A380 Cancellation

[roguepilot]

Just wondering if anyone has heard that the big red rat (Qantas for all you untrained) has cancelled its order for 12 A380 Super Jumbos?

And bought about 2 dozen triplers at a very respectable price?

[Andu]

Stand by for some frothing at the mouth replies to this one.... from both sides of the emotional Atlantic.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hey "rogue'....

Its a WHITE rat in case you hadn't really noticed.....
Now I'll standby for the fan to be correctly positioned in front of the flak.....

10, 9, 8, 7, 6,....:D

[QF skywalker]

I don't think so rogue pilot ;)

Qantas Welcomes First Flight of Airbus A380

Sydney, 27 April 2005


Qantas today welcomed the first flight of the revolutionary new Airbus A380 aircraft in Toulouse, France.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Geoff Dixon, congratulated Airbus on achieving the milestone.

"The first flight of the A380 has been highly anticipated since Airbus revealed the new aircraft to the world earlier this year," Mr Dixon said.

"This is a significant milestone - for Airbus, for customer airlines such as Qantas and for the travelling public.

"Qantas is investing billions of dollars in the A380 and other aircraft to provide customers with the most modern and efficient fleet.

"The size of the A380 means we will be able to carry more people, further, than ever before and its technical capabilities will deliver real operational efficiencies and significant improvements in terms of environmental performance."

Mr Dixon said Qantas would operate its A380s in a three class, 501 seat configuration on international services between Australia and the United States and on the Kangaroo Route to the United Kingdom.

"The Qantas A380 will provide new levels of innovation, comfort and space for passengers," Mr Dixon said.

"We are finalising a range of major new product and service enhancements that will include new seat designs, special lounge areas, video on demand, internet capability and larger entertainment screens.

"Importantly, this investment will then flow through all of our international operations in coming years."

Qantas will take delivery of the first of 12 A380s in October 2006.

[Capt Stabbin]

No truth to your rumour rogue pilot. The A380s are a-comin'.

[Gigi' The Mutant]

F/O slots advertised today.

Mainline - No JQ or AO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keg]

Interesting, no commands advertised. I guess it'll be purely trainers as skippers to start off with and the 'line' commands will kick off from next years allocation!

Interesting times! :}

What about the rumour that Boeing has offered to buy all the 744s and maintain them and lease them back to QF (does this fit in with the thread about ETOMS being sold off?) and for QF to place a very significant order for 777s and 787s. I'm not sure what the future was for the A330 in that mix though and the 'source' wasn't sure! :} :E

[the oracle of life]

future fleet composition QF mainline 2012--2015

B747/400ER--6 hulls -longhaul
A380--12 to 20 hulls -longhaul
B777/787 combination 50+ hulls- some B787's configured for domestic ops
B738--40 to 45 hulls domestic ops

all b747/300/400RR+OEB/C/D removed from service
all b767 fleet removed from service including AO
all A330/200/300 fleet transferd to AO

close to the heartbeat
the oracle of life knows all:ok:

[Going Boeing]

Rogue - Doing a little fishing with this crap thread!!

Oracle - I agree with your long term summary with the exception of the A330's - they will be traded in on the B777's. Also it's possible that OJS,T,U B744's will be retained in addition to the 6 B744ER's

[Keg]

Oracle, right type mix, wrong numbers.

I reckon GB is closer with the number of 744s and the later versions (before the ERs) aren't that old.

777/787- not enough airframes in your mix. 50 isn't enough for what I reckon we'll need them to do. Replace the 17 A330s, 25(ish) 767s, a similar number bunch of 744s and expand the business as well? That needs a few more than 50 airframes.

[the oracle of life]

gb and keg ---good points--still i am unsure what the future expansion / direction of JS and AO could have on future QF mainline fleet composition --i don't think QF management know either or still the posiable tie up with ANZ - that might be dead at the moment -but QF would resurect that again if the opportunity presented it self----- any one care to comment?

[SeldomFixit]

Any increase in AO hull numbers will see a corresponding decrease in mainline numbers, or haven't you noticed the creeping "C" scale COS yet ?

[ur2]

Just wondering what peoples opinions are on the continued viability of AO is ?
Is it doing well or not so good. ?

[ruprecht]

A380 / A330 / B744 / B777....... but what we all want to know is.....

What's happening to the Classic?:hmm:

ruprecht.

[6fingeredman]

Keg,
From the sound of things, you are also going to need prior F/O experience before jumping in the right hand seat of the A380, so that prevents vertical promotion from S/O744 to F/O380....bummer if anyone thought that was a way out!

[A333]

I agree that some B744s will stay, from memory a few of them were manufactured in 1999!

Keg,

Can you please give more information on the rumour of Boeing buying all of the B744s and then leasing it back to Qantas?

[Orville]

Yes....... there is a little bit of truth in all these rumours, otherwise they wouldn't be rumours if there wasn't.

Yes......The A330 is going ...... the only reason Qantas agreed to them was that Airbus would not deliver A380 to ANY operator that didn't already operate an airbus a/c................ No F/o's moving from a boeing to A380 sorry.

Yes......Boeing is offering BIG incentives for QF to rejoin Boeing again and B777 and B787 are definitely a go.

Yes......No need for AO F/o's as by the end of this year they will be no longer operating. Check the asset value of AO on the last
Financial statement.... as good as gone. but you may see them change colours and become a part of Jet* Asia. .... before the end of the year. Management very touchy on the subject .... so definitely some truth in that rumour.

Yes ...... in the short term ...OJS,T,U B744's will be retained in addition to the 6 B744ER's..... too much money spent on them not to get some return before retirement.

New gen 737 are a go...... never loose money on a 737 ...... real work horse.

Here is some additional.... Cairns will be the first Engineering Facility to go only doing a small percentage of Qf. a/c now mainly AO and Jet*. so engineering will be transfered to new MRO and contracted to handle QF a/c. .......... SOON.... look to the EBA.

Yes........The classic is gone unfortunately... but there is a plan to convert existing B744's to Freighters and expand the growing market in freight op's.... Boeing has agreed to fund a percentage of the reconfig.

Can't say much else ........ else they zero in on me and my demise will then be another rumour.

[Keg]

A333, apart from naming the source (which as I said, wasn't one of my 'usuals'), I've got nothing more than what I posted. Sorry about that but I've been well and truly out of the loop for about six weeks and will be for a little while longer! :(

Orville, interesting bits all although whilst this bit is technically correct, it only tells half the story:

No F/o's moving from a boeing to A380 sorry.

Boeing F/Os are more than welcome to bid for the A380 however the conversion to the aircraft includes an A330 course and some time on line as an A330 F/O first. So whilst boeing F/Os won't be moving directly to the A380, they will be eligible to bid for a slot and be awarded an Airbus slot for eventual conversion onto the A380!

Hadn't heard the bizzo about AO. Interesting angle. I'd be suprised- especially given that they commenced training for a couple of new commands up there not long ago and still have a couple more scheduled. If they are planning to wind it up, someone has forgotten to tell those making the decisions on the crewing of it. (Not that THAT would be all that unusual. Short of Captains on the mainline 767 again! :rolleyes: )

[A333]

No problems Keg, it's only a rumour. Wouldn't be suprised if there wasn't anymore information ;)

One more thing, if the A330s are going then how can pilots who want to bid for F/O on the A380 be able to fly F/O on the A330 first?

Cheers :ok:

[Gigi' The Mutant]

A3330's to stay for the simple reason that no trade in deal is going to cover the costs of implementing the new fleet into service.


Additionally, the capacity is needed.

Why not keep the A330 and buy the 772/3 as well ?

Keg, I enjoy your posts, but it might be worth keeping details on training courses quiet. Particulary as QF is the only aviation employer still paying for training anymore

Are you bidding for the -380 ?

[ftrplt]

It seems that providing selected parts of the story helps make the story that little more juicy!!

The requirements for future A380 FO's to have prior A330 time applies to crews for the first 2 acft only.

The only pre-requirement for FO A380 is FO time on another company acft; if that isnt A330 then 'experience will be provided' prior to converting to A380.

AO coming up to 3 years in operation; suprise suprise initial contracts 3 years, so now seeing first group of returnees. AO captains advertised to replace CAPTS returning to mainline; FO training for AO has only recently been completed and less FO's returning to mainline.

AO 6th acft has been delayed; but AO will be here longer than the end of the year.

[the oracle of life]

Gents

with out giving to much away-- otherwise it will be my demise as well --long term fleet planning and i stress long term-- the A330 fleet will be moved to AO -if its still a sound operation well after the A380 as been /established on QF mainline --the B767 fleet will be approching the end of their usefull lives around 2008-2012-- b787 will be the replacement with some configured for domestic ops and some for the international routes the A330 operates plus development of new ones. the A380/B777 are the combination that will replace the b743/4 fleet in the distantant future -- hull numbers yet to be decided --but i can tell you the economics of the B777/B787 has been very closely looked at--
i'm not trying to stir s :mad: t up --but i have to be very carefull what i say and keep it simple.

close to the heartbeat

oracle
:ok:

[Keg]

Gigi, I'm not bidding for the A380. I've spent too many years slagging Airbus design philosophy to jump onto the thing now. With luck (and the right decisions by QF along the way!), I'll be a Boeing driver forever! :ok: :}

Oracle, the 787 would seem a perfect fit for AO operations....disregard, we need to do something with the A330s that will justify the amount of wasted money we spent on them don't we! :ouch: :E

[Buckshot]

Yes ...... in the short term ...OJS,T,U B744's will be retained in addition to the 6 B744ER's..... too much money spent on them not to get some return before retirement.

And what about -OJH? I think officially it's now only 6 years old.

[ur2]

Is AO's future assured and will there continue to be a place for it in the QF stable of airlines ?

[A333]

Yes, a few B744s are only 6 years old. Would be a total waste if they were retired!

I can't imagine the Qantas fleet with B744s :\

VH-QPC only just got upgraded didn't it? However, I'd rather see the 787s doing the current A333 routes around Asia :}

[rescue 1]

I would be VERY surprised to see the closure of AO. This business is part of the master plan - erode the conditions of the legacy mainline!!

[Gigi' The Mutant]

I normally don't care about what happens to the A330 as it doesn't effect my part of the world, but in relation to all the A330's 'going' to AO consider this.

If existing AO / QF pilots are to crew this change in type it would require massive training costs.

I assume that most of the existing AO pilots will want to stay in CNS. Also most if not all of the current mainline A330 pilots will not wish to move to CNS.

Bare in mind also that there are two A330 basings, and the simulator is in melbourne. Presumably it would have to be moved also.

So if the 'aircraft swap' option happens, it is potentially not economically viable for existing crew members of both airlines to be used to fly the AO 330 operation.

The alternative then would be to bring in outside contractors - something the AO CP has expressed interest in in the past.

[frangatang]

Just hope the A380 has an airconditioning system that can cope,unlike the 400. All those sweaty feet down the back,upstairs as well as down.

[Eimar Moron]

The A330 fleet is going to see pilots who are currently on 2 year contracts on the A320 with Jet* move across on to it, as it gets fed into the AO network.
Jet* will remain as a purely domestic operation, with AO picking up some of the higher capacity, major capital city routes as well as the current and future international routes.

Expect to see AO grown some more, not only with route structures, but also with other aircraft types (don't imagine that all new aircraft will be replacement types for QF!).