
try putting some bluetac on the top of it and then use the drilly thing. worked for me once

DX Wombat
8th May 2005, 13:11
What about finding an old screwdriver and using a blob of superglue to stick it to the screw head? We use a similar method with a cotton bud and blob of superglue for removing foreign bodies from a child's ear. :ok:

cyclicmicky
8th May 2005, 13:11
If it is not too small, try tapping it out in the direction of the un-screwing thread with a very sharp hard-tip chisel on the outer edge of the screw..........sometimes works, other than that drill the head off with a larger drill then extract the screw with a pair of grips by gripping the remaining stud left when the head has been removed.:ok:

tony draper
8th May 2005, 13:23
One has been in this situation a few times and have tried most of the recomended methods with little success,you will prolly find it quicker to drill it out, any good tool shop will sell high speed twist bits down to very small diameter.
:cool:

BRL
8th May 2005, 13:43
Picture of the thing here............. (http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/screw.JPG)

It is the top one that looks knackered.....

rustle
8th May 2005, 13:46
Hit is with a small sharp chisel, turn it into a slotted screw.

Solid Rust Twotter
8th May 2005, 13:48
Convert it to a flat head screw by filing or cutting a groove in the head.

Alternatively, use a bonding paste like Pratley's to firmly secure an old screwdriver in the head. Allow to set solidly and gently unscrew after lubricating with a penetrating oil.

cyclicmicky
8th May 2005, 13:48
I have seen something called an easy out, you have to drill a hole and the push the easy out in to it and then it releases the screw.
It is cylindrical in shape with splines that bite into the metal in a similar fashion to a reamer.
Don't know where to get one though, you could try a google!!
:ok:

rustle
8th May 2005, 13:51
EZI-out. Works by being LH threaded so as you screw it in, it is screwing the stuck screw out.

Usually ends up with one snapped ezi-out stuck in the hole, and since they're case-hardened steel it will be there forever (as will the screw you wanted to remove) ;)

cyclicmicky
8th May 2005, 13:53
Found it!

Here it is!! (http://www.jensentools.com/product/group.asp?parent_id=64755)
:ok:

Onan the Clumsy
8th May 2005, 14:18
It is cylindrical in shape I thought they were very slightly conical in shape, or to be totally pedantic, they are shaped like the frustrum of a cone :8

I was going to say easy out, but they work best with larger bolts and tend to break with smaller items like this screw.

btw, the problem you are seeing can come from two of several sources: (1) mixing posidrive and phillips as they only look the same or (2) using a mechanical source like a drill.

The offending screw looks like a pan head, so you probably wont be able to get a pair of vise grips (a mole wrench) onto the head as there won't be enough to bite on.

I have had success with using a cold chisel to turn the item, though usually with nuts, not screws.

Turning it into a slotted screw is also a viable idea, but I would do this slowly and carefully and make my groove with a dremmel tool or some other type of rotary cutter.


btw, whatever method you do use, do it very slowly and carefully, preferably with the item in a vise, as every attempt you make will degrade the situation, and you may eventually find a winning solution, only to realise you've already FUed your piece BAR.

btw, What kind of gun is it anyway?

terryJones
8th May 2005, 14:18
A brand new screwdriver bit, and an impact screwdriver. You will probably have to get the bit mounted into a socket that fits the end of the impact driver, as they are normally half inch square drive. You may also have to get a 'longer' screwdriver bit, but they are available up to about 6"
Good luck BRL

Onan the Clumsy
8th May 2005, 14:24
Good idea, I didn't think of that one. Got a set in the shed, but not used it often.

worse comes to worse and you HAVE to get it out, you could always (get someone to) weld some rod stock onto the vestigal screw head and use that for applying rotational force. It's a little like Whitby though - bit of a last resort.

18-Wheeler
8th May 2005, 14:40
If it is not too small, try tapping it out in the direction of the un-screwing thread with a very sharp hard-tip chisel on the outer edge of the screw.

That's the way to do it.

Get a punch with a fairly narrow or even sharp end, put the end near the periphery of the screw and just hammer it out.
It'll work, it just feels kinky the first time. ;)

acbus1
8th May 2005, 15:25
If none of the previous work and provided you don't damage the centre of the mashed screw slot.........

Purchase a drill called a centre drill (also called a Slocombe drill). Engineers supplies....Yellow Pages. Phone around to see who has. Take one of the good screws out and take it with you when you buy the centre drill. The smaller pilot point of the centre drill should be less than the core (bottom of the thread groove) diameter of the screw thread and the main body of the drill should be greater than the outside diameter of the screw thread.

Also purchase a high speed steel drill of the core diameter (bottom of the thread groove) of the screw thread.

Drill slowly and carefully with the centre drill to ensure that it remains centred on the axis of the stuck screw. Centre drills are very brittle. If you break the centre drill and it sticks in the screw, you're......screwed.......it's very hard steel. Lubricate with oil (car engine oil, 3-in-1.....whatever). Keep clearing the swarf (metal waste) every few seconds to avoid jamming (compressed air jet ideal).

Centre drills are superb at staying on centre. Normal twist drills wander off centre. Hence the need for a centre drill.

Eventually, the screw head will part company with the threaded part.

Take all the other screws out.

Dismantle the screwed down item.

This gives acces to the remaining thread, which now has a central (if you've been careful) hole. Make this as deep as possible with the centre drill.

Use the high speed steel (HSS) drill to drill the thread out. The centre drilled hole will guide the HSS drill on centre. The non-guided stage when all the centre drilled hole is gone (if the screw is long) will be the dodgy part.




Alternative to the above is to use a very small centre drill to drill a line of holes across the screw head. These will give purchase to a slotted (chisel point) screwdriver or for a punch to hammer the screw head anticlockwise (assuming a right hand thread). Trouble with this method is you can end up with a mangled mess and a still-stuck screw.



And I'll bet you don't try any of the above. Let me know if you do, though.

PM me if you struggle, though the above is about all there is to it.

tony draper
8th May 2005, 15:38
Try heating the screw by holding a soldering iron on the head,or if the whole thing is small enough try sticking it in the freezer,different co-efficient of expansion contraction betwixt metals dontcha know,trouble is the thread may contract more than the screw, I am assuming the head is chewed up because its stuck fast in the thread, if it can be made to loosen its grip it would help.
:cool:

SyllogismCheck
8th May 2005, 16:14
A screw extractor of this type (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=23257) that works soley on the screw head may do the job on small screws with less risk than the usual 'easy-out' type that has rightly been advised against due to the likely hood of breakage leaving you in an even worse position.
If you get hold of some of this type, don't attempt to use them in anything other than a cordless drill. You'll need all your effort to be used in bearing down on the thing to make it cut in and bite quickly whilst leaving the rotational effort to the drill itself. You will only get away with the thing jumping once or twice before it chews enough material out to be unable to bite again, so lean on it like you mean it.

BTW, those are 'Phillips' pattern screw heads. Don't put a Pozidrive screwdriver anywhere near them, it's probably what caused the damage to that one in the first place.
A 'Phillips' screwdriver will drive a 'Pozidrive' screw ok, but not the other way round as the additional splines on the Pozi screwdriver prevent it sitting into a 'Phillips' head properly. :8 :zzz:

Keef
8th May 2005, 16:39
I've had the problem a few times with vintage radio equipment. Where possible, I drill off the head of the damaged screw(s), remove the other screws, and disassemble the item, which leaves me with enough screw shank to get a good grip on it with a pair of pliers.

Failing that, I have what I think was some kind of small wood countersink drill, with a normal drill shank, then a triangular blade at the tip. This is extremely sharp. I give it a couple of taps with a hammer to cut into the damaged screw slot/centre, then turn gently by hand. It's never failed me yet.

Some 3-in-one penetrating and easing oil (or WD40, or whatever you prefer) will also help.

alosaurus
8th May 2005, 16:55
Cyclicmicky has the answer.

An easyout is used by engineers to get aircraft screws out which have been oxidising with their hole for decades.

scrubed
8th May 2005, 17:13
try using your :} teeth on it..........

handysnaks
8th May 2005, 18:34
Usually ends up with one snapped ezi-out stuck in the hole, and since they're case-hardened steel it will be there forever (as will the screw you wanted to remove)
As the botch job down pipe on my motorbike will testify:mad: :\

boofhead
8th May 2005, 18:49
There looks to be enough of the screw left yet... try a small flat (normal) screwdriver that fits the jagged hole in the screw. It does not have to be exactly centred to work. Press down and use a multi grip to hold the handle for extra torque, using one hand to turn and the other to hold it down in the remaining slot. The scewdriver has to be a good quality and fairly new, and has to be small enough to just fit into the slot. And you have to hold your mouth in just the right position (that's what the lady at the hardware store told me anyway). PS are you sure it is meant to come out? The one at the bottom of the photo looks to be in the same condition and there are signs it has been previously drilled, or that it was rivetted in place?

maxman
8th May 2005, 20:18
What is the picture of ?. Would it be cheaper to buy a new one. This from my own experience of plumbing jobs, you know, spend a hundred quid at B & Q, only to find that your local plumber would have done it for forty quid.....

If it's any help, the impact driver is probably the way to go. The screw looks too small to use an easy out. Stupid question, but are you sure that it is a right hand thread, you come across left hand thread stuff in the most unlikley places, hope this helps.

BRL
8th May 2005, 21:03
Hi All. Huge thanks for those who have replied here. I am about to go and have a go at getting it out.

The screw is small, 3x25mil according to the manual. :confused:

It is one of two holding in the motor on a 1/10 remote control car. I need to take the stock one out to replace with a new one that is much faster.

The bottom one comes out no problem, I did have a problem when I first tried unscrewing that, comes out ok now. I have two others to replace them but cannot get this one out at all, it is in, tight solid :{

Here we go..............:ugh:

Noah Zark.
8th May 2005, 21:19
If you haven't managed to get the screw out yet, follow boofheads plan, but before you try to undo it, try to tighten it just a smidge. This sometimes releases it.

Synthetic
8th May 2005, 21:45
Yup - I know how to get that out.

LPS500
8th May 2005, 21:49
Before trying an ezi out (last resort) or an impact driver which will more than likely damage the screw even more I'd suggest the following:

If the structure behind is strong enough, which from the photo looks the case, take a pin punch and hammer and work around the head of the screw to drive the displaced metal back into shape a bit. Don't be afraid to give it a good hit if possible! Then with a brand new screwdriver tip, preferably an american brand with snap in the name (as they have 'teeth' built in to the tip) and some valve grinding paste on the head of the screw, gently try and prise it loose. If a all possible use a speed brace as the weight you can put on the brace is far better than a normal screwdriver. If that doesn't work then I'd go for an ezi out. Try and get hold of a left hand drill bit too (they do exist) as sometimes they will lift out a screw by themselves. Good luck.

Onan the Clumsy
9th May 2005, 03:11
Try and get hold of a left hand drill bit too (they do exist) ...they're for filling in holes you drilled by mistake :ok:

Avtrician
9th May 2005, 03:44
Get hold of a srewdrive with a new tip (Hardened), and hit the top of the handle while trying to unscrew (similar action to an impact driver. Once it starts you should be able to keep it going.

Loose rivets
9th May 2005, 04:56
Well, has it come out yet? If not, here is the answer. The problem is, that you're not going to believe it.

But first, a re-cap.

Given that a Dremmel is not able to get into the working area....if it is, don't cut too deep or the head will break off in two pieces.

And given that an impact driver is too brutal...they do work with small taps, if you put a strong bias torque on the tool prior to the wack.

Given that you cant be arsed to get an instrument sized removal tool...which as mentioned, will probably break an be in there for ever.

Given that you don't want to try Drape's idea cos the freezer is full...try the mirror image of that, and warm the whole unit and freeze the screw with electronics test freezer or some other supply of liquid nitrogen on a cotton bud.

BUT, if you really want to get it out, go and get a friend with rhythm.......and a similar small punch to your own. Since the screw is so soft that it got [email protected]#$%$ed up in the first place, it should be soft enough for the punches to bite. The impact line must be precise. Not so steep that it slips, but steep enough to give rotational energy. Now comes the hard bit.

You and your pal have to tap it on opposite sides with the precision of a....well, a pair of very precise people. If the taps land at the same time, I promise you that it will come out....I mean, I promise. If it doesn't, let me know, and I'll go out into the garage and take my lawnmower to pieces as a penance.

:8

Blacksheep
9th May 2005, 05:21
I just hope you realize that all us highly trained instrument technicians have been reading this with huge grins on our faces. :}

Although you've tried using the wrong screwdriver in the first instance - it isn't a standard Phillips, its a Pozidrive - that screw is a very long way from being buggered-up enough to need all this fancy EZ- out stuff. Use the correct type and size of screwdriver and get plenty of shoulder behind it before you try turning it. Also, a 3x25 screw will have been put in with a drop of threadlock so, after using some solvent to loosen the grip, try tightening it first to break the bond.

Now, what's that little punch mark on one side of the screw head mean, I wonder?

Good Luck. :ok:

acbus1
9th May 2005, 05:36
If the taps land at the same time.........
I order to ensure synchronised "taps", I reccommend the phrase......

"When I nod my head........hit it!"


I know.....ancient. Someone might never have heard it before.... :O



I can see this running into fifty pages by September, at which point BRL tells us he got it out months ago.........using none of the methods :rolleyes:

SyllogismCheck
9th May 2005, 07:22
Sorry Blacksheep but I think you're mistaken. They're not pozidrive heads. The shoulders look a little odd, not quite as square on the shoulders as a Phillips normally is, and as a result as if they may be have extra drive slots in them, but the screws lack the tell tale marking lines across the head at 45' to the main slots that Pozidrive screws have to identify them.
Given the application I would also imagine that they're machine screws which generally have a Phillips drive. Pozidrive heads being mainly, although not exclusively, reserved for wood screws.

Pozidrive head. http://www.smithfast.com/images/pozi.jpg

Phillips head. http://lyzrd.com/tutorial_screws/phillips.jpg

As I said before it's usually trying to use a Pozi driver in a Phillips head that causes problems as the additional smaller blades in the driver at 45' to the main ones sit up on the main shoulders in the screw (rather than into the additional slots on the Pozi head) and chew them off.
A Phillips driver in a Pozi head wont do this so usually doesn't cause such problems as although it's really still the wrong shape for the job it will still sit in the head well enough to drive the main shoulders.
If in doubt try a Phillips driver first as you're more likely to get away with it.

What an exciting subject!! :ugh: :} :zzz:

Anyway, did you get it out yet BRL?

BRL
9th May 2005, 08:30
Nope, not out yet. Just had THREE Weetabix so that should do it!!!!!!

Just about to crack on with it, shall I fire up the webcam and do a live cam session!!!!!!!!!!

Right, here we go, wish us luck............... :D

Solid Rust Twotter
9th May 2005, 08:40
BANZAIIIIII....!!!

R4+Z
9th May 2005, 08:52
The screw in question looks different to those around it and by the looks of it, it is what is left of a torx or similar type of security screw. Have you checked to see if that type of driver will grip better?

rustle
9th May 2005, 09:01
The screw in question looks different to those around it...
Only because he's butchered it :}

IFTB
9th May 2005, 09:03
This must be the most exciting thread ever on JB. :ok:
The suspense is killing me.

Well, BRL , whots happening?

Solid Rust Twotter
9th May 2005, 09:08
R4+Z

Also thought it may have been a Torx but on closer examination, I believe it's a Pozi-Drive.





Oooohhhh, the excitement!:ok:

EDDNHopper
9th May 2005, 10:05
When I first read the topic, I thought this thread was dealing with something different... :E

Anyway, I am now dieing to learn about the outcome!

IFTB
9th May 2005, 10:15
Right, here we go, wish us luck...............

Its been several hours now and not a word! :ooh:


BRL watsyoudoing?

tony draper
9th May 2005, 10:17
Just as well said screw was not about to cause a loss of coolant accident in a fast breeder reactor.
:uhoh:
Run for your lives!! run for your lives!!!!:{ :{

rustle
9th May 2005, 10:23
Come on chaps, remember what he does for a crust?

He's either been delayed or the job's been cancelled :p

BRL
9th May 2005, 10:32
No Joy as yet. Have been trying since 0830, pausing only to listen to Popmaster! Trying everything here, it's really fiddly, small place to work in. Going to have a breather for now. Will continue in half an hour.
Meanwhile, here is the scene of the crime.........................
http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/139_3998.JPG

neil armstrong
9th May 2005, 10:45
If you have an old welder,the one with the electrodes!
Use it to attach (weld) a electrode to the screw head and then use plyers!
But your screw might be too small for that!! good luck

Neil

Lon More
9th May 2005, 10:56
Going slightly off topic, but just found a link to this (http://www.evo.me.uk/) then scroll down to the bottom - tshirt

Looks a bit like Michael Schumaker (sp?):cool: ( I said a bit !!)

edited as I couldn't get the link to work

IFTB
9th May 2005, 11:03
here is the scene of the crime.........................
No wonder you canny get them out; with only 2 hammers?? And they look too light anyway. You need at least three halfpounders and a chuncky vice! :rolleyes:

airship
9th May 2005, 11:44
BRL, how about sacrificing an old screw-driver or bit that fits into the worn head? Apply some of that 2 part fast-setting epoxy Araldite or even Superglue. Squirt a little WD40 around the head. Wait 10 minutes and then hope for the best?! :O

Damn! I promised myself I wouldn't post for a whole week. It's only been 5 days... :rolleyes:

Blacksheep
9th May 2005, 11:52
Take a look at the relativly undamaged twin at the bottom of the picture Syllogism and tell me again...

In any case, those wimpy little short blade drivers we can see in the scene of the crime won't shift it . It'll take at least a ten inch blade to get the necessary purchase.

ORAC
9th May 2005, 12:09
Get some epoxy putty (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=43442&TabID=1&source=15&WorldID=&doy=29m4&Cache=0,28502), fill and insert a screwdriver to shape a hole, allow to set, unscrew. You can get steel reinforced versions which can be drilled and tapped.

tony draper
9th May 2005, 12:24
One has a wheeltappers and shunters hammer about the place somewhere if you wish to borrow same BRL.
:cool:

Lon More
9th May 2005, 12:30
Sounds like it was fitted by my old metalwork teacher,

Hammer to fit,
File to finish
Paint to cover

Avtrician
9th May 2005, 12:36
The screw was probably stripped on assembly, and has been super glued in.

Saw it on a Mirage panel once, only the head had snapped off with the shaft still in the hole, bright spark glued the head on the panel:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

IFTB
9th May 2005, 12:36
You see BRL , when you add a photo , just like when trying to sell something, the number and quality of replies multiplies manyfold! :}

Well, has it budged yet?

BRL
9th May 2005, 12:40
Well I have tried and tried but will have to call it a day.

Just tried the superglue trick, no joy, the screwdriver just turned and came off much to my enjoyment. Will go and buy some of the epoxy putty Orac has linked to, that looks good.

I will have another crack in the morning, I feel the hammer on the right of the picture above may end up embedded in the bloody thing if I continue...............

Thanks for the advice. :)

IFTB
9th May 2005, 12:45
Thanks for the advice.
No problem, anytime, that's why we're here for! :} :} :E

ORAC
9th May 2005, 12:48
If you want a steel reinforced version, get something like Quiksteel (http://www.kalimex.co.uk/section.html?secpath=01.02.&pgid=6)

Tonkatoy
9th May 2005, 13:42
while we're waiting for BRL to get some of that putty stuff...

Blacksheep, what does that punch mark on the side of the screw head mean?

pigboat
9th May 2005, 13:45
If you think someone has superglued the screw into place, try a couple of drops of fingernail polish remover (acetone) around the screw head. That'll soften the stuff.

rustle
9th May 2005, 13:56
Superglue, epoxy, liquid steel...

Be cheaper and quicker to buy a new toy. You can always tow the old one behind so it goes fast :p

ORAC
9th May 2005, 14:18
You miss the point, at this point it is no longer about the model, its personal. Man against machine......:E

Solid Rust Twotter
9th May 2005, 14:38
Man against machine?

In that case, may I suggest a 14 pound sledge hammer?

"No furshlugginer inanimate object gets the better of me...":* :E

EDDNHopper
9th May 2005, 15:27
Did he tell us why he wanted the screw out in the first place? :confused: :confused:

rustle
9th May 2005, 15:34
Did he tell us why he wanted the screw out in the first place?

Yes:

It is one of two holding in the motor on a 1/10 remote control car. I need to take the stock one out to replace with a new one that is much faster.

EDDNHopper
9th May 2005, 15:50
Ah, ok., missed that.

Well, in that case hell have to mount the new one on top of the old one. Best to glue it, of course.

gas path
9th May 2005, 16:19
Stop messing about just drill the head off!:p

effortless
9th May 2005, 16:29
If he drills the head off then demounts the motor he will have a pretty good lump of screw to get hold of with pliers.

SyllogismCheck
9th May 2005, 17:52
Yes, I did already look at that one Blacksheep, but I suspect that what look like the pozidrive slots in the already slightly damaged head of the screw at the bottom are witness marks left by some mechanical barbarian (who obviously must of got his hands on the thing before BRL stepped in to save the day :p) getting somewhat brutal with the applicaton of a pozidrive screw driver into the head of the screw which has begun to cut into the shoulders.
The two bright ones are Phillips for sure as although they have slightly cut away shoulders there are no extra drive grooves so a pozi screwdriver couldn't sit down into them properly.
Using two pozidrive screws in the same assembly would also seem a bit odd, especially since as I said pozidrive heads don't often appear on machince screws, which this is.
But then of course being an electronicy type device it's probably made in Japan which means no screwdriver known to man will fit the screw heads anything like properly unless you grind the tip off slightly as they always seem to be especially shallow. :rolleyes: So I could be wrong and they could be something totally random. :confused:

Anyway enough screw spotting now, I'm sure I must have more interesting things to do. :O

BRL, As the screw isn't into a blind hole and if it's secured by threading into the end of the motor which is scrap anyway, and I assume must be withdrawn along the length of its body to clear the gearing, just drill the head off which will allow the motor to be withdrawn and let the shank go in the bin with the motor. :ok:

Failing that carefully dismantle the rest of the assembly from around the offending screw..... I suggest the use of that there claw hammer as the method of choice! :E

AntiCrash
9th May 2005, 19:42
Just slather it with some "lemmon curry"! That will usually get things loosened up!

ShyTorque
9th May 2005, 19:46
Araldite and the like are not strong enough. Just Mig weld an old screwdriver onto the screw and be done with it (the expansion from the heat will crack the grip of the screw thread).

Blacksheep
10th May 2005, 00:45
Sorry to be so long in responding Tonkatoy - the posts are coming too fast to keep up. The dimple suggests that the screw has been 'peened' to expand the head against the side of the recess in which it sits. A means of stopping vibrations loosening it in service. I'd bet they used thread locking varnish too. They never intended that fastener to ever come undone...

Instrument techies do all sorts of things to prevent screws shifting after we've done twiddling and adjusting. Then we curse each other when it comes to undoing the previous techie's work at the next shop visit. In the instrument workshop, bench technicians 'enjoy' BRL's experience on a daily basis.

EDDNHopper
10th May 2005, 08:32
Ok., BRL, back to work please, were all waiting....


Tap tap tap tap tap tap ....

Lon More
10th May 2005, 09:20
Put it in a cardboard box and leave it in the nearest shopping centre - a kind man will come along and take it apart for you

Altenatively, nuke the :mad:

IFTB
10th May 2005, 09:23
BRL ,
WTF is going on??

TELL US SOMETHING!

I have not been able to make myself a coffee yet cause I'm afraid to miss any news! :{ :{



edited to say:

I've got it, Ive got it!
the mention by Lon More of "a kind man will take it apart for you" gave me the idea!
According to this forum, anything left in Liverpool will be dismanteled, mainly wheels are taken of cars!

There you are, Robert is yer Auntie! No tools, no glues no nukes, just yer (ex) locals!:ok: :ok:

BRL
10th May 2005, 10:06
Still no joy chaps.

Thought about doing a bit earlier, decided not to bother this morning, bit too busy.

Don't know about scousers doing it for me, if I cant do it then I don't know many who can!!!! Besides, they are only good at taking wheels off or hubcaps! Speaking of which, the caravan club of great britain have gathered in a local beauty spot, if I leave it within a mile of them that should solve it :}

I am off to walk through a tunnel now. I will give it a crack this evening when I get back.

IFTB
10th May 2005, 10:12
No, the Caravan Club can't help you. It's not amongst their data sheets! (http://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/technical.htm)


I will give it a crack
Yeah, the 14 pounder seems to be the only solution left! :}




I'm off to make my coffee now!

tony draper
10th May 2005, 10:25
One had to walk miles through the Tyneside Metro tunnels at one time BRL, twas very spooky when yer were on yer tod, alus made one think of Quatermass and the Pit.
:uhoh:

IFTB
11th May 2005, 07:17
Any attacks planned for this morning then BRL , or can I go and make a coffee in peace?

Avtrician
11th May 2005, 07:28
We must all be going nuts:E cos we are doing nothing but waiting for BRL to tell us how hes going with a screw;)

IFTB
11th May 2005, 08:12
BRL has a screw problem.............

I bet you he's [email protected] it up but does not dare telling us! :}

ORAC
11th May 2005, 08:13
I reckon its a wind up. Got us hanging by a thread.....

spekesoftly
11th May 2005, 08:39
Such dramas can only end with a twist ........

ORAC
11th May 2005, 08:45
What a bore.

(As the circus owner said about the human cannonball. Where will I find another man of his calibre.....)

Irish Steve
11th May 2005, 09:22
This thread is definitely going round and round in circles!

The silence is deafening

BRL
11th May 2005, 09:52
Right, I have a plan. Sacrificial screwdriver will be heated up with blowlamp until white hot. Screwy will then hopefully weld onto the the screw and bingo, screw out. Well, that is the theory at least. Going right now to try it, back in a bit.............:uhoh:

BlueDiamond
11th May 2005, 09:57
So finally we may be able to say, "Weld done."

Laff ... laff ... thud ... :(

tony draper
11th May 2005, 09:59
Hmmm,one sees a flaw in that plan BRL, said screwdriver tip which in theory should be case hardened will lose its temper under extreme heat become brittle and shatter under torque.
:cool:
Beside in order to weld one understands one needs both surfaces to be hot.

gas path
11th May 2005, 09:59
I bet it don't work:E

ORAC
11th May 2005, 10:01
Hes going to bi-metallic strip the thread.... :uhoh:

BRL
11th May 2005, 10:19
Oh well, back to the drawing board.............. :D


http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/140_4053.jpg

PPRuNe Radar
11th May 2005, 10:46
I think I'll bolt before BRL drives us all nuts :}

Rhodie
11th May 2005, 11:01
Face it....


He's screwed.......

R

IFTB
11th May 2005, 11:05
BRL ,
I have discussed your problem in the local war room at lunchtime, various suggestions have been made on how to extract your reluctant screw of which the use of a crowbar and blowtorch was only the most gentle solution.
Now you must take into account that the members of the local war room are all very experienced agricultural experts and a reluctant screw in their language would have shank of about 35 mm average (just over aninch?) and would be no match to their assorted extraction ideas.
As this was getting nowhere, I went back home and printed the pictures of your predicament as you posted it. After an initial enthousiastic gathering to get a view of the problem with lots of pushing and shouting a deadly silence decended and I was given funny looks with mutterings of "Connard !" "Il est con, ce mec!?" "c'est pas vrais!" "mais c'est qu a?"and the experts returned to the bar, ignoring me completely.

So, greetings from the SW of France, and I believe the message from the locals is that if you want to play with your sissy little toy cars and get all into a panic because one of your tiddly little screws gets stuck, then they are ready to roll their tractors out the sheds and solve your problem for you once and for all.
Other wise, just :mad: off and leave them to their pastis.

Sorry, I tried my best. :{

airship
11th May 2005, 11:22
The BAR Honda F1 team are going to be sitting out (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4529603.stm) a couple of grand prixs...maybe one of their mechanics could lend BRL a hand?! :D

pprecious
11th May 2005, 11:53
Have you any small allen wrenches or even a TORX bit that you could use to get some grip, possible even give either a tap to engage with whats left of the screw?

tony draper
11th May 2005, 12:01
What yer need to do is drill a hole down the center of said screw then tap it with a left hand thread,insert and tighten left hand thread bolt, ureka!!! screw comes out.
:cool:

BRL
11th May 2005, 13:52
Just tried allen keys, no joy.

I am off to bed shortly, on nights from now until sunday morning. I will have a go as when I can really. I am just stumped with it at the moment........:confused:

Windy Militant
11th May 2005, 14:19
That's a real pig of a job there BRL you can't use heat, impact and I'd not put Acetone anywhere near a plastic chass. That leaves drilling the head off the bugger! That should release the tension on what's left of the shank allowing it to turn out easily. If it won't, then drill out the remains with a tapping drill. Preferably in a pillar drill using a drill button. A drill button is basically a sleeve, preferably hardened steel, that fits snugly into the motor housing with a hole drilled through it same size as the tapping drill. With care you should be able to centre the button on the remains. If there's a stump sticking out have a counter bore put into the button of the bottom in a tight clearance size and that's guaranteed to centre. Then drill the core of the screw out. Once the core is out pick enough of the threads out to start a second cut tap into the original thread to clean out the remains of the screw. Don't use a taper tap it will lock and break! If you don't have a mate with a lathe to make a Button, then a Pillar drill and a drill the same size as the hole in the Motor housing to get a centre mark and drill out as before. Last resort of the desperate hand drill and MK1 eyeball it is possible with a whole lot of luck. If it does all go to Ratsh*t then theres always the good old Heli coil (http://www.fjr1300.info/howto/helicoil.html)

Fortunately the small size of this item precludes the use of the most evil and useless device that ever escaped from the lower pits of hell the easiout.

If a screw can be removed using an easiout it was never really stuck. There are screw removing tools that actually work but they are specialist and expensive. A far better way of removing old screws is the tang of an old square file which tends to twist rather than just snapping.

Best of luck to you!

PS Take your time drilling out the screw as I presume it's into a brass insert which will get hot and melt the plastic around it, in which case there's no way back!
PPS Left hand Taps are very hard to come by and a Kings ransom to buy if you find one! ;)

EDDNHopper
11th May 2005, 18:46
Trust well hear from him sunday afternoon earliest. Right, thats enough time to come up with a new plan, everyone!

flyingfemme
11th May 2005, 19:59
Got to this a bit late......first line of attack is usually friction drops. EZ-Grip is far less destructive than an EZ-Out.

Tonkatoy
11th May 2005, 21:52
Thanks Blacksheep. You never know when bits of info like that might come in handy.

Heli-Ice
12th May 2005, 01:45
BRL!

If you still have the box it came in, throw it in there and send it back to the store. You're to st+++d to have a thing like this.

This is what the guys at the computer store said to me when I had similar problem with my computer. :O

IFTB
12th May 2005, 07:05
May I just point out that the original problem statement included:
Thought about drilling into it but it is really small and can't find a bit small enough.
So why all the suggestions to drill the screw head/shank?? :rolleyes:

EDDNHopper
12th May 2005, 07:12
Because people like to give advice and not like to listen.

IFTB
12th May 2005, 07:55
not like to listen
You have a voice synte....cintesy....sintersire...eehrr. A letter-to-voice reproduction thingy on your PC then EDDN ?

emeritus
12th May 2005, 08:35
An alternative approach....

1...Is said screw a permissable unservicability..?

2...If so..drill head off..resultant "stud" functions as a locator.

3...Fit washer under remaining screw to increase grip

4...Conduct series of test runs at ever increasing speed until
VNE reached.

Warning..This course of action should not be taken until the appropriate Technical Analysis has been completed.


:8 :8 :8

IFTB
12th May 2005, 08:40
Wrong, it's a NO GO item!

WG774
12th May 2005, 12:16
This must be the most gripping thread I've seen in a while. (guffaw)

T Draper wrote:
What yer need to do is drill a hole down the center of said screw then tap it with a left hand thread,insert and tighten left hand thread bolt, ureka!!! screw comes out.


You should heed Mr Draper's advice - after all, there's a whole brand of tools named after him :p

I've appointed myself official bookmaker for this event, odds as follows:

2:1 Favourite - The Draper Mini-drill method

17: 2 - Heli Coil

23 : 3 - Allen Keys / cutting new grip

50 : 1 Outsider - Blu-tack or Superglue

Dak Mechanic
12th May 2005, 12:27
As it is a Tamiya (looks like it anyway), doesn't the gearbox come off the chassis?

Whatever, start by stripping as much of the car as possible away from the problem screw to give access. Last resort - araldite something onto the buggered screw (allen key, hex shaft screwdriver bit etc) and leave it to cure overnight. then have a go.

Otherwise, get a new gearbox assy from the manufacturer.

JC
Ex terrible RC car racer.

airship
12th May 2005, 12:38
For heaven's sake, we're talking about a 3mm screw! Yet we have all this chat about drilling out the old screw, tapping it, inserting helicoils etc. ?!

Uhmmm, maybe someone could consult the NASA archives. Nah, on second thoughts, it would probably be better to call Boris, we can't wait years... ;)

Lon More
12th May 2005, 14:27
If you have access to a drill press or a vertical drill stand it should not be difficult to mill/grind the head off the old screw. Then, as suggested, remove the remains after taking the motor out.
If you haven't got such a tool, try your local motor cycle repairer or a machine shop

spekesoftly
12th May 2005, 15:35
Based on advice so far, we've spent how much on:-


a) Several Packs of Araldite and Superglue

b) Numerous specialist drill bits

c) Assorted Easi-Outs and Stud Extractors

d) Vertical Drill Stand

e) Mig welding gear

f) Heli-Coil Inserts

g) Sundry screwdrivers and Allen Keys


And still it won't shift! ...................... Ah! the joys of DIY :p

IFTB
12th May 2005, 15:48
OK, let me try this again:

Thought about drilling into it but it is really small and can't find a bit small enough.


now what did you not understand about that? :mad:

effortless
12th May 2005, 15:53
I find the big blowlamp helpful in these situations :}

He said that the motor was US and to be scrapped. So if he drills the head off and pulls the motor of its mounts then he can gain purchase on tyhe stud. He can even destroy the motor and gain access to the stud this way.

EDDNHopper
12th May 2005, 16:47
I think in modern surgery, especially endoscopy, much smaller drills/bits are used today. Get an appointment at the nearest medical centre that specializes in brain surgery, Im sure theyll have the screw out in no time.

Darth Nigel
12th May 2005, 17:12
But IFTB, why doesn't he just use a small bit? I really don't understand... :p

Lon More
12th May 2005, 18:09
Thought about drilling into it but it is really small and can't find a bit small enough. Try here (http://www.dealtime.co.uk/xDN-Tools_and_Hardware-dremel-drill_bits)



EDDN They only deal with loose screws

Mac the Knife
12th May 2005, 18:22
Get your friendly local dentist to drill the head (alternatively he/she could just cut a nice slot for you).

The pneumatically powered high-speed drill and water-cooled diamond/tungsten carbide bit does that sort of job in about 1 second - I just find an empty workstation in the School of Dentistry if I ever need to do anything like this.

Solid Rust Twotter
12th May 2005, 18:55
I still say it's f****ing retarded.......

ExSimGuy
12th May 2005, 18:56
Big Red . . . .

Your antics, and the useful suggestions (as well as the less useful ones ;) ) had me in stitches!

Is the thing held on with 4 or more screws? If so, why not forget the "ThumbsLynk" maintenance manual, and just drill the bloody head off with a 6mm drill and put the whole thing back together afterwards with one less screw:p (and maybe some Loctite)

Good luck mate - haven't seen you since we went to that "mini-bash" somewhere in the New Forest area (hey! YOU were driving and I wasn't watching;0 )

Must get to another Bash at some stage -unfortunately my work pattern has changed and the usual "Bash timings" are not available as leaves.

(Unless someone comes up with some replies to my suggestion of a "RUH Bash":yuk:

Loose rivets
13th May 2005, 05:27
I suppose you think I was kidding. Aaahh well.

If two of you can get access, and synchronize, it WILL come out.....tap tap tap tap TAP tap tap tap tap TAP

Because the item is so delicate, all the energy must be confined to two tiny points, and a good proportion of it rotational. The points must be so hard and sharp that they dig in reliably.

I make mini punches out of OBO nails, sharpened on a green stone...if needs be, set into/onto the end of mild steel rod. ( used on anything from a fine gun, to the scale on dog's teeth!!) Err, don't use them big hammers I see there.

SyllogismCheck
13th May 2005, 07:29
I must be missing something here surely? :confused:

The screw head can't be that tiny. At least 3 or 4mm across, probably more.
Any set of small HSS twist drills available in a DIY place will have one small enough to drill the head off the thing. They usually start at 1.5 or 2mm, which is too small, one about the same diameter as the head or slightly bigger provided that it won't attack the surrounding material is needed.

C'mon, just do it! Were up to nine 9 pages now, the suspense is too much! Drill it off already! :}

IFTB
13th May 2005, 07:42
twist drills available in a DIY place
SyllogismCheck ,
he :mad: said, that he :mad: could :mad: NOT FIND a small :mad: bit!

:mad: :mad: :suspect: :rolleyes:


Nurse! Quick, the tablets please!

BOAC
13th May 2005, 07:52
When I first saw this thread it had run to 9 pages and I thought 'how patient the partner must be':D

ATB, BRL, hope it works somehow, and 'SyllogismCheck' - thanks for the link to the 'x-out' - there's me - decades old and never heard of it!!

Blacksheep
13th May 2005, 08:58
He could of course, just drill the whole bloody thing out , retap it to the next size up and screw it all back together with a 4mm screw. :rolleyes:

Or buy a new RC car with more grunt as delivered.

trimpot
13th May 2005, 11:49
Blacksheep, you read my mind. Not a long read I'm afraid.:}
The other alternative is to get a six inch (150mm) angle grinder with a diamond blade and gently cut away as many pieces of the car as possible. Then with a fine tipped dremel, slowly grind away the remaining bit of the car until only the screw remains. For any pifilling bits left soak in an acid bath for a few hours. This way the screw will remain undamaged and you can insert in into the new car or anywhere else you like.:E

ORAC
13th May 2005, 11:54
Or use a dremel to grind away the sides to form edges and then use a mole grips or a socket......... :}

Rhodie
13th May 2005, 11:56
Jeez....

The lengths some people go to just for a screw.... :E

R

Gouabafla
13th May 2005, 13:21
Was worried that this thread might slip too far down and that BRL would have an excuse not to tell us how things worked out.

Bump.

EDDNHopper
13th May 2005, 15:24
With the combined technical expertise displayed here, there is still hope that mankind will be able to solve even the biggest global problems yet to come...! :ok:

Loose rivets
13th May 2005, 17:53
""he said, that he could NOT FIND a small bit!""


Rapid Electronics at Colchester Essex is like a scaled down RS. they have a good selection of things like decimal points of a mm drill bits.

Used to be that any order before 8pm was on my doorstep next morning--always. But, there was a min order of 10

tony draper
13th May 2005, 18:23
One thinks if BRL fails after all this sound advice his Shed owners certificate should be withdrawn forthwith.
:rolleyes:

sixmilehighclub
13th May 2005, 18:56
I have a screw problem too.

Tried the lubrication idea which helped a little. :rolleyes:
The superglue suggestion pehaps isn't such a good idea. :uhoh:

After extensive testing :\ , it seems I need a new screwdriver.

Anybody got one I can use?

Piltdown Man
13th May 2005, 19:15
Try Chronos Ltd (they have a website - drills down to 0.5mm but I'd suggest that you need a 2mm drill). They are also stockists for weird and wonderful tools. Shesto's is also another good bet for small tools and things. Both have excellent mail order.

You'll have to let us know the outcome.

Avtrician
14th May 2005, 05:20
Nearly slipped into obscurity , bacvk to the top.

Any news, this has to be the longest screw story ever.

BRL
14th May 2005, 07:02
Just arrived home from work, tired and hungry. I have been looking at the thread when I can but not really been having a go at the car yet, bit tired, long nights and all that.

I promise I will keep you posted when I get round to it on Sunday. :)

Thanks again for all your advice. :)

ExSimGuy
14th May 2005, 07:54
That's what I was trying to remember that would do the job! A Round Tuit

There's so many jobs that I could do too, if only I could get a Round Tuit ;)

acbus1
14th May 2005, 09:59
sixmilehighclub

On the assumption that you're female..........(though I'll try anything once).....

I've got an extendable one. Pump action. Impressively large when fully extended. Gives me a really good purchase. Quite thick, so if you have small hands you may need to hold it with both. Needs loads of energy to use it to it's full potential, but the results are truly mind blowing. Very versatile....fits any socket. Lubrication occasionaly helps. The final tightening is very satisfying........creme de la creme. The only weakness is in the ball joints.

You can't borrow it....... I feel it's a part of me, but I'd be happy to demonstrate. Do you have different types of head?

BlueDiamond
14th May 2005, 10:26
Tuits are pretty hard to come by these days, especially the round ones so here's one just for you, BRL ... hope it does the trick.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v511/BlueDiamond01/tuit.jpg

Onan the Clumsy
14th May 2005, 12:48
I've got an extendable one. Pump action. Impressively large when fully extended. Gives me a really good purchase. Quite thick, so if you have small hands you may need to hold it with both. Needs loads of energy to use it to it's full potential, but the results are truly mind blowing. Very versatile....fits any socket. Lubrication occasionaly helps. The final tightening is very satisfying........creme de la creme. The only weakness is in the ball joints. ...and it's 2mm in diameter :p

acbus1
14th May 2005, 14:09
It can certainly do some fine screwing.


:p1:p


Scale 1:20

airship
14th May 2005, 14:22
Screw the screw problem... :}

Avtrician
15th May 2005, 08:16
Nearly fell off the page, back to the top

LowNSlow
15th May 2005, 09:26
Plan A
Soak offending item in WD-40 or similar and leave overnight. Cut slot in top of screw using Dremmel tool (that's 40 quid spent so far),tighten the other screws to relieve some of the load on the duff one, using the biggest flat blade screwdriver that will fit into your new slot (fnar, fnar) tighten the duff one a tadge then back it off. Maybe, possibly ah well, tough luck.

Plan B
Go to model shop, buy vehicle that fulfills your power requirements and consign current duff vehicle to that shelf that all good sheds should have. The one marked EXPENSIVE MISTAKES.

:uhoh: :uhoh:

acbus1
15th May 2005, 09:29
1 -- Phone Air Traffic Control.

2 -- Get a slot. Preferably one very close to your time of phoning.......(happiness is a tight slot).

The rest is obvious.

effortless
15th May 2005, 09:46
I've just spoken to my man and he says that he will get it out for you. PM me and I'll arrange for you to meet up.

BlueDiamond
15th May 2005, 09:49
Well, come on then, BRL ... it's Sunday and we're all waiting .......

;)

BRL
15th May 2005, 12:29
Well I have just got up so give us an hour and I will have a go at it........... :)

BRL
15th May 2005, 13:57
Work in progress, check out the old drill!!
http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/140_4065.JPG

airship
15th May 2005, 14:07
How barbaric?!

Where are the pain-killers, the oxygen masks, the anaesthetist? ;)

acbus1
15th May 2005, 15:17
Pain-killers, oxygen masks, anaesthetist?



It only makes your wrist a bit sore!

(drilling, I mean).

ExSimGuy
15th May 2005, 19:54
A N D ????

BRL
15th May 2005, 21:11
I have drilled into the top of it (using a modern cordless drill and ultra thin bit) so what do I do now? :confused:

Bo Nalls
15th May 2005, 21:51
Now you apply the Birmingham screwdriver to it :p

BRL
15th May 2005, 22:05
Birmingham screwdriver :confused: :confused: :confused:

Synthetic
15th May 2005, 23:02
Birmingham screwdriver

If you don't know, don't ask.

PUT THE MODEL DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM THE TRANSMITTER.

Loose rivets
15th May 2005, 23:08
Just noticed Brighton...(I'm really quick) Anywhere near Wilmington sp? Way ?

So, you haven't got a friend with rhythm.........have you got a file--with tapered square section bit that goes into a handle? Makes a good grip on the inside of small holes, if you break it off at the right length.

WG774
15th May 2005, 23:19
Loose Rivets is one the money here - I recently used the method for a rounded-off grub-screw.

The trick is, as LR states, to get the optimum amount of file inside the hole to get a decent grip.

I can't ever recall seeing a thread that kept me in such suspense :p Are you planning to have a party once you've removed it?

pigboat
16th May 2005, 01:10
I think he should have it bronzed and mounted on a plaque. ;)

SyllogismCheck
16th May 2005, 02:17
I have drilled into the top of it (using a modern cordless drill and ultra thin bit) so what do I do now? Use bigger drill bits till the head comes off. I'm guessing a 4mm drill bit will be about right to cut it off the thread without damaging the surrounding material.

effortless
16th May 2005, 09:18
Just noticed Brighton...(I'm really quick) Anywhere near Wilmington sp? Way ?

Oooer you don't know anybody with leonine tendencies there do you Loose?

IFTB
17th May 2005, 08:18
.... so what do I do now?
That was nearly 2 days ago! :uhoh:
Are you still hanging on BRL?

tony draper
17th May 2005, 08:29
What to do now??,hmmm buggah!, one thinks you should start another thread seeking advice on what to do with a recalcitent screw with a hole drilled in it.
:uhoh:

Windy Militant
17th May 2005, 08:30
It's no good I can't resist it any more...


This is a Thread that's hanging on a Thread about a Thread that's hanging on!

I'll Thread my way out through the grating. :O

IFTB
17th May 2005, 08:32
Maybe you can sell it on eBay now. Include a CD with this thread to give it a bit more historic (histeric?) value!

Do I hear 500 pounds?...........................:}

Lon More
17th May 2005, 09:58
Work in progress, check out the old drill!!
As an antique probably worth more than the car.

BRL
17th May 2005, 10:10
Still no joy chaps. At the moment it looks like a rivet!!!!!!!!

I have two weeks off now so something should happen soon, its driving me mad!:ugh:

tony draper
17th May 2005, 10:34
Are you telling us BRL, that after all this, it was a rivet not a screw.?
Hmmm, trying to unscrew a rivet can be a time consuming job.
Never seen philip head rivets.
:(

:(
Mate of mine sends his missus into the hardware shop for a dozen inch n half countersunk wood screws,chap opens box and commenses to count them out,little wifey takes one look and chirps up.
"They are no good they are made out of metal"
:rolleyes:

BOAC
17th May 2005, 10:48
The heads might have been on the wrong end too....

spekesoftly
17th May 2005, 14:36
Still no joy chaps. At the moment it looks like a rivet!!!!!!!!

Time for another vist to the Tool Shop (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivetremoval.php)! ;)

Blacksheep
18th May 2005, 02:32
So far as I can recall, we haven't been told what this infernal fastener fastens. If it fastens a bit thats going to be removed anyway, just drill the head right off and to hell with it. :hmm:

Loose rivets
18th May 2005, 05:47
But then it has won !! :*

BRL
18th May 2005, 10:57
Ok, so far I have drilled down into it hence the screw head looking like a rivet as the screw pattern has been drilled away now. I am left with a screw head with a ' round hole' in it instead of the pattern

What on earth do I do next??????????? :confused:

tony draper
18th May 2005, 11:06
Get drill bit, screw or indeed a nail slightly bigger that the one you used to drill said hole place in freezer forra hour, slip it into hole as it will now have shrunk a tad, and wait untill it expands, grasp drill bit firmly with pliers and turn anticlockwise,
Hmm it would have to be only ever so slightly bigger mind you.
Never in the field of human conflict has so much advice been ofered by so many.
:rolleyes:

Lon More
18th May 2005, 11:06
Just keep using progressively larger drills until the head collapses, remove the motor and then you can get mole grips or similar on the screw to remove it

SyllogismCheck
18th May 2005, 17:39
Serious mode on for a minute.... :ooh:

BRL, As said, just use a bigger drill bit. If you think about the angle on the point of the drill the very centre will always hvae drilled the furthest into the screw. So no matter what size you use (within reason, and I suggest a bit a mm or so bigger in diameter than the outside diameter of the screw head) the point centred in the screw head will begin to drill down into the threaded portion of the screw and hence cause no damage to the gearbox casing whilst the angle of the point of the drill will progressively cut away the head of the screw.
At a certain point the drill is going to cut a big enough diameter hole at the required depth to remove the material that forms the right angled joint between the underside of the head and the threaded portion of the screw and the head will seperate. Obviously at this point you need to stop drilling fairly quickly as the next thing the drill begins to cut will be the gearbox casing under the head of the screw.

Imagine sticking the end of a pencil (the drill) into a straw (the threaded portion of the screw). The point at which the taperd end of the pencil goes tight against the wall of the straw is the point you need to reach, the point at which youve removed the entire diameter of the screw just below the head and thus the head is removed. Obviously the thinner part of the pencil already inside the straw isn't touching anything (in the case of the screw it will be, but only the core of the scrap screw) so causing no harm.
In effect you're cutting the head off the screw, only doing so by removing the material via the top rather than the side as this is the only direction you can approach it from.

Sorry, I hope this doesn't sound patronising at all. I just get the impression you've not quite visualised what you're trying to achieve.... either that or this is a brilliant wind up! :p

Drill bigger. Good luck. :ok:

airship
18th May 2005, 17:43
Drill bigger.

Before doing so, it might be worth checking on whether you own the mineral rights under the property! Be a shame to hit a gusher only to find... ;)

ORAC
18th May 2005, 18:34
But if it was lubricated it would have come out. This is a dry hole I fear...... ;)

SyllogismCheck
18th May 2005, 18:39
What sort of idiot put it in there then?
Everyone knows dry holes are no good for scre..... oh, it's just too predictable! :ugh:

airship
18th May 2005, 18:42
Why are you scared of dry holes ORAC? Snakes?! ;)

Avtrician
19th May 2005, 07:53
I'm becoming unhinged, and this screwy thread nearly go lost

IFTB
20th May 2005, 07:20
Well, BRL ? Have you finally screwed it up?

Avtrician
20th May 2005, 10:35
I think hes trying to let this thread slip into oblivion, but that wont work, cos we wont let it.
:E :E

BRL
20th May 2005, 15:40
THE SCREW IS NOW OUT!
Details to follow..................

BlueDiamond
20th May 2005, 15:47
Yayyyyyyy!!!!!!!

So ... how did you eventually do it??

Taildragger55
20th May 2005, 16:20
That's right, so another thread has to die just because someone has managed to extract a screw.

Bloody brilliant, that is.

Spoilsport.

:(

BRL
20th May 2005, 16:21
Today I was PM'ed with details of the legendary FatPlumber, who came around and against all odds, got the screw out and set the motor free!!

This was the first stage; drill into it................

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/1.jpg

Got a bit tricky so had to pick it up...............

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/2.jpg

Next step, after deciding it wasn't going to come out voluntary was the tool of choice 'Birmingham Screwdriver!!!!!

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/3.jpg

Harder than we thought so out came this er, big bit thingymajig....

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/4.jpg

That done the trick and after much pulling and ooing and ahhing this appeared............

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/5.jpg

The problem seemed to be one of the screws going down into the motor, somehow made life harder for the FatPlumber but he did a stirling job extracting the motor (which still works by the way!!)

And here are the removed screws...............

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/7.jpg

Huuuuuuuuuuuuge thanks to the big guy for coming and helping me out...:ok:

airship
20th May 2005, 19:30
The FatPlumber deserves a knighthood. (http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ceremonial/nominations/)

Onan the Clumsy
20th May 2005, 19:47
I see that was an Estwing hammer you were using.

Excellent choice :ok:

Skylark4
20th May 2005, 22:17
Onan,
Sorry, you're wrong there. The Estwing is a fine hammer, I have one, but that is an Estwing Claw hammer intended for woodworking and this was an Engineering job which called for a Ball Pein or a Warrington. I suppose that if it was an Emergency then the mis-use is allowable but apologies should be made.

Mike W

effortless
21st May 2005, 08:44
In have spoken with The FatPlumber and he has promised a full engineering report in due course. I questioned him about the hammer and he apologised but it was the smallest one he had in his box. I know that he has both ball pein and plumber's pein hammers but I can also confirm that he calls them adjusters. I have seen his largest, fourteen pound, adjuster and it has only a club hammer handle. :eek: No wonder he has arthritis.

Gainesy
21st May 2005, 11:33
So BRL, wotcha gonna do with the car now?

rustle
21st May 2005, 11:43
Why does it appear that you only proffered garden furniture for the gentleman to sit on whilst working BRL :hmm:

IFTB
21st May 2005, 11:57
T'as been fascinating , pitty you got it out so soon! :cool:

I still blame the UK. :rolleyes:

BRL
21st May 2005, 12:28
rustle He was sitting on a chair that is part of a table/chair set imported from Mexico that cost a lot of money. What you can see is my daughters high chair, minus the padding on the back of it, pulled up to the table. I am afraid the big feller wouldn't fit in it so he had to make do with a chair......... :rolleyes:

Gainesy I have the new motor in it now, a Schumacher one. Just put a set of 'drift' tyres on it now, need the extra power to keep the thing going sideways. :8

Avtrician
21st May 2005, 14:42
Bugger only 14 pages too.

Now what are we going to do.

I should have started a thread on how to change the Ignition Switch on me Bike, but Ive done it already:* :*