Onur Air Turkey info? (Merged)

[Pander216]

Does anyone have some info about Onur Air in Turkey and the hiring of type rated A320 F/O's?

Any info is welcome!

Cheers.

[737oli]

Hello,

Are you sure that Onur Air have Airbus 320, I think they have A300 and Boeing 737. I'm sorry to tell you that but Turkey is most a 737 country Inter, Pegase, Kthy, Turkish Airlines,Sky....But it's true there are all looking for Captain's and FO's for the summer season, because Turkey is the DESTINATION for this summer.

Sorry Panzer,

I just check the site and you are true:( My advice is just to go there, and give your cv by your self. They certainly need you:D

[nopoal]

Hi,

This link will clarify some doubts.

Nice flights.

flaps 15% :cool:


http://www.onurair.com.tr/filo.asp

[Pander216]

Hai guys,

I know what planes the fleet consists of, but I was wondering if anyone knows anything about a need for A320 F/O's and what their requirements are...

[nopoal]

Hi,


You need to be TR and with hours on type. Recruitment through Brookfield Aviation.

Ciao

flaps 15% :cool:

[superced]

how many hours approxitmately do you need on type?


thanks

[Bokkenrijder]

Word of caution:

After Phuket Air, they might be next on the Dutch CAA´s hitlist, according to this (http://www.telegraaf.nl/reiskrant/reisnieuws/article20488981.ece) newspaper link.

[xetroV]

I don't have any insight in Onur's safety culture (or lack thereof), but things are not looking good:

http://www.nu.nl/news/521682/10/Opnieuw_zorgen_over_Onur_Air_na_motorproblemen.html

(Dutch news article.)

[MaxBlow]

It's about time I'd say. :mad:

[Earl]

Any translations available for us non speaking Dutch types.
Thanks

[Jhieminga]

Wednesday, 10 May 2005

SCHIPHOL - An aircraft of Turkish airline Onur air, which is being closely looked at by the Dutch Aviation Authorities (IVW), had to return to Schiphol late Tuesday night with engine problems. This was revealed by the IVW on Wednesday.

The aircraft encountered a malfunction in one of the engines shortly after take-off. The pilot returned immediately to the airport. All the passengers were unharmed.

An IVW inspector has been in contact with the airline throughout the evening, en in the end decided that the aircraft should stay on the ground. The engine needs a thorough inspection. The aircraft will not be allowed to leave until the IVW is satisfied that it is safe to do so.

Onur Air has been under close supervision by the IVW for a considerable period. The situation was getting better until last week, when the situation with the Turkish airline headed downwards again. Because of this the IVW is keeping a close eye on Onur Air. The Turkish authorities have been informed about the incident, and have been reprimanded for it. According to the IVW the airlines in Turkey are not being supervised properly.

The IVW is seriously concerned about small foreign low cost carriers like Onur air, Fly-air and Phuket air. The aircraft show too many defects and because of this similar airlines are being watched closely.

Only last week the IVW revoked the landing rights of the Thai airline Phuket Air. Several unacceptable shortcomings were found during various checks. The IVW took the far-reaching decision after consulting with the Thai aviation authorities. Until the Thai authorities are satisfied with the safety level at Phuket air, and have satisfied the IVW on this point, there shall be no flights by Phuket air to the Netherlands.


**** All errors in translation are mine! ****

[Dutchie]

There has been another Onur Air aborted take of in Alanya yesterday. (the one above was last week) The Dutch press is having a ball as they feel that this is something the public is interested in...

Martinair launched an advertising campaign called: "ask who you fly with" a few months ago to impress on people that they should ask travel agents who they fly with. Not a bad move as peoplee finally are getting the message, there are different quality operators out there.

[Earl]

Thanks for the translation guys.

[Earl]

About 2 or 3 hajs ago Onur air taxied into a light pole here in KSA.
The aircraft was a write off.
Also was around that they managed to touch down in Medinah with the gear up.
Remember walking through the hotel in Medina after it happened and a smart ass F/O with us told the Captain of Onur Air.
"Remember Captain Next Time Gear Down"
With all the Turkish crews listening this did not go over well.
Prior to this.
I spoke with one of their F/O asking could I get a jump seat with them to IST.
No English what so ever from him.
When I asked in my broken terrible Turkish he understood.
This thread does not suprise me.

[vunzke]

Anyone got any info on what actually happened to/with Onur Air in AMS last weekend?.... here in Turkey...... radio silence.... just interested in the (correct) details....

[CDB.A300]

1 year ago 2 fighters did intercept an MD88 over Austrian airspace due to 1hr RT silence, Normal ops according to Onur Air, as at each flight they go to war....

1 rejected TO after V1 at Eindoven in 2002. Oupsssss......

Steril cockpit at all ALT do not need any english skills or knowlege :)

This do not suprise me at all......

Info: The guy who made the gear up touch & Go in Medina is now Chief Flight GM of one of a new start-up in Turkey but do not know witch one...

:}

http://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=20030617-0&vnr=1&kind=C


Operating on flight 2264 to Maastricht and Dalaman, the MD-88 overran the runway at Groningen Airport, the Netherlands by 50m after rejecting the takeoff

correction about Overran

[Anti Skid On]

Enlighten us - what actually (or was supposed to have) happened?

[MaxBlow]

their incident record for the past year:

4 tailstrikes on landing on the 321 fleet

2 landing overruns (Billund 321/Istanbul A300)

why should we mention the MD88 t/o on the cntr tw in JED? nothing happend!

would i send my family on their planes?:ugh:

[jetstream7]

Onur Air not too popular in the Netherlands just now, and a close watch on them from the IVW

Subchartered Tristars used (one on Sierra Leone register, so not welcome in UK) being frowned upon, Dutch have a downer on the Tristar anyhow following issues with Portuguese registered aircraft last summer...

Another problem with a Onur Air A300 at AYT last weekend further compounds the issue the Dutch have...

From what I can tell, lots of media noise in the Netherlands about Onur air, thus blowing the issue up even more.

[MaxBlow]

'...The Turkish authorities have been informed about the incident, and have been reprimanded for it. According to the IVW the airlines in Turkey are not being supervised properly...'


...not being supervised? maybe it should say, 'NOT supervised at all!'

and btw. there's a price for everything!
:}

[Earl]

You have to try and understand the Turkish culture.
They will do anything and everything for money.
I know I have a home there and deal with them constantly.
My wife is also Turkish.
She is an ex flight attendant, now English teacher that flew for an airline there for 7 years that went out of business.
The last 6 months she was not paid at all and still continued to work with the promise of all back pay due.
Wont name the airline as she is going to court again next month with the others.
Another major Icelandic ACMI worked for this airline and as I am told this Turkish Airline still owes the ACMI company many hundreds of thousand dollars.
Yet the owner of the company owns several major resort hotels in Turkey.
She has fought through the courts to get her money for several years now as many others have Pilots and cabin.
Some how I dont think they will ever make it into the EU.
My in laws are some of the most honest finest people you would ever meet
Lots of good people there, just not in the business area.
But it does end on a positive note.
With this ACMI contract that went default I ended up with a good wife and we have a gorgeous blond hair blue eyed daughter that just celebrated her 2nd birthday.
I know the airlines lost a lot of money, but it was worth it, maybe not for them but priceless for me.
I would not trade them for anything.

[Dutchie]

Favored Turkish charter trick. Half way through the summer season stop paying eurocontrol. Comes autumn you are not allowed to fly anymore and go bankrupt. Next year start a new airline with the same people and different aircraft :ooh:

[Anti Skid On]

It is several years since I was a Pax on Onur (MD88)- LH seat outbound was ex Turkish Air Force, honed on Phantoms, good English, lots of military hours, not much transport jet time. RH seat was quite different - Eastern European (Ukranian or Belarus, can't remember) also ex military, and NO English. Was chatting on the company freq. to someone else, presumably in Russian.

Return leg two fairly newbies, 27 y.o. captain - both Turkish. Don't know if this reflects their current staffing.

[Fokker72]

HOOFDORP - De Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat trekt voor een maand de landingsrechten in van het Turkse Onur Air naar aanleiding van een nieuw incident op dinsdag 10 mei. Het vliegverbod is met onmiddellijke ingang van kracht geworden. Dinsdag 10 mei ontstond een probleem met het zogenoemde straalomkeersysteem van een Airbus 300 op de startbaan van het vliegveld van Antalya.

De afgelopen tijd heeft een reeks van incidenten plaatsgevonden. De Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat heeft daarop onlangs een laatste waarschuwing gegeven aan de Turkse luchtvaartmaatschappij. Het nieuwe incident is aanleiding voor het vliegverbod.

Het verbod geldt vooralsnog tot zondag 12 juni 12.00 uur. In deze periode moet Onur Air aantonen structurele verbeteringen te hebben doorgevoerd om de veiligheid te garanderen.

Op dit moment (donderdag 12 mei, 11.45 uur) zijn nog twee toestellen van Onur Air onderweg naar Maastricht. Zij mogen hun vlucht afmaken en landen op de luchthaven Maastricht Aachen Airport.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Translation:

Dutch Caa (IVW) has suspended the landing richts of Turkish airline Onur Air for one month.
Tuesday may 10th An Onur Air Airbus 300 had troubles with their thrust reversers after landing at Antalya.
The past weeks there have been several incidents involving Onur Air aircraft. IVW gave them a last warning last week. The lastest incident resulted in the withdrewal of the landing rights for one mont with immediate effect.

The suspension will last till sunday june 12th 12.00 hours.
During this period Onur Air will have to prove to IVW that they have made structural changes to assure the safety of passengers.

At this moment (May 12th 11.45 a.m.) two Onur Air flights are still on their way to Maastricht Aachen Airport. They will be allowed to finish their flight and land at their destination.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Finally IVW takes a stand against this airline.
I feel sorry for the passengers, but they had take action!

[Engineer]

Appears from a passenger point of view it is an airline (http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/onur.htm) not to fly with :}

[suppie]

Problem is not only the technical status of the a/c's but several issues like not the proper manuals on board, no manual loadsheets on board, not enough safety cards on board, wrong pax weights used for weight and balance so they can take all pas with them etc etc

[Avman]

Lon, they actually departed MST well before 1200. I think it meant at their final destination.

[MaxBlow]

Same decision in Germany. Banned for min. 1 month. Most likely for the same reasons.
I believe that this will be the final countdown for Onur but others will pick up their business rather soon.:confused:

[vdive]

Switzerland just announced the ban as well a few hrs ago.

[jmc757]

Apparently the Turkish Authorities are threatening to deny landing permission to any 'replacement' Onur Air flights...?

[Stratocaster]

Yeah, well, the Egyptians also did that in the wake of the Flash Airlines-hysteria in Europe a year ago. Guess who folded ? Bingo, Europe. (sigh)
:hmm:

Heard that Onur Air wants to sue all three countries for messing up with its cash cows. They obviously don't seem afraid of looking stupid and arrogant.

[Bokkenrijder]

Well, some tour operators are now threatening to sue Onur Air for the cost of re-booking pax with other companies.

[Diabolo]

Now France & Switzerland are rejecting Onur as well..

[as737700]

I have a feeling that Onur Air's days are numbered.

All of these bans from countries really doesn't help an airline.

[flyingoli]

It's true that Onur Air is probably not the best airlines and the most secure in the world, but everybody know that since long time, in example you see directly the desk of Onur in an airport because there is no queue, there is a big circle with 300 passengers and a lot of bagages.:bored:
I mean that seems to me really "bizare" that the deutch move only now, just in the begining of the summer season(?To let no chance to Onur to fix all the problems?). We all know that Turkey is the destination of the year and I think that everybody want a part of the cake...

[BlueVolta]

Turkey is THE destination for summer 2005: affordable prices, good hotels, good weather, stable political situation.
The problem is not Onur, they are not responsible for the queue in AMS, its the dutch airport whixh is not managed properly.
Is it know that somebody discovers that Turkish pilot are not properly trained? Humm all this looks political.
Look at Ryanair, they shall be also banned for security...

[catchup]

Come on BlueVolta, that's not fair.

Ryanair has a much greater fleet than onur, but not their numerous number of incidents.

regards

[flyingoli]

Ok so Blue Volta, what do you mean by that, are you trying to protect Onur Air? Perhaps yourself you are flying in Turkey?
I think that the difference with Ryanair is that they didn't had an accident before.

[BlueVolta]

I don't say you can exactly compare FR and Onur, but my felling is that they are on the margin of safety.....
In Turkey you have some good operators and some that are less, Onur is maybe pulling too much on the rope, but if you want cheap flights, the safety is the first thing to be jeopardised (so FR...)

But banning Onur, right before the summer season which according to reservation, Champions league final, first F1 grand prix, looks for me as some carriers want a bigger piece of this decious cake, ie Baklava...

Onur is on the margin for years

[flyingoli]

Blue volta, you are true that if you take Sky or Corendon, it's an other level of security. But it's seems that there is still a big problem with the formation of the pilots, especially with english. That's why there is a lot of Turkish Company allowing only one turkish pilot by crew, the other one must be a foreigner and especially an european.

[EDDNHopper]

To let no chance to Onur to fix all the problems

No chance to fix problems? You must be kidding - they have been warned several times, see this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172308&highlight=onur)!

[BlueVolta]

OK flyingoli, but why for years Onur was tolerated? They have been warned to fix things, but it has been for years and no one told anything....

I do not know sky or corendon, but Pegasus looks OK....

Having a qualified crew member, its like in Korean, where FAA impounded to have a "European" crew member after the Stansted crash, this is a good idea. But is this european guy going also to fix the A/C

:confused: ;)

And I may insist but some FR aircraft have seen the grass from very close, maybe its because the low houred pilots where more used to grass rwy than tarmac one's:ugh:

[flyingoli]

Yes EDDN,

You are true, but I mean that if they had stop the flight in january, Onur had probaly fixed all the problems before summer.
But now they have no time, you know it's like a kid, if you say I will to him, he understand ok there is no rush I can do it several times again before the sanction. What I mean is that the deutch DGAC know that Onur is a bad kid's.

You are true Blue Volta,

There is some great guy\'s and companies in Turkey, even if sometimes I don\'t understand everythings.

You are true also about Fr, but you know sometimes the 2 pilots in the cockpit don\'t even see the grass, because they are to occupied to complain about the working conditions in Fr:D No Behind the jokes there is a big security problem.

[BlueVolta]

And finally what will happen?

Who will carry all the passengers? An other turkish carrier? An EU carrier?

It will be a mess for the week end, and then there will be a "new" airline, lets say NUR AIR or ONU AIR, a new AOC, some white paint and here we go...:}

[flyingoli]

Blue Volta let's say something like Ryanon Air.;)

[foreverboeing]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/ Madam,

After an inappropriate action, Onur Air has been subject to a rather unfortunate and unfair treatment by Dutch Air and Sea Transport Authority - Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat and our flights to Netherlands are stopped for one month as of yesterday. Onur Air has been holding 50 percent of whole package holiday market in Netherlands as result of its long time satisfactory performance and commercial stability. We have a well-earned reputation in Netherlands as proven by millions of travallers and nearly all Dutch tourism organisations chosen us. The reason of the ban was reported to be the result of a technical problem on one of Onur Air's aircraft last week in Amsterdam, but statistically, it is reported that one airline has a technical delay everyday in Netherlands. In this case dozens of airlines should be stopped operating to Netherlands every month. Unfortunately, German DGCA has followingly stopped our operation to Germany without any event, just as a result of Netherlands's decision. We currently fly to 73 airports in Europe with our 25 aircraft since 14 years now. Our highest achievement awards from Airbus, Boeing and many tour-operators have been acknowledged by all authorities. We believe we have right to be treated equally and fairly with all other airlines in Europe under EASA regulations Yours Sincerely, Hamit Cankut Bagana President Onur Air Turkey


Yours Sincerely,

Hamit Cankut Bagana
President Onur Air
Turkey

note:copied from onur air web page yesterday,but now that letter became turkish. www.onurair.com.tr
For your info, the ban now also extends to Switzerland and France other than holland and germany

By the way like it is said at their letter that they are flying for last 14 years and at the last winter season they were safe for holland and one of a sudden before summer high season holland figured out that they are not safe anymore!!It doesn\'t smell that good....

[MaxBlow]

I worked there one summer and absolutley agree that they've to take that break to fix the acfts. If they don't do it now there'll be no time during the peak season. The reason I quit was mx - and senior mngmt capts. blaming you for not taking sick acft.

I blame the management (commercial & flt.ops) and the guys who can't say NO!

I agree that the timing is a bit unfair and they loose quite a bit of revenue, would be sad to see them disapear - but some will only learn the hard way. It's not that they've not been warned many times before and it came out of the blue.
:mad:

[lgtjanssen]

Heard that Onur Air wants to sue all three countries for messing up with its cash cows. They obviously don't seem afraid of looking stupid and arrogant.

They already did (next Tuesday there will be a hearing and soon thereafer a ruling).

Who will carry all the passengers? An other turkish carrier? An EU carrier?

Given that the Dutch airlines (apart from the new airline MagicBlue) have not much spare capacity (Martinair had to hire a 747 to get the pax back to AMS) they won't benifit most. Moreover as the Dutch touroperators have another problem called Phuket Air which is still banned from The Netherlands.

Therefore most will go to Turkish airlines (will be an opportunity for World Focus, Pegagus and MNG). However Flyair will probably not benifit from Onur's demise as they're the next target (they received a final warning fro m the IVW).

[Earl]

On CNN now Onur Air claims their aircraft are safe and intends to fight with the several Europeon countries concerning the landing rights.
I am sure that everything is well documented against this company.
Instead of admitting to the problem and stating they will make corrective actions, they would rather argue.
Some how I think this company is finished.
They cant see the forest because of the trees!

[catchup]

Angeblich wiederholt defekte Triebwerke bei Onur Air

Hamburg (AFP) - An den Maschinen der mit Flugverboten in mehreren Ländern belegten türkischen Fluglinie Onur Air sind angeblich in den vergangenen Wochen wiederholt defekte Triebwerke und abgefahrene Reifen festgestellt worden. Außerdem hätten mitzuführende Versicherungspolicen gefehlt, berichtete die "Bild am Sonntag" unter Berufung auf niederländische Luftfahrtkreise. Einige Piloten hätten ihre Fluglizenzen nicht mit im Cockpit gehabt.

Onur Air-Chef Cankut Bagana habe in seinen bisherigen Stellungnahmen zum Entzug der Flugrechte nicht die Wahrheit gesagt, berichtete das Blatt. So sei die Fluggesellschaft, anders als behauptet, in den letzten 14 Jahren nicht unfallfrei geflogen. Am 17. Juni 2002 schoss demnach eine Maschine beim Start in Groningen (Niederlande) über die Startbahn hinaus, alle 141 Passagiere mussten über Notrutschen evakuiert werden.

Onur Air habe außerdem nicht, wie von der Fluggesellschaft behauptet, ausschließlich eigene Maschinen im Einsatz, berichtete die Zeitung unter Berufung auf Luftfahrtexperten. Die Airline chartere regelmäßig hinzu, oftmals in Asien. So seien am Wochenende vor Pfingsten nicht nur drei Maschinen der portugiesischen Airlines EuroAtlantik und LuzAir im Einsatz gewesen, sondern auch ein Flugzeug der Skygate International aus Jordanien. Zur Onur-Flotte gehöre außerdem ein Airbus, der bis November 2002 für die kirgisische Fluggesellschaft "Kyrgyz International" im Einsatz war.

http://de.news.yahoo.com/050515/286/4jks1.html

[EC-YKA]

"Bild" and "Bild am Sonntag" got a court order some years ago denying them to call themselves "Zeitung" (news paper), because of the poor reliability of the facts published. That`s not a good source for yahoo to quote. :(

[LLuke]

So tomorrow Onur will meet with the Dutch CAA. Hopefully somebody will be able to tell what happened. Strange case since everybody seems very certain of its case:
http://www.onurair.nl/site/default.htm

As far as I am concerned:
If they were/are unsafe I am most pleased they are banned and I blame the Turkish CAA for not controlling 'their' airliners. Very poor for a country that appears to be so proud and eager. Guess other Turkish airliners should be investigated as well then?

If it is only about 'paperwork' a ban looks rather overdone to me. Why not a fine or sth like that? Guess the ban would be lifted, and without justification a courtcase to claim lost profit is very likely, in addition to the embarrasment for this -as it would turn out- blunder of the Dutch CAA.

Met the Dutch CAA 2 times, once during inspection of a flight (cheap way to travel for them?), once during inspection in simulator (observing new company procedures). Altough they were friendly, we didn't get any feedback about their findings. Abroad, only had an inspection once, BRS or CWL, just a check of papers during turn around. All this in a period of 10 years, hard to believe one could end up with problems from an inspection...

[edited typo 2x]

[Diabolo]

Looks like Onur found the solutions to circumnavigate this problems..... Charleroi Belgium !

Very smart :)

[flyingoli]

It's funny to see that now FR and Onur use the same airport. I hope there will be no problems on the tarmac or during approaches. If Onur comes in Charleroi with A300, it must be funny in the terminal.

[LLuke]

Small update:
-First meeting between Dutch and Turkish CAA and Onur Air unconclusive.
Onur Air walked angry away. During 'mutual' press conference the Turkish-CAA representative thought everything would get solved soon. Dutch representative did not see any progress.
-Onur Air goes to court and claims Dutch CAA has not proven Onu is unsafe, so a ban is not justified.

Next Wednesday, Dutch CAA goes to Istanbul. Together with Turkish a ramp inspection of Onur a/c will be done.

For those interested, see reply 68:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2111445/
Some background info about SAFA (safety assessment foreign aircraft):
www.jaa.nl/safa/safa.html

[flyingoli]

Yesterday evening I was really schocked. I was watching the news on a big french channel, then comes a subject about Onur, what was my suprise when we seen the call center of Onur, the image was fix on a young beautiful lady with a "tchador"... As we know that in Turkey since Ataturk, there is less working girl with "tchador" than in France or in England! And when we know that in France the "tchador" is a big problem. I was just asking myself wat are the media trying to do?
We will see soon on televison, the pilots of Onur, wearing a Djelaba. Please stop this joke...

[MaxBlow]

If you use Belgium to transport your pax than one should expect to send 'perfect airplanes' only after all that happend in the last couple of weeks. How comes that the inspectors find things again in Belgium resulting in a ten day ban ???

Don't get it! Is that complete ignorance by the airline or are the inspectors just getting very pinky here and just try to find things to follow the other countries example?


:confused:

[Diabolo]

confirm Onur is banned from Belgium as well?

[MaxBlow]

according to a newspaper the ban in Belgium is for ten days. a bit unclear if only the two inspected airplanes are banned or the complete fleet.

i hope that the full A300 emergency (incl. fuel dump) in TLV two days ago wasn't onur as well.

a friend in CPH told me that Danmark might be next to ban them as one airplane is grounded in CPH for a couple of days now.

things sure look fairly bad. but hey - they've so much cash reserve from the past hadj operations that the indicated 10mio usd loss so far are only peanuts not worth mentioning.

suggest they repaint the ship if they want to recover and continue.