View Full Version : bmi fokker fleet set to go to bmi regoinal

25th Apr 2001, 14:45
bmi are due to announce the timetable for transfer of its fokker fleet to bmi regional(ex bizzy air) with the whole regional operation to be run from Aberdeen. My source informs me that the flight watch(nobo)board has had its columns reduced from 20cm to10cm to accomodate the additional a/c. Aberdeen will also take over control of rostering for fokker fleet starting next month. As a by product of this move, the ABZ office will move to a new site by the end August.
By merging these fleets it will allow the transfer of Fokker f/o for command postions on the EMB145/135,and also movement from the145/BAe146 fleet to direct entry command on the Fokker.The CAA are insisting that Regional do not have more than 3 types on their new AOC, and as such the the SAAB phase out program will be accelerated, with all SAABs due to be gone by mid August.
All Guernsey flights will now be operated by Aurigny as a code share, with the Kirkwall&Sumbrugh flights transfered to Logan air using a wet leased SAAB from bmi Regional until the Autumn,one of the two remaining SF340Bs at LEEDS will be replaced by a wet leased EMB135 (SE-RAA) from the 1st June(GLASGOW/JERSEY) with an additional 135 (star alliance colours) due in August, and the wet leased aircraft being replaced in October. The formal annoucements on the above were held back until the(bmc)2/3 year 23.5% paydeal was agreed with the crew council.
Next on regionals v`bizzy(sic) agenda are new routes from ABZ to Norway,LBA to Germany&Belgium,GLA+EDI to Denmark and the establishment of a Manchester base for theEMB145/135,F70/100 in addition to the BAe 146.

[This message has been edited by INKJET (edited 30 April 2001).]

25th Apr 2001, 16:18

25th Apr 2001, 16:49
Yep heard that one, and more than once too! What is it they say? No smoke without fire!

25th Apr 2001, 17:33
Are they taking the no-bo boards to the new office http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

25th Apr 2001, 18:23
Slightly off the subject, I know, but can any of you guys in the know tell me if BMI (bmi?) are committed to centralised basing or if regional basing is likely to be available in the forseeable future.

Thanks in anticipation.

25th Apr 2001, 18:28
What about the East Midland based Fokker crews? What happens to them?

25th Apr 2001, 18:52
Nacaduck(where did you dream that name up?)
Regional basing for the foreseable future.
SQ7000 EMA/MAN is best guess at present, then it depends on replacement a/c either EMB170/190 or Boeing 717`s delivery is the big problem for Embraer,also i think that the engines on the 717 are a RR based engine?,and the 170/190 is cfm, local politics at EMA dictate a preferance for RR

682ft AMSL
25th Apr 2001, 22:55
The prospect of new routes at LBA is interesting. Germany has been rumoured for a while but Belgium?? Wouldn't have thought we had the market to sustain two operators on the BRU route. If true though, perhaps they sense a market opportunity given Sabena's financial troubles.

IMO always thought BMI would fare best by pushing LBA pax through the Star hubs in FRA and CPH.


26th Apr 2001, 17:41
Is it true the new offices around the corner are actually Donnington Hall?

27th Apr 2001, 12:30
Thanks INKJET,

I heard tell that EMA FK100/70 pilots where given the choice to stay or be based in LHR on the A320/1 with a possible MAN base after 6 months onto the A330. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

The road of life is rocky and you might stumble too, but as you point your finger someone else is judging you.

little willy h
27th Apr 2001, 13:25
Thats an incredibly good source you’ve got there Inkjet.

Opens a big can of worms.

If an ex-145 or 146 Captain joins the Fokker will he go onto the mainline payscale?
Presumably they would still be employed by BMC.

A Fokker F/O taking a command on the 145. Will they retain other terms and conditions from mainline? Will they have to start taking a packed lunch? Are there many Fokker F/Os who want a command on the 145?

If there are, its good news for those 145 Captains currently on the ‘transfer list’ to
LHR. At present they see no release date in sight as ABZ can’t replace them.

Will BALPA who currently negotiate T&C for Fokker pilots now be recognised by
BMI regional for all fleets? I’d be interested to hear from Fokker guys whether they feel they’ve had a good service from BALPA. See thread on TGWU versus BALPA.

With any luck the transfer of the Fokker fleet will help drag the T&C’s of current
BMC pilots up to a more civilised standard. But i’m not holding my breath.

27th Apr 2001, 15:21
What does it matter about scope clauses if the Fokker guys remain on BMI terms? Yes things have got better, partly due to the council but don't forget JRB did alot before he left. BALPA won't be the answer to all our problems but they may help our cause.

Its all very well saying we get crew food but wait till you get online in Hamburg. Its a rarity not the norm.

The transfer agreement also is not without its problems. Many questions are unanswered, long after the interviews. 146 crews have 14 months left and they don't have a clue what they will actually be offered. Time is short and they are being told to sit and wait whilst the economy is faltering. They have to look after themselves and their families, they can't wait until 2002 to be told you've got a 145 job as long as you move to EDI, LBA or ABZ! Their best advice is to get the best they can for themselves be BMC,BMI or anywhere.

Please don't rub your hands and say what a wonderful job the council have done when so many people have so much uncertainty over their heads. Your job has only just begun!

27th Apr 2001, 23:13
Hook, line and sinker springs to mind.....

Just wait for the announcement.

28th Apr 2001, 00:34
I`ve missed your posts, where have you been?
as per your comment, its only a rumouur network,but it makes offical"dum" issue announcements.!!!!!!

"A man is not free, if he has to ask another mans permission to use that freedom"

28th Apr 2001, 01:01
p.s Actjag,did you have a good holiday?

28th Apr 2001, 13:22
What happens when the BMC fleet trebles. Will they reduce the nobo boards down to 5inches per aircraft or will they actually start using the electronic systems already in place.

Answers on a postcard. Better still, on a nobo board :)

30th Apr 2001, 03:51
SQ7000 from 27th. Bit late as I've been away on multiple night stops as per normal F100/70 ops, but what you heard is not true. There was no choice, just a move date to LHR or of course you could do something else but not with BMI or BMC (at present! However coma, some of us suspectwhat you say may in fact become reality in the near future). The 6 months on the A320/1 is only to qualify for long haul (A330) but will be LHR based even though the a/c will initially be based out of MAN. There will be no pilots based there at the mo, though quite a few would stay with BMI if that was the case, but the current policy is only LHR pilot base. If you want to work out of LHR then things are good as A320/1 will be stamped on your licence but if you don't... then vote with your feet. As for BALPA looking after the interests of the BMI Foker fleet, we wait and see!

30th Apr 2001, 16:15
By the way-
Gurnsey is spelt Guernsey
and Auriney is spelt Aurigny.

Just a small point,
Carry on!


30th Apr 2001, 17:07
TRI,nice try,spelling corrected, ta

Sagittarius Rising
1st May 2001, 00:41
Dear Bash, SORRY, "chocolate fireguard"
Congratulations and thank you for that fantastic payrise of 2.2% you fought so hard for us 146 crews. You are quite right to be smarting for a job well done when BALPA could only manage a measley 10% for bmi. Thanks.Also, where the hell did you get this "back every night" rubbish - hurry up and get your 146 rating and say "au revoir" to a stable homelife!!

1st May 2001, 01:43
Just adding some fuel to the fire......

You are not getting to fly the Fokkers unless you transfer to bmi. We are WET LEASING them, crews and all. Back to those dreams folks....

Oh, Sagi, Bash is correct, the only folks in the entire company that don't get home at night are the STN mob. As for your payrise, well why bother fighting for one, if you might not be here next year? No not a nice attitude to take, but a realistic one at that. The future does not lie with the 4-puff or CLH, but bmi regional. Thats why the barbie jet lot got a better deal than you. The saab crews are laughing, as they get the barbiejet deal when they transfer. You lot too, if you want to stay.

This current infighting is doing wonders for the management moral. Divide and conquer they say.......

.....it's working, so BEWARE...........

1st May 2001, 15:23
This started out to be a Fokker fleet thing, but we now(including me)come back to BMC 146/145,etc. Surely its time we all get together as a team. The divide and conqueor ethos will then be overcome. Lets get the vote to recognise BALPA.

1st May 2001, 20:21
Oh actjag, you are still so bitter. Did you learn that at the "BizzyAir school of Man Management" - me thinks so.....

Have a nice life...... http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

2nd May 2001, 02:56
This thread started off as an interesting insight into where BMI Regional are gonna be going in the future. But ends up as an inter fleet argument.. to the 146 guys if you dont like the deal you have .. then there is an easy answer "Bail OUT". Stop fighting amongst oursleves for Gods Sakes !!!!!!!!
In the end we all fly for the same company be it S340,Bae146,emb145 so where is the future of the company and which fleet?? We all know the answer so where are you gonna offer the most cash too ??

2nd May 2001, 12:23
Spot on HP,i started this thread to get some feed back on the(for BMC) very significant changes now under way. This is not a puff jet-v-the rest thread, but a one company issue that will in time have an affect on all fleets. It is clear that a number of individuals within the BAe146 fleet are not happy with their lot,my message to you is simple,try to change the things that you are unhappy about,start by getting involved with the crew council,its all you`ve got at present.Some of your moans about time away from home are understandable,however they are far from unique in this industry and are a product of what we inherited from Debonair/Luffty. Remember you do have a path into mainline and i would expect a number of you to be with bmi by this time next year, and some of you will jump ahead of people in the other fleets(we can`t afford to lose our 145 captains as quick as they would like !).Finally,if are totally fed up then take a walk!!

2nd May 2001, 18:54
There are 3 members of STN 146 operation who are trying to get involved. 1 Flightdeck,1 cabin crew & 1 rostering,sofar they have been left out of the loop by the council. They have not been told of any meetings or invited. You are totally right, try to change things or get out! That is why Storm have 16 applications for GO and Easy have more. The crews are frustrated.
You are right this started out about the fokker, those guys have their problems, my suggestion is simple lets all start working together. The Fokker fleet have BALPA, all BMC flightdeck need to come together. wouldn't it make sense to be working with the Fokker boys from day 1? The Council has had its day, its lost its leader.

3rd May 2001, 00:15
Announcement should be made soon. All staff at abz, not aircrew, have already been told what is happening. We would have been told sooner, but the infighting is far too entertaining for the management.

Oh, the 21st May is going to be a very important day, for some.

It will all become clear as mud.....

PS. Thrusty, Life is far too short to be bitter. As for the Bizzy management trg, all that is required is a large stick to beat people with.....

3rd May 2001, 10:00
21st of May is indeed an important day, its my birthday!!!

[This message has been edited by INKJET (edited 03 May 2001).]

3rd May 2001, 18:10

The crew council is not one person and yup Stuart did a great job.But there are other people in the company who can do the job. So the BAAA is not just one negotiator and i really dont feel we would have got what we had if BALPA involved. Many have complained about the pay deal but when u look at it the majority voted yes, many may not have voted but still we accepted it. So now we need to find someone else who will negotiate for us. The crew council have achieved a lot so we just find the right man/woman to move it on.

Know anyone ???

3rd May 2001, 19:42
Well said HP, its true what you have said BALPA would have given us nothing!!! look at what the new council have done over the past year or so, and compare that to what the old one done!! we were lucky if we got 1 letter a year from the old council setup and as for pay, well we didn't even get to vote on it. Yes Stuart was very good at his job, and its a shame he's going however it is time to move on and if the 146 guys think they can do any better then let em try!!! But remember the council has to fight for all fleets not just the one they are on!!! :)

Bandit *bob*
5th May 2001, 11:30
Ref the transfer date 21/05/01. I hear that ABZ control are not ready to handle the additional flights. They seem to be overworked at the moment but i think this may send some of the staff up there over the edge.I think better forward planning by management is required.
Get the personnel in first before taking on additional flights. Time will tell.
Good luck ABZ Staff !!!

5th May 2001, 19:04
HP & Snowjoke
You seem to believe in Stuart which is a good thing for the 146. How can you say that we should be dealing with the whole group not just one fleet when you guys are doing exactly that and saying if the 146 boys do'nt like it they can leave? There is alot of promise in BMC but we have no idea what we will be doing from August 2002, and the silence from ABZ is doing so much harm.

Capt Homesick
6th May 2001, 06:57
The argument about the 145 rise being better than the 146 crews got seems spurious. I went on the 145 partly because I was assured that the aim was to bring the 145 salary up to the level of the 146! The only way that could be achieved would be by giving us at least one bigger rise than the 146 crews...
MayDay! MayDay! I'm down to 2 engines now! Oh yeah, that's how many I'm SUPPOSED to have (oops)..... Disregard!

6th May 2001, 12:44
Here are some things that could happen:

The fokker may end up being crewed by BMC.

BMC may get a Fokker replacement.

bmi may require direct entry captains at LHR.

For the 146 contract to be extended may suit the company nicely because they want to keep the experience pool they have there.

Low experience new entrants to the group and cadets may all go on the ERJ/146. If so the transfer scheme will accelerate.

A world recession could slow the whole thing down.

None of this is true. It is possible. What would you rather hear. The truth or speculation. If you want the latter then you're in the right place here and now.

What is true is:

The 146 contract runs to August 2002.

The ERJ expansion will guarantee everyone continuous employment.