Hello Naples... anyone there?

[ChocksAwayUK]

Getting booked in for hour building at Naples is proving a bit of a problem. I'm not getting any response from emails or answerphone messages and when i occasionally get hold of someone on the phone i get contradicting advice or told they'll email me!

So does anyone have a contact number or email address for someone who can get things sorted (rather than the numbers/addresses on the website).


My latest email:

Hi -

I really hope that someone can help ASAP!

Following a month or so of unreturned phone messages and emails I finally got through to someone at Naples who advised that you would definitely have a C-152 available for me to hire in mid May and that i should enroll online. I have done this and have been waiting about ten days for the paperwork necessary for the visa.

On phoning Naples yesterday i was told that my preferred dates were fully booked and that i had been sent an email requesting other preferable dates. I have not received this email to my junk/spam or otherwise. In case of confusion (which i doubt as i received this email OK) i gave Gerry(?) my correct address. However, i still have not received the email.

Please can someone sort this out right away. I intended to start my hour building in about 2 weeks but due to what seems like your ineptitude this looks like it may be put back at least a month. I know that you may be busy and it is possible that these problems may de due to factors beyond your control. However, these problems have messed up my whole schedule and are causing problems with regard to my subsequent training later this year in the UK.

If you need to phone +44 7967 xxxxxx.

I am very reluctant to rearrange my hour building to another country but will have to unless i get these sorted ASAP.

All the best,

[pipergirl]

i have had exactly the same problem and know of many others as well...seems to be a bit of a joke tbh

I sent emails, filled in their online enquiry, sent more emails, sent PMs to anyone on PPRUNE who is associated with them..but no joy..very very unprofessional:*

[9mm]

Chocks,

Sounds like you are fast exhausting all avenues of communication with Naples. I cannot help you with further contact details for this company.

One way to get a message to them would be to take your flying and your cash elsewhere in FL, fly in to Naples and go and see someone in person.

Since you are hour building you probably don’t have visa restrictions and can quite easily take your business elsewhere – I am certain there will be many businesses only too happy to serve you.

All the best, enjoy your hour building.

9mm

[ChocksAwayUK]

Thanks for the responses... nice to know that I'm not alone.

That's good advice 9mm and that's what i'd do ideally. However, i'm a bit restricted in that they have my $500 deposit and that i probably do need a visa as i need to get a night rating. If i could find somewhere convenient willing to do the night rating in the UK this summer that may open up my options.. I think i may have to explore that avenue further actually.

If it's this difficult to give them my business i can't imagine how difficult it'll be to get my deposit back..definitely worth a go if this isn't sorted out soon though.

[pipergirl]

can u not put a stop on the $500 payment?

[ChocksAwayUK]

Nope, £274 already debited from my account. Don't i feel silly.

[pipergirl]

can u not get on to ur credit card company and explain what's happening..they might be able to help?

sounds really quite bad tbh:bored:

[ChocksAwayUK]

That's a good point pipergirl... that may well be a possibility if it comes to it. Thanks.

[raceeend]

I'm Currently in Naples,

Verry Busy here, if nobody aswers the phone or emails i would go some place else, especialy for hour building. Here in Naples you've got EAA as wel and they have C172's as wel.

Or else try OFT in Orlando, planes enough and the P28's are good.

Good luck!

[Pete Begley]

For your information.

Credit card companies are very good. If you ring them (as I did with a paypal payment that was dodgy) and explain the problem, in your case, no contact of any description for xx days and you wish to withdraw, they will almost certainly credit you immediately and contact Naples to find out what's up.

Or you could ask the credit card company to just give Naples a wake up call.

That's the beauty of using a card, the fringe benefits.

Hope this helps, and I'm sure Naples are just snowed under with work, not deliberately ignoring you.

[charlie-india-mike]

Being 'snowed under' with work is not an excuse to take a clients money and then ignore them.

C-I-M

[pipergirl]

it's a terrible way of carrying on..if they are "so busy" then they should employ someone to specifically deal with these enquiries as it appears they are loosing a lot of business on this issue alone...i think in this instance, the only way to "get through" is hit them in the pocket, then you'll see them getting in contact with you pretty sharpish:hmm:

It's a pity really, I wanted to look into doing CPL ME rating/Night rating and hour building...

[flyingmad]

I am going to Naples soon and have been trying to contact them re certain issues and they either do not reply or contradict each other. Shame for one of the most reknowned schools in the country.

[Pete Begley]

Being 'snowed under' with work is not an excuse to take a clients money and then ignore them.

Agreed I was just trying to look from both sides and give them the benefit of the doubt. They are only hurting themselves if so.:(

[clarityinthemurk]

Can only reinforce what has been said before.....if you are being ignored when trying to throw business at a school, what do you think the instruction set-up is going to be like?

[flyingmad]

I am going in 4 weeks
Should I be worried about the teaching there. WHen I turn up on the first day could I be turned away. I am so worried. Anyone with some advice please.

[2Donkeys]

I would count myself as a big fan of Naples. But, they are absolutely terrible with e-mail. I have had only sporadic luck getting replies to e-mails, and have always resorted to a phone call in the end.

This said, once on the end of the phone, I have had no problem at all. Perhaps ensuring that you speak to Nikki when you call would be better than being dealt with by whoever picks up the phone. That would be my top tip.

I wouldn't worry too much about the quality of instruction. From my own experience, that is not a deficiency. It may be tempting to judge a flightschool by its use of technology (and I include voicemail systems in that), but on this occasion, the conclusion you reach would be wrong.

2D

[flyingmad]

thanks for that 2Donkeys

[merch]

Anyone going to Naples should try Europe American Aviation, new aircraft, well maintained, they are almost next door to Naples Air centre.
web site eaa-fly.com

[2Donkeys]

They do look like Pretty Aircraft merch. I guess you wouldn't have a commercial interest, just looking at your location.

Naples generally is a nice place to fly, especially during the time of year that we are just leaving behind :D

2D

[merch]

No commercial interest 2D, just an exiled Brit who does a bit of flying with them.

[2Donkeys]

I am seriously considering that kind of exile. My aeroplane enjoyed sucking down that cheap American AVGAS in Naples a few weeks ago. It is hating adjusting back to the expensive stuff they serve in Cranfield. :(

2D

[Ninety-Nines]

First of all our sincere apologies for your problem with the email. Every now and then our mail washer pulls a fast one and doesn't let anyone in!!!

Perhaps if you can give me your name and I will confirm any or all to you. As far as I am aware all enrollments are up to date as of yesterday morning - reservations are only taken from enrollment forms - please confirm if you have sent one and if so when.

flyingmad

Have you had any problems with your paperwork......I know that I responded to you on PPrune earlier however with all these pseudonyms I cannot tell who any one is to help them out!

clarityinthemurk

Thanks for that..........the Instructors have absolutely nothing to do with the admin......please do not stain their great reputations because of email problems! Our pass rates speak for themselves!

Pipergirl

If you have had ant email problems then please let me know (again I do not know who you are!). I will say that out JAA CPL prgoramme is now full to September......if we can assist you in gaining you CPL then, we would look forward to welcoming you.....if you need to complete training earlier than that please contact me and I will help you with some other choices:

[email protected]

In regards to deposits, NAC will certainly return any from those who cannot be accommodated....hopefully we can get to the bottom of this!

[Charlie Zulu]

For what it is worth I will say the ATPL ground school staff at NAC are a lot quicker and more likely to respond to emails than the flight school department. :)

As Nikki says the Instructors have nothing to do with the Admin side of things. From a laymans point of view, the closest that the instructors get to the Admin side is arranging flight schedules (which is run on quite a good system - nothing like their email systems!!!).

I have come away on two occassions with first time passes in FAA CPL, IR, Multi checkrides all within the allocated time with some to spare... and I know of others personally who have done the same.

As for hour building? Not really done any "fun" flying whilst at NAC. Except the odd one or two trips up to Lakeland and Venice.

I know this is a thread about NAC but for hour building I'd go to California... more variety in scenery, mountains, etc... Landing at Santa Barbara on the Pacific coast in the morning, lunch at Big Bear at 6500' MSL in the mountains and another hour and a half flight you'll be in at the big city within the desert... Las Vegas for the evenings entertainment!

ChocksAwayUK,

As you're only going to be hour building (according to this thread) then you will not require a visa. You can enter the USA on a visa waiver scheme.

I believe there may be a TSA requirement once you get to the USA though - I may be wrong though and I'm sure Nikki has informed you of what is required.

[VisaGeeza]

CZ is spot on with his suggestion of California for hour building, I based myself in Bullhead city AZ on a recent trip there to avoid a storm system over LA. 4 star hotel with 2 queen beds overlooking the Colorado and the airport for less than 30 quid a night and dinner for around a fiver, breakfast 3 quid. Just ignore the gambling, that subsidises the room and food.

When the weather is good, the flying experience of LA is superb. Try the corridor over LAX running N/South down to the Queen Mary.

Chocks, check your PM's

[ChocksAwayUK]

Ninety-Nines -

Thanks very much for the response. It's good to know that there's someone out there capable of intelligent communication!

Yup, i enrolled on the 16th of April and really hoped to have the paperwork by now for subsequent visa application so i could start in the middle of May. Anyway.. I'll email you when I'm certain of what i want to do. I think I may have to back out of the Night Rating at the very least as the Visa issues have pushed things back too far. Looks like i may have to do that part in the UK.. no small task in the summer months!

Thanks all for the advice and PMs. It certainly seems that Naples Air Center's reputation for flying training is deserved and solid but, as is evident, customer service and admin is severley lacking and disorganised. It also seems that it really isn't the best place for hour building so I'll certainly be considering elsewhere... I'm sure they don't need my business though!

Incidentally I eventually got a response from the second sending of my email quoted at the beginning of the thread. One line:

I have responded to you after you had the conversation with Sery.

Badly written, completely unhelpful and of absolutely no baring on any of the issues raised by the email.. I'm not even certain what it means and still haven't heard a response following a request for clarification.

[scameron77]

When I was doing my research around 6-8 months ago I sent Naples various emails along with EFT and some of the other big schools that tend to have the nice glossy ads in the back of the aviation press. You should be able to find out what info I did get on one of my first posts on here.

As it turned out, I never heard anything back from them so that made my final decision easier. Like one of the earlier posters, if they don't show overwhelming customer service at the intial stage then what else can you expect when you get there and signed over a significant amount of cash.

If they are so busy then it means they are racking it in, consequently they can employ someone to answer email and telephone enquiries.

Just do your homework and then the decision is easy. I spent 3 months trudging through PPRuNe looking for info on which school/org satisfied all of my requirements. I now feel vindicated by my initial hard work.

Stephen

[scroggs]

You (all of you!) are spending a very great deal of money to get the service you are looking for, whether we're talking about ATPL groundschool, PPL, or a full fATPL course. Always remember that you are the customer; no flight training school is doing you a favour by taking your money!

If you have problems communicating with your intended school, then be prepared to withhold your custom. I don't mean to suggest that you over-react to the kind of temporary problems that can affect any business, but don't let their problems become problems for you.

Perhaps most importantly, don't give anyone any money without establishing (by personal contact - written or by e-mail) exactly what it is you're paying for, when it should be completed by, and what services you expect and are paying for.

Naples seems, by reputation, to be a good school, but don't let them - or anyone else - get away with poor customer service.

Scroggs

[daremetonite]

been there done it and regretted it.... as everyone else i decide to train at nac... wow pay peanuts get monkeys..a/c not in acceptable training condition...nothing like what they advertise.. low houred instructors hence lack of experience..i prefer retractable gear and not collapsable but thats the situation with nac...they pushed my traing back due to school closing down without prior notice... and for 3 weeks nobody said anything... switched to EAA, few doors from nac, and what a change... professional service i knew and felt my monies are safe.. completed training ahead of schedule due to good a/c's all with GPS, excellent instructors, they also pay back good rates on fuel purchase unlike nac...
personal opinion as i am sure most would agree as students especially foriegn students.. the last thing we need is time and monies wasted.
Good luck...

[Kingron]

I have recently booked to go to Naples mid May. I had to change my dates, and as a result have called them several times and got through 1st time each time.

The two people that I have dealt with were very helpful and friendly.

Remembering that they are 5 hours behind, I have tended to call them around 8pm GMT. I have used the following number:

001 239 643 1717

I hope I dont have a similar problem in the future. I did notice when I paid the $500 reservation fee that it stated that it was fully refundable if you dont use their services.

Finally if you are calling the usa a lot which I tend to do, and you or your family might especially whilst you are there you might want to subscribe to www.1899.com

Most calls made to the USA when you predial 1899 are fixed at 3p per call. NOT PER MINUTE!

[daniel78]

if good old 99´s spent as much time doing her daytime job as she does lurking pprune at night ChocksAway would have his visa by now and packing for his trip to florida

ChocksAway my compliments to you sir,by the way,good luck in getting your 500 deposit back,it´s probably already been spent on kitty-litter or something (no offence to the cats)

I´m out

[fescalised portion]

I personally wouldn't hesitate to recommend going to NAC for training, but if you are going there to hour build, forget it unless you plan to land back at KAPF to refuel every time you depart, which kind of restricts your plans!

You are paying to rent a "wet" aircraft but when you return and hand in your fuel receipts for reimbursement of the fuel that you had to purchase down-route, you are only refunded at $1.55 per gallon, which falls way short of the average of at least $3.00 that you are charged elsewhere. This will make it considerably more expensive per hour for you.

Just something to bare in mind.....

[thejakes]

Don't even start me on Naples Air Center, I could write an essay of the school's bad things. I've recently returned from them and the instuction was great but the management was absolutely unforgivable. The only way of getting through to them successfully is via the phone, and that is never certain, they never reply to emails, and I'm still waiting for my deposit to be refunded 4 weeks later. Everyone there is of the same opinion including (and even more so) the instructors. If they carry on the way they are they will lose business pretty rapidly, as I can feel negative talk on the grapevine already.

If I were you I'd take my hour building business elsewhere pretty quickly to the many other places that are much cheaper and have better planes. Keep phoning until you get through and speak to your credit card company immediately, because they are prepared to take your money very speedily without any half-decent service one would expect for the amount being handed over.

Many other better places.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

That's a shame, I had a great time while I was there with none of the above problems.

[ChocksAwayUK]

There was another thread stating similar problems the other day though strangely that was swiftly deleted... hmmmm...

Anyway, following my thread "Hello Naples.. is anyone there?" i received several PMs stating pretty much what you're saying... I think things must have changed since CatIIIc's visit.

However, i did receive an email stating they'd recredited my deposit last Sunday... still no sign of it in my account though.

[Ninety-Nines]

I can confirm that your deposit was completed as stated.

I can also confirm that you will see this up to 10 days later on your account as althought the bank takes the money from us, it only appears on cc's days later.

As I mentioned in my email to you and a copy of your enrollment form......problems arose when your chose dates that were 1 month prior to the next available start dates.

thejakes

As you know Bea and I have personal emails so why not email us directly so we can check on your deposit......please remember that your deposit is stated to be refunded within 14 days of your departure and then the banks take up to 10 days to place credit on a credit card. I suggest that you PM me your name so that I can check up on it.

As for not answering the phone........where were you? Being at NAC you must have seen us all on the phones all day long.......we are answering it incessantly.......I personally took approx 30 calls just today! Just dial 0 and you will get through to the flight desk all day long even through the dispatching madness!

[ChocksAwayUK]

Thanks very much for confirming that Nikki.. that's reassuring.

However - i haven't received this other email that you mention or the copy of my enrolment form. Maybe a lot of these issues would be sorted if you readdressed your email system. :ok: In fact I replied to your email Re: Deposit to thank you for dealing with it so quickly and my email was bounced back 24 hours later saying that your email address didn't exist.

Also it seems strange that there'd be "start dates" for hour building.. especially when i was assured on the phone that you'd have several 152's available and i should just enrol online. Oh well, you live and learn.

[daniel78]

I for one am getting tired of reading about NAC. It is just a waste of space.
Like one of you said here before,the majority of the bad press about them get´s deleted anyway.
This is where they put up a fake facade to lure you in for the slaughter.Once you get there you will be shocked of how bad it really is.
But at least it seems to be getting better.
Now some of the people enrolling never get to actually experience it.They pay the 500$ deposit and never here from NAC again.
Just look at ChocksAway.
He is the lucky one.Just cut your losses and run.
You will be losing a whole lot more actually getting there including your sanity.
I think we should all move on and let the matter rest in peace.
The way NAC conduct business,they will be dead and buried pretty soon anyway.

Daniel

[VisaGeeza]

Daniel78, The way you harp on about NAC makes me think that you are have a one man vendetta against NAC! You know as well as I do that NAC are at least as good as any flight school in the USA and when you consider the numbers of students passing through there, there are very few complaints - except from first time posters who are often those (like you) who just simply re-register under different guises in the dumb belief that nobody will guess! :rolleyes:

The search function speaks volumes about you!

Credit where credit is due and NAC deserve plenty!

[worldclassmusician]

I studied for my PPL with a Night Rating at NAC and had no problems at all. The instructors (Sebastian for me) were fantastic, the aircraft were well maintained and readily available. And Nikki and the rest of the crew were very very helpful.

I passed the PPL and got the night qualification within 3 weeks and had a great time. So much so that I'm considering the ATPL groundschool and CPL/ME with the guys again very soon......I miss tin city. :(

Highly advisable school to study in. NAC..... I love ya. (any chance of a discount now? Perhaps an all-expenses paid circum-navigation with the NAC logo branded on your new 172? nah?)

Tony Graham

[rjmore]

Check out West Air Aviation in Las Vegas, http://www.westairaviation.com. Good people and good aircraft for your time building. Also try SkyBlue in Boca Raton, new outfit and upscale depending on your budget.

[daniel78]

VisaGeeza´s post just proves my point of a waste of space.
He points out that I have written about NAC before,true that
Having spent most of 2004 there,I think I know a thing or two about the operation
secondly he calls me a "one man vendetta",tell that to the other 6 or so people complaining about NAC in this topic alone

Visa Geeza,I am immune to your allegations,I stand for what I write under my real name

I asked you this before,but what are your experiences with NAC,
since you are always so eager to defend them?

[ChocksAwayUK]

I can now confirm that my deposit has been credited to my account so thanks nikki.

Looks like I lost about £20 on the exchange rate though.. add that to the few hundred pounds and 2 or 3 weeks lost time and you have quite a costly learning experience.. :}

[9mm]

Chocks,

I think you have made a wise decision in choosing not to take your business to Naples, simply because of their poor customer service. Yes it is a bitter pill to swallow taking a hit financially when it is no fault of your own – but it could have been worse!

All the best with your hour building and don’t forget your camera/video camera!!

9mm.

P.S. I am not questioning the quality of instruction at the school or the quality of the set-up just the customer service as described by Chocks.

[VisaGeeza]

Daniel, Having spent most of 2004 there Couldn't have been that bad there then! So why are you bitching? didn't the staff pander to your every whim?

Nobody has a coherant complaint about NAC. If you don't like the way that NAC run THEIR business, go to one of their competitors and really have something to whinge about - I have the experience of other schools that you lack - and wouldn't want - trust me!!!!

Steve 2005

[daniel78]

VisaGeeza, there you go wasting space again....
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
there are very few complaints - except from first time posters who are often those (like you) who just simply re-register under different guises in the dumb belief that nobody will guess!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and I would like to see a raise of hands to anybody that buys your arguments(!?) (we have yet to see one except you saying NAC are the best and we are all liars,very mature and convincing)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have the experience of other schools that you lack --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don´t you ever get tired of being wrong?
I´ve recently returned from EFT(florida)and altough not perfect,
NAC sure could use some pointers from them in how to run a business.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The search function speaks volumes about you!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

do the search function again,this time for VisaGeeza!
or if you are lazy just do a search on NAC and you will get most of your own posts anyway

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nobody has a coherant complaint about NAC.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tell that to the guy who started this topic,enrolling ,paying the deposit and then be forgotten,not coherant enough for you?
You must be a fan of russian roulette
they know I exist,they don´t know I exist,they know I exist,they.......


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve 2005--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you might as well have written deputy dawg,that name means absolutely nothing to me,at least NAC know who I am

In real life I have yet to meet a student like you,100% satisfied with a school and ready to trample anyone that doesn´t share the same enthusiasm for it,I think simply because they don´t exist
That would make you a figure of someones imagination.....

I am finished "debating" with you,just don´t forget to buckle up fo hurricane season

[VisaGeeza]

You really do have your knickers on twisted don't you?:p

There is no place in aviation for hysteria!

[Charlie Zulu]

WorldClassMusician,

I too miss Tin City. Especially the steaks (and Corona). Not sure about the other find we had at Tin City though. Can I join you in the trip around the globe, ha ha ha ha? :D

I can't fault NAC. Maybe I've been lucky. But from the numerous number of people going through the doors and also having a good experience I'm sure I'm definately not alone.

Granted their email system could do with a bit of work. But then again Nikki replied to my emails last week pretty quickly (within a few hours), but it was addressed to her personal email address at NAC.

As for the admin side otherwise, I've had no problems. Deposits are returned within the 10 days or so after finishing courses. I've always had an aeroplane when I was booked in. Visa paperwork has always arrived within a week of applying for the I20M form.

There was just one day lost on the Multi course as the Seminole (they only have one) had to go into the maintenance department for its 100 Hour. But that is a legal requirement and definately out of NAC's control. Being 4th July didn't help matters either.

For the instructional side, I've had three first time passes at the FAA CPL, IR and Multi checkrides over the last couple of years. Hopefully I'll be able to say the same at the JAA ATPL exams come August. (Fingers Crossed).

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

PS. The beagle pup has gone tech until we have an engineer sign it fit to fly. Lovely day down here in Sarf Wales but can't go flying. Grrrrrr.....

[worldclassmusician]

I concur with Charlie Zulu. I have had the same experiences with NAC. Can't speak for hour building, but FT is second to none.

Charlie Zulu, hope you're keeping July 2nd free for my wedding man, get your kilt ready. E-mail me and I'll let you know which one to get.

Talk soon mate.

World Class

[Charlie Zulu]

Email on its way...

Don't forget I need the wedding pressie list as well!!!

The Beagle Pup is booked from the friday morning to Monday evening. So everything going well I'll be flying myself up to Glasgow.

Still up for a trip to Oban or somewhere on the friday afternoon? Just to take your mind away from the next day events... ?

[HomerJay]

I have been to Naples, OBA and Anglo American aviation. The school ive been most satisfied with so far is AAA. Very nice to deal with, planes were ok, its a great area to fly in and is extremely good value. All schools have their advantages, the 152s in Naples were in good condition but the management dont seem to interested in students who are hour building. OBA has very good instructors and overall i had a good training experience there.
Just do plenty of research before chosing a flight school