Russian Style AH

[bonzaman]

I recently had the pleasure of a ride in the back seat of a Yak 9. The front cockpit instruments had all been changed to comply with western standards. However the rear cockpit retained the original Russian layout. The most interesting differance, to me anyway, apart from the altimeter measured in meters, was the AH. The colour scheme was the reverse of western models. In other words the sky was a dark colour and the ground in a lighter colour. I cannot remember the actual colour scheme.
Can anyone offer me an explanation for this?
I hope that this is the right forum for this question.

[SATCO Biggin]

I fly a stock Yak 52 with mostly Russian equipment (except for a western altimeter in the front). After many hours of staring at the AH I still cannot work out how you are supposed to use it.

Not only is the blue half at the bottom and the black half at the top, but when you push the nose down the little aeroplane 'appears to move upwards', and vice versa. The little aeroplane, of course, doesn't move at all its the ball shaped background that moves.

Being Russian the device is virtually indestructible, fully aerobatic and must be simple in its design and use........but how?

I avoid IMC like the plague. :eek:

[bonzaman]

Hi SATCO, I did a search on Google but that did not come up with an explanation. I assume the Russians had a good reason for their design.
Leaving asside the issue of the AH, I found the Yak9 a great aircraft to fly.
I note your association with Biggin which, for me , brings back very happy memories. In the mid 80's I flew my Beech Bonanza from Melbourne, Australia to the UK and landed at Biggin Hill. The Bonanza is no longer part of my life I now potter around in a Chipmunk.

[Worf]

Bonzaman & Satco

The difference between Russian and western AI is that in the Russian one, the aircraft symbol moves, while the face of the instrument is stationary with respect to the aircraft.

In Western AIs the aircraft symbol is stationary with respect to the aircraft and the face assembly moves to align with the horizon.

What that means is that in Russian AIs the aircraft is above or below the perceived horizon, not the horizon above or below the nose of the aircraft - as you would see in visual flight.

The motion of the aircraft appears opposite to intuition in Russian AIs. But the AI construction is much simpler - and thats why the Russian AIs dont topple in aerobatics - the weight of the little aircraft symbol is easier to move around compared to the entire gyro assembly I guess!

The way I would read it would - black or brown - you're heading for the ground. Blue heading for the sky!

Indian Air Force pilots have been transitioning from one system to the other without significant problems, but there was a crash of an acquaintance of mine, who had transitioned from Jaguars to Mig-29s and was fatally disoriented. This was caused it was believed by some difficulty in adjusting and his inexperience on Russian types and (ironically) too much experience on Western aircraft. It was unusual for someone of his experience to transition from Western stream to Russian stream aircraft.

Worf

[bonzaman]

Worf, thank you for that explanation, I now understand the thinking behind the Russian design. I prefer the western type display, or is that because it is the one I am used to?

[dingo084]

Here we have the obvious difference between a "ground" pointer and a "sky" pointer. I seem to recall the FD on a TU-154 was the same.

Worf your acquantance experienced a truely confusing scenario. I tried training some ex 154 drivers in a Western style EFIS Sim and boy, did we have some fun
:ooh: :uhoh: :ugh: :\ :confused: :confused:

ding

[cringe]

I read somewhere about a preference study in which the majority of experienced pilots favoured the AH type they were familiar with, but that more newcomers found the Russian outside-in (moving airplane symbol) approach more intuitive.

Afer the 2000 crash of a Crossair's Saab 340, the captain's early experience on Russian aircraft was considered. Resorting to an old reaction pattern under stress, when interpreting the attitude display, possibly contributed to the accident.

[John Farley]

When you fly visually in close line astern on your leader and he manoeuvres in pitch and roll you see him positioned against the outside world in a very instinctive and unambiguous way. You are never in any doubt what he is doing. You may not like what he is doing but that is a different issue.

When you fly a Russian artificial horizon the little aeroplane symbol is not YOU but your leader and the glass of the instrument face is your windscreen. If you don’t like what your leader is doing use your controls instinctively to make ‘him’ fly straight and level or whatever you would like him to do.

In the Russian A/H the aeroplane symbol is free to roll (but NOT pitch) with respect to the instrument panel while the world behind it is free to pitch with respect to the instrument panel (but NOT roll) This makes it very easy to design an instrument that does not topple.

Before the days of Master Reference Gyros and the like (some 50 plus years ago) the Russians tried both ‘our’ and ‘their’ approach to attitude displays. They preferred their idea because it did not topple. I can only agree with them.

I have only flown a Russian A/H once. There was cloud from 300 ft to 18000ft. I did some quite harsh manoeuvring in the cloud as well as later between layers but because I had sat in the bath the night before and decided the display had to be like flying line astern and controlling my leader remotely (I had wanted to do that so many times in the past…) I found in flight that I had not the slightest problem getting my head round what to do.

But like so many aspects of instrument flying you must get your head sorted before you start. It is NO use getting airborne and hoping inspiration will sort you out.

More recently I decided to teach myself to fly an expensive model aeroplane by R/C. The ailerons reverse when it flies towards you. All my years of ordinary flying experience were then a problem. I won’t bore you with the solution I came up with because this tread is about real aeroplanes but it just requires a PLAN – as does flying a Russian A/H if you have flown the other sort for 40 years.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

John - I bet you turned your back to the model when it was flying towards you, and watched it over your shoulder. That's what I did, anyway. :O

I used to fly a Yak52 with Russian horizons, but I don't think I ever looked at the AH much, if at all. IIRC these instruments were driven by AC electricity, produced from the aircraft's DC supply by a motor/alternator set behind the seat. It worked, but it must have been very heavy.

Having been brought up on the western propaganda that all Russian kit is rather inferior rubbish, I was very pleased to be disabused of that notion by my aquaintance with the Yak. It did seem strange at first after the very British Chipmunk, but I soon found that the Yak was not 'rough' or 'agricultural' - it was just 'different', and in many ways far superior to the Chippy. I particularly liked the eggshell-blue instrument panels instaed of the matt black of western cockpits - so much brighter! And that vertical black line up the middle of the panel that makes centreing the ailerons much easier. The Russian approach to engineering and aeroplanes betrays a very different mindset - hugely practical and pragmatic in approach (their bang seats, the best in the world, used clockwork timers, for instance). Once you get your head around that, the whole experience of flying the machine become so much more enjoyable.

At least that was my experience.

SSD

[Onan the Clumsy]

I bet you turned your back to the model when it was flying towards you, and watched it over your shoulder. That's what I did, anyway. Just "turn to the low wing" and you'll be ok.

[John Farley]

Nope, 'cos after I bust my neck it won't turn

JF

[tinpis]

How many pilots Fly Mode 1? (R/C)
an unattural act if yer ask me.

[henry crun]

An unnatural act, how dare you make such a suggestion sir ?

Indeed, there is a significant body of opinion who believe that it is you lot who fly mode 2 that are the unnatural ones. :p