Is somebody recognising Cardiff Potential?

[1st Timer]

Cardiff always seems a strange airfield to look at.

Once one of the busier airifields in the west it has been passed by Bristol and even Exeter were catching at some point.

However, the first flight from zoom departed the welsh capital yesterday with good news. A second route for summer 2006.

I hear people shout "so what, its only one more flight" however, with two transatlantic flights from zoom and upto 3 flights a week with thomsonfly.

There are other rumours which have floated around for years, maybe these rumours can come to fruition (sp) as people start to recognise some Potential and subsequent growth.

Good luck to CWL.

[DanielP]

Saw the Zoom flight go.....didn't realise it was the first.

FYI.....Rhoose / Cardiff International Airport railway station is nearly complete: it is a 10-15min shuttle bus trip from the airport. Unfortunately, I beleive the only train is going to be an hourly service from the valleys using rather miserable trains (I might be wrong though!): this will involve any potential passengers changing at Cardiff.....no plans for direct trains from London. I have taken some photos of the station (I'm a local ;-) ), but there is nowhere to upload here......put it this way, the station is VERY basic (but quite smart).....makes the station at PIK look lavish!

So, in theory, this gives CWL an advantage, but there appears to be precious little imagination in realising the potential of the rail link, which is a terrible pity: I can't imagine Continental being particularly impressed by it, for instance. Having said that, Bristol only has an (admittedly comfortable) coach service to drift around the city's interminable one way systems!

I'd be interested to see what those "in the know" think about the new link, etc!

Daniel

http://www.pbase.com/nagpig/image/42922975

http://www.pbase.com/nagpig/image/42922987

Hope these pics work!

[WindSheer]

Working at Both Cardiff and Bristol, I can give a realistic opinion on both.

Bristol is booming due to the lack of routes from CWL. I would say that 30-40% of BRS passengers (particularly in winter), are welsh!
We all know how patriotic the welsh are, you give them the flights from Cardiff and they will fly from Cardiff EVERY TIME.

Thomson are starting to realise whats available - nice to see.
MYT are obviously doing whatever's best financially at the moment.
It a shame FC are now behind on the uptake, particularly with their upcoming longhaul expansion.
I dont think BMI have many future plans for the base, they seem to be declining rather than expanding.

[MerchantVenturer]

Don't want to turn this into another thread about BRS but official figures don't support the view that BRS is booming because of a lack of services from CWL.

In the BRS Statment of Intent document re the Government White Paper the latest figures they have (admittedly for the year 2003) show only 10% of passengers as coming from Wales. A huge 45% came from the former county of Avon (effectively Greater Bristol plus Bath and Weston). Another 23% came from Devon and historic Somerset.

Even with EXT now flyng several low cost routes also operated out of BRS the latter's pax figures on these routes have not suffered at all, in fact on most they have increased since EXT began their services (CAA stats).

All this is a roundabout way of saying that BRS appears to have a largely discrete catchment that does not rely significantly on taking pax from either CWL or EXT.

CWL's obvious advantage over BRS is its longer runway and it is no surprise that tour operators/airlines are beginning to announce new long-haul routes from there. I shall look very closely at using the new Zoom Vancouver service (from next year) because I usually travel there via Amsterdam from BRS.

Another advantage CWL has is its position as the airport for the Welsh capital. The Assembly has made no secret of its desire to have an airport worthy of the Principality and is spending public money to achieve this, including the provision of a RDF. Whether the sum of £19 million (not from the RDF of course) to re-open the Vale of Glamorgan Railway line partly to achieve a rail connection for CWL is a wise use of public money is probably in the hands of the jury at present. Unless regular rail connections from further afield are routed direct to the CWL station there has to be considerable doubt that it isn't.

Until it is BRS will still have as good a rail connection via the 53-seater coach connection to the main rail and bus stations that runs every twenty minutes. I have been at BRS twice in recent weeks in mid afternoon to see it leave full with many pax waiting for the next one.

Incidentally, I wrote to the BRS management last year suggesting they consider Parson Street station as an airport station. This is on the southern outskirts of the city on the main line to the west and only a ten-minute bus journey to the airport along the A 38. The reply was that the cost (there is no Assembly in the south west to assist with the finance) and the small likelihood of the rail companies stopping main line trains there regularly made the suggestion untenable.

It will be interesting to see if the Welsh authorities have more luck in stopping main line trains regularly at the CWL station, or even in providing a regular rail shuttle from Cardiff Central Station but the latter would amost certainly require considerable public subsidy. If they do manage either then CWL will indeed have a valuable asset on its doorstep.

As it is, the new long-haul routes announced recently can only increase the profile of the airport.

[taffman]

For CWL to take off in any shape or form you need the likes of an Easy jet to come along and start on the Amsterdam, Paris, Rome, and popular routes. KLM services out of CWL are overpriced for the average leisure traveller. It is the low cost companies, which are pushing up the passenger numbers at BRS.

I travel down to the big flying bus company’s factory in TLS with Flybe and I live in deepest Welsh Wales. To go TLS, AMS, CWL is both expensive and long compared to the nice service run by Flybe. Its direct routes like this and others that builds up the airport.

As for the new rail link, all of the long distance trains don’t go down this route. They go along the much shorter, faster route from Bridgend to Cardiff, not Bridgend, Barry, Cardiff that is mainly a freight line and slower.

Taffman

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

CWL has been the death of many airlines and nobody has ever prospered there for long. Its a shame but true. There just isn't the GDP in South Wales to make it work.

The use of taxpayers money to facilitate what the oh-so-wise Assembly Members feel is 'appropriate' to their 'capital' city (pop only 42% of that of Leeds) is lamentable.

Nevertheless as all airports in the UK are booming CWL will doubtless continue to enjoy growth. Perhaps a bit of regional specialisation in Long Haul is the way forward?

Cheers

WWW

[WindSheer]

Merchant
***Government White Paper the latest figures........****

You don't really believe half the crap written in these type of reports do you??
I work frequently at BRS - believe me the number of welsh there is huge, its real and it is happening!!! Government 'statistics' are not real!!

Plus you mention that hopefully the welsh government will support the rail link etc.....They definately will! The welsh assembly have a very good connection with the airport, due to the millenium stadium, and of course - tourism. The assembly will be fighting for the rail link to be in place asap.

Taffman
***As for the new rail link, all of the long distance trains don’t go down this route. They go along the much shorter, faster route from Bridgend to Cardiff, not Bridgend, Barry, Cardiff that is mainly a freight line and slower.***
How many airports have a direct long distance rail link? Could I get on a train at Cardiff and go straight to BHX, or LHR?? No! It always requires a change somewhere.
Cardiff rail station is well fed by the whole of South England, including the midlands. Meaning its a simple change onto the airport train upon reaching central. Can the same be said for Bristol? No, its an absolute nightmare of a place to get to.

I agree with the comments on KLM etc. CWL is too expensive - BMI aren't that cheap unless you land an early booking.

[taffman]

Cardiff airport has never been a user-friendly place since it moved across the runway in to the bunker of a terminal, which it now occupies. I have been in better-designed terminal in the middle of Africa than Cardiff. It needs to be pulled down and rebuilt having been designed by some one with an ounce of common sense.

The departures area once you leave the public area is dismal, almost totally devoid of natural daylight, poor access to toilets, which the last time I was there was along corridors and through numerous doors which are more like an dismal office block than an airport. Compared to Bristol’s light, open area, which the traveller can see outside, it is like being in a bunker.

As for arrivals, only the most ably bodied person can survive the tortuous trip from the apron to the baggage area, up and down countless number of steps and along passageways only just wide enough for one person. If you are unfortunate to get caught behind some older person who is struggling with all the steps, then you stand little chance of getting through quickly.

As for the car parks, it is only a few years ago some one put a ramp into the sunken area, which are the car parks to allow baggage trolleys down to peoples cars.

It is not only low fares, which attract passengers to an airport; it is also the image and user friendliness of the place, which means a lot. Look on the web and see passenger reviews about airports and terminal. They rate them and exchanges views on them and the bad ones are avoided by the masses.

Bristol is far more users friendly but it does have its faults as well. Long security queues at times are one of them, but generally it is better and will I think with the development be a much better place.

As for the Welsh choosing Bristol over Cardiff, look at the distance between them, just over sixty miles, but from the higher population areas, the Valley’s for instance the distance to Bristol airport compares well to that of Cardiff airport. From Swansea and West Wales, the extra thirty miles is nothing when most of it is on motorway and knowing you will get a better airport and cheaper flights.

The rail link is a good idea, but have you seen the station, nothing more than a bus stop. Rhoose is a wild and wet area with weather coming off the Bristol Channel during the winter months, in fact the summer months can be the same, so people using the station are in for a bit of a rough time waiting for their train to Cardiff or Bridgend to change trains and go onto their final destination. Again image and friendliness will go towards attracting people, or not as the case may be. How many trains in a day will use the new station and will they be timed to meet with aircraft arrivals and departures, I don’t think so. The Vale of Glamorgan line was reopened to feed Cardiff from the likes of Llantwit Major, St. Athens and Rhoose villages, not the airport. The airport just happens to be at Rhoose, which is now a sizable village along with Llantwit.

It is a shame that a new combined airport at Margam on the old steel works site could not have been developed and Cardiff and Bristol transferred there. A good high-speed rail link to all parts of the country is already in place along with the M4 and M5 only being a stone through away.

Cardiff needs a major rework along with low cost carriers before it will become the airport the Welsh Assembly thinks it should be. All us who exist in the real work know that MP’s and Assembly members don’t, this is the problem.

Taffman

[DanielP]

re: timetable for rail link....

Trains to Cardiff go at 6.28a.m and then around 15mins (ish) past the hour every hour until 23:23.

From Cardiff 05:50 than around ten mins to the hour until 22:47.

(Mondays to Sat)

Sun, every two hours from 10:08 to 22:08 (from Rhoose) and I can't find the times the other way at the mo!

re: design of CWL.....yes, it doesn't seem to use the space well either airside or in the passenger areas.

re: Rhoose....yup! Mostly windy and wild, but also very good views of the Bristol Channel from the station whilst you freeze to death!

I live close to the station in Rhoose Point.....I love the weather myself, but appreciate it's not the place to hang around with your lugage.

Daniel

[irishair2001]

Seems as if CWL was built and run by Aer Rianta,it certainly has their trade mark,short sighted solutions to problems and developement,temporary structures and quick fixes,that become permanent, "Sure who's gonna notice",the traveling public are only a nusance.

[WATABENCH]

Dont know what you lot are moaning about, CWL cant be run that badly, you may think you have an airport run by a loada muppets but they still managed to land a good couple of long haul projects that show great potential for growth, If I was managment at CWL I'd be pretty chuffed with recent times, Zoom expansion, BY-long haul, rail link(may not be mainline, but still helps with access), new road links comeing(from what i've heard) and big rumours of a base for FR, I get the impression things are getting better over the bridge, I work over there occasionally and find the drive from BRS pretty simple, also don't find the airport at all difficult to navigate and all peeps really friendly (except security - sorry!), also they have the most gorgeous dispatcher working for Aviance which definatly makes my 70 mile journey worth it!!:E
I work in BRS and love where i work and how user friendly and bright the terminal is, and also how bustling it is nowadays, its just difficult to get to especially from the east(Bath area), look at the ease of BHX/LGW even EXT and compare to BRS, you guys are no worse off for access than BRS, so I cant see that airport access is a worthy argument for how busy CWL is or isn't, as BRS manages to rake in 5 million pax and has about as much access as a Visa card!!

[excel222]

Watabench good comments i live in wales but work at BRS
"totally love the place" but its a sod to get too! perhaps one day we will have a road linking the airport from the m5. As for CWL its about time something good came there way! good luck with your expansion

[Fernando_Covas]

I have used Cardiff a few times to fly air transat, klm and ryanair and the airport looked so out of date to me. The departue jetway used on my air transat looked like it was made in the 1950's. On the way back with all the airlines I have flown with, the amount of steps and the design is bad. You go up steps to get to the arrivals walkway, then up steps to passport control and then down steps to the bag area. It needs to have a new design of building before trying to get other routes.

[Alloy]

Monarch has it's A330's through CWL this summer.

[taffman]

Gosh! But does it really help the passenger numbers. The low cost, lets have a weekend away bunch of travellers who bump up the through put of the likes of BRS and STN to name a few. Put me right but Monarch are in the holiday charter business and while they put a big number of bums on seats they tend to be the same ones year in year out. The growth is in the low cost sector. Possibly the new lot going to Canada would have chosen BRS if there was not the building work going on and had a better airport to do it from but wanted to start this year. Next year when things are complete in BRS then they may move over the bridge, will have to see. Perhaps BRS success will be its downfall and CWL will benefit, who knows.

Taffman

[aeroconejo]

There have been services from CWL to Toronto for well over 20 years. There is strong local demand and the runway is long enough. Zoom will not consider BRS as the runway is simply too short.

Zoom are also going to operate CWL to Vancouver from next year.

With regard to the low cost market Thonsonfly are to expand at CWL from next year and there have been rumours of Ryanair opening a base at CWL. Air Wales will also have their first A319 by next summer, but no announcement has been made as to where it will fly (or the other 3 which are to follow over the course of the following 15 months).

This expansion will hopefully justify the building of the new terminal. I have seen the plans and it is very impressive indeed with 14 stands served by airbridges and a further 20+ stands.

The existing terminal has served well over the last 30 years or so, but is now in need of replacement as it is bursting at the seams on a busy day and as has been said previously is not too 'user friendly' with far too many stairs.

The plans for the new terminal also show a rail link direct to the terminal, so presumably a spur will be built from the existing line. This coupled with improved road access should give CWL a welcome boost.

aero :ok:

[WOWBOY]

Air Wales and the A319???????????

[flower]

Wowboy ,
Aeroconejo should be in the know if anyone is.
Air Wales started off with one D228 and now have 5 ATR 42s and from my exalted position in the tower I can see just how many people pack inside them. The next step would be jets and i wish them good Luck.

We have been advised that there will be no specific growth this year but that we can expect a great deal more next year, rumours abound,if even one comes to fruition then it will be good news for us.

As Aeroconejo said their are plans already drafted for a new terminal and they are great, they are however, we are told, linked to Pax growth through the airport. To me the new terminal would increase the growth but it is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.
New Hotels are going up near the airport, the new transport link will be in place really soon with the Red Arrows doing us a lovely display to celebrate its opening. Zoom opening up Vancouver routes.
We are not an airport to be written off by any means and there is absolutely no reason for both Bristol and Cardiff to thrive side by side.

[WOWBOY]

Is there any way that i can view the new terminal plans?

When are the A319's expected to come?

[bycrewlgw]

And is there any information to back up the rumour that 6G is getting an A319 ?

[aeroconejo]

the order will be officially announced at the Paris Air Show next month. First crews off to TLS for training next February.

4 x A319 plus 2 options. First one in service by June 2006, others following at 4 monthly intervals.

aero :cool:

[Fernando_Covas]

And is there any information to back up the rumour that 6G is getting an A319 ?

What they say? Oh yes.

http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/2newhours/images/flying_p.gif

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Aero, could you please introduce yourself to me next time youre in the 6G crew room?

[flower]

Actually the Livery on the Aircraft is a lot better than that :p

Work has gone on this last winter on resurfacing Cardiff's runway, this coming winter the plans we are told are to increase stand and apron space for the expected increase in aircraft based at Cardiff from next year, the comment regarding air bridges, well yes it would be nice to have brand spanking new airbridges but at least we have them, not all regionals do.

WowBoy , the plans for Cardiff's new terminal can be found in the document regarding regional transport in Wales. I don't know the official name but it is in the public domain.

[speedbird_heavy]

So if Air Wales have to rely on another airline to fill their ATR's, how are they going to fill a 319 on their own?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

speedbird, at the end of the day this is an unsolicited forum comprised of unsolicited remarks.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

maybe speedbird knows what the baby/6g agreement entails. I for one havent got a clue.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

strange, i only see one :E

[aeroconejo]

you'll never get anything other than negative comments from speedbird_heavy.....he's one of the clowns that took 'early retirement' from circusair last year when 6G wisely changed to Aviance.

Sour grapes again

aero:ooh:

[No_Speed_Restriction]

I can see this turning into the Pprune version of celebrity death match.




Tickets anyone?:E

[CWL_Chris]

Aero,

Judging from what you have said, do you fly for Air Wales out of CWL?

Is this really true about the A319 and also what are the routes planned for the new aircraft?

Regards,
Chris

[No_Speed_Restriction]

chris, given that I do fly for 6g, this appears to be utter unsolicited :mad: or maybe its info that is being witheld from us crew. if it is option (b) then I am very disappointed by the person who has posted this statement as I/we would of preferred to have heard this either by memo or by some other approved means.

[DanielP]

It would be nice if they did get A319s, wouldn't it?.....6G seem to have turned into a very smart little airline. I'll beleive the buses when I see them though.
I've noticed a Lufthansa A319 has been redeployed to Germanwings......maybe there is some kind of Lufthansa via BMI baby via Air Wales thing in the pipeline? Total longshot guess from an amateur, I know ;) Surely it would be better for them to strike a deal with Embraer or go for an A318 to maintain their competitive advantage, anyway?

P.S. they seem to be putting in decent lifts at CWL departures at the moment.

Daniel

[taffman]

Hi Daniel,

Looks like things are on the up at Cardiff then. :cool:

Of course there is always the down side of this.

Taffman:(

[DanielP]

What's that then?:confused:

P.S....saw the Mon A330 today! Very smart, but would be nicer in their new livery.

[GrahamK]

Air Wales flying about with 3/4 empty A319s?

[alterego]

Air Wales have had problems with non paymant of bills in the recent past. They couldn't get fuel at CWL for a couple of days then one aircraft was blocked in as they owed money elsewhere (I believe it was euronav).

Both of these were sorted but now we have some story that they are going to bite the hand that feeds them (Baby) and get A319s! Cause they couldn't just do the routes theydo now.

They have been one aircraft short whilst one was away on check. They had to cancel flights and pay Baby massive penalties for delaying its flights whilst they were 1 cab down, doesn't sound like they are in a position to expand to me.

[Stone Cold]

I used to work for Air Wales and was there for sometime. Great company with lots of potential, I have heard talk for years on 737's and A319's it was actually the A318 that was considered.

Air Wales has turned itself around since I started there over 3 years ago pax numbers are good not good enough though for a jet just yet, so no Air Wales will not be having jets Boeing or Airbuses by this time next year and no crews that I know of are booked to go to TLS and I should know having only just left the company and I was quite senior....However the company is moving slowly in that direction they have recently opened a very smart Air Wales travel agent selling flights with Air Wales as well as package holidays abroad and have also signed up with the Travel House travel agents which is wales largest travel agent.

So give it another 2 or 3 years and providing all the paper work and everything is done and approved by the CAA then I could see Air Wales having a charter airline doing package holidays for Travel House as well as Air Wales travel down to Spain with a 737 or A319 and I for one will be coming back.

Roy Thomas is very passionate about his airline and over the last 5 years has proved everybody wrong who said that this rubbish small welsh airline will never last longer than 6 months, it makes a refreshing change to read on Pprune these days people now saying what a smart little airline it is and it's all be done by hard work from the first class staff of Air Wales.

[aeroconejo]

thank you ...Stone Cold :ok: