LOA is going down, blame the babysitter

[exleckie]

Read in the RAF News that LOA is going to be reduced by about 20% to 25%.

The reasoning behind the cut is that people overseas do not use babysitters as much as they used to! Defies me.

Let's take Cyprus as an example. Many wives / husbands leave good, well paid jobs to follow their other half, thus imposing an immediate financial restriction on many families. (both with and without children). It also has a big effect on the finances of single airmen / women / officers.

Since 2002, Cyprus has seen massive increases in the price of fuel, VAT, domestic goods, food etc. (e.g. Fuel for cars and heating has more than doubled. Before anyone has a go about heating, it gets bl@@dy cold throughout winter)

Couple the above with a poor exchange rate ( £1 Uk = C£0.82),along with the cost of living becoming significantly higher than the UK, I believe LOA should be going up, not down in accordance with the relative cost of living.

In essence, even though it is a fantastic posting, the financial constraints on families is enough already without worsening their quality of life via LOA reduction.

The lack of jobs for dependants is also dire. If they are lucky to get a job, it is a paltry wage. (C£2 p h, any takers?)

Could this be why many couples / families break up in Cyprus?

With a cut in LOA, I fear the situation will degenerate further.

Thoughts please.

Exleckie.

[D-IFF_ident]

Here's what I got:

Changes to the costing conventions used to calculate LOA, reflecting the changing trends in lifestyles of people living in the UK which is reviewed every 4 years.

EFFECTIVE FROM: 01 Oct. 05

KEY POINTS:

· The latest review of UK lifestyles has revealed a marked reduction in the use of babysitters from 6.5 hours per week to 5 hours every 2 weeks.

· The new review addresses the disparity between the amount included within LOA and the amount provided by Operational Welfare Package (OWP) for telephone usage. The LOA contribution will rise for all personnel to 20 mins per week.

· All mains station LOA areas will change from 1 Oct 05 to ensure fairness.

SOURCE: DIB 2005/15

DETAIL:

The July 2004 UK Lifestyle Review which is to be used for the next 4 years for LOA calcualtion purposes has revealed a number of changes to the previous one carried out in 2000. Most significantly, the amount of babysitting being used has markedly reduced. Given that babysitting is one of the areas that LOA considers, any reduction in babysitting usage will result in a drop in LOA for married accompanied personnel. This applies to all
overseas areas and in order to ensure equity and fairness, the DMB has directed that the expected reductions in LOA be applied universally on 1 Oct 05.

One can only hope that all other areas have been thoroughly investigated, such as personnel taking their kids out with them when they go out for meals. That's what I do, because it is now more socially acceptable to have screaming brats in tow. I expect an increase of around 50% therefore.

[dogstar2]

Now lets examine why people are using babysitters less frequently - probably because they have less disposable income than they used to for leisure acitivities meaning that they cannot afford to go out as frrequently as they used to. Solution: Reduce the amount of disposable income even more by reducing LOA.

[JessTheDog]

I am glad I am no longer serving. That daily feeling of the blood boiling has been left behind!

Cutting an allowance because of a perceived reduction in babysitting trends! What a joke! It is more likely that babysitting has declined because personnel of the overstretched Armed Forces want to spend as much time with their kids as possible before another OOA! :mad:

[vecvechookattack]

Seems very odd. In the RN when we visit a country we get LOA from the time the ship hits the jetty until the minute it leaves. On some deployments stretching 6/7 months you may be lucky to get LOA for about 20 odd days. Whenever I have been deployed there hasn't been a babysitter in sight and so I can't see what that has got to do with LOA. In fact, as I have said to my Mrs on many occasion..."don't worry love, You pay the council tax and I'll pay the LOA"....

[exleckie]

vecvechookattack,

Hmmmmm, I don't understand the RN rules but it makes sense that if you are in port in a foreign place, an LOA should be issued. Do you get a "being at sea allowance?" I don't know so please let me know.

As far as the land forces are concerned, you should get an allowance (LSSA) if you are deployed, but if you are posted to Germany/ Gib/ Cyprus (look at that, I've almost exhausted the o'seas posting choices), Living Overseas Allowance is crucial for many to their survival.

Many people, and I will use Cyprus as an example again, are financially penalised by exchange rates and Cyprus's attempts to bring themselves into line with EU tax harmonisation. i.e everything goes up in price.

The result is that families struggle (mainly the JR's) to cope with everyday living.

I think that the replies so far disagree with LOA reduction and moreso, the reasoning behind it.

I for one would certainly like to speak to the people who chaired the review as I never saw any paperwork asking me about life in Cyprus.

More thoughts please.

Exleckie

[Impiger]

LOA is indeed tricky stuff being designed to ensure the average Serviceman is no worse off overseas when living the same lifestyle as the average Serviceman at home (ignoring wives/partners earnings to be sure). Of course nobody is actually average and for each man who complains there is probably another keeping schtum and banking the proceeds or polishing his smart duty free car. There is a massive industry involved in checking the spending patterns of Servicemen in UK and then comparing the costs overseas. It does throw up some anomalies though. In the 90s in a secret Netherlands NATO HQ I was paid almost 3 times as much LOA as my friend at the equally secret German Phantom base a mere 30 minutes drive away - of course I didn't complain but when I enquired how this might have come about I was told it was because we couldn't shop at the NAAFI - we could of course use the USAF BX about 40 minutes in the other direction but that's another story.

Bottom line - its about as fair as you can expect from a system designed to prove that nobody is getting an unfair advantage.

[exleckie]

Fair comment Impiger.

As far as duty free cars are concerned, it is cheaper to buy a car in the UK or other EU countries than Cyprus.

Naafi goods as far as duty free goes are at least 30% higher in price than what you what you would pay in the UK.

It is actually more prudent to buy online than buy from the Naafi.

But, many people are suffering from a poor exchange rate. £1000 Uk = £800 cypriot with a one for one uk / cypriot cost of living, LOA is more important than ever.

Most people buy second hand cars out here because buying new is , well, not realistic. They usually pay for their second hand car from the proceeds of the one they had to sell because it would be too much to ship one out.

But, I see your point.

Exleckie

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Extracts from DIB 2005/15: (Unclas)

2. LOA aims to represent the necessary extra costs of living abroad; it is not an inducement for service abroad, a reward either for service in adverse conditions or compensation for separation and turbulence. It is not designed to fund an improved
lifestyle overseas, to make allowance for any representational responsibilities or to assist with the purchase of capital items like cars or garden furniture. LOA does not take account of any loss of spouses’ earnings. The allowance is designed to cover the necessary extra costs incurred by the average Service person and their accompanying families; it does not attempt to reflect the precise circumstances of particular individuals. It is assumed that personnel are expected to spend the same amount of salary on day-to-day living that they do in the UK, with LOA only meeting
the assessed necessary extra costs. If the assumed lifestyle is not more expensive than the UK, personnel are judged to be able to live on their normal pay and no LOA is paid.

3. LOA rates are produced by adding together the total overseas expenditure on all items included in the budget (which includes food, clothing, laundry, toiletries, postage and telephones) and subtracting the total of UK expenditure. Particular local conditions may also give rise to inclusion of additional elements in the calculations – for instance, extra drinking water in a hot country. Once these two sets of calculations are made, the extra expenditure necessary in that overseas area is apparent. In some areas of the world the result is a zero or even negative figure; in these cases no LOA is payable, because UK pay by itself allows the assumed living standard to be maintained.

5. The Conventions for the 2005 Cycle cover: Meals Out, Drinks Out, Mess Functions, Drinks in Mess, Food in Mess, Home Entertainment, Food at Home, Drinks at Home, Public Transport, Pre-Recorded Music, Newspapers/Magazines, Telecommunications, Sports & Hobbies, Dry Cleaning, Laundry, Running a Car, Household Cleaning Materials, Stationery/Postage, Toiletries, Clothing, Cigarettes, Hairdressing, Cinema/Spectator Sports, Toys, Baby Sitting, TV/Video, Domestic
Assistance, Bank Charges and Leave Accommodation.

6. The exact amount of any change resulting from adopting these new Conventions will not be known until the calculations are completed during the Summer of 2005, although it is expected to be between +3% and -20%. Furthermore, although Gibraltar, Italy, Brunei & Germany will have been fully reviewed using the new Conventions between now and 1 Oct 05, any reductions
resulting from these reviews will be held until 1 Oct 05, whilst any increases will be promulgated via the usual methods.

So, as the only identifed area of reduction is babysitting, when you take into account all of the 'conventions' listed above, how do you justify a 20% drop?


SBG:mad:

[exleckie]

Civvy contractor in Cyprus gets.

Above average salary.£34k

£600 pm housing allowance.

£600 pm overseas allowance.

School fees for dependant children. £3500

travel allowance for leave to go home to UK etc £1200 per year.

detachment rate, £45 per day (increasing to (£90 per day for field conditions)

Tax free salary


Satisfaction of leaving the Forces and doing the same job with loads more cash and less risk of going away / missus sha@@@ng around / being shot / finding money to pay for a babysitter etc etc.

[vecvechookattack]

Do you get a "being at sea allowance?" strangely yes we do...and the last time I was claiming it, it was in the region of £10 a day......wow...£300 a month for spending yr life in a floating tin box....wicked !!!

[SilsoeSid]

Being at Sea Allowance.....Navy! ....Heaven forbid! ;)

LOA, What an interesting subject........
LOA = Car at end of posting, nights out, better social life than in UK. Remember, most of you asked to serve abroad!

Cyprus;
Naafi goods as far as duty free goes are at least 30% higher in price than what you what you would pay in the UK. If NAAFI prices are too high, buy locally, it's cheaper!:rolleyes:
Most people buy second hand cars out here because buying new is , well, not realistic.
Most people buy second hand cars to use while out there because the roads are so bad and buy new 6 months before EOT! (if they haven't pi$$ed it away or got the home cinema etc!)
As far as duty free cars are concerned, it is cheaper to buy a car in the UK or other EU countries than Cyprus. Cyprus is in the EU!
Could this be why many couples / families break up in Cyprus? No, that will be because of one of 2 things.
1. Homesickness, which strikes in all postings!
2. The Aya Napa effect. Beaches/Birds/Booze!
The result is that families struggle (mainly the JR's) to cope with everyday living. Welcome to reality!

Baby sitting!!!
Cyprus/Abroad in general is more family orientated than the UK, go out as a family. If you complain about how much time you are away from your family, spend quality time with the children!

The Conventions for the 2005 Cycle cover:
Meals Out, Drinks Out, Mess Functions, Drinks in Mess, Food in Mess, Home Entertainment, Food at Home, Drinks at Home, Public Transport, Pre-Recorded Music, Newspapers/Magazines, Telecommunications, Sports & Hobbies, Dry Cleaning, Laundry, Running a Car, Household Cleaning Materials, Stationery/Postage, Toiletries, Clothing, Cigarettes, Hairdressing, Cinema/Spectator Sports, Toys, Baby Sitting, TV/Video, Domestic
Assistance, Bank Charges and Leave Accommodation.
And which one of these is cheaper in the UK!!!


I get the impression that there are some posting here that have never been posted to the UK, let alone lived in their own house in the UK. Perhaps then you will realise what a perk LOA is.
I guarantee that when you return from your LOA haven abroad, at some early stage after you reach the shores of blighty you will say;
" We could really do with that extra LOA money!"

Reality check.
You are born/bred in one end of the UK, your family lives in one end of the UK, you are posted to the other end of the UK. Do you get LOA?
Same circumstances, but this time you are posted to Germany. Possibly closer/quicker to your family and cost of living locally is less. Do you get LOA?

Bottom line - its about as fair as you can expect from a system designed to prove that nobody is getting an unfair advantage. Why is LOA different for different ranks?


Taking cover!!!http://www.jms101.btinternet.co.uk/basic_sets/bodies/army2/smiley.gif
SS

[Scud-U-Like]

I have to agree with SilsoeSid. LOA for families in Cyprus is very generous and will remain so, even after any adjustment for the current cost of living.

[Cambridge Crash]

Exleckie,

I may only be a student, but I am sure that you will correct me if I am wrong....

LOA is not paid if a service person is in receipt of OWP.

Overseas Fuel Allowance is a per capita rate which covers variatuions in local fuel and electricity costs.

The sooner the 'tax free' scams of Cyprus and Italy are finished, the better...they are divisive and encourage personnel to stay long past their sell-by date in order to harvest premium cars.

CC

[exleckie]

Cambridgdge Crash,

It used to go like this. When deployed and OWP was in receipt, LOA ceased to be paid. Upon return, LOA was re-started and back paid to when it was originally stopped. Bizarre, you bet.

I believe that now, OWP and LOA are payable together, but don't quote me on that, I need to get clarification.

I am not aware of an overseas fuel allowance. I would have thought Fuel costs were built into LOA.

There are no Tax free scams. Yes, you are entitled to buy vehicles duty free but in most cases, you can buy cheaper from the UK.

Personnel generally do not get extended beyond their original EOT date, so certainly are not encouraged to stay to harvest tax free cars.

Incidentally, the Sovereign Base Areas are not in the EU.

SS,

I will get back to you on some of your observations.

Cheers,

Exleckie

[force_ale]

There seems to be alot of people here who have gotten Cyprus confused with Germany.
Fuel is not tax free, car prices(new and second hand) are kept artificially high by thiefing salesman. Electrical goods are overpriced inside the wire so as not to flood the Republic with cheap goods courtisy of the Treaty of Establishment and just overpriced outside the wire.
Cyprus is a good tour but it is also a very expensive one. Being lucky enough to have been on squadrons in both Germany and Cyprus I can say that the LOA is very much needed there if not just to compensate for the racist rules concerning spouse employment (jobs have to be offered to locals first and then offered to dependants at a wage fixed below UK min wage).

[exleckie]

SS,

If NAAFI prices are too high, buy locally, it's cheaper!

As already stated, it is cheaper to shop online and you are right, for certain items it is cheaper to buy local and most do.

Being at Sea Allowance.....Navy! ....Heaven forbid!

Okay, you got me on that. Was a bit slow on that one.

Most people buy second hand cars to use while out there because the roads are so bad and buy new 6 months before EOT! (if they haven't pi$$ed it away or got the home cinema etc!)

Yes and no. Depends on financial circumstances of individuals and couples. Yes some choose to spend their dosh on cars, others don't. It's called freedom of choice.

Cyprus is in the EU!

Yes it is and they have very high duties on vehicles. Some as high as C£2.01 per CC of your vehicle. Work that out for a 2 ltr car. Then add on VAT, other taxes and the cost of the vehicle itself and things start to get very expensive. e.g New Audi A4 entry model, just C£ 39000. (don't forget to convert that to sterling, £1 UK =C£0.82.) I am only using Audi as an example, I am not suggesting that everyone in Cyprus buys Audi A4s.

But, The Sovereign base areas are not in the EU. Hence duty free entitlement, a seperate police force, its' own laws, its' own customs service etc

Perhaps then you will realise what a perk LOA is.

Yes it is. But it is there for a reason.

Why is LOA different for different ranks?

A very good point which nobody seems to get a true, honest response when the question is asked.


Regards,

Exleckie

Force_ale.


Hoot \'n\' Roar !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!