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Darth Nigel
1st May 2005, 02:57
PLYMOUTH, Mass. -- A father was arrested and charged with assault after he used a belt to spank his 12-year-old son on the buttocks three times because he forgot his homework.

Charles Enloe, 42, was charged with assault with a deadly weapon after his arrest on Wednesday.

From here (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/04/30/father_charged_after_spanking_son_with_belt/)

"assault with a deadly weapon" because he used his belt?? **** me, on that basis, my high school had weapons of mass destruction.

Now I'm not arguing that we need to get back to the days of "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash" (the fun of which depends for the most part on whether you are giving or receiving :E ), and I'm certainly not promoting child abuse, but this is just ridiculuous.

In the same on-line edition of the Boston Globe, we have a story about the local police force putting a 7-year-old in handcuffs because the child was musbehaving in school.

Words have seriously failed me at this point; I shall now go splutter incoherently in the corner for a while.

Parents, ppruners, your thoughts?

Blacksheep
1st May 2005, 04:19
Having been on the receiving end of some of those weapons of mass destruction, I'm not in favour of using any instrument of correction on a child. Nor on adults fro that matter. It simply didn't work on me, it merely brought resentment and increased resistance.

Not that I'm against the occasional mild slap that doesn't produce injury. Generally I found that removal of a favourite treat is more effective - sending them off to the spare room during Sesame Street for example. Confiscation of CDs, guitar or whatever works quite well with pre-teens. By the time they're sixteen they're virtually adults and you need reason, not violence.

Konkordski
1st May 2005, 07:59
Seems to me that the generation that grew up under the threat of the cane and the birch is the same generation which now despairs at the behaviour of today's younger set.

Which says to me that corporal punishment and a tough regime DOES teach you something about being a civilised human being after all.

Paterbrat
1st May 2005, 15:39
Did get coporal punishment both at home and school. In that on all occasions it was quite clear to me just why it had been employed the net result was it worked and I was not resentful at all. Strange that ???


One effect however has been that I now look around in total dismay at what I feel to be atotal breakdown in common sense, child rearing, school discipline and the seemingly uncontrollable outbreak of ever increasing yobbish behaviour around us.
Could it possibly be... no that would be a leap of common sense understanding and intuition far too far! Besides it none of them would have been at all PC.

Simply not good enough, it must have been the abuse I suffered as a child that has so warped and twisted my thinking.
I should hand myself in for pysiatric evaluation before I harm someone with my radical and extreme ideas.:sad: :oh: :{ :ugh: :* :hmm: :zzz:

Darth Nigel
1st May 2005, 18:32
I think my amazement was that the man was done for assault with a deadly weapon, rather than debating corporal punishment.

Don't often think of a belt a a deadly weapon, and there was lots of other stuff he could have been done for if in fact it rose to the level of child abuse.

Not quite sure where I sit on the spare the rod, spoil the child/luvvie scale. Certainly, belting one's sprog for the slightest offence is just plain wrong, and shows that the parent may have problems.

But this one almost sounds reasonable up until step d:
(a) "Don't forget your homework or I shall smack you one"
(b) "ooer, I forgot me homework"
(c) SMACK
(d) phonecall to local constabulary followed by arrest ?

er82
1st May 2005, 19:58
>>belting one's sprog for the slightest offence is just plain wrong, and shows that the parent may have problems. <<

Surely depends on the offence. Might not seem too bad to the outsider, but the parent could have told the child not to do it before then.

I had a good belting as a child. Got given a warning, then a look, warning again, and then my Dad told me to get upstairs and gave me a good smacking. Hurt like hell, I cried for ages, but taught me a lesson. I knew from then on that if I got the 'look' and continued to be a pain in the butt I'd get the same punishment. Funnily enough I never got another belting after the first.
Only found out a few years ago that after he'd smakced me, he went downstairs and cried. Couldn't believe he'd done that to his little princess(!), but I'm glad he did.

As far as I'm concerned parents should be allowed to smack their children. Bring a child into this world, you should be allowed to teach it/them respect/manners whatever, without having do-gooders telling you you can't smack because it will mentally affect the child. Bollox!

Bring back a good smack, the cane (on the knuckles - ouch!!), and national service and you'll soon have all the young pains-in-the-butt respecting others and behaving!

Whirlygig
1st May 2005, 20:14
er82,

Same here! I was only ever smacked once, aged 4, and my parents didn't need to do it again.

And I deserved it. Big time!

However, back to the point. Belts can be used to strangle people and prisoners on suicide watch have their belt removed - so it must be a deadly weapon. Mind you, to that so are most things.

Cheers

Whirlygig

Blacksheep
2nd May 2005, 00:57
I would define a Deadly Weapon as one that could cause death or serious injury. Striking the boy with a belt is the plain old fashioned crime of Battery.

When I was about eight years old, Miss Powell sent me on an errand to the headmaster, Mr. Corner. I knocked on his door and received the usual response "Come!". As I entered his study he rose from his desk, took his strap down from the wall and without giving me any chance to say why I was there, proceeded to give me a sound thrashing. After six of his best ( and they were very,very good, I assure you) he threw me back out into the lobby. I became deeply suspicious of all authority from that day on. I still am, and nothing I've seen in my lifetime has given me any reason to believe I was wrong.

Beating kids is self defeating. :(

Jerricho
2nd May 2005, 01:07
Ah, corpral punnishment at school. I can fully understand your feelings Blackie.

We used to have a teacher who would make you strap yourself :rolleyes: If he didn't think you did it hard enough, he would make you do it again. Thinking about it now, if I ever me him again I would love to point out to him just how bloody stupid the whole concept was.

Davaar
2nd May 2005, 01:27
Around 1910-1913 my late father had a teacher who would offer the urchins a choice between the belt and a round with the gloves. One kid chose the round with the gloves, and came off second best. Next day, a large man arrived at the school looking for the man who wanted a round with the gloves. Teacher came off second best. I can never understand the brutality, unless they really were perverts, of some teachers. Who would want to hit a 12-year old across the hand with a heavy leather belt? There may be times when corporal punishment is appropriate, but not often. I do recall that fellow in Singapore who got four of the cane for vandalising the BMW. Have not heard of him since.

BombayDuck
2nd May 2005, 05:06
Mom never used anything more than her hand on our (siblings') backs. And that too more than once per misdemeanour (I think I spelled that right....) 'twas enough, though...

Dad on the other hand till date has never raised either his voice or his hand on us. He would tell us to do whatever was to be done, and if not, would repeat the instruction twice. If STILL not done, he would say, "I'm going to count to three. ONE....."

It will be 32 years since the birth of my eldest sis in July. In 32 years not once - among five (three of us and two of the neighbour's kids) - has he reached THREE.

Solid Rust Twotter
2nd May 2005, 07:20
Blacksheep

Taking a caning without adequate reason would instil a sense of injustice and suspicion in anyone unfortunate enough to recieve it. If you'd deserved punishment, I imagine your outlook may have been somewhat different. Doesn't make the headmaster responsible for the deed any less a box.:mad:

I have a number of friends and family who do things in different ways and those children who are the best behaved, doing well at school and most content are the ones from families where the bounds are strictly demarcated and enforced. The problem children all have fluffy huggy discussions about their behaviour with parents they can easily manipulate, and these discussions are repeated ad nauseum. :rolleyes:

Onan the Clumsy
2nd May 2005, 14:20
Blacksheep The way I read your post, Miss Powell sent you to the beak who at the time was waiting for a miscreant to appear. You got there a shade too soon, got the whacking and the miscreant got the dignatries list for the school sports day.

Still you deserved a sound thrashing, if for no reason other than you failed to get said list back to Miss Powell :}

Jerricho
2nd May 2005, 14:24
I have heard stories about a certain teacher who used to strap everybody in the class fist thing in the morning for the stuff they were going to do during the day that he wouldn't find out about. A pre-emptive strike if you will.

Paterbrat
2nd May 2005, 19:09
Actually the example brought up by Davaar is very relevent. The youth, child of a Singaporean mother and American father maliciously spraypainted a new Mercedes.
The sentence was to be caned with a ratan cane. They do it seriously down there with a big stick and hard on the buttocks. A protection is worn to prevent inadvertant colateral damage, (you just gotta love that word).
The US President, Clinton, intervened and asked for the punishment to be amended or not administered. This was politely refused, and punishement was administered.
On release the young man was interviewed by the worlds press, for by this time the event had gone worldwide.
ONE very pertinant question was asked and answered. "Would you do that again?" and. "No!!"
Case rests.


Blacksheep sorry that twisted you for ever. Was that perchance the first time you discovered that life isn't 'fair' that 'shit happens' or that sometimes you can carry the can and be unfairly treated for something you were not actualy resposible for or deserved, all of which happen on a regular basis to the majority of us mortals?

Blacksheep
3rd May 2005, 00:56
I'm not bitter and twisted Paterbrat, considering the things that happened to me before I finished primary school that's very surprising actually. No, I simply discovered at a very early age that shit happens when tyrants rule the roost. Also, that you can't tell who the tyrants are just by looking at them.

The tyranical (http://pictures.friendsreunited.co.uk/pictures/4942198.JPG) "Pop" Corner is sitting next to Miss Powell on the front row

Paterbrat
3rd May 2005, 18:11
Have to agree with that Blacksheep, so often the tyrants are the ones who claw their way to the top by any means, behave unethically when they are at the top, and while they are there utilise any means to stay there. Echoes of what seems to be happening here except the cane prison and any discipline seem to be remarkably absent.?????:confused: