Is a CPL(H) in 150 hrs typical?

[Norvill]

Hi all,

I am nearing the end of my PPL training and starting to think about the CPL. I understand that the mimimum for the PPL is 50 hours but than many people take longer for all kinds of reasons.
Is this also the case with the CPL? I'm asking because I don't much want to budget for 150hrs and end up running out of $$$.
Should I allow a little more?

Much appreciated
Norvill

[Bravo73]

Reading directly from LASORS 2005 (which, generally, will have all the answers) you will need 155hrs in helis (including 50hrs PIC) before you start the JAA CPL(H) course. (As well as having completed the CPL/ATPL(H) theory side of things, of course).

The CPL(H) course itself is 30hrs. Now, by the time you get there, there really shouldn't be any reason to over-run on that 30hrs.

If there are any elements of your flying that need improving or ironing out post-PPL, I can only suggest that you use your hour-building 'wisely'. Get used to being disciplined in the air, in terms of the 'aviate' (ie fly accurately), 'communicate' (use the R/T properly) and 'navigate' (fly accurately, WITHOUT having to rely on a moving map GPS). In other words, get used to flying to CPL tolerances.


Now, more importantly (if funds are being stretched in order to cover the CPL), please be aware that a CPL(H) on it's own is next to useless. It's been covered ad infinitum on this forum already but unless you are exceptionally lucky or exceptionally well connected, you will not get a job with just a CPL(H). However, if you have an FI(R) rating, your chances of employment will be greatly improved. But to get that, you'll need to budget for another 70-odd hours hour-building (to bring you up to 250hrs) and then £8-10,000 for the FI course.

I know that this might sound a little harsh, but please don't then tell us that you weren't warned.


I hope this helps and the best of luck to you.


Regards,

B73

[Camp Freddie]

Hey Norvill,

are you in the UK? you are using numbers like 50/150 instead of 45/185 also using $, where are you located ?

oh yeah and listen to Bravo 73 he is wise man who speaks the truth, I have posted many times similar

CPL(H) only £40k approx high risk, no chance of employent
CPL(H) + FI rating £60k approx, low risk much better chance of employment but rewards can be low until you become high time
CPL(H) + IR £70k high risk, potentially high returns is you get to the north sea, jobs scarce at present

spend smart go for the middle one

regards

CF

[Norvill]

Thanks guys,

Sorry, I should have mentioned where I'm doing my training.
New Zealand, South Island. The system here works:
50hrs minimum for a PPL and 150hrs minimum for a CPL (or 125 for a fully approved course). It sounds as though things work a bit differently, hours wise in the UK ..... not to mention the apparent difference in cost!
I'm thinking about wether to continue with the CPL at my current school, as their students average time to PPL is I think around 70 hours or so. Wasn't sure if this was typical given the 50 hour minimum. I guess it's called a minimum for a reason though, right?

Norvill

[Bravo73]

Ah, sorry about that, Norvill. My info was indeed UK-specific. No idea about Kiwi stuff, I'm afraid.


Best of luck anyway.

B73



PS And CF, I've been called many things but never that before - thanks! :D

[VeeAny]

CF wise words about the risk situation, never seen it put that way before but very true.

Norvill not all schools with low averages are good and not all with high hour averages are bad.

I know of one school where it takes 45 ( legal minimum) all the time no matter what the students ability is.

I know some are out to milk you however don't make the decision purely on averages.

Are you treated fairly as far as aircraft availability is concerned?
do the instructors know what they are doing ?
what do the other students feel about the place ?

I would like to point out that i know nothing about flying in NZ and no one down there so my advice may be utter rubbish, however I think it will apply across the board for paying students worldwide.

V

[EMS R22]

Just wondering what company you are doing your training through? I did my training at a south island company about 3 years ago and guys were doing there PPLs at anywhere between 50 and 120hrs!

[Norvill]

EMSr22

Well ..... I wouldn't want to name the school buy they are located in the central South Island. Recently I've heard talk about a couple of students (at my school) that finished the CPL with 170 and 185 hrs. That seems like a lot considering the minimum is only 150. Of course, I don't really know either of these guys and have no idea of their ability or other issues that might result in high hours. The instructors at the school seem good, maybe a little disorganised at times but nothing too serious. I suspect that the disorganisation arises from having a lot of part-timers, which makes it hard to get more than one lesson in a row with a particular instructor.
I myself currently have around 65 hours and I shouldn't think that I will get the PPL with less than 70.

Norvill

[ems300]

gidday, thats not to bad!! i now of guys that are passing there cpl's with just under 200 hrs!!! thats really not good!!! as long as you pass it as close to 150 hrs then thats not to bad, it all has to do with how good the instructors are!! make them work for their money!!!

[Arm out the window]

Depends on how good the instructors are, yes partly, but how about your own preparation, dedication, aptitude...much more important I would say.

[Whirlybird]

It depends on...all sorts of things. There are schools that are determined to get people through their PPL in minimal hours, and send them out with just barely the knowledge that's on the syllabus. There are others that, especially if you're flying the R22, figure you need more...and teach you a lot of emergency stuff I never learned till much later - extensive governor failure training, stuck collectives, etc etc. A very experienced instructor I met in the USA said he felt the course really needed to be 70 hours minimum, to make sure people knew enough to fly safely. It's a valid point. And of course the quality of instruction and aptitude/dedication of the student makes a difference too. I learned long ago that minimum hours doesn't necessarily equal good, in any way. Or vice versa, for that matter. And ditto for the CPL, and FI rating...what you end up with can vary, and it depends what you want.

Difficult, innit? :confused:

[Von Smallhousen]

Norvill

It is possible in NZ to get a CPL (H) with a 100hrs if you can cross credit 100hrs of PIC fixed wing time in the last 12 months at the time of sitting your flight test.

The fixed wing will also give you a extra string to your bow.

You do have to nail down your instructors to your goals and be flying regularly with preferably 1 instructor otherwise you are just revising all the time and not moving forward.

Bravo73 is quite right the CPL is only the start, so you need to have some money saved for turbine ratings and possibley a night rating or insturment rating. These are all things that give you and edge over the next guy for you first job.

It is also a good idear to be thinking of what type of flying you want to do Eg oilrigs, tourist etc and be working toward your goal and getting to know other pilots in those areas.

Good Luck

:ok:

[EMS R22]

NORVIL

There nothing wrong with passing your ppl/cpl with a few more hours then the 50/150,but when this was the norm at the company were i trained, you have to ask your self.To put it plainly they used to accept anyone and everyone.This ment big student numbers and thats what you became, just a number!

[ems300]

that wouldn't happen to be the same school i went to? it was known and still is as the helicopter pilot factory!!! if it is the same school then it pays to look around as you don't get as much "commercial experiance" as they promise!! they are all talk!!!

[EMS Mini 500]

now that sounds like the same place i trained aswell.
i hear they have some md500e parts going cheap:ok:

[ems300]

yeah they might have some parts that are still straightish!!!:(

[hemac]

Being one who is currently training for my PPL(H) with a view to CPL(H).
I initially was concerned about completing the course in the minimum time, however, once your PPL(H) is completed you still need to hours build which is going to cost you. The hours building will be cheeper than dual instruction but even with your PPL(H) I have been advised that there will be times when you want to practice a certain mavouvre or flight and it is advisable to do it with an instrcutor. Auto's, Heliroutes, etc.
I think ultimately it's going to cost a lot of money and the financial rewards will be low, at least initially. But if you are doing it for the money I personally would advise you to think again.

Ultimately The more hours it takes the more hours you get to do what you dreamed of doing; which is flying. Yippee:O

[flap2equality]

Hi,
I finished my CPL(H) in NZ back in jan of this year, I passed my PPl test at 76 hrs, This was due to a certain lack of continuity caused in no small part by the weather. However i went on to do the CPl syllabus including sling and night ratings and sat the CPL flight test at exactly 150Hrs. And passed!!
From start to finish i was in training for 9 months, and the best advice i can offer is get the exams out of the way, and stick with one instructor, i had a great one (thats you J).
I am now back in the UK and it sucks i have no money and no prospect of any job, so its back to saving to do my FI back in NZ.

If you want to know any more of my experience then please do not hesitate to PM me.

Good luck and enjoy, cos it sucks when it comes to an end!:{ :{

[EMS_Gyrocopter]

K there seems to be a pattern forming spare parts for MD500's even. Sounds like the place i trained they were located in the very same area.

Something tells me they haven't built up a good rep, I was there Until late last year and sat my CPL at 151 hrs. But there were guys there that had 150+ hrs and had turbine ratings etc that weren't even allowed to sit there CPL's. But getting their PPL's was easy they even had occurances where landing with the fuel light on during a normal flight test was considered acceptable to pass.

they did have a nice jet tho :)

[EMS Mini 500]

i heard of a place in Christchurch who threw a guy out with a 150 hrs. They told him he didnt have what it takes. It sounds like a ploy just to take student loans of people.

[ems300]

that place sounds very familiar!!! i know of more than one guy that got to that stage and got told "You don't have what it takes" they also had guys with over 100 hours before they could sit their ppl's!!! I think that it is a place that is more than happy to take your money and promise what they WON"T give!!! They are also known as "the heli pilot factory'!!!!!:ok:

[EMS R22]

If this is the company i think it is , give it a break. They were one of the most profesional companies i have worked for. This sounds like a few students moaning about not geting a job after training!