MoD to issue "veterans badge" to service leavers.

[exleckie]

Is it just me or do you guys find the concept of being given a Blue Peter style badge when you leave the RAF, which is supposedly a "thank you and well done for giving us the best years of your life (tri-service style)" reward offensive??????

Apparently Mr Caplin and Buff Hoon think it is a great idea. Personally, I think it's an insult.

If there should be something to show recognition of service. it should be a struck medal for service in the RAF, be it one month or 40 years.

Thoughts please on what i think is an emotive subject.

Thanks,

Exleckie.

[R3Hard]

Mmmmmmmmmmm. Was a study done (i think) a few years ago by the wife of that fine doctor made famous by the war down south. Basically said that after doing nothing other than passing basic training you get flags flying, family attending, parades etc etc! After 20 years and a couple of wars etc etc you get some scrote asking for your id card and telling you to fark off in a politeish way - if you are lucky!!

Sounds like some pathetic attempt to solve this problem - maybe, mind you i would rather have a blue peter presenter!!!!

:O

[Fg Off Max Stout]

What will its scrap value be?

I don\'t suppose this will be much consolation for those being made redundant at the moment.

[Safety_Helmut]

Consolation for redundancy, get a grip Max Stout, that comes in the form of a payout that for many will hit six figures.

So the badge, something to hand on to the grand children.

SH

[vecvechookattack]

My Grandad got a suit when he left.

I think its a great idea. Much better than a medal. We get far too many medals nowadays anyway...

[exleckie]

Yeh, R3

You get nought apart from a "we've gotcha" parade for some.

There are so many people, who leave the Force with nothing to show that they have have served, that I really believe that something other than a badge should be issued. i.e a medal of service recognition.
(incidentally, I have campaign medals etc, just thinking about the guys that get nothing).

Example, compare the medals of a techie at Brize or Lyneham to the medals of a techie on Tonkas. Everyone has contributed to the greater effort but only the guys n gals who have been in theatre have something to show for it. Yet the GnG at the aforementioned stations put in a lot of effort and get nothing.

Its about time that people on short engagements, both airmen and officers alike have their service recognised. I am not talking about giving medals away to the people who haven't served in theatre, just a medal to recognise their contribution.

Exleckie

[SirToppamHat]

How about a nice engraved watch?

I don't have any particular view on this next bit, but I believe that in some previous threads on here it was suggested that a retired serviceman's ID card would help - I think the Americans have something similar. Not quite sure what they want to do with them, but I guess the Americans perhaps give their veterans access to on-base facilities?

STH

[Stan Bydike]

The American system of support to their Veterans is totally beyond anything the UK can offer. On base they have, particularly in CONUS, the BX and Commissary for shopping which all veterans are entitled to use. Don't see much appeal in the SPAR shop. Veterans can also use facilities such as the Hale Koa (Sp?) a 4 Star hotel on Wakiki Beach owned and run by the military at subsidised rates. US veterans also have access to educational and medical facilities.

We can't look after our serving troops never mind our Veterans.

The badge is an insult, and also one you have to opt out of in your paperwork from Handbrake House. So it will no doubt appear to be a success because folks won't be bothered to take the opt out route.

Really does :mad: me off.

[Pontius Navigator]

Where do I get my badge?

For a year or so WWII veterans got the badge. In January this was extended to their widows. I am not sure if this meant recent widows or war-time widows.

These old boys, and some girls, now attend regular commemoration services for the fallen. In my case we have joined them on an annual pilgrimage for the last 10 years. Many other 'civilians' accompany them too. A veterans badge for retired servicemen, worn at such occasions, lets them see that soldiering did not stop in 1945 and that today's soldiers share their sorry as much as they do.

By wearing a badge we show our presence.

[engineer(retard)]

If the wonkers wanted to show some gratitude, they could stop taxing our pensions. Returning 40% really fecks me off.

[SteveStephens]

Coming up to 30 years service and looking forward to the nice letter from the AOC, gold clock, big ceremony to mark this great occasion. Sorry there I was dreaming again, get on with the job it's expected!

[RubiC Cube]

Nearly a year after leaving, I have recently received my letter from the AOC thanking me for my valuable service on, amongst other things, VC10s. So flying down the back a few times on the Washington shuttle obviously counts for something. Can I retrospecyively enter it in my log book?

[Gainesy]

I believe French Veterens have a discreet lapel badge which entitles them to discounts on public transport amongst other things.

Can't see the Missus being impressed with shopping in a NAAFI, whatever the discount.:yuk:

[EESDL]

Discharged yesterday.
Suffice to say that I politely declined the offer of an "HM Forces" badge - talk about a weeping discharge?
The Cclerk was ashamed to offer the application form!!!

Atleast I left the station laughing, knowing that I had made the right decision if the powers that be seriously think that such an innitiative was a valid idea.

Bon Voyage

[VoicesFromTheCreche]

'

[airborne_artist]

Such a badge has been available to all who served in HM Forces, in any rank, for many years.

It's the British Legion lapel badge. Only a couple of pounds (might even have been free when I joined), and quite discrete, as it's about 1" high by 0.5" wide.

[6Z3]

Handed in my ID card today at Culdrose after 35 yrs RAF/FAA most of them at Culdrose.

Like with EESDL, the LWtr who saw me off the premises was clearly embarrassed about offering me a badge - I politely declined.

I did get get a chance to wave to the Captain as I drove past him on his daily jog; don't think he saw me though, cheers Mike.

Oh, the NBCD section did say I could keep my AR5 haversack and dogtags, so I have something to remind me of the good times.

Cheers team.

[timex]

Never mind the badge, my Dad's still waiting on his Suez medal. (MY uncle got his...and died 3 weeks later )

Methinks this is just a scam by Bliar and Buffhoon to get the public and some of the military back on his side:mad:

[Jimlad]

My grandfather got his in the post last week.

Only problem is that he died 3 weeks ago.

(I think the old guy would have appreciated the irony):D

[exleckie]

This whole issue seems to have raised many different emotions and feelings towards recognition of service.

Does anyone think that a medal should be struck for general RAF service.

Would a campaign for such a medal bear fruit or just be a complete jaffa???????

Thoughts please

Exleckie

[Logistics Loader]

I'd have preferred promotion and stayed in...

Got my farewell letter in the outside khazi just in case im caught short..!!

Badge aint worth sweet FA.....

Our American cousins have got it sorted...
Vets ID card giving u access to BX/PX etc...discounts on a whole host of stuff...

Our lot in Gov/MOD,,, thx very much, Bye !!!

[DC10RealMan]

The veterans who served with RAF Bomber Command in WW2 and suffered the highest casualty rate of any allied military arm, and conducted the longest campaign and for many years were the only members of the RAF regularly attacked Nazi Germany received nothing and are still denigned a campaign medal. I have spoken to many of the survivors who are still hurt by the insult even today. At least a medal, even a "Blue Peter" one is something!

[exleckie]

DC10Realman.

This is precisely my point.

Recognition should not come in the form of a "Blue Peter badge"

It should come in the form of a struck medal which states," For general service in the RAF/Navy/FAA/RM/Army/AAC etc etc.

There is a General Service Cross you can buy, but it is irrelevant to the arm you served within.

However, I would rather pay for a GS Cross than accept a badge dreamt up by snotty nosed, back of the room MoD muppets who do not really understand what ARMED SERVICE is all about!!!!!!!!

[buoy15]

The US, very generously and proudly do, look after their retired service people.

The only way you can jump the queue in a hospital, BE or Commissary is if you are in uniform or on active duty.

In return, these proud people treat anyone in uniform with the utmost respect. I have spent many happy detachments States-side and have witnessed and envy their aftercare.

It guiles some people when they say 'have a nice day', but I do think they really mean it

As an afterthought; when I retired, I took my aircrew watch back to stores.
I was asked if it was still working.
I said "No, I hadn't worn it for years, the battery was flat"
The storeman said "It's no good to us Sir, you may as well keep it"
This destroys the old addage, that on retirement, instead of getting one, you give it back

It wasn't a gold one, like from BR, but it's got nearly 10,000 hours

Does Buff Hoon suggest I sell to spotters, go to e-bay, or apply for a Blue Peter Badge after 42.5 years

Got a No1, No5, brand new hat and Crombie long Greatcoat as well. All ranked - 42" - 35" - 31"

[cribble]

DC10realMan

If you know someone who qualifies, FWIW, the following (with apologies for a bit of bandwidth wasting):

THE AIR CREW EUROPE STAR
24.General

The Air Crew Europe Star is granted for operational flying form United Kingdom bases over Europe (including the United Kingdom) from the 3rd September, 1939, to the 5th June, 1944 (inclusive).

Airborne Service

The qualification for army personnel who were posted for aircrew duties (para. 6) is four months' (120 days') service (except as in para. (ii) below) in a R.A.F. operational unit, 60 days of which was service in an operational unit engaged in operational flying over the area defined above. At least one qualifying sortie must have been made during the period of 60 days. The Air Crew Europe Star may not be awarded until the 1939-45 Star has been qualified for by either
60 days' service in an air operational unit in addition to the 60 days required for the Air Crew Europe Star, or
not less than 180 days' operational service elsewhere, in addition to the 60 days' service required for the Air Crew Europe Star (notwithstanding the grant of a special award under para. 10(i) or 15).
In cases where before joining an air operational unit, operational service of over four months (but under 180 days) has been rendered elsewhere, service in the air operational unit may be added to this former service in order to qualify for the 1939-45 Star under the 180 days' rule, and service may then be aggregate to qualify for the Air Crew Europe Star.
Notes.

Although air service may be added to army service to qualify for the 1939-45 Star under the 180 days' rule, army service may not be added to air service to qualify for this award under the 60 days' rule.
The rules for counting time spent as a prisoner of war or evading capture, or after escape or liberation and the conditions of the special award of this star are stated in Section I.
25.Clasps (Alternative Awards)

Personnel qualifying for the Air Crew Europe, the France and Germany or the Atlantic Star, or two of these stars, will be awarded only the campaign star for which they first qualified. They will, however, be awarded a clasp to show that they rendered qualifying service for a second star. A further clasp will not be awarded to those who rendered service which would have qualified for the third star.
A silver rose emblem, denoting the award of the clasp, will be worn on the riband of the Campaign Star awarded, when the star itself is not worn.
Personnel who made sorties against targets on land and at sea from the same unit do not thereby qualify for both the Air Crew Europe Star and the Atlantic Star. In such cases the star appropriate to the normal function of the unit at the material time will be awarded without a clasp, except when the latter has been earned by other service. Cases of difficulty in applying this rule will be referred to the War Office (A.G. 4 Medals) for decision before an award is made.

[Pontius Navigator]

Cribble, thanks for that, I always thought there was a 'medal' I didn't realise that you did not have to fly over Europe or that award of the Atlantic Star debarred you from the other.

My father was caught in the 2-stars game with Burma and Paciffic.

[timex]

It should come in the form of a struck medal which states," For general service in the RAF/Navy/FAA/RM/Army/AAC etc etc

How long before you qualify though? We already do 15 yrs for LS&GC.


There is a General Service Cross you can buy, but it is irrelevant to the arm you served within.

But why should you have to buy it? Bit sad really.....

[Snakecharmer]

I got everything I wanted from the public sector just after I left... I then distributed it wisely between my various bank accounts and pub 'slates'! Waiting for the first of the monthly beertoken deposits into my bank account... :-)

[exleckie]

The general service cross is a commemorative medal which can be worn alongside service medals on Civvy clothing only, e.g. blazers etc.

I have seen quite a few on rememberance Sunday.

Thing is though, why should you have to buy it? If you do, it'll set you back around £35 which won't break the bank.

In fact, i would rather pay for General Service Cross than be offered a naff little badge. And let's face it, civvies who have never served won't even know you paid for it!!

Non serving civvies don't understand the military full stop, let alone medals, so you are better off buying a GSC because that way, people will at least know you served in the forces simply by looking at it. Wonder what they'll make of your pathetic little badge though.


Basically, it was comissioned to recognise people's efforts on short engagements. Many never get to LSGCM stage.

[2Old2Care]

The "No Bomber Command Medal" is an old issue. The aircrew did qualify for a campaign medal that indicated active service. However, the groundcrew, being based in UK, only qualified for the Defence Medal (along with Army pay clerks on Stornaway or Anglesey, etc), rather than the campaign medal that Army Lines of Communications Troops got for actually being on the Continent. As Bomber Command provided the RAF's Main Offensive, and as working conditions, particularly in winter, on Bomber Command bases were as arduous and dangerous as LOCs on the Continent, Harris felt his Command ground staff should have its own campaign medal, and announced he would not accept an honour if they didn't get one. This may have cost him his peerage, although he did accept his GCB.

The 1945 distancing of politicians from the bomber campaign (most despicably, Churchill, who appeared at the Berlin victory parade as a Colonel of the Oxfordshire Hussars, having spent most the war in his RAuxAF honorary Air Commodore's uniform) may have come into it, but the aircrew themselves did get a campaign medal.

Apologies for the historical spotterism. Don't think the badge is a bad thing, but hope the relevant respect will come with it.

[farmersrelative]

Where would you stop when deciding who is awarded medals for WW2 service, miners, nurses, postmen, factory workers, bakers, ?

My father, his brother, my uncles and grandfathers all served in WW2, but received no medals, gongs, badges, or certificates whatsoever.
None of them even got a single day's holiday or leave, in over 2000 days of the war.
What they did was absolutely vital to the war effort, and without them and their kind, none of the soldiers, sailors and airmen would have been able to do their bit either.

What did they do?

They were farmers producing food, mountains of the stuff to feed the troops and the civil population. To absolute capacity that their lands would produce. Owner occupiers did not have the luxury to down tools at 5pm or 6pm to take the evening off. . Sure there was rationing, but the farmers could not produce more than they did, it simply was not possible.

They rose at 6am every day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, year after year from Sept 1939 to August 1945, and worked through every day until, 7 or 8 even 9 and 10 o'clock, with only respite a snooze on Sunday afternoons, and Xmas days. They themselves were not 'drinkers who frequented the pub' at night either.

After backbreaking work all day, bed to sleep was all they were capable of, no socialising, no football game down the local park, no seaside trips, or anything like that.

At least the 'land girls' and other employees worked regular hours and had fair share of time off from work, and leave or holidays.

Despite being knackered they still had to do Home Guard duties, like trek up onto the hills at 7pm and stay awake through the night till 7am looking for possible enemy paratroopers, have a couple of hours kip and then go to milk the cows or something else.

How many of you could do 12 hours picking potatoes or swedes or other crops day after day for a couple of weeks without more than 15 minutes break for a cuppa and 30 minutes for lunch?

Where are the medals for these war heroes?

[Maple 01]

My heart bleeds! Remind me again, number of Armed Forces casualties to those of farmers? Are you trying to equate a tour with Bomber Command to being safe in your own bed each night?

[C130 Techie]

In no way do I wish to belittle the invaluable contribution of farmers and other essential service industries during the war.

However there is a huge difference between daily hard graft and facing mortal danger every day.

[sparkie]

I wrote several times to the RAF News letter page during my career asking for an official retired service ID card to be provided.

I recall the waffle from a MoD spokesperson was usually caged with words such as security and administrative burden.

Eventually RAFA provided a veterans card for members, and last year I subscribed to a British Veterans recognition card. (www.britishveterans.co.uk) and now have a card that has my former rank and service on it.

Does it get me on to a military base? not a chance, what good is it? there are quite a few companies that give discount for holders of the card, but apart from that, its of very little use.

Sad to say my 37 years of loyal service count for very little thesedays. Yes I get a pension (bloodywell earned it) and its taxed up the ying yang! Its been my experience that there are 2 types of ex servicemen/women.....those who switch off/F off and never have an interest again in their former service, and those who still feel a sense of belonging, albeit from afar thesedays, and would like to be remain part of the organisation that for most of their working life was home.

Per arduous and sod the astra



:{

[exleckie]

Sparkie,

I take it you was once a leckie. If so then Cheers.:ok:

I too subscribe to the Veterans Recognition card. V good too.

I agree that the people who won't benefit from anything such as an ID card, General Service Medal AND DEFINITELY NOT AN INSULTING BADGE are the people who shouldn't have been allowed in in the first place.
I never understood the person who puts on a uniform and has no pride in what it represents.
That's why the true, dedicated types like you and I feel the need for recognition.

Exleckie.

[Safety_Helmut]

That's why the true, dedicated types like you and I feel the need for recognition.
Oh dear, you feel the need for recognition, well here it is, you did a few years in the RAF and now you're out, congratulations.

Time to move on though, what possible reason could you have for wanting to enter an RAF station, there is nothing for you there. Do you want to visit the Spar perhaps ? If you have a legitimate reason to visit, eg friends or other associations etc then you probably already have access.

As for the other crap you spout, get a life.

[vecvechookattack]

I have to agree with safety H...

Why, oh Why would anyone feel the need to enter an Establishment? I can understand it if there is a social function to go to but in that case you would either be a member of the mess or a guest...otherwise..? why? what is there behind that gate for you?

[Pontius Navigator]

Farmersrelative,

WWI was known as the war to end all wars. WWII had no such sobriqueite until the Beeb and academiea (or even Tone) rebranded it as the people's war.

Now that it is the People's War 'they' suspect that the 'people' will only accept this if the 'people' have some recognition.

Moving to the 37 years and no recognition touch, I sympathise. 37 years in the service of one's country, usually in a comfortable billet but sometimes not, but subjected to a different form of discipline and control all that time. I can understand wht people want to stand out from the crowd.

[timex]

That's why the true, dedicated types like you and I feel the need for recognition.

Thats why you get your pension and if you were a good lad you got an LS&GC, pusser has said thanks. 37 yrs RAF good effort but thats life in a Lt Blue / Dk Blue or Green suit.

So how do you decide who gets the "medal", 5yrs, 10 yrs, 20 ? Could be very devisive.

[ImageGear]

"Oh dear, you feel the need for recognition, well here it is, you did a few years in the RAF and now you're out, congratulations."

I believe we may be being a little harsh here.

A quick check of the Users on PPrune will reveal the extent of people who are "out" and those who are "in" and I think you will find that the "Outs" score heavily.

Why - because even 10, 20 and 30 Years after leaving, the RAF's profound effect on young lives, lays a foundation of comradeship and belonging that continues to exist to the present day.

I don't need any "official" recognition from the RAF now, they owe me very little and I owe them a debt of gratitude for embedding a set of values, principles and experiences in me that I have been able to propogate to my kids.

We are an "RAF family" with current siblings serving but the significant reason they chose the RAF was due to my positive experiences, encouragement and guidance, not a badge.

Life has moved on for me but the thread of belonging is still there and holds firm through sites like Pprune.

If it's in the blood you won't need any official recognition, you can still stay in the circle.

Imagegear

[sparkie]

Imagegear

Your words are nicely put.

Exleckie...sorry, ex ground comms...Flight Watch/TCW/Commcens etc.

I am certainly not looking for any recognition, and yes I know I get a pension, but after 37 years surviving such places as Labuan/Aden/El Adem/Gan/Mt Pleasant and Gulf War 1 locations I reckon I must have earned it.

Those of us who want to remain a part of the organisation that we spent most of our life with, will do so, those of you who have done it and moved on with nary a further care about the RAF....good luck to you, if its what you want who am I to lecture otherwise.

Not sure about the veterans badge, if its a small discreet one, like the British Legion issue, then thats fine, again, only those who want to remain 'in touch' will wear it. Heck, I've still got my sparks badge and wear it on my jim jams!!












:p

[exleckie]

I think certain people misconstrued that I, personally, want recognition. I already have it and if you read earlier posts you will understand what I am talking about.

I happen to be very happy in my civvy life, however, I can't forget the years that I gave to the service as it did happen to be a large chunk of my life.

As for the insinuation that I am looking to try and get access to an establishment, well, sorry, but I don't need it. I just so happen to live and work on one. Same job, different overalls, less stress, more pay, better working conditions, and married to a wife who still wears her blue suit.(but not in bed).

Some of the bolshyness and "get a life" type posts are perfectly understandable. Freedom of expression is something that by doing the job that you serving guys do, allows both yourselves and the rest of us to say what we like without fear of retribution.

But, I am afraid that when you leave the RAF, you are the unfortunate ones who will find it difficult to adapt to a different life. If you are lucky enough not to have faced a campaign, you will leave with nothing, maybe a beercall, but that's it. Then, you will realise that being given a little badge as a reward for your service, you will begin to understand the very first post at the start of this thread.

This topic has provided many different expressions of opinion and I hope it continues to do so.

For those who have contributed so far, Thanks.

Exleckie

[brakedwell]

When I retired after 19 years service I missed my own dining out night at BZN due to being down route, so I arranged my own farewell party in a well known Limassol drinking hole. Talk about not being able to organise a PU in a brewery, nothing seems to have changed!

[The Real Slim Shady]

Brakedwell, Likewise, Wasn't dined out by the squadron or the station after 8 years on the block. Didn't have a goodbye from the WingCo or Stn Cdr. The brand new first day in job Sqn Cdr nabbed me on the way out the door, Dave Piper, pity I never I had the chance to work for him - lovely man, and wished me well.

C'est la vie.

[buoy15]

Farmersrelative

Your bound to get a bit of grief on this thread in this present day

Everything you say is solid

Your relatives were classed as "essential personell" and the whole war effort would have foundered without them.

They had to feed the country, at the same time saying to Gerry, "life goes on as normal".

As Oscar Wilde said " Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing"

The value of the 'Home Front' was priceless

As a young lady, my mother, along with others, manned a firetender, worked in the fields at harvest-time in Staffordshire and hosted Commonwealth troops prior to VE day, all at her own expense.

It would be a unique medal for these achievements, bearing in mind, the Chester at Arms, who has the final say, and finally approves awards based on the old principle of colours, like the War Medal -
Red - Green - Black

Red for the Fire of London - Green for the fields of England - Black for the Blackout.

How about - Red for the Firetrucks, Yellow for the harvest, Crimson for the Commonwealth troops -

Red Yellow Crimson

If you were really good they could add a rosette, so 60 years down the the line, you wouldn't be means tested for a pension

Sadly now we have B liar, who says "No looking back, we must go forward" I will bin our constitution and all this historic cr*p and you will do as I say and not what I do!

Best of luck!!

[exleckie]

Some very poignant posts on this thread.

It has opened up the whole concept of recognition for a variety of efforts, be it civil or military.

The question I think has become recurring is, how do we recognise military service or civil effort, without giving away worthless tokens of gratitude. i.e. a ridiculous badge????????????????????????????????

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

I have 7 years to my pension which, fingers crossed will be 38.5 years served, and I would rather stick pins in my eyes than contemplate "entering a service establishment" ever again:ok:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Bunker Mentality]

There's an interesting variation in attitude to medals around the bazzars. I know a bloke who has the GW1 medal but hasn't even put the ribbon up because (having been in Cyprus for the war) he felt he hadn't earned it.

I think the British approach to medals has a lot to recommend it. But, having unified the DFC/DFM, AFC/AFM, MC/MM etc on the grounds that officers and airmen have to display equal bravery/dedication to earn them, (and binning the 'leadership under stress' criterion)why wasn't the principle carried over to the LS&GC medal?

Of course officers aren't eligible for the LS&GC on the official grounds that their conduct is, by definition, always good. You may well laugh, but that's the reason Rodneys dont get it!

The rules must have changed though, because my Dad got his LS & GC in the 50s, having been commissioned from the ranks during WW2. It's even inscribed to 'Flt Lt X X Mentality RAF'.

The RAFR/VR (all ranks) also get service medals - takes 10 years for them to qualify, I think. Anyway, back to the thread.

Perhaps we should have something (like the Jubilee medal?) for, say, 5 or 10 yrs, with a bar for each additional period. Bin the LS & GC and the Reserve madals and make the new one available to all?

[engineer(retard)]

BM

Ex rankers are still eligble for LS&GCM providing they meet the time criteria before their commission is confirmed at the end of EOT2. But you have to apply for it. i know a couple who did many did not.

Regards

Retard

[Bunker Mentality]

e(r)

Well, you learn something new every day! Thanks for the info - Dad was a ground radar/comms man, so the EOT2 thing makes sense. I expect it took a long time to catch up with all the formal trg blah when there weren't enough bods to fill the EngO specialist slots demanded by the burgeoning of technology during WW2.

Anyway, back to the thread - soz for the diversion.

[Beeayeate]

Those who wish to show previous service in the RAF can and do obtain squadron lapel badges for their best remembered squadron(s). These badges are becoming more and more visible as ex-mob blokes of my time, of all ranks, are retiring from work and joining associations, aviation museums, etc.


.

[exleckie]

Is there enough support for a sticky?

Should there be a medal struck for general service, being it whatever arm we / you have served in, no matter if it was one day or 50 years.

What is the support for a badge?

What is the support for a medal?

After all, you have given service to the Crown, do you want something to show you have served Q+C or not???????????

More thoughts please.

Exleckie

[Safety_Helmut]

I think you asked some very similar questions on page 2.

no thanks to the sticky
no thanks to the medal
no suuport for the badge
no support for a medal
no to the showing you've served

If you've done any reasonable length of service in these times you will likely have medals anyway. I think many of us would feel patronised by a meaningless medal/badge just to show you,ve been 'in'. Maybe i'm out of step with everyone else. Recognition where it's due. not just for doing a few years.

I will ask a question, what does everyone think of the pathetic Queen's Golden Jubilee Medal ? It shows I had done at least 5 years at the time of the jubilee, what a complete and utter waste of money. Minting them, issuing them, sewing the bloody ribbons on. It doesn't even have a name on.

Safety_Helmut

[timex]

Medals , when would you wear them?

Reunions and Remembrance Parades, when you would wear your other medals anyway.

Pusser won't give out medals for "no reason".

Badges , could be worn anywhere. small discreet.

[Safety_Helmut]

timex

I believe one could get one's butler to sew the ribbons on one's pyjamas.

Safety_Helmut

[lurkposition]

I totally agree with ImageGear. I have just handed in my watch and olive drab underpants after 34 years. My pension and grat arrived in Mrs lurkposition's account on time so I am receiving exactly what it said on the tin all those years ago. The general public would not care or understand why I would be wandering around wearing a badge ( they would most likely condemn me for being a social trainspotter). Those that know me from the forces would not need me to display a badge to greet/avoid me!

The USAF idea of a vet card may be handy for the odd occasion when one would like to visit pals on base but booking on has not been a problem yet.

I find my goldfish club tie pin/badge excited too many of the GP before I stopped wearing it.

I had a varied and interesting time in the RAF, I shall remember what it taught me as ImageGear recounted.

No Blue Peter Badge for me!

[exleckie]

Safety_Helmut

I think your views are very very sound.

Okay, you've done 6 years which is admirable and you may have accrued some campaign medals, well done mate. Utmost respect to you, after all, you earnt them.

But just feel as though you were one of the guys who never went anywhere by default of their posting (could have happened to you)

The effort that those guys is no less valid than those in theatre. (think army, think rear echelon) .

But, if you left the RAF, with nothing to show for it, would you not want some kind of recognition?

You already have campaign medals , which one day, you will wear on a blazer, or tell stories about. ( believe me you will)

As for the QJM, i think it was an insult that those who hadn't served four and a half years at the time of issue were denied it.

[Safety_Helmut]

ex leckie

each point in turn:

thank you
6 years, not sure how you worked that out, leckie maths was never good in my experience
never went anywhere - obviously a shiney then
no
sure I will, already started, did i tell you about when I was in Gulf War 1 ?
QJM - oh please spare me the false sympathies.

Safety_Helmut

[Milt]

A medal from the past.

Back in the 50s I was most fortunate to do a 2 year RAAF to RAF exchange tour as a TP mostly on the V Bombers. RAF saw fit to send me an AFC which I value highly.
But I have never seen the citation which I presume accompanies the decoration.

Notification was in the Queen's Birthday Honours gazetted 12 June 1958. Am trying to find the citation. Does anyone know where old citations go?

My kids are asking "What did you do Dad !!"

[The Helpful Stacker]

As for the QJM, i think it was an insult that those who hadn't served four and a half years at the time of issue were denied it.

Except every wet behind the ears officer that came out of Cranwell during the qualifying period.

Exactly why OR's had to serve 5 years to qualify and our fearless leaders only had to pass out of basic training is beyond me.

[BEagle]

Personally I think that the Golden Jellybean medal should only have been given to those who had served since the Silver Jubilee - medals for which were dished out arbitrarily but chiefly to senior officers, it seems.....

And I'd sooner be permitted to wear my Saudi and Kuwaiti GW1 medals than some silly spotters' badge.

[Gainesy]

If you want to advertise that you were once in the Mob, wear an RAF tie.

Those that count will recognise it, those that do not recognise it don't count.

Simple and discrete.

[Pontius Navigator]

BEagle is clearly refering to some new lapel pin and not the Veterans Badge that is worn proudly by the WWII veterans.

Gainsy suggestion has some merit except that one tie can get very stained and worn (length of service measured by egg stains?) and also a bit boring. The tie really only works when in vet uniform, white shirt, blazer, and grey slacks. Oh, and grey hair.

[Mel Effluent]

Lucky to have hair!

[Squirrel 41]

Just to clarify the position for the Reservists on the long service medals.

It was the case that after 10 years' qualifying service you were awarded the Air Efficency Award (AE), with postnominals (if you like that sort of thing) and a bar for each subsequent 10 year period. There were equivalent RNR/RNVR/TA medals all with slightly different criteria (can't remember the Navy one, but the TA one was the Territorial Decoration, TD).

These were amalgamated a few years ago into the Volunteer Reserves Medal (VRM), common across the forces after 10 years' qualifying service, with bar for every five years subsequent qualifying service. However, VRM does not have postnominals.

Additionally, for outstanding service, Reservists may be nominated for the Queens Volunteer Reserve Medal (QVRM) which does have postnominals.

The unfairness crept in with the transitional arrangements, where Officers with 5 or more years served towards their AE could elect to collect an AE after 10, whereas all ORs - irrespective of length of service or seniority were not given the choice and got the VRM, minus postnominals. (Less than 5 years in, all got the VRM).

Poor decision IMHO, causing compeltely unnecessary aggro - should have been one decision for all.

Hope this clarifies things.

S41

[Circuit Basher]

A bit more on RAFVR(T) medals - for those who assist with Space Cadets:

After 12 yrs satisfactory service, you get the Cadet Forces Medal (CFM) and then for each 8 yrs subsequent to that, you used to get a bar. Around 4 yrs ago, the qualifying service for the bar was reduced to 6 yrs. I now have the CFM and bar (together with the QGJM) - I just refer to them as attendance medals!

They do reflect a certain amount of brave conduct over the years with SWMBO, however!! :D

[Pontius Navigator]

And of course I misread BEagles post about the 25 yr qual for the jelly bean.

Saw the tailor today with a medal cabinet so that you could select your CDM etc for your mess kit.

What did you have to do to get the Sierra Leone medal?

Why didn't I get a Tarshine Beach medal for braving the Aden sun for a week? The risks we took try to get a pair of flip flops for less than 2/6. 2/3 was an absolute bargain.

Then of course I should have qualified for the Polar Medal (Newfie clasp and Darwin star) for walking the length of Goose Bay airfield, at night, in a lounge suit, with snow on the ground.

Almost forgot I also qualified for the Malta medal (Gut).

[The Helpful Stacker]

What did you have to do to get the Sierra Leone medal?

Avoid getting bitten by centipedes, scorpions, snakes and all other nasties in the makeshift showers, pray that you don't get the other type of malaria that was kicking about (the one that the tablets didn't protect against) then survive the rest of your time out their without needing to be casevac'd back with the particularly harsh local version of Deli Belly that some folk got.

Oh yeah, and avoid the poisonous snake that crawled out of my colleagues bergan at Lyneham.

;)

[exleckie]

Safety_Helmut.

Lets get a few things sorted mate.

1. I am not in here for a fight.

2. My maths was crass, maybe down to having a few Keo's so thanks for pointing that out.

3. If you read earlier threads you may realise that I am not a shiney. Also realise that you are not too.

4. I have campaign medals, just thinking of the people who get nothing.

5. I do not give false sympathies.(re QGJM) My Missus who is in a blue suit missed out by a few days despite getting a tour in Kosovo the Falklands and Bosnia.Incidentally, FI is still on a war footing so why no recognition for that?

6. Can you see that I am only trying to raise debate as to recognition of service where it has gone unrecognised?

7. Can we call a truce, after all, we are on the same side?????

[The Helpful Stacker]

FI is still on a war footing so why no recognition for that?

Eh?

What will it say on the back of a FI (non-conflict) medal? "For services to Penguin watching, binge drinking and swapping waste AVTUR for more beer with the Benny's".

:rolleyes:

I volunteered for another tour in Iraq rather than go to that complete waste of 4 months at the other end of the world.

[Safety_Helmut]

THS

bloody well said, war footing my arse !

ex leckie

looking for a fight, not me
QJM. your 'missus' didn't get it, so what, what did she miss out on, a totally meaningless lump of cupro-nickel.
Raise deabte ? if you have served in a capacity deserving recognition, it is probably already recognised, eg LS&GCM, campaign, meritorious etc, if you don't have those, there may not be a lot worth recognising.

Truce ? It's a debate, and in my opinion your side of the debate is not standing up well. All you wish to do is give some 'medal' or 'badge' to every single ex service person.

Sorry mate, but it's a bad idea.

SH

[buoy15]

A mate of mine (recently commissioned) was called in by the AE Ldr (Green Shielder) to be told his LSGCM had arrived on the Sqn.

Informed this was not an Officer medal, did he really want it?

Interesting to see at the 206 Sqn disbandment, the number of young SNCO aircrew with 4+ medals.

Nothing like a good skirmish in the Falklands or sand to decorate the chest, what!

I was 'awarded' both Jubilee medals with ribbons, one worn, one still boxed.

Anyone else out there?

Milt

With such an award, you have to be written up and cited in the "London Gazette"

Should be \'on line\' now, have a look

Well done mate!

[Pontius Navigator]

Buoy 15 ever on 201?

Safety_Helmut, the debate sems a bit two-sided at the moment but exlechie has just stirred the grey matter.

My Dad let me play with his medals. They kicked around the toybox for a while, then they didn't. He always wore the ribbons however as it was part of his uniform. Not only servicemen got medals and not only servicemen wear medals. Medals are worn with uniform by many people, the Corps of Commisionaires for one.

Then my F in Law also let his children play with them. About 25 years ago he had to buy a new set of medals. A truism here but exlechie is not quite right that you will talk about it. From my observations seems that WW II did not talk about their experiences to their sons but are starting to tell their grandsons.

I think it is because they expect their sons to learn about it from its nearness but, years later, they realise that memories are fading and that grandsons should be told. I think this accounts for the number of 'experience' exhibits at museums.

My aunt treasured her brother's war time memorabilia tht he kept for the 35 years after the war, Anzac cap badge, buttons, flashes, medals and box, and two .303 rounds, with little brass parangs set in and buttons in place of the rims, as paper knives.

No I side with exlechie on this, keep your medals safe, you may wish to give them to your grandchildren. Children under 20 don't even know about GW 1 or the Cold War.

My studes only 20 years after the 6-day war had no idea about that dust up, a seminal moment in military operations.

[CarPete]

Sorry guys, as an ex mil chopper driver and all round war hero (well maybe not that) ribbons,,medals and badges amount to diddly squat out in the real world. Succesful in the corporate world now and wouldn't dream of mentioning heroic deeds in the dead of night on outskirts of XMG or Stanley or wherever, every now and then I get to interview an ex skygod and frankly find them dull and uninteresting with nothing to talk about other then irrelevant activities in Bosnia, Kuwait or wherever. Its what you can do in the future that counts, sorry, but it realy is.

Find it a bit sad that the only thing people have in their lives is what they did in the past and to walk around in a blue blazer with a squadron badge on it once a year with medals hanging off it.

[Pontius Navigator]

CarPete, in a way you are right but unfortunately there are a lot like that out there. I was in Malta about 6 years ago. There was an old boy, in blazer, with medals, standing, misty-eyed, underneath the Submarine War Memorial overlooking Selima Creek.

He was obviously paying his respects to dead comrades. He looked sad that no one seemed to recognise either who he was or what he was doing.

I know another old boy who also spent many a day sitting at the bottom of Selima Creek when he was a lad. Now he has lots more memories etc so does not have to fall back on past glories. Never-the-less he still remembers them.

You may be lucky, you may never become old and forgotten but others are less lucky than you. I know one old salt who felt as you did until he happened to meet, 25 years later, the man who pulled him from the Channel, naked, freezing, covered in oil, and just about to die. Now he remembers both survivors and the dead.

[exleckie]

Pontius Navigator.

I think that this whole debate is raising some good points and for me, is giving me an insight into the minds of many people.

Safety_Helmut is entitled to what he says just as much as I am entitled to say what i say. As far as siding with people, i thank you for your support, however I also support all views on this subject be it from whoever.

I certainly feel that you have an open mind as to what I have said on this thread.

The problem with forums is that you cannot intonate with your words, so they can be misconstrued. Such is life

:ugh:

[Cambridge Crash]

Pontius - your observation on what fathers did with medals could not be truer, and caused me to think about this (and shed a small tear). My father's father was an ANZAC in WWI, died when dad was very young. My father appeared to have little interest in his father's career and when his mother died, he let his mad sister sell off the collection of campaign medals and Discharge certificate for a few NZ dollars in a pawn brokers.

I was a young teenager at the time and was disappointed that the memorabilia was lost to the family. My father, who had been invalidated out of the Army due to an nasty accident in the Western Desert, never bothered to collect his service medals; indeed didn't talk about the war at all. The family always felt a bit cheated - there were two male role models in the family who had given so much (Grandfather died from the effect of injuries sustained in France; dad lost an eye and suffered from related injuries and died prematurely young, in part due to his war service), and we had nothing tangible to recall a formative part of their all-too-short lives.

In contrast, my son (6 1/2) is incredibly proud of my service and my modest collection of campaign medals, including the QGJM(!). Indeed, I had to gently stop him from wearing my minatures to school on National Book Day, when he dressed (by his own volition) as 'Braddock VC' from my 1969 Eagle Annual. I do not glamourise my unremarkable time in the Service (indeed, I am critical of many defence related issues), but I would never do anything that would deter his obvious pride. In due course, my collection of bits and bobs will go to him (along with a recently-issued set of my dad's uncollected campaign medals) and provide a reminder of the role of our family in the Services.

Sorry, a bit sentimental, but if I had received a Veterens medal, I doubt that I would have worn it, but in time my children would look at such a small momento with a pride that we feel uncomfortable displaying ourselves.

CC

[exleckie]

Safety_Helmut.

If you go back to the very first post on this thread, you will see that I am actually against the issue of a badge to service leavers.

Think about the Squip who died recently on the Herc (God rest his soul) and then think about the family he left behind.

Would a medal for General Service now seem fitting???( despite the fact he will receive the Telic medal posthumously)

Other than that, thanks for the debate,


Exleckie

[euringineer]

Come on Pontious an old sweat like you should know that its SLIEMA and the "boats" were based at Manoel Island with a Depot Ship.The Sweepers were at Msida,and the Med Fleet parked in Grand Harbour.FAA in Birzibuggia and the Crabs at Luqa,Safi and Ta Kali.Malta was awarded the George Cross for the whole country.Now that is what awarding medals is all about.

[Stax]

Quickie on this thread and MPA.

Last year, in the mess at MPA, meeting some defence civvy's on a visit. Army bloke stands up and asks, "when do I get my medal awarded" Civvy's look puzzled. Senior occifer escorting says "you don't get a medal". "Why not" says Army bod "I get them for all my other operational tours" "Ah" say's chief defence civvy "but this isn't an Operational tour" "So why are we here" comes the reply. Embarrased occifer, confused defence civvy's, guffaws from the audience, game, set and match!

[Pontius Navigator]

eurinengeer,
sorry for the spelling on Sliema. We went on to Manoel Island where they now make Phoenecian glass. What a scruffy yard now. When we went on a boat ride round the harbour however we approached the landing on the east (?) and up above was an old destroyer lattice mast.

All over Malta it was as if we had just left, left long enough for the dirt to move in, but 20 years on the Malts had still not taken over many of the barracks etc. Bighi was still abandoned. Tigne barracks were just being used possibly by squatters. Up near Gozo, can't remember the name of the beach, was an abandoned army camp.

Sad.

[bad livin']

In New Jersey visiting friends about 2 weeks ago, I was going into the cinema with my mate and her husband when the till attendant happened to notice my RN ID in the transparent part of my wallet. She then said all three of us could go in for free. I don't think we deserve any special treatment; we are all volunteers....but I found the shift in attitude toward service people compared to the UK an interesting one.

[Stan Bydike]

bad livin'

Yet again the Spams out do us. Military discount is a fact of life there. Hotel rooms are cheaper. Rounds of golf are cheaper. On holiday last year SWMBO had managed to exceed the available case space available by judicious purchasing. For the new suitcase, I went to the Samsonite store in the Prime Outlets Mall in Orlando and got an extra 20% off on production of my 1250.

Whereas the Forces Discount Brochure offers deals that are more expensive than those you can negotiate yourself!! Bit like Hire Cars, CHBS etc :E

[exleckie]

bad livin',

I think you have hit the nail on the head as far as recognition is concerned with the emphasis on attitudes.

The Americans really do show their collective appreciation to both serving and ex serving types, including Brits.

Perhaps it is the character of the British though, the stiff upper lip kind, which still gives out the "shut up and put up" culture amongst our fellow countrymen.

I still think that the public need educating about what the forces do, after all, the civvies know more about the workings of Tesco's than how the forces work. Mind you , that may not be a bad thing.



Exleckie

[brakedwell]

>Perhaps it is the character of the British though, the stiff upper lip kind, which still gives out the "shut up and put up" culture amongst our fellow countrymen.<

The days of the stiff upper lip are well and truly over. Witness all the flowers placed on roadside verges at the scenes of fatal road accidents. The mountains of floral tributes/soft toys and messages of condolence piled high after a violent crime.
I think the touchy, feely, tree huggers now typify the British character. Bulldogs are only for Crufts!

[exleckie]

Good comment Brakedwell.

Perhaps it is the character of the British though, the stiff upper lip kind, which still gives out the "shut up and put up" culture amongst our fellow countrymen.

Okay, that was my quote, but you have a brilliant point there, I didn't think of that. Do you think that it became like that because of the Princess Di thing where everyone threw flowers everywhere?

Perhaps you are right though, instead of "stiff upper lip" and "put up and shut up", has the nation gone soft in American proportions?????????

Sentiments are good, but there are so many who just get on with it.

Cracking point made though, BW has got me thinking, however, have I answered my own questions based upon the observations of others?

[Pontius Navigator]

Did anyone notice how many medals Smiler had? Wounded, cavalry charges, Cambrai and he had just THREE medals.

[exleckie]

Unfortunately, only in death does the public recognise such a great man.

Still, they probably won't understand what his service to others meant.

The man deserved more than a badge from a government who won't remember.

[Pontius Navigator]

exleckie, I had to lecture to a group of 14-18 yr olds about the cold war. I guessed there may be some difficulty so I created a time line to show where they fitted in in the 20th century.

Unsurprisingly they had never heard of the cold war and I didn't have time to see if they knew of any other miles stones. To their credit they did recognise a Badger, Bear, SA 2, SA 3 and the Vulcan and Victor. Sorry Valiant men, in service and out again too soon.

Their chance of reading the obituary and linking that old soldier to WW1 and cavalry charges was zero.

[C130 Techie]

There is a huge difference between those of us who genuinely care about our fellow human beings and the consequences of our actions on them and the 'touchy feely tree hugging brigade'.

Are all the people who laid wreaths, floral tributes and genuine messages of condolence outside the gates of RAF Lyneham following the crash of XV179 to be tarred with your brush.

If giving a damn about your fellow man, mourning their passing and showing your feeling publicly brings us towards a better more caring society then bring it on.:ok:

[exleckie]

C130 Techie,

I don't think Brakedwell was having a dig, (or me for that matter) , but merely pointing out a change in trends towards life events.

I don't think anyone can begrudge the laying of wreaths etc. In fact, we do it every armistice day.

However, I think that you will agree that the British psyche and persona has changed.

Exleckie

[dopeonarope]

When I PVR'd my exit date was 7 days before issue of Golden Jubilee Medal..... Didn't plan that well did I? :8

I was delighted to receive my Long Service and Good Conduct Medal via Royal Mail and Canada Post! I was amazed that 2 totally inept mail services could have got it to me in one peice! Thank you to Steve in PSF at Valley for not getting me to come back for it for a parade! :ok:

Badge for vetrans.... away with you all, what everyone needs is access to same discounts and deals as you got as a serviceman and a vetrans card giving you free prescriptions and medical treatment...... after all most injuries and illness are service related anyway!

Oh, and some respect from that idiot you re-elected as President (oops sorry Dictator, oops sorry I meant Prime Minister!) :mad: (Mind you look at the Prime Minister here in Canada..... Mr Sleaze and cash in pocket for Cronies!)

Hoist to Crew Winching over and OUT!!!

[exleckie]

what everyone needs is access to same discounts and deals as you got as a serviceman and a vetrans card giving you free prescriptions and medical treatment...... after all most injuries and illness are service related anyway!


If you so wish, you can subscribe to a veterans card,
Here (http://www.britishveterans.org.uk)


To apply for compensation under the War Pension Scheme, which may entitle you to free prescriptions if resident in the UK, priority treatment at an NHS hospital and a pro rata percentage payment for disability (one off or weekly allowance) War Pension (http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk)

[C130 Techie]

exleckie

The inference of Brakedwells post was that those who respond by overtly showing grief, sympathy or condolence are touchy feely tree huggers. He may not have meant that and I would welcome his comment.

There is a very big distinction between being a 'touchy feely tree hugger' and someone who generally cares about his fellow human beings.

The Bulldog spirit to which Brakedwell refers harks back to the values held by our fathers and grandfathers. It meant that they were patriotic and proud to be British. Indeed many thousands gave their lives for that belief.

Sadly those values have been eroded over recent years and I am sure that there are many reasons for this. One reason is the large increase in the ethnic groups who have settled in this country who have not taken up those 'British ' values. I am not a racist and don't want to get into that argument, however in this day and age it is often frowned upon to be overtly 'British' by the PC brigade who are frightened offending these ethnic groups many of whom are probably embarrassed by the fuss caused in their name.

At risk of being inflamatory, patriotism isn't the beer swilling football fans waving flags and singing in the streets of our european neighbours. It is the supporting of our 'British' traditions of which there are still many and displaying a solidarity when the nations' well being is under direct threat, something that we haven't experienced on a large scale for many years thankfully.

I for one am still proud to be British and support the retention of our traditions. I also believe that it is right to treat other people with the respect that you would expect them to show you. I am comfortable with expressions of public grief and sympathy where it is appropriate and I am definately NOT a touchy feely treehugger.

If we all always considered the consequences of our actions on others before acting and took responsibility for our actions the world would be a much better place.

[dopeonarope]

Thanks Exleckie,

I'll enjoy paying for that card with the War Pension I am awaiting to be awarded. I wonder if its tax deductable. The Veterans card should be given to you Gratis the day you hand in your F1250 or what ever its going to be called next.

Bit useless here in Canada, but might help for something.;)

A cloth badge Stating "I am a veteran" is not what is needed here.

Hoist to Crew Winching Over and OUT!!!!

[exleckie]

C130 Techie,

I think that you may have me all wrong,

I wasn't infering on the wreath laying, nor on the way that people conduct themselves in grief (XV 179 was one of my aircraft whilst still in) It was merely an observation that trends have changed and people are more open to showing grief.

Sadly those values have been eroded over recent years and I am sure that there are many reasons for this. One reason is the large increase in the ethnic groups who have settled in this country who have not taken up those 'British ' values. I am not a racist and don't want to get into that argument, however in this day and age it is often frowned upon to be overtly 'British' by the PC brigade who are frightened offending these ethnic groups many of whom are probably embarrassed by the fuss caused in their name.

Yes those values have been eroded and I think that our feelings are on the same wavelength. It is difficult to intonate on these threads so I am sorry if I caused you offence.

I don't think that I referred to you as a tree hugger, neither shall I.

After all, we are on the same side in all of this,

Regards,

Exleckie

dopeonarope, Have you applied for a war pension?????

[C130 Techie]

exleckie

My last post wasn't all aimed at you, much of it was general comment.

No offence taken and you're right we probably are on the same wavelength.

Incidentally I am currently a leckie so we may well have met if you served at Lyneham.

[Flypro]

34 years service and all I got was a Falkland medal (with bar, of course) that was well earned I promise. My American counterpart will be staggering under the weight of medals after that amount of service, AND as has already been mentioned often on this thread, as a veteran, he is treated a whole lot better than I.

Recently I had occasion to sort out something for a fancy dress party. I've aquired a red coat (ex some silver band uniform I think) and decided to go along as some sort of hybrid victorian soldier. To finish off the rig I needed a chestful of medals. My one would have looked silly and I couldn't bring myself to wear the large selection of medals inherited from my father (deceased) who fought his arse off for every one in WW2 - it felt disrespectful somehow, and though I know he would not have minded, the fact is that I do.

I then spent many hours on the internet trying to source fake medals. I thought Theatrical suppliers etc would sell them by the yard. Wrong. I could not find ANY.

Back to the drawing board. I decided to try to buy a few (of any nationality) via the internet. And now the surprise. We the (ex) military may not value our medals very highly, but the collectors/spotters do. If you don't want that tarnished old AFC or LSGC exchange it for beer vouchers!!!!!!





Or, you could always post it to me for my fancy dress!!:ok:

[exleckie]

C130 Techie

1998 to 2002

Exleckie

[C130 Techie]

exleckie

1989 - 2004

Our paths must have crossed.

[exleckie]

Probably have done herc mate,

Pm me pls



exleckie

[brakedwell]

C130 Techie
>The inference of Brakedwells post was that those who respond by overtly showing grief, sympathy or condolence are touchy feely tree huggers. He may not have meant that and I would welcome his comment<

I used TFTHuggers to illustrate the change in our national character, together with the PC brigade and Publiciity Seekers who appear on our TV screens after disasters occur. I might be cynical, but the piles of flowers seems to increase proportionally with the amount of media exposure. The outpouring of grief (mass hysteria?) after Princess Di's death was a case in point.
I agree with you that it is no longer fashionable to be patriotic, apart of course from supporting the English Soccer Team! As we mustn't upset the new Britons by rabbiting on about past achievements, I understand the school history curicullum has been altered to expunge the success the British Empire. Future generations will be left with nothiing to be proud of if the PC thought police get their way.
Finally I was stationed at Lyneham twice, in the fifties and sixties, and I feel a deep inner sympathy for those affected by the tragic destruction of XV179. Fortunately there were no aircraft losses during my seven years at Lyneham. Had there been I'm sure no flowers would have appeared outside the main gate, but the grief and sympathy of the local population would have been there, genuine and very personal.
I'm afraid the stiff upper lip is obsolete, all the public wants is a big sleeve to wear it's feelings on. Especially in front of a TV camera.

[exleckie]

Brakedwell,

go back a few posts and I think that you will be pleased that nobody disagrees.


Exleckie

[C130 Techie]

Brakedwell

I believe that we share a common view although its not always easy to articulate your point on a keyboard.

Many thanks for your response.

[EESDL]

If your're so desperate for recognition through the wearing of medals - may i suggest Castle Beer bottle tops and some silver foil.

Original thread was all about the fact that amongst all the other paperwork that you have to complete when you discharge - there, amongst the stack - is a form for your Veterans Badge.
seemingly cheapened by the lack of ceremony you may think?

There were plenty of campaigns during the Cold War so please don't bemoan such receipients - you just may not have been in the right/wrong theatre!!!!!

Are you telling me that the serevice folks who had the luxury of living at home eating fish pies or pickled cabbage would have rather given it all up for the sake of some tin that you had to pay for?

You are right in the change of mind shift - re tree-hugging etc, the yanks have been that way for a while now and their love of self-congratulation is apparent by their chest of medals - issued for crossing the Pond etc. Perhaps we sould go down that route, it would certainly solve recruitment shortfalls, all these Chavs joining for the Bling!

Only a personal view but go to an SH Sqn Dinner if you want to see some well-earned Bling.

Some posters (me included) do not value the Veterans Badge because it is not valued by those that issue it, the Government.

[jindabyne]

Following on from Airborne_Artist's earlier post re-British Legion. Membership of RAFA also goes a little way to remaining part of the 'RAF family' for those that wish to - and it comes with a neat little lapel pin.