Eastern Australia Airlines [Archive]

Chris21

19th May 2005, 23:44

My sources tell me that the current QFLink fleet consists of:

13 x Dash 8 (100)
5 x Dash 8 (200)
16 x Dash 8 (Q300)
7 x Dash 8 (Q400) due for delivery in the first half of 2006 w options on a further 10.

Just guessing but my thinking is the majority of the 300's are based in SYD with Eastern and BNE with Sunstate and probably where the Q400's would go first sending more 300's to replace the 100 and 200's in other bases like MEL for Eastern and CNS for Sunstate which from what I can gather are the bases at the moment where the majority of flying is solo flying?

I am obviously not current crew but thinking back to my interview it was mentioned that you can expect at least one overnight a week in exotic locations? You can find info on conditions, salary and allowances at www.wagenet.gov.au by searching on Eastern Australia Airlines Flight Attendants.

Maybe someone can confirm?

Also for another topic on the forum but from it would appear that now there has to be some vacancies made available soon as current QFLink / Jetstar crew are about to get some career progression into mainline?

QF skywalker

20th May 2005, 01:12

Solo flying is rostered for all bases on eaa/sunstate.

The fleet numbers that were quoted in a previous post are the combined fleet numbers for eaa/sunstate.

The first -400's are going to sunstate.
They will still operate with two crew only and a new in-flight service is being designed in order to ensure 72pax can be fed by 2 cabin crew in such short time.

Sunstate does not have a TSV base - BNE and CNS only.

The ex southern a/c have been disposed of and sent to Airlines of PNG. This is also including VH-TNG/TND which are ex sunstate.

VH-TQT is a shared Dash 8-100 which eastern and sunstate both utilise depending on what operator has an a/c in maintenance at that particular time.

EAAFA

22nd May 2005, 01:04

To funbus_flighty,

Good luck with your application.

You're right in assuming that flying for Eastern out of Melbourne is the same as the Dash flying was for Southern. We are rostered to fly to Mildura, Devonport, Burnie-Wynyard and Canberra. We also fly to Mount Hotham during the skiing season.

However, we will soon have more variety with the addition of Wollongong and Newcastle flights. We also cover Sydney flying when they are short staffed, but these types of duties are few and far between.

On average we are rostered to fly between 120 and 130 hours over a 28 day period, but this includes reserve days, so depending on how often crewing need us, our monthly hours can be between 130 and 140. Most of our days are 4 sectors long and overnights (3 to 5 a month) are usually 3 sectors on the first and 3 on the second day. Trips involving more than one night away from home base are very rare.

If you have any more questions, please ask.

QFRegional

22nd May 2005, 12:08

1. Sydney base will retain the wollongong overnight as per the new roster which starts tomorrow as we will be loosing the Ballina overnight from 11 July when QFLink pull out of that port for Jetstar.

2. There are also strong rumours that QFLink will be pulling out of Newcatle with the increased flying planned for Jetstar out of that port.

3. Sydney based crew have picked up some great Melbourne overnights in the new roster including 3 day trips Melbourne/Port Macquaire with quite long slips for a change.

4. The Cabin Crew Line Supervisor is actually the Cabin Crew Team Manager although she is still referred to within the company as the supervisor. All letters etc signed by her have her new title as I received one last week.

beachwave40

23rd May 2005, 00:12

is that eastern or sunstate for NTL, cause I herd they might put the 400's in on certain runs.how true though. who knows.

easternboy

23rd May 2005, 00:51

Eastern certainly wont be using their 400's on NTL and I dont think Sunstate will be either. The 400's will be used on major routes where the 300's service more than 3-4 times a day such as CBR ex Sydney.

EAAFA

24th May 2005, 00:16

To QFRegional,

I obtained an explanation over the confusion over KM's title: it hasn't changed officially but will next month. I don't know why she's already using it.

Also, the Wollongong overnights will be shared in future between SYD and MEL crews (according to a very reliable source).

Chris21

3rd Jun 2005, 01:32

So no response to my letter and phone calls unanswered, before I annoy the KM again - it's now the begining of June and I have exactly 27 days before my time on active hold expires.

Eastern Boy, EEAFA, QF Regional, Brown Eyed Girl.. what are the chances?? do you have any info to share?? feel free to PM me

I am sensing an unsuccessful letter for young Chris21 just around the corner :ugh:

easternboy

3rd Jun 2005, 02:25

There is a major recruitment drive happening at the moment, with lots of interviews being held during the past week. Have heard 3 ground schools are being scheduled for very early in the new financial year. Regional progression to Qantas will also be occuring, although dates are yet to be decided therefore more crew will be required and we are currently very short staffed in Sydney.

If I was you I would call KM, she is really nice and I am sure she wouldnt mind talking to you.

EAAFA

6th Jun 2005, 05:57

As easternboy said, ground schools are planned for the new financial year. Even though we have been understaffed, management has had to wait until the new financial year to recruit.

Since you were impressive enough to be placed on a waiting list, there may be a chance that management will extend the expiry date of your application, so keep trying to reach KM (always better than leaving a message).

easternboy

6th Jun 2005, 13:12

EAAFA

As you know we are so short staffed at the moment BUT it was confirmed today a ground school will be happening in July for a huge total of 3 people. Can you believe it, crew are being drafted, working on days off but all eastern could get approval for from Qantas was 3 whole people. Nothing ceases to amaze me with this company.

EAAFA

7th Jun 2005, 09:23

On behalf of all of the Eastern f/a-s, I'd like to say THAT SUCKS! :mad:

MELBRO

7th Jun 2005, 11:31

You said it EAAFA

Go SYD base crew think of all the IPD days you will get.

EAAFA

27th Jun 2005, 13:40

What is the feeling in the Sydney base about our Cabin Crew Manager's message "clarifying" the EBA? Everyone in Melbourne is LIVID.:mad:

overhere

28th Jun 2005, 08:56

Whats the pay like at Eastern out of SYdney?

SocialFlyer

28th Jun 2005, 20:43

Hey EAAFA

Are you able to tell us what exactly was clarified about the EBA, or is it confidential.... I was just interested to know....

Cheers

BombardierBrat

29th Jun 2005, 06:27

Hi Everyone,

I recently made it through the June recruitment intake in SYD and I have had my medical and submitted my background check paperwork to ID Services QCD....so now I am patiently sitting around waiting for something to happen! lol :p

Sooooo this week is the end of the current financial year; does anyone on the inside know if and when EAA are going to run a new ground school in SYD for the newbies?

What’s the latest rumors this week?

BombardierBrat :ok:

Chris21

29th Jun 2005, 06:39

Well I was in a simmilar position to yourself bombardier brat just a little under a year ago.. waiting.. waiting.. waiting.. now nearly 12 months later still waiting.. the latest I have been told is that there is a school going through in July but they can't tell me how many or who will be in this one (new hires, or people like me who have been on that list for a lifetime) they have since extended my time on the shortlist for an unspecified period of time - so going by that I suspect that I will make the regional flying ranks by the time I am 50.

So happy waiting.. hope yours is not as painful as mine.

Chris:D

easternboy

1st Jul 2005, 11:27

EAAFA

In a word "disgusted" but not surprised. If these are the tatics this EX FAAA President/AN Cabin Manager/Come Cabin Crew manager is going to employ well we certainly have some interesting times ahead.

The 15 point notice issued to crewing late last Friday evening was even more insightful. Drafting, requesting dispensations, single f/a operations on the 300 and the list goes on.

Sydney based flight attendants are furious thus the high sick leave rate and the we could care less attitude. If this is the type of support and leadership we are to expect well sick leave will continue to spiral out of control.

Chris21

A ground school started on Monday for a total of 3 people. According to management we are not understaffed, however crew are being drafted on a daily basis and dispensations are being requested from the FAAA, people working on days off and crew being asked to give back annual leave but oh no we are not understaffed.

jupiter2

2nd Jul 2005, 01:32

easternboy

just curious.....
is there anything in the "clarification" info that's outside the boundaries of your current award contract and what is being negotiated in the next EBA?

EAAFA

3rd Jul 2005, 08:21

Jupiter2,

I know your question was directed to easternboy, but I'm sure you won't mind an answer from someone else.

The "clarifications" were not entirely incorrect, but they were loopholes in our existing EBA, needless to say, loopholes which do not work in the favour of the cabin crew.

easternboy,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that might have been the case.

Chris21

4th Jul 2005, 00:27

Thanks for the update Eastern boy – when I called KM and mentioned the 3 people in a ground school she didn’t confirm but basically told me that they will look at all people on the short list. So would be interested to know if they were recently recruited or from recruitment months and months ago. But either way how ridiculous.

So by the sounds of things Eastern is not safe from the current QF way of slashing staff moral and burning existing resources in the name of profit. I feel like all opportunities to get into the industry have been eroded and there is no point even trying to get into the anymore as there is no chance. That’s it I feel.

easternboy

5th Jul 2005, 04:04

Chris21

Have been advised the 3 currently in ground school were recruited less than 12 months ago.

It was explained to me by a recruitment team member that each applicant that is successful and goes onto the short list is scored (same or very similar to QF). If someone who was interviewed say 6 months ago scored higher than someone did 12 months ago they will go onto the short list above that person thus the reason why recently recruited people get a start date over others and vice versa. All comes down to your score and that dictates your position on the short list.

Eastern is not a bad company to work for generally, but you cant make a career out of being a dash 8 flight attendant, but than again there are not many options available these days anyway. Its a great starting point so dont write it off as an option, just be patient but continue to follow-up with KM. She came back from holidays yesterday so she may have some new info. Just send her an e-mail.

johnny utar

6th Jul 2005, 08:21

just to clarify a few things,

EAA wanted more people than 3 people but QF only allowed 3 as once we stop flying to Ballina and get rid of TQO we will be fine for numbers.

for those of you waiting for a call up be patient as a progression school will be going across to QF before DEC 05. meaning 10 people will be recieving a phone call in the next couple of months.

good luck to those waiting. :D :D

easternboy

6th Jul 2005, 10:38

Isnt TQO already out of service? Ballina is going but additional services to Canberra, Dubbo and Port Macquaire more than make up for the loss of this route not to mention the new Wollonggong services. Add to this the fact that more than 3 girls are soon to stop flying due to being pregnant, another recently stoped earlier than expected.

Sunday was an absolute debacle and if we had the 3 new crew available on Sunday there still would have been flight cancellations due to lack of flight attendants.

Crew are being asked to give back annual leave for the months of August/September. I understand that EAA hands are tied and these decisions are made by QF so lets hope QF realise the situation is that bad that flights are now being cancelled.

As for career progression do you know something the company and faaa dont? According to both no information is available as Qantas and the FAAA have not even met as yet to discuss the "time frame and process". Let us know what you know, please put us out of the misery? Have heard strong rumours from cc management that it maybe more than 10 but certainly a minimum of 10. Under the agreement QF are under no obligation to take us until 1 July, 2006 although as we know it always seems to happen within a few months once the external's are made permanent.

johnny utar

7th Jul 2005, 20:25

i am sooooooo sorry i personally cant put you out of your misery with the info i know, but all i can say is that a min of 10 people will be definately going before christmas, the 10 or maybe more will be told this info in the next 11 weeks!!!!!:D :D :D :D :D

EAAFA

8th Jul 2005, 03:47

I'll believe it when I see it.:hmm:

blondeontour

8th Jul 2005, 11:06

The so called July 2006 that Eastern Boy says that will b the next progression...where does that come from???
There hasn't been one in the 1st 6 months this year so that means 10 that haven't moved...then there is this current 6 months to go...any movement at the station NO..who would want to work at EAA for a pittance (go on the dole for some REAL MOOLAH) when you get work as a MAM cas,get $258.00 /month in MISC expenses YES as a casual that is just one of the allowances they get...same as SH CC...GOOD LUCK down there EAA CC Miss You HEAPS...Go for the JUGULAR for the next EBA if you can

GalleyHag

11th Jul 2005, 00:42

blondeontour

What The?

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, so maybe its best you stick to what you know.

However for your reference what I think easternboy was referring to was the "Career Progression Agreement" which states that 10 people from eastern WILL progress when 32 or more external applicants have been made permanent. If for operational reasons QF cannot take the 10 within the 6 month period that the externals are made permanent (in this case 1 July 2005 to 31 December 2005) it can be pushed back to the following 6 months being 1 January 2006 to 30 June, 2006. Which means as QF have made 32 MAM casuals permanent from 1 July, 2005 QF MUST take regional progression no later than 30 June, 2006. From all reports though regional progression will be occuring when the short haul to long haul transfers occur in November.

As you are not aware, career progression only occurs when there is permanent external recruitment. However in 2004 19 people from eastern alone progressed, 8 were owed from 2003 and 11 positions were negotiated by the FAAA. Now in 2005 a further 10 will progress. This is just eastern also included are sunstate and Jetstar. Career progression has occured in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 and 2005 it didnt occur in 2003 due to Sars and the War. By any standards in the current climate thats pretty good going so I wouldnt be so quick to write them off.

True the salary is not fantastic but you are forgetting they have 5-6 days away per month, 6 weeks holidays, staff travel, sick leave the opportunity to earn more $$ by working on Days off worth something like $300 plus if you are prepared for the wait you are GUARANTEED a position within Qantas short haul after 2 years service. The regional progression list is like a short list you are never taken off unless you leave and this guarantees you a permanent position when available. Can you say the same for MAM casuals I think not.

Dont be so quick to judge other peoples positions or decisions. The options in our industry and within Qantas are very limited at present and some months with the hours that MAM casuals get you are the one that may have been better off on the dole.

blondeontour

19th Jul 2005, 08:02

Galley Hag...
I do know what I am talking about as I have seen soooo many GOOD people leave EAA due to the poor salary & the some of the conditions that seem to be detiorating on a weekly basis with mgmt creating loopholes when they seem fit with what seems to be NIL input from operating crew..yes the MONDAY to FRIDAY 9 to 5ers...you go on a progression list AFTER 2 years service(blood sweat & abuse) but at this stage to progress over to QF is upto what 5 or 6 years...

Go hard for conditions & PAY at the next EBA

m00ving_on

1st Aug 2005, 06:27

As someone who works for Eastern, I believe that management is bluffing whenever they threaten to take away progression. They are well aware that progression is the only reason people tolerate the rubbish dished out by management month after month. 99 if not 100 per cent of the current staff would leave if progression was taken away.

m00ving_on

1st Aug 2005, 08:47

Biscuit Chucker,

I find your highly emotional message very offensive.

Judging by your message, I assume that you have been with the company 5+ years. Have you ever considered that if cabin crew in the past had been more assertive when hammering out each successive EBA, your time at Eastern would not have been as difficult?

No one is saying "forget progression, we want more money now", but rather "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".

Do you really think that Eastern management would be stupid enough to discard progression? If they did they wouldn't be able to hold on to cabin crew longer than a few months at a time. There is no way they could afford the cost involved in recruiting and training new crew at the rate of staff turnover they would have.

It is precisely because people in the past have panicked at the thought of losing progression that the company has been able to keep working conditions and benefits at such a low level.

m00ving_on

2nd Aug 2005, 01:13

Thanks for clarifying your views, Biscuit Chucker.

When you use terms like "RAPE", "step over own mothers" and "spitting in their workmates' eyes", it doesn't take a delicate sensibility to be offended.

Also, Eastern would have to increase wages by a huge amount in order to attract cabin crew who would be willing to stay at EAA with no progression to QF to look forward to, and that will never happen for economic reasons.

I don't see how you can judge people so harshly because they want a fair deal, nor do I see why you think that demanding better conditions would mean the loss of progression.:confused:

lfdlfp

3rd Aug 2005, 03:23

rocketry, it sounds like you are an ex-union rep who wants a pat on the back.

Don't get me wrong, I know the faaa reps do a lot for cabin crew, however the "successes" you list should be measured against the normal working conditions in other companies and businesses.

For example, in my 1st year at Eastern I earned LESS than in my previous PART TIME JOB AS A SALES ASSISTANT!

You should find out about the pay and conditions at other regional airlines at the same time that you were at Eastern (Sunstate, Southern, Kendall, etc). You'll find that the Eastern eba was woefully behind the industry standard. Nothing to brag about.:hmm:

NB This was a reply to a posting which has for some reason been deleted. In short it was praising the EBA.

easternboy

3rd Aug 2005, 13:01

Are you 2 new crew? If so I will save you the trouble of worrying about the EBA. We will get 3% per year just like every other division of Qantas, maybe a small % increase in allowances and maybe a few other minor amendments here and there to the EBA. Do you people not know what happens within other divisions of our parent company? Everyone gets the same, we will not get any more money and there is nothing we or the faaa can do about it.

I would be interested to know how you intend to achieve a better outcome than previous crew?

lfdlfp

4th Aug 2005, 01:11

easternboy,

please read the postings before commenting on them.

Your replies are totally misplaced. No one mentioned an increase to the base salary. I for one know very well that 3% per annum is what the whole of Qf gets, and we will never get more. There are other ways to pay us appropriately for the work we do (band payments, decent dta, etc), but since you are in the know, I shouldn't need to enlighten you.

How can we achieve it: BY EXPRESSING OUR VIEWS! We may not get everything we ask for, but we definitely won't get anything with a defeatist attitude. Whether we succeed or not, at least we'll know we tried.

easternboy

5th Aug 2005, 05:02

OK Fine.

m00ving_on

When has management ever threatened to take away career progression?

True many, many years ago something should have been done about the base salary, however I believe previous crew have been assertive to achieve things like meal allowances, payments for working past 2200 before days off, substantial payments for working on ddo etc.

You say "pay us accordingly for the work we do and reward us for our loyalty and service with the right to progress to mainline".
How were past crew going to be able to achieve this when it will be impossible for current crew like ourselves to achieve such outcomes?

I agree with you totally 99% of crew would leave if progression to mainline was not available and I also agree with you that we should not let progression get in the way of negotiating better conditions.

However, the FAAA has always said to us progression has nothing to do with the EBA and can not be negotiated during the EBA it is a totally seperate issue. However it was the company that introduced progression as industrial blackmail during the last EBA which can be evidenced from this gem which formed part of a newsletter dated 18 June 2003 after our last EBA was voted down the first time.

"It is not true that either Eastern or Qantas have in any way suggested that Career Progression will be withdrawn. However, Management has advised that the new Agreement providing extra Career Progression positions, will not be signed until an EBA has been satisfactorily resolved".

Therefore I see NO reason why we as crew and the FAAA cannot make the first move on this issue this time round. What I and a lot of crew would like to see is Eastern flight attendants will not resolve our upcoming EBA until the issue of career progression has been satisfactorily resolved now that Qantas only ever employ casual crew and that external permanent employment only ever occurs every couple of years.

I would very much like to hear though how you expect us to achieve a better outcome.

lfdlfp

True the 1st year salary is crap and to add insult to injury we work harder in terms of hours than any other flight attendant division within the group but during the last EBA the first year salary requirements were changed so 1st year crew have previous crew to thank for the fact their salary could have be a whole lot worse.

Are you saying we should replace our meal allowance system with DTA? If so you should do the figures and with the type of flying we do we are worse off. Sure if we did trips like Sunstate, short haul etc DTA would be option but right now its not. I would love to get paid more than my base hourly rate for working weekends and public holidays but are you willing to give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule to achieve such an outcome? Because if you get it in one hand the company will take away in the other. I for 1 would want to see a HUGE increase in my pay packet to give up that EBA clause.

Like most eastern flight attendants I go through days where I have just had enough which can be evidenced from my last post. However after some sleep im now back in a fighting mood towards the company, but I am yet to see from any posts on here any real ideas where our pay packets and lifestyles can be improved apart from fighting for progression. Remember it was the company not crew that balckmailed us last time round so I see no reason why this issue cannot be renegotiated considering the changes in the way Qantas employ crew into short haul and the effect this has on us.

EAAFA

5th Aug 2005, 11:14

It seems to me as if you are all on the same page...

I do have to say that I'm glad to finally see postings from Eastern staff on this issue, instead of ex-regional f/a-s telling us what to do.

It may not seem like much of a suggestion, but one way to start is for all crew to communicate their preferences to their FAAA representatives, so fill in your EBA surveys people, if you haven't already done so.

Also, I've heard that NG is working on changing Eastern flying to include multi-day trips. If this happens, DTA might be better than meal allowances.

As for the 7 hour limit on the second day of an overnight, I'm with you easternboy. I wouldn't give it up, especially now that we are doing overnights with 5 sectors on the 1st day.

lfdlfp

6th Aug 2005, 21:29

easternboy,

I agree with most of what you're saying. There's no secret to how to achieve gains in our eba, ie tough negotiation and not allowing management to divide us with spurious rumours.

If it comes to industrial action, we have to be united. Last time around a lot of people I know weren't prepared to strike, even though in the lead up they all complained about the pay and conditions.

I don't mean to bag previous Eastern staff, but let's face it, if Southern and Sunstate crews were on a better wicket in the years before we joined, it tells me that it was possible for Eastern crews to get a better deal too. If they'd been stronger, we wouldn't have needed to ask for BASICS in the last 2 eba-s.

EAAFA

7th Aug 2005, 09:43

I understand your frustration lfdlfp, but there's nothing to be gained from talking about the past EBA-s and former crew. Let's focus on the present!:ok:

mouse78

15th Aug 2005, 06:14

I'm new to pprune so welcome me! Just wanted to remind everyone that there is a EEA base at MQL! During all negotiations, arguments etc they are TOTALLY forgotten!!!!!
There are no o'nights (which is good for some, but poor for those who want to earn the extra allowances), if DTA's were introduced they would suffer hughely. So when you are looking at issues regarding the EBA etc, dont forget your "Country Cousins"!

;)

EAAFA

17th Aug 2005, 01:13

Hi mouse78,

Make sure you express your views to the FAAA. If you don't tell them what your needs are, they can't ensure your best interests are taken into consideration at the EBA negotiations.:ok:

QFRegional

23rd Aug 2005, 02:17

Could any eastern crew member please enlighten me to the relevance of that information put together by someone showing all other airline salaries compared to ours? What is the point of that information? Were eastern crew not aware of how much other airlines got paid?

Any news on progression? Any truth to the rumours that start dates are being withheld until wait for it "the eba has been resolved"?

blondeontour

26th Aug 2005, 12:53

Hi all..when the last eba was voted down,did everyone get a letter from the PHANTOM (Sunnies boss) posted to thier home address stating that if the eba wasn't voted up the 2nd time that progression would be taken away by eaa...after giving his "word" at meetings with crew that this would not happen.I got an email from the faaa 2day saying that 31 mams were made permanent in perth..a few xAN friends of mine got the job & commute back to melb.There might be an announcement in nov but do not hold your breath with this so called transparent management...a manager that should support her f/as or has she forgotten where SHE came from..what is the faaa doing about all the changes & her interpretations??? Probably NOTHING as they are too SCARED to go up against her.

OZcabincrew

26th Aug 2005, 17:19

Hey!

That's correct, 32 MAM casuals were made permanent QF F/A's as of July this year. Would you guys transfer to Perth if it is offered with career progression this time around? all career progression guys always seem to end up in Perth?

Oz

easternboy

27th Aug 2005, 05:02

blondeontour

Are you referring to the Eastern or Sunstate EBA?

Either way that information is wrong. Firstly no manager would ever send such a letter to crew on company letterhead and put their name to it. Secondly the Career Progression Agreement is between Qantas and the FAAA.

The following is from a newsletter on the faaa website www.faaadomestic.org.au dated 18/6/03

" It is not true that either Eastern or Qantas have in any way suggested that Career Progression will be withdrawn. However, Management has advised that the new Agreement providing extra Career Progression positions, will not be signed until an EBA has been satisfactorily resolved."

If you are referring to the Eastern EBA, there was never any question that progression would be taken away but the increase in numbers which were agreed to prior to the EBA would not be signed off by Qantas until the EBA was voted up. A bit of industrial blackmail as I call it.

I think you will find the actual number was 32 MAM casuals were converted to permanent as noted by ozcabincrew as well this was confirmed in a newsletter to short haul crew from the FAAA dated 19 May 2005. Furthermore a newsletter was issued to Eastern crew on 10 June 2005 in regard to progression and part of this is as follows:

The Association has been contacted by several flight attendants enquiring into career progression and when it will take place.

"As members are most likely aware, the Association wrote to Qantas Short Haul flight attendants in a newsletter regarding their full time establishment, in particular, to advise of meetings that had been held with Qantas and arrangements that are to be put in place to address this issue. Amongst these arrangements, a commitment was given by Qantas to move some MAM flight attendants to full time positions in July this year, which in turn will trigger movement of career progression."

For your reference the FAAA has raised the issue of career progression in meetings with Qantas. Qantas will give start dates when it suits them, but lets hope they take a few more people from each airline considering progression last occured over a year ago and we cant hope for it to occur for another year after this group go whenever that will be.

There maybe movement in November when the short haulers go over to long haul but who knows, not even Qantas I would imagine. I am hoping the cabin crew manager for Eastern and Sunstate does not get involved in holding up the start dates and tries to use this as an incentive/black mail to get the Eastern EBA voted up but we can only wait and see. To date whenever crew raise this issue with her she is fully supportive and communicates to us that she is aware of how important this issue is to crew. So for now I am taking her word for it.

As for forgetting where she came from - the same could be said for many managers within the Qantas group that change careers from flight attendants to managers. I am not defending her, however everyone has the right to change career paths for whatever reason and it just so happens that our Manager is an ex FAAA President. You cannot seriously expect her as a cabin crew manager to put on her FAAA hat and deal with situations as she would have while representing cabin crew. She is accountable to Eastern and Qantas management, they pay her salary and she has KPI's to meet, she is not there to make us happy but to meet budgets and contribute to the profit of the airline just like every other manager.

You are wrong, wrong and wrong about the FAAA. Just take a quick look at the FAAA website and you will see the many newsletters written by DM in regard to the very issues you mention. The FAAA workload in regard to Eastern has increased dramtically and this can be evidenced by the level of communication between the association and Eastern crew. Progression will always be our number 1 issue because we live on the poverty line but now we have all these other issues to deal with and I personally feel the FAAA has been on top of any ugly issue that raises its head and its uncalled for, for you to say they are doing nothing.

I certainly hope you are not an Eastern flight attendant because if you are you dont check your mail box very often as the newsletters are distributed in a timely manner now and they are also e-mailed and they also available via the website.

Some time ago the FAAA challeged the company on interpretations in the commission. We won some and lost some. As for the changes implemented by the new cabin crew manager. Sadly nearly 99% are legal and within the bounds of the EBA. Just what would you like the FAAA to do about this? Sure we hate working 152 hours a month, get drafted all the time, receive SMS's at 4.00am on days off and receive calls during your rest, work on the 300 series on your own (casa approved). But this is all legal.

I suggest you become better informed before making such statements in the future. Or better still take it up with the FAAA. DM will be more than happy to clarify the FAAA positions, without her support things could have been a whole lot worse.

Ozcabincrew

Impulse/Jetstar progression has always ended up in Perth but only 4 Eastern flight attendants have ever gone to Perth and that was in April 2004 a further 15 crew progressed in July 2004 and they all went to Sydney or Melbourne.

But to answer your question we now have to state which bases you would like being Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane or Perth or All Bases. Quite a lot of crew have selected all bases meaning if Perth is the only base available there are more than enough prepared to go.

GalleyHag

27th Aug 2005, 05:13

Easternboy, you should be a union rep. Excellent post with factual information and the evidence via the newsletters etc to back up your statements.

Lets hope the FAAA are in there working for you guys to get progression sorted out. Extra numbers may not be out of the question, look what the FAAA pulled off last year with no external permanent recruitment so anythings possible.

blondeontour

27th Aug 2005, 10:14

Thanks Galleyhag for the comments.
Easternboy...I do work for EAA.I do check my newsletters...I'm fed up with all the bitching that goes on & the amount of abuse that we get working as the REGIONAL airlines "face" (abuse as in working 152 or more hours a month..pressure to work on days off..300 flying & dispensations left right & centre ..does the faaa keep a record & reason why they seem to give them out willy nilly now that we have NG as manager..it didn't happen until she came along...she might be there as a qf manager but is there any MORALE in the crew room??? I don't think it has been there since LT went on mat leave.

easternboy

28th Aug 2005, 09:24

Well there is not a lot anyone can do about the bitching, it happens in every airline and its just a fact of life im afraid.

I agree, we are abused and treated like slaves compared with other airlines within the group. However, we all knew when we started with Eastern that we could be worked to 152 Hours it was in our letter of offer.

Furthermore its disgusting that we have to work our days off just to put food in our mouths and even if you wanted a lazy day laying around you receive constant sms messages and phone calls from crewing this is now bordering on harassement, as defined in the Eastern Standards of Conduct Book.

300 Flying is CASA approved and Sunstate has had this approval for quite some time. We should think ourselves lucky as Sunstate crew can be rostered 300 flying alone under their CASA approval whereas this is not the case with Eastern yet. The FAAA can do little about this issue apart from work with CASA and the company to find a solution.

Dispensations are not granted left, right and centre. Maybe they were some months ago but I am sure this is not the case now especially after the 15 or so point notice issued the crewing by the cabin crew manager in regard to better utilisation of crew to reduce the cost of calling in crew on days off. If at any time a dispensation has been granted you or any crew member effected should be given the name of the FAAA rep who approved it and you have the right to call that person to confirm the dispensation has been granted. Dispensations were one of the points to be covered before calling day off crew so I highly doubt dispensations are being granted at present with the high volume of day off crew working. Of course the FAAA keep a record of dispensation along with drafting levels and when crew advise the level of solo 300 flying, what they can do or achieve with this information is a question which can only be answered by the FAAA.

True before NG came along these things were not happening, however her role is not to boost morale. Her role like every manager within the Qantas group is to increase productivity, reduce cost, meet KPI's and the list goes on. The morale is at an all time low and I agree LT was a great people manager and the best Eastern has ever had in my day anyway.

Things are not going to get any better and by the time the EBA comes rolling around things should start to get very interesting for our management team.

GalleyHag

29th Aug 2005, 11:01

Was told today that progression WILL NOT occur until May/June next year and this information has been communicated to the FAAA by MH from Qantas, basically Qantas has no intention of taking progression until they have to under the agreement and if that happens it will be 2 years since the last school in June/July 2004.

Furthermore Qantas are pushing to have crew interviewed before they career progress. This has been banded around before but its surfaced again. I believe your manager has told crew though this will not occur and the FAAA have hit it on the head. But it appears to be back on the table again.

Just passing on the info I have heard but it is from a reliable source.

QFRegional

29th Aug 2005, 15:20

Thanks GalleyHag

That information was flying around the crew room thick and fast late today and crew are Pi**ed off like I have never seen them before. Crew truely believe this information has been withheld on purpose by QF/Eastern/FAAA for the very reason they dont want to deal with the fallout.

Thats right QF just screw us over again and again, I have had a gut full, if only the FAAA worked as hard on regional progression as they do for MAM crew, employed mind you well after many of the crew sitting on the regional progression list at eastern.

Just another example of how little we are even factored into the equation by QF.

It sh*ts me that people from Southern that were only in ground school are now in short haul, Impulse/Jet* crew are now in short haul even though they joined well after many sitting on the progression list. In fact Impulse wasnt even owed by QF but people sitting on the progression list where already flying for eastern for over a year before Impulse was purchased.

Just like the story peddled by the FAAA saying casuals would be controlled and there would still be a need for regional progression and permanent employment. Yeah right look at the number of permanent short haul flight attendants now on the senority list its just going down and down while casuals keep increasing.

I bet you my last dollar which is all I ever have that casual school after casual school will be put through before regional progression just like it was after the Perth short haul base opened and QF didnt take us for over a year.

As for the interview crap, this stems from people who went to Perth BUT if these people were interviewed prior to taking the position they would have breezed through as one was an EP Instructor/check and trainer/and a host of other roles the other a trainer and a blemish free crew member. So the whole interview system is just bullsh*t as QF wouldnt have given these people a second glance just ushered them through the door.

Mr Seatback 2

29th Aug 2005, 23:35

Agree with many of the points you've raised QFRegional...

By way of clarification, however, re:Impulse/Jetstar crews...

During Impulse EBA II negotiations, it was agreed between the parties that 8 crew would go over per career progression transfer under the terms of the Agreement.

This was done to:
a) Bring us into line with other QF Regionals (as we were then); and
b) Provide a career path into the 'parent' carrier from a much smaller carrier.

Like Eastern, we sacrificed some things in order to get it - as with any negotiation.

It wasn't done to undermine the position of any of the other Regional airlines - simply to bring us closer into line with Eastern and Sunstate.

By comparison, because Eastern and Sunstate have had CP a lot longer than Jet*, both airlines have a larger number of positions available compared to Jet*.

Eastern = 15 positions
Sunstate = 12 positions
Jetstar = 8 positions

This whole matter comes down to management bonuses and meeting KPI's. In Qantas' case, they don't want permanent crew - this affects the KPI for permanent crew on the books, and thus affects the bonus.

Fingers crossed that movement occurs sometime soon, against the odds.

easternboy

30th Aug 2005, 03:40

QFRegional, glad you got that off your chest? Its all very true though. If you look closely at the numbers QF have only employed 32 people externally into the short haul division since March 2003 (thats 16 per year). Qantas were fully aware of this situation when our last EBA was being negotiated but no concessions/changes/suggestions on career progression were or have been fourthcoming due to their changed hiring practices.

Mr Seatback 2 I think the point QFRegional is making is a fair point. There is crew who are in the 5th and 6th year with Eastern now while Jet* and (some junior - ground school junior)Southern crew are enjoying the fruits of short haul right now.

We have always been told Progression has absolutley nothing to do with the EBA and cannot and will not be discussed during an EBA. However this was introduced last time by the company via withholding of the increased numbers (by the way its 20 for Eastern like we are ever going to see the day 20 go in a year) until the EBA was voted up but still told by the FAAA progression has nothing to do with the EBA.

My point being how could Impulse negotiate progression during the EBA. What did you trade off? Is the agreement part of your EBA which can be renegotiated? Can you trade off other conditions now for better access to career progression? As we at eastern can do nothing in terms of progression. Its also interesting to note that Impulse had a seperate agreement to Sunstate and Eastern. We are part of the Regional Progression Agreement whereas Impulse/Jet* does not appear on our agreement even though the amended agreement was signed off well after you guys negotiated your progression numbers.

Something needs to be done about this issue and its only fair to the hard working eastern crew to be given an indication about their future direction one way or another. But as a lot of crew say the company/FAAA/Qantas will never tell us anything because the resignations would be flying in faster than an F1-11.

I do however have faith in the FAAA and their ability. A lot of crew believe they have no interest in this issue and are doing nothing which is not the case. They have nothing to report as yet and all we can do is trust that they will pursue this issue with Qantas. External permanent recruitment is an issue overall with the FAAA I am sure of that and progression is mixed up with all of those discussions so I can see why the process always takes a long time. For now Im putting my faith in the FAAA to represent the member feelings and communicate this to both our management and Qantas and see what outcome can be negotiated.

Mr Seatback 2

30th Aug 2005, 04:06

Same but different easternboy

We were told during our last EBA the same thing..."Oh, Career Progression has nothing do with this agreement", etc...only to be told that the company wanted a particular rest requirement reduced in order to meet schedule requirements.

Until this was met, no CP for us was the general hint!

SO...we developed a standing dispensation for this particular destination, rather than write it up in the EBA. Since then, we've stopped overnighting as a result of Jetstar, and have managed to retain CP in the absence of this trade off.

So while we traded off up to 30 minutes off our rest for CP, at only one of our destinations, we were still told by Qantas..."but this still has nothing do with the Agreement"...yeah...right!

We have a separate progression agreement that mirrors yours, but no one can seem to explain why we couldn't be included in your agreement. I believe it may have something to do with the original agreement dating back to the mid-nineties, and as we weren't a party to that agreement back then, we needed to have our own.

As Eastern, Sunnies and Southern all existed back then, you all came along as part of the QF takeover of Australian, et al. We, on the other hand, came along a few years later as you know - and so, a new agreement was developed for us.

20 for Eastern - yeah...like they'd want to release that many at once! Not that you're not owed it, I know - you guys work real hard for little reward!

The thing I can't understand (well I do, but I don't have to like it!) is why MAM crew got preference over regional crew for the recent round of permanent slots in Perth?

No offence intended to the MAM crew, far from it. And yes, I acknowledge that the extra training is a dis-incentive for the company - but compared to what? The multiple schools of MAM crew they've been churning out? You still start on year 1 salaries and so on...so what's the deal?

Why is it that QF won't willingly honour it's industrial agreements with its' subsidiary airlines, and yet pick up 32 people from a contractor for permanent work? Is it the leave and years of service accruals putting them off? It wouldn't be the pay or benefits - you start at the bottom again, you get B scale bands and your staff travel resets to when you join S/H!

Off to have a bex, and a nice lie down.

easternboy

30th Aug 2005, 05:09

Mr Seatback 2

Thanks for history on the Impulse/Jet* progression agreement. I just love how they drag out the progression agreement when they want something voted up, pleased to hear we are not the only ones effected. Its a good strategy by Qantas maybe one the FAAA should be adopting with Qantas, most Eastern crew would be happy to trade off some things for better access to progression and when I mean access I dont mean the current arrangement.

Eastern crew work hard and have no problem with that its just not sustainable for 6-8 years and get paid what we get. We were told progression would take x years during our interview and that was the selling point used by Eastern to recruit crew and still is to this day. However the post keeps moving and everyone washes their hands of the situation while externals and the casuals enjoy the positions.

To clarify a few points in regard to our agreement:

1. We are entitled to 20 positions per year. This is ahieved (but never will be) if 32 or more externals are placed into permanent positions between 1 Jan to 30 Jun = 10 progression from Eastern and same for the period 1 Jul to 31 Dec = another 10.

2. MAM's were not given preference as such as the progression agreement states that 32 or more externals in this case it was MAM have to be made permanent before activating progression. Progression is only suppose to happen once externals have been converted to permanent. This being my point on 1 July 2005 this year was the first time it has happened since March 2003. I agree Qantas should look after their own but they dont and the FAAA has to work for everyone therefore pushing for MAM's to be made permanent therefore triggering the progression agreement at the same time.

The things that disappoints me is why didnt the FAAA/Qantas factor in progression and timing when the MAMs were made permanent and possible take more from each airline as a show of good faith and considering the chances of progression happening for at least another year are slim to none. They knew they would have to take progression and they even acknowledged that to the FAAA. It can be delayed for operational reasons but when they start putting through casual ground schools I dont think they have an operational problem. Unless of course a senior executive bonus is now regarded as an operational problem.

3. We dont start at the bottom in terms of base pay but close to it. All true about the staff travel and B Scale bands and I doubt QF would care about our senority and I agree the training costs are nothing, look at the $$ they would have spent in the last year on casual training.

Like you I dont get it.

EAAFA

4th Sep 2005, 02:55

QFRegional, why all the bitterness over Southern, MAM and Jetstar? This kind of "us against them" attitude just plays into the hands of management because it diverts attention away from focusing our efforts on fighting for better working conditions.

Had you been a Southern flight attendant and Qantas offered you a position in short haul, would you have turned it down in favour of someone more senior than yourself at Eastern or Sunstate? I doubt it. It happened 3 years ago: GET OVER IT!

BombardierBrat

6th Sep 2005, 04:36

Hey EAA folks....any goss on when/if there will be another ground school soon??? :confused:

I Just Want To Fly

14th Sep 2005, 21:54

They're holding another recruitment day next Wednesday.

But after reading all this do I bother???

I make $65K a year, and am of course willing to take a massive pay cut because it is my dream to become CC.... but with all this negativity about EAA I am not so sure this is where I should start my career....

Maybe I wait for that once in a decade chance at L/H external recruitment. Last time was in 2000 if I'm not mistaken... Surely some of those grannies in L/H are due to retire soon :) Just kidding!!!! :)

overhere

15th Sep 2005, 02:18

I just want to fly -

Every airline staff member is somewhat bitter towards their employee - morale at Qantas Long & SHort Haul is low, DJ morale is low, JQ morale is low... it is just the nature of the industry that the grass is always greener on the other side and people feel that their company isn't giving them "enough".

From what I've seen,morale at eastern is somewhat better then other airlines in the country.

Having said that though, what do you actually want to be a flight attendant for and what sort of flying do you desire? If you want to be long haul flight attendant to "see the world" (and spend weeks a year sick, always be tired and never see your family) then being a regional flight attendant is not going to be terribly rewarding for you after a few months.

Regional flying offers a number of advantages over long and short haul work - overnights are usually not more then 5-6 a month meaning you see a whole lot more of your family then you ever would in LH or SH, the hours are great with a lot of day trips, it is a whole lot easier to manipulate or trip swap your roster, the work is lighter - with a lot less medical situations etc and while the money isn't as good, you don't actually work a whole lot (with the max planned at most regionals approx 32 hrs a week inc rsvs).

I've worked in SH and regional environments and regional airlines do hold a number of advantages - it's all up to what you really want and your lifestyle choice.

WHatever you do though, don't accept a position with any regional and end up complaining about the money and conditions for the next 10 years it takes you to edge your way into a long haul environment - people just that just ruin your day!

overhere

I Just Want To Fly

15th Sep 2005, 15:57

Overhere,

Thank you so much for your reply. I found it very usefull.

I am still young, and L/H is my main goal at this stage. Not really to see the world, I've already seen most of it, it is the idea of meeting people from all different walks of life, working with different people each day.

I sit in an office dealing with the same people everyday, driving to the same place every day, parking my car in the same place everyday. I feel like I am stuck in Ground Hog Day!!!

I know L/H is extremely demanding on the body, but I pretty sure I can handle it. After several years in L/H I can see my self wanting to come back down to earth and just doing S/H or even regional.

Anyway, I am going to go to the interview, just for the experience, but I think I will keep holding out for L/H. I speak French & Japanese, so that should help a little. I am also trying for Emirates.

Thanks once again...

OZcabincrew

15th Sep 2005, 17:05

Overhere,

Morale is only low at certain places, with some airlines, morale changes from place to place and where i'm based the morale is quite good.

I Just Want to Fly,

It's great to see your enthusiasm, but moving back to "just" short haul or regional etc isn't as easy as it sounds. You have to get in in the first place. Also these days with the way say QF are restructuring the flying, short haul isn't really short haul anymore (certain bases anyway), I am short haul and in July i was only in Australia for 9 days for the whole month! Also you can work short haul and work with all different cultures and with people from all walks of life, the whole industry is very diverse, you won't just find it in one division.

Good luck with everything, fingers crossed for you! If you are fluent in Japanese and French then that will definately be a big advantage for you, however on the other hand i've heard of people with no language other than English getting the job over someone that speaks two or three languages, so i guess be aware that you need to sell the whole package and not just one or two things as everything counts!

Good luck again!

Oz

I Just Want To Fly

16th Sep 2005, 02:15

Hi Oz,

I knew s/h were doing international routes but had no idea it was that much...

Are you based in SYD?

EAAFA

21st Sep 2005, 11:25

I hope someone from the Sydney base can answer this query: do the same people constantly get offers to work on their days off? :suspect:

QFRegional

21st Sep 2005, 11:43

Thats a resounding YES and thankfully I am one of those people so if you require any info just ask.

I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off.

I had 4 days off last month and the previous month and worked well over 160 hours each month (wont tell you the actual figure as I will give myself away).

And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied.

easternboy

22nd Sep 2005, 00:49

EAAFA

QFReional is spot on. The same people continue to be called to work days off and crewing call these people first if available as they will accept any duty offered even appalling 8 sector days. These are the same people that are also offered unvailable days and not forced to take their DIL if they work on a day off which pushes them over the 7 day rule.

SydGirl

24th Sep 2005, 07:03

I thought Eastern crew were only permitted to work up to 152 hours per month.

Am I incorrect?

SG
:D

EAAFA

25th Sep 2005, 03:17

Syd Girl, of course you are correct: the monthly rostered limit is 152 hours (90 hours per fortnight).

The reason behind the limit of hours per month (as well as other conditions in the EBA), is to ensure that cabin crew get sufficient rest between duties. The effects of fatigue on crew performance are well documented and should never be underestimated.

Anyone who prides him/herself on taking only 4 days off per month is not a hard worker. They are greedy at best and irresponsible at worst! They compromise the safety of their colleagues and passengers, they deliver inferior service and they undermine our EBA.

I for one wouldn't want to work with an exhausted colleague and I'm sure the passengers wouldn't appreciate it either.

Also, I doubt that someone who hogs all the IPDs would be selfless enough to decline the offer to progress to QF in favour of someone more senior/deserving if they were given the chance.:hmm:

SydGirl

25th Sep 2005, 05:57

EAAFA you are exactly right. The EBA has set a limit on the number of hours worked to protect the employee.. and then in turn the passengers! After all, it is the pax safety that is the main concern here.

I am surprised that the FAAA aren't all over that issue - maybe they aren't aware of it occuring?

It is disappointing that crew feel they have to work excessive overtime and do arduous duties outside their duty limitations just to make a poorly paid job into a reasonably paid job!

SG
:}

EAAFA

25th Sep 2005, 06:29

I'm glad you agree, SG.

I guess the FAAA can't do anything about people who work outside the EBA, especially if they're not union members (as is the case with the Melbourne culprit).

The union should, however, be able to do something about the way crewing staff operate. QFRegional has just admitted to flouting the EBA. That's his/her problem. However, why are crewing staff offering people work when they know they are working more than 6 days in a row or not having enough rest between duties? Whether an f/a agrees to do this or not, I was under the impression that the union has to give a dispensation, and it looks like crewing isn't seeking dispensations.

I'm not a union rep, but if I were, I wouldn't be granting dispensations which could potentially compromise the safety and wellbeing of both the person in question as well as those working with them.

apaddyinuk

25th Sep 2005, 15:31

Going by what I have read on here and my own friends experiences it sounds like Australia is one bloody hard place to get a job in the air!!!

MELBRO

26th Sep 2005, 00:50

Well said EAAFA.

QFRegional

27th Sep 2005, 01:34

I think you will find the EBA states you will not be "rostered to work" more than 152 hours per month. The company nor the crew member are NOT working outside the EBA therefore the FAAA cannot get involved. I along with other crew have raised this issue with the FAAA in the past. If the crew member "elects" to work on a day off that is not considered a rostered duty therefore does not count towards the 152 hours set down in the EBA. At no time can the company force you to work over 152 hours in any 28 day period through normal rostering and the FAAA will fully support any crew member who doesnt come to work once they have reached 152 hour through their roster and reserves.

If the company or the FAAA really cared about the issue of fatigue and rest we wouldnt be rostered the duties we currently are out of Sydney base and be constantly drafted. Sure I am tired but I would never go to work if I felt I couldnt undertake my duties, and as for inferior service, maybe that applies to you but certainly not me.

I dont hog all the IPD's and thats a stupid thing to say how could I when IPD's are being offered on a daily basis. There are not that many crew in Sydney who list for IPD where it is not available to them, tex messages are also sent when all people registered have been exhausted. It sounds to me like sour grapes on your part EAAFA.

You are also wrong about my position on progression, so best to stick with what you know and instead of trying to second guess other crew's position on certain issues.

Once again no-one is working outside the EBA so get your facts straight and the company do abide by duty hour limitations and the 7 day rule. If you work on your 6th day and are rostered a duty for your 7th you are either made unavailable or forced to take your DIL no-one ever works more than 6 days straight. Unlike a few years ago where crew were working 10, 12, 14 days before having a day off and it was never forced.

You should make yourself a little more aware of the EBA and you would know a dispensation is not required, with EBA negotiations just around the corner maybe now is good time.

EAAFA

27th Sep 2005, 12:16

QFRegional, before you reply to someone's posting you should re-read it until you understand it completely.

1. I didn't say that cabin crew are not allowed to work more than 152 hours per month. It is the limit agreed upon in the EBA as the reasonable hours that we are expected to work. It is not an arbitrary number. It takes into account the toll this job takes on us physically and if you are regularly working in excess of this total, you are flouting the guidelines of the EBA.

2. I referred to dispensations in the case of people working more than 6 days in a row (in response to Easternboy's posting).

3. Yes, a part of the reason I raised this issue is sour grapes. Occasionally, I too would like the chance to work on a day off for the extra money, but crewing always call the same people in my base, and others rarely have the chance to take advantage of this perk. Also, if there is a "blacklist" of people who shouldn't be called on days off, then that is a serious matter which should be examined. No one should be discriminated against because they have a life and cannot accept every time crewing offer them work on a day off.

Of course I don't know you, but based on every one of your posts in this forum, I can say that I have a right to form an opinion of your views and statements, just as you claim the right to judge me. The difference is, you judge me about issues of which you know nothing (ie the standard of my service and performance at work), while I judge you by your statements.

You admit to being tired, yet you accept duties on your days off. Like the rest of us you are human, so I can't see how your performance levels can be as high as usual when you are tired. It may benefit you to do some research on fatigue risk management.

Also, my response wasn't aimed at you personally. It was a response to Easternboy's and SydGirl's comments. If it struck a chord within you, then obviously your conscience isn't clear.

Take some time out to smell the roses...:ok:

lfdlfp

27th Sep 2005, 12:57

Just to backtrack a bit:

"And to answer your earlier question EAAFA if I was a Southern f/a in ground school being trained on the dash I would not expect direct entry to Qantas. I would have been more than happy to continue to fly with Eastern which southern was merged with and fly on the dash for which I applied."

why should they have been forced to stay on dashes in favor of more senior eastern crew? Those crew didn't apply to work on a dash 8, they applied to work for Southern: BIG DIFFERENCE!

qfregional, eaafa was nice in telling you to smell the roses. I'd tell you something else, but it would could get me banned from this website! :mad:

SydGirl

28th Sep 2005, 08:50

I'm of the understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) that the company can only contact crew to work on a day off in unforseen circumstances.

If crew are being called to work consistently 3 or 4 days each month then that is not really 'unforseen' is it?

SG
:}

EAAFA

28th Sep 2005, 09:03

Interesting point SydGirl. In the same clause of the EBA it also says that crewing may not contact us on a single day off standing alone. How many times do they contact people on their single days off?

m00ving_on

28th Sep 2005, 10:04

Very defensive, QFRegional.
Here's a question for you. Is accepting an 8 sector day when you have the right to say 'no' smart? and you are calling other people stupid!
When you have worked on 8 of your last days off in the last 2 months, it sounds to me like you ARE hogging ipds. you aren't getting all of them but you are getting more than your fair share, and that my dear is hogging.

QFRegional

29th Sep 2005, 03:49

Gezz I feel like im in the crew room and can never escape you bunch of whinges, thats all you do all day, complain, bitch and moan.

lfdlfp

The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know.

SydGirl

Crewing do as they please and NG has no problem otherwise we wouldnt be getting the volume of IPD's available.

EAAFA

Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so. Maybe you will only accept 2 sectors on days off, call crewing as soon as you wake on your day off and try and score something, call the night before, you have to make yourself known as im sure the other crew within your base that get the work do.

fatigue risk management? Why should I care if management and the company dont, not my problem? If I feel I can perform safely and effectively I will turn up to work.

Are you being called by crewing on single days off now? I just thought you said you werent getting any work on days off. Anyway if you register to work crewing will contact otherwise generally they wont. If they do and you elect to work you are given options such as your DIL or unavailable days.

m00ving_on

Thank-you for noticing, its a tatic im now using having now mastered the craft from Eastern management.

Firstly im not anyone's dear. Secondly sour grapes and not my problem.

Nows where's that movie rewards nomination form I should nominate myself, I will be waiting quite some time for yourself and EAAFA to stop moaning to nominate me.

m00ving_on

29th Sep 2005, 10:23

What a fantastic message QFRegional. It made me laugh and laugh!!!
I think you have picked up more from management than the defensiveness. you also quote the eba when it suits you, but ignore it when it doesn't.
All the time you are spending at altitude is affecting your brain sister girlfriend. (is that better than dear?)

QFRegional

29th Sep 2005, 10:45

m00ving_on Im really starting to warm to you and you have given me idea I think I will apply for PG position now she has resigned. As you can see I already have all the skills to bring as part of the eastern management team. Of course I exclude KM when I talk of management as she is a true legend.

EAAFA

29th Sep 2005, 10:59

QFRegional,

"I accept any duty including 8 sector days just to stay on the good side of crewing as you DO NOT want to be blacklisted when it comes to working on days off."

"Whatever respect I had for you went out the window with your "blacklist" comment. Even if crewing have such a list are they going to tell you and me about it I dont think so."

If you don't remember making these statements, look at your previous posts. I mentioned the 'blacklist' knowing full well that there is no such thing (as a matter of fact, I thought your statement was very naive). It was a rhetorical question.

As for the comment you made about fatigue risk management: you should care because your health and safety are at stake.

I'm not even going to bother to waste my time addressing any of your other comments. I've shown you far more respect than you deserve up until now.:ugh:

QFRegional

29th Sep 2005, 11:08

I was just letting you know how it works with crewing plus having a huge go at you and I apologise. Look I hate the company just as much as the next person.

Lets call a truce I am not going to register or work any of my days off in the next roster and see how I go financially. The EBA is coming up and meetings are being held in Sydney on 15 October.

From information which came from crew who attended the management talk yesterday career progression will never happen as Qantas have a new interpretation of the arrangements. Why am I not surprised by that.

You may not be aware by PG has resigned so we have more new management to look forward to in the near future.

EAAFA

29th Sep 2005, 11:28

A truce sounds fantastic to me. Deal!

No I didn't know that PG has resigned. Is she leaving the company, or is she returning to a role as an f/a?

Trust me, you'll love having more than 4 days off next month.;)

m00ving_on

30th Sep 2005, 00:45

Good luck QFRegional. if you get the posie at least we'll have someone with a sense of humour as the T & S supervisor. sorely needed...
just to clarify, I don't moan about not getting ipds. I love my days off too much to trade them for cash. my reasons are selfish, simply put, it's no picnic working with overworked people. irritible, short tempered, impatient and generally not much fun. I'm not saying you are one of them since I don't know who you are (even though I have my suspicions), so don't take it personally.

lfdlfp

30th Sep 2005, 11:28

qfregional, you said
"The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know."
obviously you have a different approach when it comes to employment. when i looked for a job as a hostie, i looked at the airline i'd be working for not the aircraft type i'd be on. most people i know are the same. the southern recruits you refer to signed a contract of employment with southern. wether they were there for a week or 5 years they were sothern employees so they all deserved the same treatment.
a truce between you and eafa? wow! in the same spirit i apologize for the nasty tone of my message too.

m00ving_on

30th Sep 2005, 12:18

Truces? PG resigning? Things are looking up! Now, if someone could just replace NG with someone competent...

easternboy

10th Oct 2005, 13:48

Oh thats what I love about eastern crew one day at each other throats the next loving up to each other over a coffee and smoke.

The EBA meeting is this saturday the 15th and QFRegional since you are not working IPD's this month I hope to see you there if you have the day off, although I have no idea who you are - yet.

Seriously though it is important that as many crew as possible attend this meeting and get factual information direct from the horses mouth, furthermore we have to show support for both the FAAA and ourselves towards the company. We all know what the pay rise will be 3% of course but what will we have to give up for this and dont think for a minute the company will just give us this lavish pay rise, just look whats happening to our pilots.

Word is we cant mention the scary word "progression" in front the of the FAAA. However after hearing what one of our senior executives had to say on the issue (2nd hand of course from a crew member that attended the meeting) a lot of crew are angry and looking for a straight answers from the FAAA.

Considering the company introduced progression into our last EBA to get it voted up I think it only fair we discuss this issue.

What are other crews thoughts? Or should we just to stick to the facts 3% x 3, give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule and zero increase in salary for operating the 400 just like the 300.

GalleyHag

11th Oct 2005, 14:49

True you must fully support the FAAA and yourselves but discuss any topic you like even if they dont want to talk about it. The FAAA is a members based organisation so it is yours to discuss with officials anyway you like.

If it was me the first thing on the Agenda would be progression. The current agreement states and I quote:

"Subject to permanent recruitment being required in the short haul division of Qantas. Regional Flight Attendants will be eligible to progress having regard to the following"

Progression from Regional Airlines to the Short Haul Division of Qantas will occur twice a year in (6) month cycles

1 July to 31 December
1 January to 30 June

The number of flight attendants able to progress from the individual regional airline in any (6) month cycle is as follows:

10 Eastern
6 Sunstate

So my first question to the FAAA is why were the regionals not taken into Perth on 1 July with the MAM crew. There were only 32 positions available you take off the 16 owed to Eastern and whatever number for Jet* and the balance go to MAM.

Unlike previous agreements there is no minimum requirement to trigger the progression agreement.

Now to be told that other clauses in the agreement such as deferment to the next 6 month period due to operational reasons (with FAAA approval) does not come into effect as NO permanent positions are available is a joke.

The agreement is black and white QF and the FAAA stuffed up and the FAAA are looking after MAM crew without ensuring that Qantas met its arrangements under the agreement for regional crew.

Now to be told progression will only occur when permanent positions become available is nothing short of disgusting. Lets look at the history of when permanent was available in Mar 2003 and now July 2005. Qantas need to find room for these crew if they like it or not or what is the point of the agreement. And in future any permanent employment must first be given to the regionals as per their agreement.

So if I was an eastern f/a I would be saying we are not starting any negotiations until the issue of progression is resolved jut like how the company witheld the increased numbers until your last EBA was resolved. Dont let it get to a point where your EBA is about to be voted on but they withold start dates for progression until it is voted up. Dont think it wont happen as the past will show you it already has.

Sorry for the rant.

blondeontour

14th Oct 2005, 01:02

If the Faaa doesn't want to talk about progression tomorrow them ask them why we pay them $16/fn.As it is a MEMBERS assoc we are entitled to discuss what our greatest concerns are..re qantas changing the interpretation of the prog aggreement.I know we all get paid didly squat but why are so many f/as working their ipd's??? We should all have a week or so where we ALL SAY NO to any xtra flying & see what the coy will do ..I know DRAFT everyone that has just done a 6 or 8 sector day.Good ridance of PG as she got the job "for the girl" from her drinking Buddy that was our previous "boss" -with NIL people skills.

m00ving_on

14th Oct 2005, 01:54

"Word is we cant mention the scary word "progression" in front the of the FAAA." ??? whose word? as galleyhag and blondeontour said, we are the association, so we can raise any issue we want!
blondeontour, it's like you read my mind about PG. in addition to her other problems, the woman has no sense of humour, and I think that someone with that shortcoming has no business working in a customer service role! let's hope she can fit in a medical procedure between jobs so she can have the pole removed from her you know what so her new colleagues don't suffer as much as we did...
:ouch:

easternboy

14th Oct 2005, 06:36

I have heard that Career Progression is VERY much now on the Agenda for discussion tomorrow regardless if our reps like it or not and the FAAA what to discuss this issue with crew.

Sadly though the future of Regional Progression is very grim and there is not a dam thing we can do about it.

blondeontour

14th Oct 2005, 10:35

Well tomorrow is the big day..Why is the faaa letting ng get away with RE interpreting our eba(that has expired) to the way SHE sees fit & undermines our workplace roles as f/as?I know pilots are at the point of Dobbing in f/as that work well beyond the hours (even those ones that should be saying NO to crewing on days off,this then shows the company that it needs more crew)to casa,as well as fatigue of f/as..how do they know that the f/a is capable of doing thier primary role when they are knackered???Even part timers are not immune to ng interpretations re hours worked in the 28 days even if leave has been taken they still have to work the max hrs in the roster..the amount of drafting,300 flying as a solo f/a,being pressured to work on days off,being to scared to answer the phone at home or mobile with private number..this is not a happy place to be workwise but the joy of flying makes up for a tiny bit of it.Some of the things that is happening would never happen at s/h, l/h as they would down tools.Get the faaa working FOR US & not the company (ng) that is what our subs are paid for..I'm sure they would miss a bit of money on their bottom line if members resigned.