EK Profit Share

[Crazycanuk]

I say 5 weeks profit share and the normal 3% pay increment. Anyone else?

[cnsnz]

I thought 4 weeks had already been announced?

[Crazycanuk]

First I have heard. So it is 4 weeks?

[Crazycanuk]

so guys is it for sure 4 weeks. What is the target next year... 5 billion?

[BYMONEK]

An interesting question especially with the high price of fuel. Is that going to be taken into account for next years target? It should be,as that's what we've been constantly reminded about this year.Setting unrealistic targets merely puts enormous pressure on dept's to cut costs regardless,like recruitment freeze for example.That can't continue year on year or eventually the Airline will grind to a hault.
Give everyone a decent salary in the first place, then set a realistic target. And why exactly 4 weeks. Always a convenient round number isn't it. Do you think we've been rounded up or rounded down.....mmmm?
The problem with the current system is that when you're given the likes of 10 weeks profit pay one year, if you don't better it the following year you feel cheated.

.....And that's a feeling I think many will have right now:(

[145qrh]

Yeah, if they hit 5 billion we will get ,something about 1 weeks share.

[Dissapointed]

A 'generous' bonus? I don't think so. When will those at the top of the food chain realise that many of us here are not happy and that a 'generous' 4 weeks is not what we expected. Sorry but the CVs are now being sent out.

[jumbo1]

What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep discovering ey!

[145qrh]

Only way to redeem the situation is by at least a 20% pay rise!!! and there is as much chance of that as there is of getting a B*** J** from the Pope.

[FlyingSpanner]

Play Nice! Dont forget about the 10% increase in utility allowance that we are getting as well!

Oh! Wait a sec, I'm in coompany accom so that equates to, let me think,,,,,,, ah. NOTHING!

Keep Discovering!

[Fugazi]

Hi guys, downroute at the moment. Please confirm a 10% increase in utility allowance has been announced? Effective immediately? Any word on pay? thanks.

[RINGAdingding]

PLEASE dont forget its not 4weeks its 20 days (why they dont give it to us in days is a mystery) so its actually 2weeks and 6 days bonus!!!!!!!they dont want to pay us on a day off now that would be way to generous!! anyway keep discovering :ok:

[Believe Brother]

The one thing that would be nice to know would be how many weeks the senior managers get. Last year, I believe it was significantly more than the 10 weeks us plebs received.

BTW Ringa, I checked last year's May pay slip, and it was actually 70 days they gave us, so expect the 4 weeks will get you 28 days.

Now, does anybody know anything about a UAE labour law regarding payment of a 13th month salary, as per our expat colleagues in Asia?

[fatbus]

That's it. 1 bil us profit over 2 years and only 4 weeks
CV's being updated

[Dropp the Pilot]

Speaking for the other 1180 of us who are just muddling along enjoying ourselves, I'd say we can't wait to see the back of you.

You know you would have made the same post whether it was eight weeks or twelve weeks.

Tiresome git.

[Gulfa]

RINGAdingding

That's not true mate & has allways been a miss informed rumour post profit share.
I don't think 4 weeks is fare for the effort on our part but your just doing the maths wrong.
You will get 4 weeks :

Pre bonus salary, times 12, divide by 365, times 28. = dhs to pay off the credit card.

cheers

[fatbus]

you sure the other 1180 pilots are happy with that?
not the ones I fly with

[Fugazi]

Gulfa is spot on. What about the utility increase though? Was one announced?

[RINGAdingding]

:O I stand corrected GULFA so we can expect a whole months salary then??:\ :\ well the maths makes it pretty close spare a few dingdongs.

FUGAZI i believe 10 percent is the order of the day for allowance paid pronto. Doesnt affect me any so what the hell!!:ok:

[Gulfa]

If the month is february then yes.

Don't spend it all at once.

I think the utilty thing is saying to all of us hanging around " buy your own house asap ! " and get out of Mr Cucumbers grasp

[FlyingSpanner]

CV's going/gone out into the Ether at present. But dont worry boys. You shoud be glad that you have a job. EK gets what is it, oh yes, 25 applications per day!

Looks like there will be a few vacancies over the coming months. I wonder how many resignations there will be the day after the bono is paid cause you cant go before then or apparently they take your bono entitlement away!

Keep Discovering!

Spanner

[Uplink]

I agree with Dropp. People would complain if it was 12 weeks, because that is inherently what pilots do.

I would like to think that we got 4 weeks because there is a good payrise in the offing. I doubt it, but here's hoping. Treat the bonus for what it is, a bonus. It is someone giving you money that you didnt have before. When the payrise comes along, that is when you can complain. I never got a bonus before I came here. Like most people it will pay the credit card bills off. I guess it is better than a poke in the eye.

I would also be interested to find out what pay rise would not produce a single complaint. 50% would still find someone who isnt happy. We wont be getting that, thats for sure. If I am honest, if we got 2% I could leave, but actually cant because am locked into here. So the muddling on is the best way for me, for now. If lots leave then it might mean they would have to look at things differently. Looking at the past posts on the Middle East are we really going to expect anything different. ??

Keep discovering ?

Nothing left to discover !!

[turtleneck]

FAQ’s:
- Why does the owner of EK get 25% more benefit share and the employees a generous 60% less, compared to last year?
Answer: Because the poor owner, the governement of Dubai, had to pay more for fuel.
- Who gets the profit of higher fuel prices?
Answer: The same poor governements.
- Why don’t the employees get a 15% salary increase?
Answer: Because the relentlessly bitching employees may very well work for the governement but are by no means governement employees.

Conclusion:
The slightly reduced profit-tickling into one pocket is more than compensated by the icrease into the other one. Inbetween lie the perpetual local hollowness and shortcomings. These are mostly used for their pathetic “mine is bigger than yours” contest with other middle eastern protagonists (I’m talking about airlines, mind you!).

Prediction:
Observing this childish arrogance, creating fast mounting frustration among EK employees, and looking at the mutual slot-, pilot-, f/a- and instructor-snatching among local airlines, I can imagine the astounded looks of european managers (LH,AF,BA) not believing their luck that the fiercest threats to them are caught in macho-self-destruct mode.

Rumour:
As this is a rumour network and the above seems by no means a satire but very real, I can’t help but setting out the rumour that TC must be on BA’s payroll.

and there's still the beach.......

[menard]

The profit sharing programme is just another benefit for entitled employees, it's not a generous gift, or some kind of non expected lotery. I am not considering myself lucky when I take my annual leave ticket, or when I look at the company's contribution to my provident scheme. Yes its nice to get that money, but if I am really honest with myself, considering the amount of profit the company made this year, I think we should have got a lot more.

But, the target is set in such a way that we get something reasonable, not more.

EK is a business, the profit share is not a generous gesture from high management, It's a programme, it has a role.....?????

Enjoy your free reserve days and your free personal simulators.....That four weeks might compensate for some part of the lost overtime...

Menard...

[Warlock2000]

Gulf News:

Emirates records Dh2.6b profit despite high oil prices

By Saifur Rahman, Staff Reporter

Dubai: At a time when most airlines are struggling under the burden of high fuel costs, Emirates Group has reported a 49 per cent surge in net profit for 2004-05 to a record Dh2.6 billion.
According to Shaikh Ahmad, the global aviation industry is a victim of high costs and natural disasters.

"We've had yet another successful year for the company, and the 17th consecutive profitable one for the airline," said Shaikh Ahmad Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, President of Dubai Civil Aviation and Chairman of Emirates Group, as he announced the earnings yesterday.

"The results prove once again we can count on our customers to support Emirates, as long as we deliver on our side of the equation the best aircraft that money can buy, the best ground and inflight service in commercial aviation, and the best overall flying experience at a competitive price."

The group last year earned a profit of Dh1.74 billion.

The robust earnings came on the back of a 36 per cent rise in group revenues to Dh19.1 billion, up from Dh14 billion the previous year.

The group includes Emirates airline and Dnata, its ticketing and ground handling arm. Emirates carried 12.52 million passengers, 2.1 million more than the previous year. Dnata handled 22.3 million passengers.

The results come in what has been another difficult year for the global aviation industry.

The Airbus A380 takes off on its maiden flight yesterday near Toulouse, France.

Shaikh Ahmad said the results were achieved despite high fuel prices, the tsunami disaster and growing competition.

High fuel prices cost the airline an added Dh1 billion last year, he said.

For 2004-05, Emirates will pay an increased dividend of Dh368 million to the Government of Dubai, compared to Dh329 million last year. In total, the ownership will have received Dh1.1 billion from Emirates since dividends started being paid six years ago.

The airline has an orderbook of Dh110 billion, involving 97 firm orders, including 45 Airbus A380s, by far the largest of any carrier.

Airbus also made aviation history yesterday as its A380 superjumbo took to the skies for the first time in France. It has a capacity of up to 644 passengers.

[HarryH]

Firstly, iamnotamemberofekmanagmentindisguise.
I work for a major express carrier who is also making a ton of profit. Unfortunately, my lot do not share 1$ of it's profits with its employees in the same generous way as EK does and I have to say that I am pretty damn envious of you guys - whether you get 4-weeks, 20-days or whatever it is. I would certainly like to 'discover' that sort of bonus in my pay just once. Gissajob!

[glideslope86]

right harrym

eh guys from Emirates, please stop complaining about your...profit share or whatever....you probably have in the gulf one of the best conditions..... i think in a company like Qatar airways you will never be able to survive...!
cheers:ok:

[Gilligan]

Hey maybe next year, if EK breaks its profit record even further they will be asking for a profit share contributuion from us..:uhoh:

[RINGAdingding]

Let me inform all of you categorically that after tonight i still love my profession and the fact i am still able to knock a 100kgs or two off the calculated flight plan fuel or a few minutes off the flight time by continually seeking an economical and profficient way to operate my aircraft NOT to save the company any dosh but to satisfy myself that i have operated a flight to the best of my proffesional ability still satisfies me and motivates me to do better!!

BUT i feel this has been taken advantage of (with no remorse i might add) by management who have great aspirations to better themselves,that target airlines as an easy way to make their CVs look superior simply because they have heard about the professionalism of pilots and can thus ride the backs of our desire for excellence to achieve their own self centred,self serving interests and at the same time be able to profess that they have been able to control costs by not giving us any pay rises comensurate with our TRUE WORTH!!!!

But let me tell you , tonight i have been down the pub (yes we do drink!! contrary to rostering opinion who believe an 8 am call on a day off asking you to work , and you telling them you have been drinking then them commenting that it is 8am and why are you drinking at that time!!) Three of us struck up a conversation with a couple of gentry from the southern hemisphere, they were contractors now working in dubai for twelve months, contracted to fix the fences around all dubai prisons property. As the conversation continues (as it normally does) he asked me my salary, i cordially responded with about 6000USD per month, he looked at me with disbelief,nudged his mate who was sucking popcorn through his missing tooth cavity,and they both started laughing!!! I kid you not Laughing at ME!!!! They then responded with i thought you guys got paid "HEAPS" I responded with what do you mean?? They said "we thought you guys were up there with the lawyers and the doctors" I said "we were 15 years ago,now it is a different world" they still looked at us as if we were taking the P:mad: ss!! I said OK OK what are you earning then, the guy with the popcorn fixation splutters 2200USD per week we will NOT accept anything less!!!!!!!

We had a long conversation throughout the night and they continually kept saying" they could not believe it!!!!"" believe it !" i kept saying."So how has this happened??" no response from me COZ i have no idea how! then here is the funny part they were short of a couple of contractors to cover the work rotation for next month and asked if we wanted some extra cash (with 8 days off per month , i dont think so) but get this i would be able to match my salary if i was able to take the time out on my 8 days to "help them out" But my health means more im afraid!!!!

How has our esteemed,demanding,intellectual,exacting,profession fallen to such depths?? Maybe i have answered that question with my opening statement. But one thing is for certain theses guys we spoke to tonight were in NO DOUBT about their TRUE WORTH!! and totally WE DONT TAKE S%%T ATTITUDE!!!!

Keep discovering
:ok:

[Check 'Six']

Now that to me sounds like an adult. Not like some others, proclaiming themselves as such! More like X rated adults, is what I had in mind for them.

Ringading, I am with you brother and understand your message loud and clear!

99.9% of us pilots, are pro's in what we do! And how we go about our business.

Well posted!!

Check Six.

[MR8]

RingaDingDing,

You are completely right... The problem with us guys (that's pilots in general) is that we like what we're doing, and we accept to much sh*t from people who are there just for the money. For most of us, flying is still a passion, even though we moan and bitch the whole time, we actually enjoy flying a nice approach and making that smooth landing.. And I completely agree that most of us try our best for our own satisfaction rather then just sit back and watch things happen..
But having stated the problem, do you have a solution? The managers who screw us have all been around long enough to make the same diagnosis, and the only thing they have to do is sit back, relax and enjoy us taking all their cr*p. They know that a group of pilots won't do anything, unless we are officialy represented by an organisation or a person who can express our grieves without being shot at - read **ALPA. I expect that DXB will issue snowtams before that will ever happen...
Loved your post though.. If only I lived closer to Al Badaa', I could work for those guys during all the reserves I got in stead of days off... I would at least be paid for duty then..

[Believe Brother]

soompak, yes, I think lots of us understand what ringa is saying. Put simply, after spending enormous amounts of money to become a pilot, and working years to get to the 'dream' airline, we get paid 70% of what an individual who fixes fences gets (in the same location).

Ringa, I think you did answer everything in the first sentences. I hope wannabes read this and understand where the profession is going.

[Dirigible]

Nice work if you can get it, the sad fact is that the majority of the menial work done in Dubai is by third world nationals who are paid a pittance, housed in labour camps, have passports confiscated and are often not paid on time, if at all for months. Every day there are fresh stories of abuse, in the local press, by employers. Good luck to the blokes who are able to make it pay, the local practice of paying according to nationality would be illegal in the civilised world. Corruption runs deep at all levels(as seen by the abrupt resignation of the regulator at the new DIFC) and by the common practice of insider trading on the local markets (closed to foreigners apart from a few stocks). The property boom has a lot to do with money laundering and as we so well know at EK the workers have no representation or rights. A lady can get locked up for 3 weeks without a hearing for having prescription Codeine in her urine, and a maid flogged and deported for an illicit liaison whereas prostitution is ripe and the biggest knocking shop in the Middle East is a short taxi ride away. I may be cynical and disenchanted, but in the relatively short time I have been here this is the sorry impression I have...

[guybrush]

Ringsading, although I am not a pilot, I must question the events you said happened at the pub. My understanding is that it is "unprofessional" to discuss salaries. I do not mean to offend you and I have no interntion of doing so, but I was rather surprised to read that you actually said to the guys what your salary is. Many people would refrain from answering such a question. And for a good reason too: it avoids friction beween people. (And what were you doing drinking at 8am??!!:p)

And really, you shouldn't let people think you're great because you are paid this or that, but because you are a pilot. You should be proud of that (I'm sure you are though). Show the pride and show that you are not willing to let people belittle you in any manner.

Dirigible, from what I hear from friends/family who have been in the Gulf, this really is the case. But to be fair I will have to wait till I get the chance to live in the Gulf to get a good view of how Khaliji people are really like.

[soompak]

Believe Brother,
Many thanks for the clarification, however, is Emirates pilots are paid less than their contract or expection is too high !

[BYMONEK]

Dirigible

Very perceptive,very sad and alas,very true!

good post.

[ratpoison]

Dirigible,

Beautiful, just bloody beautiful.
If I may correct you my good man, the poor female tourist has actually been locked up for 6 weeks. What a top part of the world, then again " The World is putting Dubai on the map".
Yeah right.

Your long lost cousin,

Rat

[Desert Nomad]

Did any of you actually attend the briefing on Wednesday? You were welcome to attend and could have stuck your hand up and asked the question as to why you felt that a pay rise was merited. From what I believe HH and the Chairman were expecting the question but nobody had the balls to front up when the best opportunity presented itself.

If you don't like it vote with your feet and keep on walking!

[Believe Brother]

Nomad, at the famous meeting in Oct 2000 the pay question was asked of MF and TC. The answers then were baseless rhetoric. One of the more senior captains ended up having to cool his heels after expressing frustration with the answers. Do you expect that anybody is going to risk a disciplinary hearing, with loss of two years profit share, by asking that question in front of the world's press? And we all know what the answer would be - precisely what you have written in your post, though one would hope that the bosses would not be quite so blunt!

[Desert Nomad]

Certainly not local, perhaps after having been here for so bloody long the way I write is becoming a bit more native. I was there, and is open I believe to all Grade 9s and above in the office functions of EK and captains. Not just locals, in fact very few of them there.

BB, there are a number of captains posting on this site that their CVs are out there and they are off. They have nothing to loose, so why not stir it up a bit and ask a few contentious questions. The press briefing is before the staff one so they've all bug@ered off to the pub by ours anyway.

SS, I'm reasonably happy with my Ts & Cs, like everyone else I would love an increase in salary.

It was the usual questions and nothing argumentative came up. My point was that the pilots seem to be the most vocal of all the staff (you at least have a forum like this) on this is issue and as many say they will be voting with their feet it was an opportunity to state their grievances.

Many of the locals in EK are just as unhappy as everyone else with current salaries. All their friends in the government got 25% pay rises. Whether there will be something for the locals only who know.

[Global Nomad]

Desert Nomad

There appears to be more in common than just our user names.

You are right on the money with your initial and rebuttal posts.

A short reply to some other less salubrious comments

1) A bonus is just that.

2) Where did this convoluted idea of 4 weeks = 20 days come from? Another misnomer.

3) Who wants to build prison fences anyway.

4) Bothered about your conditions and on the way? Goodbye.

[Quod Boy]

Desert Nomad,

Are you a pilot,within EK?

If so,I think your suggestion is naive in the extreme.

Do you seriously believe,there would be an honest answer,to a serious relevant question,concerning T&Cs,pay,FTL etc etc with NO retribution??

I suggest to you,whilst we are vocal,this forum is virtually the only outlet for all of us to do so.To express your views,no matter how legitimate or correct,in the presence of the "leadership" would be the equivalent of driving the wrong way down the Sheik Z highway with your eyes closed.

Actually come to think of it,even the correct way.

Off to the pub.QB

[donpizmeov]

Desert Nomad is a sales manager. Not that there is anything wrong with that!
Don

[Gillegan]

Global Nomad wrote:
"A short reply to some other less salubrious comments

1) A bonus is just that."

I actually agree with you but two years ago, our dearly departed HOFO wrote to us stating that our 3% + 2% + profit share actually added up to a generous 12.5% pay rise over the previous year.

Employing the same logic (the company's, not mine), we have actually taken a pay cut over the previous year. That during a time that the company "is making record profits" and even the government is admitting that the rising cost of living deserves some recompense.

At the end of the day, our compensation should be determined by supply and demand. What has annoyed many of us is that when the standard Emirates package for pilots was not enough to attract Direct Entry Captains, (a sign that they are not paying "market rates") they raised the package for new captains and completely ignored those of us who have been loyal employees here for a number of years. When we voiced our dismay, we were told that we were lazy and didn't deserve what we were already getting. Next, the company imposed a unilateral change in our terms and conditions stating that it was a cost neutral adjustment. I don't know too many people for whom it has not been a pay reduction. This on top of an imposed increase in productivity of questionable legality and with obvious safety implications.

At every airline that I have ever worked at, there has been some resentment of flight crew, some of which, we might even have brought on ourselves. What I have never seen before is a company that so indulges that resentment through its policies and management (or lack thereof). In the end, if the company does not do something to address these issues, then over time people will leave. They have begun to leave much sooner than I would have thought and barring any change, that will continue. Additionally, spaces in new hire classes are going unfilled. With airplanes coming, Emirates is going to have to weigh up the costs of continuing as before versus making some changes.

The really bizarre part of all of this is that for years, the company seemed to recognize those intangible issues that cost little but generated good will and kept people coming. They extracted their pound of flesh but not to the ridiculous lengths that we have seen recently. If someone flew his allotted 85 hours and was able to squeeze a few days off in here or there, well that was okay. Now, there is such a frenzy to cut costs, that common sense has been thrown out of the window. Managers are purely worried about their own budgets with little regard to the impact on the company overall. As long as they save Dh 5, they don't care if their action actually costs the company 10. As long as it comes out of someone else's budget. This whole time factoring fiasco has the potential to cost this company a lot more than it initially saved.

As far as your remark that if we don't like it we should leave. Don't worry, that's exactly what will happen, but it won't happen overnight. Most of us will watch developments, float our CV's and when the right job comes along, will weigh it up against what we have here and make a business decision. One thing that I can tell you is that the company has forfeit any loyalty that might be entered into that equation. Only time will tell if they have been needlessly careless or shrewd businessmen.

[Saltaire]

Enjoyed that read- well said,

I also believe that anything less than a 10% raise ( 3+7 % ), would effectively be a pay reduction with the current levels of inflation. The continued escalation is prices is a certainty, and we need to keep pace.

[soompak]

Hi guys,

I don't know why you are missing the issue or combining the
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EK Profit Share
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
with the salary increase.

Usually, Emirates Chairman's briefing is to inform all EK grop managers and above (Pilots respectfully included) of the EK financial L&P account and to tell you of the bonus that company has kindly granted to staff.

[quarefellah]

Hi,
What an erudite and intriguing observation. Certainly the attitudes you describe are prevalent in this society. I'll say it whilst others think it but have you checked the 'other' date on the front page of the Gulf News???? ;)

[Check 'Six']

I would like to see this management of ours run a vote on how many pilots are satisfied with the "package" that some of our own are seemingly so happy with?

It can naturally be anonymous.

I wonder if they would even dare venture into something like that?

Check 'Six'

[Desert Nomad]

QB,

No not a pilot as Don pointed out. Not sure what his point was but if he has an issue would be nice if he came out and said it.

My thought was that someone who has handed in their notice or knows that they will certainly hand in their notice couldhave got up and spoken on his own behalf and that of others. That person would certainly have nothing to loose. While at the same time it would open the eyes of the rest of general management within EK so that they could also start trying to put pressure on their senior managers to do something.

If you want better T&Cs it wont be just across the cockpit crew it would be across the whole of the EK group. The cost of putting an additional 15% on to everyones salaries. That's 25,000 staff would cost a fortune and one small and all be it important group isn't going to justify it. You need to engage with other areas of EK and not just keep your own little clique. No point in alienating yourselves when others have the ability and desire to try and help. There is a knock on effect for changes in every department. If pilots start to leave there's a huge impact. And yes Don, if T&C's are not good for even the sales teams they will eave and you will get a low quality sales force which means you get fewer bums on seats and your T&Cs will never improve. You're not the only one out there that makes an airline work you know...

[donpizmeov]

Calm down tiger. No issue at all. Hence the "not that there is anything wrong with that" comment. Don't tell me that EK T&Cs have you on edge as well?
Don

[trynottoguess]

Latest info is that the T+Cs are to be ammended in the near future and we will all have lovely blue coloured shirts to wear to go with it!:)

[Dropp the Pilot]

Now here's a first, me siding with Don'meov:

Desert Nomad says:

"improved T&Cs wont be just across the cockpit crew it would be across the whole of the EK group"

That's patently wrong

If you'll just take a quick peek at the Flight International careers section you will find that where there had been one or two airlines looking for captains each week there were eighteen in the last week alone. One in particular I note is now offering 25% more than they were less than half a year ago.

If you can point us to a site where there are desperation-tinged advertisements for airline sales staff and cabin cleaners at 25% wage premiums with signing bonuses, you might bring us on side to your "across the the whole of EK group" dream....
:cool:

[Desert Nomad]

Don,

My apologies to you. I just assumed, obviously wrongly, that the comment was sarcastic and reacted. The morale across every department is particularly low. Haven't heard anything other than a moan and groan so far today. :(

Dropp,

The point I was trying to say was that if there is to be a pay rise it would be across the group. In terms of sales jobs there are many other organisations out there that offer better T&C's than here. For one thing this is the only place I know of that do NOT incentivise sales staff with commissions. But a bit like you guys we love the work we do and try to be as professional as we can and support the organisation that was and still could be very supportive of all staff. Maybe it will take something drastic for them to wake up and review things, I hope not...

[Ghostflyer]

DN,

You are right in that an across the board pay increase would be a significant extra expense. However, EK's personnel costs are extremely low compared to the industry average. Our employees cost us about 17.5% of the airlines total operating costs. Even a 15% increase would only boost the employee costs to around 20% which would still be considerably less than say BA or even SIA!

Ghost:ok:

[Global Nomad]

Ghost

...and that's one of the reasons why Emirates post such respectable profits....


DN

Don's not being sarcastic, his intentions are perfectly legitimate so it's probably a breeding thing I suspect.

This thread is on the precipice of becoming sensible. Civility at last?

[Cerberus]

Globey,

SIA manage to make a profit and even BA too. Bottom line is that the profit for this year has gone up, whilst the T&Cs have gone down. AAR said it was cost neutral, and it was.....to the company. Sadly not to the crews! I for one have contributed 40% to my own profit share in the last 5 months due to the changed O/T targets. If it had been a year since the introduction of the new T&Cs, I would have ended up with effectively no profit share due to loss of overtime compared to last year. :{

Cerberus

[mini cooper]

How long does it take for someone maybe local or otherwise in the hierachy of management to realise that EK has made shed loads of money,the profits are up, new routes going well, we're taking over Asia, Europe and Australasia, so things look great, but also to notice that morale is down, pay is going down in relation to costs IE inflation in Dubai and generally people in the airline are p*ssed off.

I've resigned myself to the fact that as long as there is sand in the desert nothing wil change at EK. Best I hunker down, keep my head below the parapet and work to rule, bid for max days off and do as little as possible.

Bye for now off to work, max hours as usual, few days off, EK keep discovering ( the SH*T)

:suspect: :suspect: :suspect:

[Desert Nomad]

It is likely that any changes in salary will be announced within the next weeks. Traditionally, and I forget this at briefing time, salary adjustments are handed out in May and become effective in June salary.

There is still a chance that there will be a rise, all be it a very slim chance...

[Quod Boy]

In that case DN,I think the slide will continue.

2 more pilots quit today,they need to be replaced,trained,as do their replacements.That takes time, and money.

Oh,and then we need to hire more,to meet the expansion so i think a small pay correction will not address why this state exists in the first place.

Off to the pub QB:cool: ;)

[V/S]

Just wondering,

How much was the bonus this year and last year?

[critical winge]

Last year after profits we had a bonus, sorry share of the profit share of 10 weeks.

This year the company made RECORD PROFITS, as math(s) would heve it we got 4 weeks.

I'm glad I don't go to the university of UAE MATH(s)>:ugh:

[Shake]

So, if we keep the trend going next years share will be 'minus' 2 weeks. They'll have to take it out of my pay and I'll owe them the rest. :sad:

[bigmountain]

Just wondering if its too early to post a question on the chances of a profit share at Emirates . I know we still have about 3 and some months to go before the accountants do the numbers. If there are ; then can we have a guess or confirmed amount ( from those close to "u no ho" ) of how much or how little can the staff expect?

BM

[SecurID]

Just heard first hand, we're looking at 28 weeks!!! :D

....but then I woke up. We're on target, so that means 2 definately. But this next six months is usually when the profits start increasing, so we'll probably get around 2-4 weeks. Can't remember the target set for this year, but I have a feeling that they did not raise it from last year, anyone have any idea what the target is?

[ratpoison]

Yeah, Keep Recovering and work harder you "lazy" and the latest "inconsiderate" Pilot's. :p

[BigGeordie]

The target is the same as last year, and the first half profits were slightly up, so if that continues I would have thought about 4-5 weeks. It depends on a whole load of factors such as the price of fuel or an outbreak of bird flu in Asia. It is probably a bit too early to start speculating.

[Desert Whine]

28 weeksIt probably would be if the entire "profit" were shared.

Luckily there is still four or five months for the books to be fiddled so we end up with a nice round, lower figure. Not so little that anyone loses faces but not so high that too much cash is "given away".

Yes it is a bit early yet but maybe BM has been shopping at Spinney's and playing golf at Monty, Abu Dhabi, Ranches, Al Bhadia.... with Kokkos! Not to mention fine dining with that fcukwit TM2.

You feeling the pinch, BM??? ;)

[critical winge]

Not sure but I think the target remained at 2.5Bn AED. Then its profit, divide by 5 (20%), shared out. Now a greater profit means a lower payout. When the target was 1.75Bn AED = 10 weeks, last year 2.5Bn AED = 4 weeks. Record first half profits this year and the profitable half of the year to go AND a stationary taget .INCREASED PROFIT = LOWER PAYOUT = 2 WEEKS, from the proven formula. Its calculated under the FTLs principle, except there are many more variations applied here.

Hope that helped.

CW

[BigGeordie]

So according to Critical Winge, if the profit continues to go up we will have to give the company money. Sounds about right.

[SecurID]

Yep, that's about it. Been here a few years and I now pay to come to work! ;)

[bigmountain]

In continuation of the Profit share thread. It seems that EK should benefit from the 80% increase in the ( two way) seats capacity to India .The current figures are 10,000 seats per week and as per the accord with UAE and Indian civil aviation officials it will go up to 18000 seats per week. With the increased capacity of the 777s I'm sure Emirates will try and optimize its fleet scheduling to improve its yields on the SUBCONTINENT routes by replacing its airbuses with the higher capacity /low operati ng cost 777s. which usually means increased profit share.

Refer to Khaleej times business section 8th dec 2005

BM
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/business/2005/December/business_December145.xml&section=business&col=[/URL]

[CAYNINE]

You poor cynical lads.......

The stinking red rat of the south would give you $500 worth of shares if you were a good boy......oh yes and you couldn't sell them for three years!!!

We all have to wait and see hey, but, at least its something to try and use to stay ahead of the cost of living in DXB.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

with so many new jobs out there , well paying and all, the profit share is irrelevent ..
I wish i could sell mine cause i dont think ill be here to collect it .........:ok:

[Captn B'Ollocks]

Keep Discovering what it's like to be taken advantage of, Fly Emirates

[critical winge]

Maaaany RuMours of a "last year profit share payout", so that next pay increase can be offset by they profit share pot. Will of course be an attempt to fool/recruit more people in. A pay increase will only just start to bring the salary up to a base LH pilot salary, even 20%.

8 wks this year?, would like to see them give a low payout and see that nobody leaves, as all employees are only here to help build/finance their city construction. Shouldn't the Flight International Ads say Mercenary wanted, instead of DEC (or foolish F/O). Ah, no, I forgot, Pilots are only in flying for the love of it and would do the job for nothing (counters assume). Whereas a Mercenary of course has the intelligence to know that he will get a good days pay for a good days work, or he wouldn't go to work!:cool:

[ruserious]

Aaahhh the profit share scam, designed by senior managers for the benefit of .... Senior Managers.
As long as VP get 2x profit share and SVP's get 4-5X than there will never be any pressure for pay rises.
Apart from that if you give everyone a pay rise, the next year you will find it just a little more difficult to announce a record profit share, simple really.
Lets face it if you can't be smug about winning awards any longer, yo can at least feel extra smug about announcing record profits.

[Fish]

Yes, it's that time of year again! And I just can't resist...

My prediction is:

6 weeks profit share
3% increment awarded
5% increase in salary scales
5% increase in utilities allowance

[pintofstella]

Fish, dream on. according to AS he could give us a pay cut due to pay cuts in the usa so as to prevent us climbing up ther bull s@@t salary comparison ladder.Even with those figures you mentioned it still equals a pay cut baring in mind inflation is in double figures.
KEEP DISCVERING NEW JOBS ELSEWHERE

[Desert Nomad]

The last rumour I heard from pretty reliable source is that it will be 2 to 3 weeks and that's it because the"fuel costs are really hurting" :eek:

Would be nice to see another increase in the utilities allowance as the scum landlords are able to increase their rent on us by 15% :{ How on earth is anyone seriously expected to work, enjoy a reasonable standard of living and save some money? How foolish of me to forget, nobody gives a toss do they!?

[Mack Tuck]

The old utilities allowance scam. Announce a 10% increase in utilities as part of the annual pay rise; great? not! A tiny percentage of pilots have taken the allowance so these guys get a pay rise to fund their mortgage whilst the rest of us cant afford to take the allowance as house prices have risen so far already it would need a 100% increase to make us even consider buying a house (that will leak when it rains).
An increase in utilities should be to entice more guys to take it; there is no need to increase it for those already receiving it; their costs havent risen.

[Zomp]

mac,
guess you joined a bit too late, you should have read pprune before you came over to the pit.

[BaghDaddy.]

"last year profit share payout"........next pay increase can be offset by they profit share pot. .........would like to see them give a low payout and see that nobody leaves, as all employees are only here to help build/finance their city construction. :cool:I think the third line is employing the use of sarcasm but I can't get my head around the first part....:confused: because the"fuel costs are really hurtingWhat about the fuel surcharge on tickets? (Even staff sub-load at same amount) That should be the last we hear about fuel costs, shouldn't it?An increase in utilities should be to entice more guys to take it; there is no need to increase it for those already receiving it; their costs havent risenAn increase in utilities should be for spending on rent, nothing else. It is not an inducement. If rents go up and they want to pay pilots' rent, the allowance needs to go up. Simple.the rest of us cant afford to take the allowance as house prices have risen so far already it would need a 100% increase to make us even consider buying a houseSpend it on rent then. At your own peril, though. For the most part, anyone contemplating doing their own rental thing here is nuts.

I might be wrong but I don't think the allowance was ever meant to be for paying off a mortgage if for no other reason than that the cash effectively leaves the closed system corporation that is Dubai.

Being of greedy nature, I'd rather see them introduce a Child Education Offset Allowance of 50% of whatever they're paying for the children of other pilots. This might induce me not to go producing bastards whose education they have to pay for!! (At home, of course, I obey the rules on that sort of thing here.)

[RINGAdingding]

Well this will get peoples blood pumping!!

Now strong talk that we will not be getting profit share at all this years due to fuel prices!!

And it is well justified because the worlds voted number 1 airline Cathay pacific also did not pay any profit share even though they made good profits due to the same EXCUSE!!

We will however be receiving an unwarrantied 10 percent payrise AGAINST MARKET averages whereby pilots are actually losing jobs!!And ZERO on the housing allowance!!:{ :{

So COP THAT!!!

KEEP RECOVERING:ok:

[616200]

Are the same people that last year said we were getting 20% pay increase..:confused:

[BBJ King]

How can they justify no profitshare when the target is the same as last year and profit is up by 20%?

And the way things are they will "have" to announce another year of record profit. (saving face and all that)

My guess: Same as last year. Payrise, the usual 3% + a couple because they are so nice.

[Payscale]

It will all be revealed soon enough!!
Between 2-10 weeks profit share
Between 0-15000 on the UA.

Ballpark figure :hmm:

[145qrh]

Hey if we are going ballpark then I'll have a go too....

0-12 wks profit share
0-15000 Ha ....dont care
0-15% pay rise
0 or 1 more ALT
May or may not be a change in class of travel on ALT..

Don't care, all will be revealed to the soon to be disappointed masses soon enough.

[CAYNINE]

Mac,

Your obviously a Captain in a nice cozy villa..... think a minute about the poor F/O sods that are stuck in apartments and have no joy with the accom department.

It's a stupid thing to say that those that chose to take the allowance should be exempted from an increase.... what ***** planet are you from??

[Tail Rota]

my Guess

4 weeks...I hope:(

No Pay increase there is one thousand Delta guys being interviewed as we read and they need our profit share to up the offer in salaries to get them to come. :{

1500 UA is still not enough...... who can predict how high rents and utilities will be in the next 12 months......villas in my area of town rent from 150K -180K and thats very average....F/O gets 95K and Capt 115K. Still short on todays prices by about 60k for capt and 85k for F/O and thast just the rent.....I hear utilities run at about 3k per month so thats another 36k on top.:mad:

The fuel surchage has more than taken care of the fuel prices....dont be sucked into that one.

TR

[Desert Nomad]

My good lord, what kind of villas do you all expect? This is where we all get so very spoilt here in the big sand pit. The majority of people back in the UK would never be able to afford to live in the style of accommodation that they do here.

You think we should be getting 180k per year for a villa. Look around Dubai and you can find plenty of nice villas for around 120k or less. You do not need to be in Jumeirah, Umm Suqueim you know. They may be handy but it's not really that difficult to get around town.

Who spends 3k a month on utilities. Get a well dug in the garden and don't leave the AC on 24hrs a day.

[Tail Rota]

you are probably right desert nomad. but in and around my area thats the rents. and if its cheaper else where its only a matter of time until the landlords up their prices to account for their costs of living in Dubai.

I am in company accomodation and its very comfortable thanks. However the UA is not enough for those who have chosen to take it. Perhaps 3 or even 5 years ago it was very generous....now its not and simply hasnt kept up with the prices of housing or the rent hikes that have been going on over last 12 - 18 months.

EK should do something to make up for the rising costs of living here. Lets face it without pilots and cabin crew there would be no Emirates Airline. so why do they make it so difficult to justify staying here and working.

Money talks and if they paid money ...most people would see that as a sweetner to put up with all the hassels of being here and it would also act as a wee honey pot for those thinking of coming....DEC's or new Co's.

My guess is if there is a profitshare and payrise like last year ....... the pilot list at EK will deminish rapidly over the 6 months following the May announcement.

[CAYNINE]

Exactly DN.... 97k (it's actually 103) is still 17 short.

By your own admission that is still not enough to rent a "nice" villa in an area outside Jameirah, Umm Suqueim.

[Mack Tuck]

K9,
Accomm allowance is merely a method of increasing the lot of a minority and expanding the gap between those that get and those that choose not to. The majority of guys who took the allowance have purchased and other than possible interest rate hikes their outgoings (mortgage-wise) are known.
My opinion is that an increase in housing allowance will enable the current home owners to pay their mortgages off quicker (a pay rise) whilst I get nothing. This creates different pay scales for those doing the same job which is what I object to.
Single or childless F/Os know they will likely get an apartment on joining and they are given an option to change to a villa on upgrade. Nothing has changed.

[BaghDaddy.]

Mack, you can always have some kids and milk the education allowance. This will even up the remuneration scales for you..

The “majority of people in the UK” have the added bonus of living in their homeland. This makes a big difference to many people.

The whole point is to be spoilt in the middle east. Why else would anyone come here? I don’t understand why any sane person would happily come to the sandpit just to enjoy the same conditions they had back in the civilised World.

The only explanation for it is these few are either on drugs or still in the wonderful, starry-eyed honeymoon period.

The attitude of supplication regarding rogerings is simply beyond me.

And anyway, to compare the UK with this place is a little unbalanced as weather is a big factor for many Brits where it might not be for anyone else.

[CAYNINE]

Mac you've lost me....

You are getting the equivalent if not more value than the guys that have rented, rented because they have no option than to do that. ie they don't have the cash available to put the deposit down on a place to buy.

Those that did buy stuck their necks out in a very uncertain market brought cash in from o/s either from selling their homes or divesting investments, and have done well....good on them. (at least their not making the fat landlords fatter)

Why if it sticks in your throat so much don't you buy???

I am at a loss to where your resentment comes from.

Just for a moment have you ever contemplated living in UP or 21st??? You would take any oportunity that came your way to get some space after that.

[330 heavy]

Tail Rota writes:"No Pay increase there is one thousand Delta guys being interviewed as we read and they need our profit share to up the offer in salaries to get them to come."


Gentelmen,

While I don't doubt that some of our profit share would be used to entice guys to join, I SERIOUSLY doubt that EK will be successful in luring more than 5-10 guys from the left seat at Delta to join as D.E.C.s here. ( I would think that maybe 1 or 2 might be closer to reality) It is possible that a number of furloughed F/Os could be enticed to come here. The job fair that EK is attending in ATL and LAX, while meant to target DL, NWA, and possibly UAL pilots will, more than likely, attract the underpaid and overworked freight dogs from the states: most of whom are narrow-body types that are much less qualified than a large percentage of EK F/Os. I would also be very surprised if more than 30 or 40 Americans ( Capts. and F/Os combined ) will make the move to EK at this time.

I welcome any F/Os who might want to cast their lot here but I cannot support the hiring of this round of D.E.C.s. The first group of guys that joined ( for the most part ) were the necessary result of a wind-fall of A343s that were not planned. The D.E.C.s that are being sought-after now have been planned for since the 1st big 777 order. When TCK made the statement that no person on the pilot list would be adversly affected by D.E.C.s, it was just an out and out lie. D.E.C.s have been planned for (IMHO) at least 2 years.

Sorry to digress from the orginal intent of this post but I think that there is a misconception that a lot of North American types (DL, NWA,UAL, US Airways etc.) will jump at the chance to fly a wide body for EK. Even after all the pay cuts and deterioration of contracts in the U.S., the EK package is at best a lateral move for a narrow-body Captain from most U.S. carriers----even given a sizable profit share and some type of payrise ( HA HA HA HA HA.....), the reality is that most U.S. guys will probably have to stay at their present companes until age 60 in order to secure their retirements.( or what's left of them ):{ This does not bode well for EK recruiting.:ok:

Good luck to us all

330

[airbus757]

330 heavy says...

I welcome any F/Os who might want to cast their lot here but I cannot support the hiring of this round of D.E.C.s.

I don't quite follow what you are saying here. Do you actually think the company or a DEC cares if you "support" this round of DECs. Exactly who do you think you are?

7

[IXNAT]

Tail Rota writes:"No Pay increase there is one thousand Delta guys being interviewed as we read and they need our profit share to up the offer in salaries to get them to come."


Gentelmen,

While I don't doubt that some of our profit share would be used to entice guys to join, I SERIOUSLY doubt that EK will be successful in luring more than 5-10 guys from the left seat at Delta to join as D.E.C.s here. ( I would think that maybe 1 or 2 might be closer to reality) It is possible that a number of furloughed F/Os could be enticed to come here. The job fair that EK is attending in ATL and LAX, while meant to target DL, NWA, and possibly UAL pilots will, more than likely, attract the underpaid and overworked freight dogs from the states: most of whom are narrow-body types that are much less qualified than a large percentage of EK F/Os. I would also be very surprised if more than 30 or 40 Americans ( Capts. and F/Os combined ) will make the move to EK at this time.

Sorry to digress from the orginal intent of this post but I think that there is a misconception that a lot of North American types (DL, NWA,UAL, US Airways etc.) will jump at the chance to fly a wide body for EK. Even after all the pay cuts and deterioration of contracts in the U.S., the EK package is at best a lateral move for a narrow-body Captain from most U.S. carriers----even given a sizable profit share and some type of payrise ( HA HA HA HA HA.....), the reality is that most U.S. guys will probably have to stay at their present companes until age 60 in order to secure their retirements.( or what's left of them ):{ This does not bode well for EK recruiting.:ok:

Good luck to us all

330

I believe you may be very mistaken. There are probably close to 1000 early retired wide-body captains at Delta that have retired in the last 18 months. These folks left with some of their retirement and have not found flying jobs that make close to US$100K a year. Living in Dubai? Many have kids out of the house and do not have strong ties to keep them in the US. So standby for some major incoming DEC's. Same goes for UAL and others. Lots of experience out there with very little job prospects for 52 year olds. Say what you will about EK and how miserable it is, if one were to look at web boards at these US legacy carriers, you would see almost word for word some of the same complaining. And on those web boards, it is always the same guys doing the complaining. Is it the same at EK? I have no dog in this fight, just making some observations.
IXNAT

[donpizmeov]

Is that you Mr Ed?

[330 heavy]

:ok: A757 says: "I don't quite follow what you are saying here. Do you actually think the company or a DEC cares if you "support" this round of DECs. Exactly who do you think you are?"

I know who I am. Who do you think I am? I am a pilot who supports the asperations of any pilot who wants to come to work for EK as an F/O. I will work with said pilot and help them in any way I can---just as others have helped me throughout my entire career. I cannot, nor will I support or help any person who pursues a job as a D.E.C. at the expense of a currently qualified F/O and effectively delays or helps to deny that F/O the left seat. I very much doubt the company gives a rip about what I think as they have not asked my opinion in the matter. Do you know anyone on the line here that the company has sought out their opinion? Have they asked yours? Please don't try to read more into my statements than is intended. I'm simply saying that D.E.C.s, sought under the current hiring drive, are not justified and will not find favor among the pilots already on the list here at EK. They will certainly NOT be on my list of drinking buddies!!!

And don, neigh,neigh,neigh, my name is not Mr. Ed

INAX writes"I believe you may be very mistaken. There are probably close to 1000 early retired wide-body captains at Delta that have retired in the last 18 months"

The number that have taken early retirement in the last 18 months and are UNDER 56 YEARS OLD is around 150 total give or take a few. (The max age for entry as a D.E.C. is 55 at EK) Of those, I very much doubt more than 5 or 10 would make the move here. This is just my opinion. Under the current bankruptcy laws in the states, when a company is operating under chapter 11 protection, the retirement assets are frozen and can only be released if the judge overseeing said bankruptcy approves. I doubt very much any judge will allow pensions to be paid out until an agreement has been reached between DL and its pilots or the company emerges from chapter 11. ( or the judge could allow DL to cancel its working agreement) As a result, I think guys would be reluctant to leave until they know what is going to happen to the DL pension. This being the case, I doubt the package here--even an "enhanced" one as is rumoured--would cause guys to leave the majors in the states en mass. I think our recruitment department has their work cut out for them.

Good luck to us all.
330:ok:

P.S. This thread was orginally about profit share--sorry to deflect its intent to this degree. ( I'm counting on at least 16 weeks----it'll take at least that to pay off my credit card debt.)

[donpizmeov]

Sorry 330, I meant was IXNAT Mr Ed.

Don

[330 heavy]

Understood:ok:
330

[Gillegan]

Regarding DEC's from the U.S.; I find it interesting that there is the general feeling that only those with a pension to supplement their earnings here or those without schoolage children would find the EK package acceptable. That pretty well sums up the value of the EK package as a whole - not good enough for someone who may actually have to live off it.

[EK Pilot]

I very much doubt the company gives a rip about what I think as they have not asked my opinion in the matter. Do you know anyone on the line here that the company has sought out their opinion? Have they asked yours?

Yes, they did ask me my opinion. Not about DECs, but they asked me whether I would like to have a month of reserve. I said no thanks. The (secret) results say that 66% of us voted for it, despite me still not having found anyone that siad yes please. They also asked my opinion of communications in a questionnaire. I replied and have yet to hear anything of the results. So did they ask me my opinions? Yes. Did they act on the answers? No.

[IXNAT]

INAX writes"I believe you may be very mistaken. There are probably close to 1000 early retired wide-body captains at Delta that have retired in the last 18 months"

The number that have taken early retirement in the last 18 months and are UNDER 56 YEARS OLD is around 150 total give or take a few. (The max age for entry as a D.E.C. is 55 at EK) Of those, I very much doubt more than 5 or 10 would make the move here. This is just my opinion. Under the current bankruptcy laws in the states, when a company is operating under chapter 11 protection, the retirement assets are frozen and can only be released if the judge overseeing said bankruptcy approves. I doubt very much any judge will allow pensions to be paid out until an agreement has been reached between DL and its pilots or the company emerges from chapter 11. ( or the judge could allow DL to cancel its working agreement) As a result, I think guys would be reluctant to leave until they know what is going to happen to the DL pension. This being the case, I doubt the package here--even an "enhanced" one as is rumoured--would cause guys to leave the majors in the states en mass. I think our recruitment department has their work cut out for them.

Good luck to us all.
330:ok:

P.S. This thread was orginally about profit share--sorry to deflect its intent to this degree. ( I'm counting on at least 16 weeks----it'll take at least that to pay off my credit card debt.)[/quote]

Again, let me correct you. Over the last two years close to 1000 Delta wide body captains HAVE retired. Many if not most are under 56. They were able to obtain their lump sums but now much of their monthly annuities are at risk. There are already about a dozen at SIA, some at Icelandic (Air Atlanta) some at MaxJet some at EOS. Even some awaiting slots at RyanAir. So when you state they are not out there, you are mistaken. The only difference I see flying for EK (what is posted here) and flying for the legacies international is living in Dubai. Most if not all of the int'l pilots I have known have flown close to 900 hours-so that's not an issue, many are former military that have spent years in places outside of the states-not an issue, most have flown all over into different time zones (with no controled rest)-not an issue, most have dealt with a management that could give a rat's a** about the same issues brought up here-not an issue. So again, please tell me why you believe there will not be an influx of DECs from DAL, UAL, NWA, Gemini, Polar, Atlas, Tradewinds? It will be interesting to see the numbers in attendance in Atl with the open house. If anyone is interested I will be able to find out.
IXNAT

No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.

[typhoonpilot]

Again, let me correct you. Over the last two years close to 1000 Delta wide body captains HAVE retired. Many if not most are under 56. They were able to obtain their lump sums but now much of their monthly annuities are at risk. There are already about a dozen at SIA, some at Icelandic (Air Atlanta) some at MaxJet some at EOS. Even some awaiting slots at RyanAir. So when you state they are not out there, you are mistaken. The only difference I see flying for EK (what is posted here) and flying for the legacies international is living in Dubai. Most if not all of the int'l pilots I have known have flown close to 900 hours-so that's not an issue, many are former military that have spent years in places outside of the states-not an issue, most have flown all over into different time zones (with no controled rest)-not an issue, most have dealt with a management that could give a rat's a** about the same issues brought up here-not an issue. So again, please tell me why you believe there will not be an influx of DECs from DAL, UAL, NWA, Gemini, Polar, Atlas, Tradewinds? It will be interesting to see the numbers in attendance in Atl with the open house. If anyone is interested I will be able to find out.
IXNAT

No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.


Well, let me jump into this fray and correct you. Delta and Northwest pilots are not the leaders of the American expat pilot bandwagon. They are in fact, the Johnny come latelys. Prior to DAL and NWA having trouble it was USAirways and United along with a few others. USAirways has/had 2000 pilots on furlough, United a similar number. Both airlines have pilots who lost their pensions and saw huge decreases in their salary. Many AA pilots also went out early in order to keep their lump sum. This all since 9-11. In that time we have a grand total of 48 Americans at EK. One was here prior to 9-11, one came when his job at Sri Lankan ( airplanes ) were literally shot to pieces. The other 46 are refugees from the U.S. airline industry. With over 10,000 pilots on furlough that number represents less than one-half of one percent. If we apply that ratio to your 1000 early retired DAL pilots we come up with a grand total of 5. Even if it is double the average since 9-11 that is only 10. My personal estimate from this recruiting trip is about 20 to 30, including F.O.s.


Typhoonpilot

[330 heavy]

IXNAT.
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!

You mention that a number of these retirees are working for SIA, Icelandic, EOS ( how many airplanes do they have) etc. Others are waiting to work for RyanAir. How many pilots are you talking here? 15-20-30 out of 1000 or so.(of which a percentage are too old to qualify for entry to EK) I've yet to see 1 DL retiree here in the middle east as a D.E.C. ( 2 DL guys are at EK as F/Os with 1 more joining in May, again as an F/O, none of whom are retirees). Where are all the other retired U.S pilots that were with US Air, U.A.L., A.T.A., Hawaiian American? They don't seem to be clamouring to get here. Quite a number of those guys have lost the bulk of their retirements and were under 50 years of age. Singapore, the UK, Europe, Asia are all perceived in the U.S. in a much different light than the middle east. Americans think that this a very negative place to be right now. I just don't think that EK will get a large influx of U.S. major airline pilots as D.E.Cs. ( unless they are paid much more than the website suggests and AS has said that this is just not the case;) )

This is not meant to be a battle with you over numbers. It is just one man's opinion (and we we all know what they say about opinions). You say you have no dog in this fight. Well I do and I stand by my assertion that I cannot condone the hiring of D.E.Cs at EK at this juncture and under the current set of circumstances. There are too many qualified F/Os already here who are a known entity and could easily upgrade. Let's sit at the pub some evening. I'll buy you a pint and we can discuss our different opinions :O (unless you are coming here as a D.E.C):yuk:
330:ok:

P.S. Still waiting on that 16 week check!!!

[calcio11]

It is hard to say how many pilots will leave Delta. I am one that is leaving, not as a DEC though. Just a narrow body F.O.. I have had a number of pilots ask me about EK and they are thinking about jumping ship. I haven't heard how the job fair went, when I do I will let you know. The opinions expressed in from both stand points of an influx coming or a trickle are correct. It will be a coin flip for most and no one knows which way they will go.
What separates Delta from the other carriers, was the retirement plan was different. I don't think any of the other carriers in the last few years has had the early retirements we have had.
Fraternally,
calcio11

[IXNAT]

[quote=330 heavy]IXNAT.
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!

Sorry it has been a few days to respond to the above-on the road. You are correct, my numbers were incorrect concerning the Delta pilots. It was actually closer to 2000 retired early from late 2004. My friend did attend the Atlanta EK "job fair". He mentioned that it seemed there were about a total of 100-120 in attendance and a number that had set up sim evals prior. So will there be an influx of these Delta early retirees? My friend could not get into the simulator in the three days they were there due to the fact that they were all full up. So there you go, there seems to be quite a bit of interest if nothinig else. Oh yes, he mentioned that there were a few individuals from Canada and Northwest doing the evaluation. Hope this has been helpful.
IXNAT

[EK Pilot]

Would you be happy if it was four? Five? Six? What are you seriously expecting?
What if it is only two weeks?

[BBJ King]

Last year was "4 weeks". The target is the same and profit is up by ...... a lot, so anything less would be a huge dissapointment.
Standing by to be dissapointed..... again....

[SecurID]

What are you seriously expecting?


6 weeks. Minimum!

[EKPrisoner]

2 weeks only dont forget the rising cost of accommodation as well as fuel.
If Ek had a brain they would build there own city and save long term , but its easier to rip off the ex-loyal workforce.

[Cerberus]

15 weeks profit share, 50% pay rise and 200k housing allowance. 60hrs/month and a guaranteed 100 days leave per year.

My dad always told me to look for the golf ball where I wanted to find it first. Sadly I am about to play 3 off the tee again.

Cerberus:eek:

[maddog62]

6 weeks :suspect:

mad

[ruserious]

My Prediction,
6 Weeks, 7% raise, 3% increment.
JUST enough lubrication to justify next years bu**eration

[145qrh]

Whats the difference between a penis and a bonus..????








You wife will always blow your bonus...:mad: :mad:

[thebusman]

excellent one 145...;) :ok:

[616200]

So today is the end of the financial year...
Any "reliable source" want to come up with some number about the Share??:{

[GreenOnGo]

Come on guys. Give us an idea of what you expect. When is it usually announced officially? Watching with great interest.

[ruserious]

anyone that thinks they know, until the official announcement, is talking bo**ocks. In all the years of the profit scam, nobody has known until it is officially announced.
By all means guess, but that's all you can do.

[411 B]

Hopefully its all sorted by time the 380 starts operating:eek:

[EKPrisoner]

Did the Pharohs give plundered gold to the slaves rowing their ships, no but they sure whipped their asses.
And the EK boys are really feeling it .......................
Slaves dont get bonusses........................

[330 Man]

Hey 145qrh,
Sometimes it is a premature blowing!

GreenOnGo,
I think the earnings report for the year is scheduled for the 24th, but i am not sure. ( It is sometime during that week) The bonus is announced with the annual earnings report. The 1st half earnings were up almost 20%, and we do not have many empty planes now, so I would think it would be more than last years 4 weeks. Maybe 6? Who the hell knows, but he is not here today.

Regards,

330 Man

[uplock]

Always thought it was a ripp off having contributed to the company coffers and not being able to get the profit share because of this and that.


We are pleased to announce a change in the Profit Share Rules for the 2006-2007 financial year.

Employees who have completed at least six calendar months service in the financial year will now be eligible for a prorated payment calculated for each complete calendar month worked. Recall previously the Profit Share Rules required an employee to be in service for the full 12 months of the financial year to be eligible for payment.

This effectively means:

Employees who joined prior to 1st April 2006 and worked throughout the financial year will be eligible to the full profit share payment.
Employees who join prior to 1st October 2006 and work at least six calendar months in the financial year will receive a prorated profit share payment.

Note, to be eligible for receiving payment of the 2006-2007 profit share, an employee must be in-employment on the date the profit share is actually paid out.

[Saltaire]

How about the rumor of maximum two weeks profit share? :sad:

[White Knight]

Then it wouldn't be called profit SHARE now, would it?

Not heard of a maximum of two weeks at all - where's that coming from?:confused:

[Ghostflyer]

It used to be 6 months to qualify and you got the lot, so still worse off than 5 years ago. One step forward, 2 steps back!:ok:

[BYMONEK]

Sounds like a step in the right direction to me. Pro rata is without doubt a fairer way. There'll still be those that complain though. :ugh:

Now I just need to persuade HR to backdate the policy by about 3 years and i'm sorted!

[Fat Clemenza]

tuesday November 7, 2006

Emirates reported a $323 million net profit for the first half of its fiscal year, widened from $251 million in the year-ago period, on a 30% jump in revenues to $3.67 billion, marking the highest first-half profit in its history.
"The results reflect a strong revenue performance driven by robust passenger and cargo demand, and better yields, which softened the impact of high fuel prices on operating costs," the airline said in a statement.


For the six months ended Sept. 30, passenger revenues rose 31% as passengers carried increased 20% to 8.4 million. Emirates SkyCargo posted a revenue increase of 29% as freight grew 20% to 577,455 tons. The cargo unit's contribution to overall revenues remained steady at 21%.
Fuel costs for the half-year surpassed $1 billion and remained the carrier's biggest expenditure, accounting for 30.7% of total operating costs. "Measures taken by Emirates to remain on target include stringent cost-containment and efficiency drives, but like other airlines, Emirates has been forced to maintain fuel surcharges on tickets, which do not fully cover the escalating costs," it said.


The airline has launched services to 10 new cities since January: Abidjan, Addis Ababa, Bangalore, Beijing, Hamburg, Kolkata, Lilongwe (cargo-only), Nagoya, Thiruvananthapuram and Tunis. Its total network now comprises 87 cities, including four cargo-only destinations.


With 10 747-8Fs recently ordered (ATWOnline, Oct. 10) (http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=6706), the fast-growing carrier now has more than 100 widebody jets with list-price values exceeding a collective $30 billion pending delivery. The current fleet consists of 100 aircraft including 29 A330-200s and 22 777-300ERs.
by Aaron Karp

[ShockWave]

And the point is?......Proffit share!
If only we can all stick it out until then:ugh:

[Marooned]

With precious little investment in their staff it's no wonder that the profits are up on paper... watch though how they tend to reduce the figures around March after 'another difficult and challenging year'.

[violate]

My favourite EK "mirrors and smoke"
We have had a really tough year and have made record profits on the back of cutting your terms and benefits on a regular basis and not keeping up with cost of living in Dubai.
So here is 5 weeks profit share, although we should be paying you 20 weeks, we need to give $200 million to the government to help with paying for further benefits for nationals, so this is all we can afford. Be grateful and don't forget to thank your clever managers for sha*ting you so consistently. :ugh: :ugh:

[BIKKERDENNAH]

With the half yearly YET AGAIN record profiteering by the company.

WHY WHY do i keep hearing that no profit share next year due to this or that!!!

The latest one that even though we have record profiteering this year it is still below the PROJECTED threshold to trigger profit share to its slaves!:D

OR the OIL chestnut!!

Profit is profit is it not!:confused:

Stop profit share because it simply is not transparent enough and just give the slaves a 50 percent pay rise that you know we all bloody well deserve and be done with it.:eek:

As a small side dish!! I wonder how much it costs the company profiteering WISE as they are, to produce thousands of GLOSSY pictures warning its SLAVES not to steal the toothepaste. Surely if the toothepaste and everything else that is not bolted down in those toilets is all accounted for in the cost of that flight!! So printing those beautiful posters is surely extra cost to the company which reduces the overall PROFITEERING of the company! :rolleyes:

Anyway im sure it will be factored in to that end of year calculation as ANOTHER excuse for no PROFIT share this year!!:D

[ShockWave]

Who else is there to sponsor? Any one need a new stadium built? Surely we can give this money to someone! We can't just give it away to the staff for no justifiable benefit to EK!

[Nil defects]

Has been quiet. What are the rumours re profit share this year?

[Vorsicht]

None

Due to excess fuel uplift, as required by our deskbound non pilot CEO, not enough people taxiing on one engine, to many guys starting the APU after landing and finally disruption caused by Biman, fog and lazy pilots.

[Marooned]

10 - 16 tonnes 'additional' due to 'hub protection' on prob40 cavok making a farce of APU savings... sponsorship of whatever else we're putting our name on, engine failures, fog (well anything below 2000m), contract training, additional training of new recruits, schedule disruption due to crewing levels...

Profit share? They don't need smoke and mirrors to disguise their monumental cock ups this time and we'll be the ones that pay the tab as usual.

[Dune]

Print this page
Emirates to invest Dh2.7b in hotels and resorts
http://archive.gulfnews.com/business/Hotel_and_Tourism/10112490.html
03/21/2007 12:54 AM | By Saifur Rahman, Business News Editor
Dubai: Emirates, the second biggest and most profitable Arab carrier, is investing Dh2.7 billion in developing its hotel portfolio which will be managed by its newly-established Emirates Hotels and Resorts division.

Emirates carries the highest number of passengers to and from Dubai and also takes care of their accommodation them while on a stopover here.

"We are the largest pro-viders of businesses to Dubai's hotel industry and will continue to be. However, the new division is our responsible contribution to the emirate of Dubai," Hans E. Haensel, Emirates' senior vice-president for Destination and Leisure Management Division, told Gulf News.

"It is by no means taking away the businesses from the hotels."

Dubai's hotel industry is currently suffering from shortages of rooms.
"We are trying to contribute to that. The industry currently needs 35,000 additional rooms to meet the future demands. We are putting only 1,850 rooms to support the industry," Haensel assured the hoteliers of Dubai.

The airline's hotel projects include a Dh1.8 billion Emirates Park Towers - a twin tower complex that will house 900 guest rooms and 300 serviced apartments and rise to 77 floors - off Shaikh Zayed Road. Middle East Foundation is currently completing the piling works. In September this year, the Dh518 million Emirates Marina Hotel and Residence, a complex hosting 261 rooms and apartments, will open.

This will be followed by the Emirates Green Lakes, a 350-apartment complex, that Emirates Hotels & Resorts will operate under a management contract.
The airline already operates a 42-suite Al Maha Desert Resort and Spa, built in the 1990s at a cost of Dh125 million. It is also developing a similar one at a cost of Dh253 million at Wolgan Valley in Australia's Blue Mountains in New South Wales. Construction of the 40-suit Emirates Wolgan Valley is to start in June and is expected to be completed by September 2008.

The company, however, is not planning to develop this into a global hotel brand like Radisson SAS, spearheaded by the Scandinavian carrier, or other five-star brands such as Hilton, Sheraton and the Intercontinental.

"But we would compete with them in quality and service," Tony Williams, vice-president for Resorts and Projects at Emirates Hotels and Resorts, said.
"Across the range of products, we will offer super luxury desert conservation like Al Maha - a very niche product as well as the luxury five-star services in the large business hotels."

The airline has also entered into the spa business with the launch of Timeless Spa.

[Marooned]

2.7 Billion in everything but their staff...

FUEK. :mad:

[Thylakoid]

Vorsicht, I think they changed the sandwiches as well, so one more cost.:}

[critical winge]

Well, it is going to be like the Hilton Brand, like it's most famously known (employee) on the pay books. These managers like to shaft others, don't proove to do too well when on the top, and when it comes to do the job, all they do is blow it :yuk: . See, could be either company we are talking about here. :rolleyes:

[Oceanic]

I guess all the accounts are closed for another year, any educated guesses as to what profit share may be?

[Cyberbird]

Hey ShockWave -
"Who else is there to sponsor? Any one need a new stadium built? Surely we can give this money to someone! We can't just give it away to the staff for no justifiable benefit to EK!":eek:
Don't worry:
They Wannabees Managers are just about to splash out 1,5 Million Pound (not
Crappy Dirham) to replace the Concorde 1/4 Scale Model at the Roundabout to terminals 1,2 &3 at LHR. as BA is moving to Terminal 5 pretty soon;:{
so the beancounters thought its time to replace it with a frumpy looking A 380 Model in Emirates livery instead!
well - I'm afraid that doesn't bring the 10%+ resigation quote of qualified flightdeck crews - last year alone - under control :(
just wait what will happen, when they dare to announce a less than 4-weeks profit share - HR won't be amused by then - You bet!:*

[ruserious]

Well, I just about got it right last year, so here is my guess.
5 weeks
Based on nothing more than the theory, that it is the least they can get away without giving employees a proper pay rise.
Of course the usual scales will apply
Cabin Crew 1/2 share (basic pay only, to dumb to realise it :\ )
Flight Deck 1 x share (until next year onwards when pph kicks in fully)
VP's 2 x share
SVP's 4-5 x share
EVP's & above, who knows the limits

[geespot]

the cost of the "Model" is 1.5 million quid per year!!

[616200]

My guess is... 16 WEEKS:eek: :eek: :eek: :ooh: :O :} :yuk:
OK OK.. Back to my medications now...:{ :{

[gb777]

16 WEEKS....
Let me see... are you with SQ, posting on the wrong thread?
LOL

[L1011]

Think he meant 16 DAYS :rolleyes:

[GMDS]

My guess is 5 weeks ..... but factored by possible hours versus the effective blockhours you flew during them. :{

[Antman]

:O
I have a theory that management trawl these threads and keep there ears
to the ground as too the profit share rumours and give us what the
dominating rumour is. Why give more than the troops are expecting!!!!!!

With that in mind we need to start pushing the rumoured amount up.

I'll start

At least 12 weeks

:ugh:

[Desert Nomad]

Rumour from our finance manager, who is usually pretty spot on is that maximum is 3 weeks and could only be 2. Hope to god that this year he is wrong. It looks as though we will only just achieve the profit target set last year.

what EK seem to forget is that the increase in profit was to be about 20% increase on the previous year. So we increase profit by 20%, get a three week bonus and and a thank you. That doesn't really cover it does it. Inflation here is over 20%, everyone working longer and harder. One more year...

[fatbus]

Has anyone kept track of just how much money the has made in the last 2-3-4 years, I haven't but I think it's about 1.5 bil US in profit above every other expense. Surely they can pay alittle extra to get some pilots coming in order to not park airplanes. 3 weeks would be an insult but i'm not ruling it out.Sad

[Marooned]

Quote: 'get a three week bonus and and a thank you'

I doubt we will even get a thank you just a patronising letter from Ed or TCAS, or even better the illiterate AAR, on the excuses for this years share being as c£ap as...well every other year and why it was no ones fault except... well theirs actually but don't complain because millions want to join our wonderful airline so lump it anyway and aren't Arsenal really good, what a lovely stadium, and look at our Americas Cup boat...and the Dubai Cup... oh you were working? Never mind it was great blah blah... Oh and fuel prices... Ok I know we actually make a fortune on it anyway and charge surcharges even when its gone back down again but it won't be here for ever and then where will we be...

Actually, it may not even be a letter from Ed... is he still here or on a mission?

[cerbus]

EK did not barely make target this year. They passed the mark in about December I have been told. If that is true we should be in line for about 7-8 weeks profit share. Anything less would be a slap in the face and an insult to us.

[Gillegan]

I've heard all the rumours and I really don't know who to believe. If the company has made a mountainful of profits and we are due a hefty profit share check, I can't help but remember a similar situation a few years ago when lo and behold, EK decided to make an additional payment to the Dubai government. The result was that it reduced our profit share significantly.

[fo4ever]

It´s gonna be less than last year 4 sure.

They can blame it on the Biman for all I care.

The bonus is a joke and will be gone next year.

Trust me!!!!!!

fo4ever and ever and ever and ever and ever

[mini cooper]

The bonus fiasco every year sums up Emirates to a tee:

At EK you never get what you expect.
Nothing at EK ever lives up to expectations.
What could be a wonderful is always lessened by EK management.
Nothing is ever as simple as it seems at EK.
EK will always give you the minimum.

In short, we will not get what we deserve, expect or desire. We will get what EK deems is necessary to placate, no more no less!!!

Prepare to be diappointed.:{

PS who is MR Ed, never seen him or a picture of him. Where has Squeely hidden himself, not seen anything of him recently?

[Saltaire]

My 2 fils worth....

5 weeks, but the math would indicate 8.....:sad:

A management cash payout for 3 weeks to help pay for the newly anncounced race track, which leaves us waiting for summer golf rates, coupons, or staying at home with our newly purchased Tiger Woods 2007. I guess we'll be seeing more of you at the mall....

No reasonably priced golf in Dubai? Why am I here again?

[disconnected]

Whatever the profit share is,remember: Each day of profit share is only worth about 50% of what it was 4 years ago.

As is your every Dirham....

[gatvol2006]

I feel sorry for the boyz who have slogged their year off in whatever means to save, and get the profit share taken off from them for any excuse .. go EK esprit de corps reigns ....you love yourselves:ok:

[mini cooper]

Still very quiet, doesn't bode well.
When do they normally announce it?:(

[BigGeordie]

Think it should be announced towards the end of the month- somewhere about the 27th I think.

[Frozen Turtle]

Think it should be announced towards the end of the month- somewhere about the 27th I think.

And when is the bonus being paid (assuming there is one)? In May? :suspect:

[thefoxandfirkin]

Try 26th April at 3pm :eek: for the announcement and the end of May for the delivery:E

[BigGeordie]

Not holding my breath.:hmm:

[ekpilot]

You'll find the number on the black pool ball...;)

[ShockWave]

Very mysterious ekpilot! nice number though.
During 9 years with my previous employer I received one pen as a bonus and that was a first class give away that they were unable to give away! It never did work.
So far in EK I've received around 6 months in bonus payments. That may not be as much as some other airlines may have paid but it's a lot more than most.
If our boss wants to give me a bonus I'll take it and be grateful.
How some guys can be p_ssed off about being given extra cash is beyond me.:ugh:

[Marooned]

Nobody is p-ssed of with extra cash SW. I would replace 'given' with earned and 'grateful' with deserved...

You and I have been here long enough to know that as our productivity and therefore profits go up, the profit share goes down as they figure out devious new ways of undercalculating the years figures. I consider it part of my pay and I need it to pay off the bills to mount up over the year.

I would however rather see the profit share replaced by a decent pay rise and an index linked rise every year instead of the begging bowl approach we have now. :ugh:

[ShockWave]

:-You and I have been here long enough to know that as our productivity and therefore profits go up, the profit share goes down as they figure out devious new ways of under calculating the years figures. I consider it part of my pay and I need it to pay off the bills to mount up over the year.

But that is the problem as I see it, it is not part of our pay and if you think of it as such it will never be enough.
I simply choose to be happy with any bonus and vent my anger at the real problems as you correctly put it :- a decent pay rise and an index linked rise every year instead of the begging bowl approach we have now.

I find it much easier to be happy sometimes rather than angry and upset all the time. It makes working and living here easier. Cheers.

[Marooned]

SW: Points taken, I wish I had your resilience.

[Remove Status]

Ok Ok OK, Me knowing ...


It's gonna be 6 weeks " From TCAS's mouth "


;) ;) ;)

[Remove Status]

Well eklawyer, I guess you have a point ..

[falooty]

Shame on them after all this effort 4.5 totally unacceptable !:ugh:

[disconnected]

Considering all the trash we normally get, one would have thought this would be a major feature on the portal. Maybe even merit an email or FCN. Can't find anything offical on the Profit Share - can anyone help? I want to read it for myself.

Likewise is there anything on the Utility Allowance, Education Allowance or Phone? (No harm in being hopeful....)

Perhaps they've introduced an I.T. allowance so I can do all their homework, buy some printer cartridges and read their manuals on a decent size screen. That might be wishful thinking but then I've had a few beers....

[TangoUniform]

With apologies to thread creep, I can't find anything either. So went to "corporate applications" and that too is gone other than remote crew access (that does nothing). No TRIPS, No Predictions, No link to "Group World". What's going on?

T/U

[disconnected]

Hopefully some of our Profit Share will be invested in a decent I.T. provider.

My wish list is a simple log in to everything, logical menus, less photos of smiling people getting awards, no dead links, no plug-ins that apparently give them full access to my PC. I could go on.

By the way who manages the portal? Or is it done by committee? Perhaps its run by Flight Ops - now that would explain a lot.

Back to the Profit Share - step by step, where can I find the announcement on that blogger website they call the Portal.

[disconnected]

Somebody call the Duty Manager and tell him...

Surely as we are required to get everything from Web or disk this consitutes an emergency?

Please tell me the link to order grog and get the EK discount is still there.

[Ramboflyer 1]

New FCI,
Unfortunately we cannot accept resignations on an ad-hoc basis, you are required to make an appointment with your flight manager. This will ease congestion in the hallways and car parks.:ok: